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In the Name of God بسم الله
Reiki

Is Islam for Believers or for the Faithful? Is Islam a Religion or a Spiritual Quest?

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11 hours ago, yashia said:

We will see who is ruined on the Day of Judgement. And this goes on anyone who wants to put his opinion on top of religion and promote it over religion.

 

11 hours ago, yashia said:

People like you are not receptive to truth. People like you never learn

 

 all these people that think they are something to do this today when they or anyone who does this are nothing.

 

 Maybe if I spoke to cows it will be better  

 

39 minutes ago, yashia said:

I am not going to respond to you or the likes of you anymore. In your grave you will wish you were receptive to truth, sense and evidence. May Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) deal with you and the likes of you (those who like to provoke others and twist things to suit their own arrogant self)!

اللهم صل على محمد وال محمد

 

26 minutes ago, yashia said:

You are foul and hideous May Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) degrade you for your provocations and may you get what you deserve in your face. May Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) degrade you!

 

سبحان الله 

This is the 'quality content' the brother was referring to the other day. Lol 

I have two suggestions: 

1- Don't quote the sacred words of Allah Ta'ala and his chosen (عليه السلام) whilst spewing your hate.

2- Don't end your hateful, provocative and rude posts with Salawat because the Baraka and true meaning of Salawat has nothing to do with your behaviour. 

Edited by Moalfas
Typo

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On 1/25/2020 at 6:56 AM, yashia said:

WAllah you keep justifying my point more. If that's what you want. May Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) curse you.

اللهم صل على محمد وال محمد

I will be silent. But if you want me to reply, I will reply with a better reply than you. I advise you keep silent after this.

@yashia, you really need to work on yourself brother. The way you're responding from the very beginning on this thread, is regretful indeed. 

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Please maintain Peace on my thread because a person who is trying to offend can only offend someone if the person on the receiving end takes the offence. I cannot agree with @yashia on many points but he may be a very good human being who is simply trying to understand the ways of Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) just as we are. Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) is the all-pervasive, al-Ahad, al-Wahid, and it is not possible to understand his ways and experience him with this human intellect. He is beyond logic. He is the creator of logic.

Please Understand that it is very natural for anyone to get irritated in His way for if the way would have been so easy, would not there have been more than just a few who had achieved Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى)? Because the person has not yet experienced Him but has maintained a set of believes anyway, may find it difficult to Accept that Allah(سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) is in everyone and everything and nothing happens without HIS will.

   

1 hour ago, yashia said:

If that's what you want. May Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) curse you.

My friend, my beloved brother @yashia, May Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) bless you with Eternal Love and Grace.

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13 hours ago, Cool said:

Salam,

The OP involved itself in semantics by stating what faith actually is and has translated an Arabic root word for emaan as well as meanings of what is meant by "to believe"

So what is this "belief" or "believe" in Arabic? The scholars, the dictionaries uses faith, belief for the single Arabic word Emaan. 

I am not discouraging @Reiki, rather motivating him to do more research. It was a good attempt and there always exist chances of betterment and perfection in our writings/essays and in our thoughts.

 

The word الموهوم (al-mwhwm) derives itself from waw-ha-meem which is wahima. The roots waw-ha-meem means "to cunjecture", "to speculate", "to presume", "to guess", "to have false hope (to ween)" and so on. This word is what goes in accordance with "belief."

Further, see the following reply:

 

On 1/24/2020 at 4:45 PM, Reiki said:

 

يا اميرالمؤمنين ما الحقيقة

فقال ما لك والحقيقة

فقال او لست صاحب سرّك

قال بلى ولكن يرشح عليك ما يطفح منى

فقال ما الحقيقة

كشف سبحات الجلال من غير اشارة

فقال زدنى بيانا

محو الموهوم و صحو المعلوم

فقال زدنى بيانا

قال هتك الستر لغلبة السرّ

فقال زدنى بيانا

قال جذب الاحدية  لصفة التوحيد

فقال زدنى بيانا

نورٌ اشرق من صبح الازل فيلوح على هياكل التوحيد آثاره

فقال زدنى بيانا

فاطف السراج فقد طلع الصبح

- Kalimāt maknūnah min 'ulum ahl al-hikma wa'l-ma 'rifa /wa aqwalihim by al-Kāshānī (1386/2007, §11)

In the above lines you see that upon being asked about reality, Hazrat Ali (SA), has replied to Kumayl, "محو الموهوم و صحو المعلوم"
This is transliterated as "mahw al-mawhwm wa ṣaḥw al-ma`lum." 
Mahw = dispell, remove, clear.
al-Mawhwm = speculation, conjecture, presumption, guess (all pointing towards one meaning => belief)
sahw = realize
al-ma`lum = awareness, experience, wisdom (roots being ayn-lam-meem)
 

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2 hours ago, Reiki said:

الموهوم (al-mwhwm) derives itself from waw-ha-meem which is wahima. The roots waw-ha-meem means "to cunjecture", "to speculate", "to presume", "to guess", "to have false hope (to ween)" and so on. This word is what goes in accordance with "belief."

Quote

It is because faith is something that happens along the spiritual path. It is not something that is forced upon your mind. Belief is brainwashing; faith is a realization through experience. Faith is about recognizing that there is an intelligence in the universe that is beyond our limited logic, and seeking ways to access that. 

I have quoted a part from your OP here too. 

First of all, I can understand the difference between faith & belief (in English language).

Quote

Faith and belief are two sides of the same coin. There are at least four Greek words for faith, and the one most commonly used is pisteuo, which means persuasion. The root word is peitho, which means to convince.

The word belief in Greek is pistis, which means confidence or trust. In essence, the words are one and the same. When people have faith or a belief, it simply means they are convinced by the facts. We all have faith in some form or another. Either we are convinced by the facts of life, the facts of our background, education or even the facts about what we know about God.

I am not convinced that وھم (waw-ha-meem) could mean belief. وھم is a delusion while belief is not. 

Secondly, I would like to present before you few verses from Qur'an so that can refine or maybe re-define the meaning of "faith" (emaan).ۗۗ

ۗوَالَّذِينَآمَنُوا بِالْبَاطِلِ وَكَفَرُوا بِاللَّهِ أُولَٰئِكَ هُمُ الْخَاسِرُونَ

“And as for those who believe in falsehood  and disbelieve in Allah – for these people is the greatest loss.”( The Holy Qur'an, Surah al- Ankabut, 29:52)

I would advise you to just look at the Arabic text first. What does the phrase "aamanu bil batil" would mean? Even if one has false beliefs, his “Islam” will not fall at risk – by this I mean that he is a marginal Muslim and he will not leave his apparent state of submission to Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى). However, if one has “Iman” and starts to entertain false beliefs or is corrupted by deviant thoughts, his ‘Iman’ will drag him to complete disbelief (Kufr) and loss in this world and more importantly - the next world.

Perhaps this is the reason Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) has mentioned this too:

الَّذِينَ آمَنُوا وَلَمْ يَلْبِسُوا إِيمَانَهُمْ بِظُلْمٍ أُولَٰئِكَ لَهُمُ الْأَمْنُ وَهُمْ مُهْتَدُونَ

“Those who believe (have Iman) and do not mix up their faith with iniquity, those are they who shall have the security (in this world and the next) and they are those who go aright.” (The Holy Qur'an, Surah al-Aa’raaf, 7:27)

So tell me is Islam for those "faithful" who used to believe in falsehood and who contaminate their faith with iniquity? 

And more important is the question, What would be the starting point for anyone? A person first need to enter into the world, the journey of the stages of his emaan will start afterwards. Or he first need to produce faith in himself? 

Wassalam

Edited by Cool

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On 1/24/2020 at 6:37 PM, Reiki said:

I agree that faith may be weaker than belief initially because it is not as strong as just blatant following but it is understanding and then trusting. Well!

One just can't trust anything if it can't belief. How one could possibly trust anything if it doesn't even belief anything? If you trust something, then there must be some degree of risk involved, which is the result of believing.

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15 hours ago, yashia said:

Don't get me started on how much the bible has changed to the extent where it has the audacity to say that God Almighty (Astaghfirullah) made children eat human faeces baked in other things in chapter Malachi!

I have a feeling you're a self starter. Please don't think your opinion is any better than a Southern Baptist. You may have more teeth. Let me take you down to the great State of Arkansas, I'll introduce you to...you, and a few. You think you have the truth, and are willing to intimidate, or force if possible, someone to respect you as some kinda leader or they can go to hell and given opportunity you may even hurry their trip. Do your God a favour, right?  Imam wannabe, or a warrior? Is your AK47 plastic or metal? Did you text this from the front lines, or your mom's computer next to a kleenex box?

So, seeing you're nothing more than a bunch of words typed by an angry kid, do you really have any input or are you just here to start something? Don't get me started on religion.

How's that for condescending.

Edited by Son of Placid

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At @Son of Placid,

First of all, where is my apologies for mis-quoting me?

I am still expecting one.

---------------

MartyS, mostly posts about scriptures, sincerely and happy, she will be if she gets to convert someone in this forum.

On the other hand, what you are doing, I have no clue! 

 

This post of yours deserves a warning or a ban. Simple as that! 

Here it is:

4 hours ago, Son of Placid said:

I have a feeling you're a self starter. Please don't think your opinion is any better than a Southern Baptist. You may have more teeth. Let me take you down to the great State of Arkansas, I'll introduce you to...you, and a few. You think you have the truth, and are willing to intimidate, or force if possible, someone to respect you as some kinda leader or they can go to hell and given opportunity you may even hurry their trip. Do your God a favour, right?  Imam wannabe, or a warrior? Is your AK47 plastic or metal? Did you text this from the front lines, or your mom's computer next to a kleenex box?

So, seeing you're nothing more than a bunch of words typed by an angry kid, do you really have any input or are you just here to start something? Don't get me started on religion.

How's that for condescending.

 

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On 1/26/2020 at 12:00 AM, ShiaMahamed said:

First of all, where is my apologies for mis-quoting me?

I see what happened there now. I took yashia's quote from your post. Your post was "well said" so you were very much in agreement until it looked like it came from you. My apologies if that bothered you. Your school chum now stands alone.

If condescension is part of your religion then be ready for a little give and take. 

Considering my last post was not at all directed at you, what part of it hit home?

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6 hours ago, ShiaMahamed said:

At @Son of Placid

I said, "Well said", to a well-written (overall) post.

You picked a specific paragraph/phrase...out of context and ran with it.

Yet, you are asking me, "What part of it hit home?"

You said "well said" because you agreed, or you just like his style of writing? Willing to twist your own words? This isn't an impeachment.

I picked a specific phrase that was it's own context, and as you know, that's not what I was asking if hit home.  Read it again if you missed it.

If condescension is also part of your religion, as I take it "well said" means, it bothers others more than it does me, but others worthy of respect and you don't care to, that bothers me.

 

7 hours ago, ShiaMahamed said:

You still deserve a warning, at least!

I've never had a warning for telling someone to get off their high horse.

This is actually an interesting thread if it wasn't for all the static.

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On 1/24/2020 at 11:37 AM, Reiki said:

But please elucidate on the fact that faith is weaker than belief?:cuddle:

In my views: Faith can either be gained or lost by experiencing changes in oneself during a spiritual transformation unlike belief which is rigid and forced upon someone. So, yes. I agree that faith may be weaker than belief initially because it is not as strong as just blatant following but it is understanding and then trusting. Well!

You are not using the terms properly.

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Quote

I love you Christians on here, you guys are the last few strands of Christians left in the world who sincerely are trying to live up to the example of Jesus the good stuff in the bible, and boy you guys have it hard these days cause amongst your groups there is so much diversity huge leaps of diversity and interpretation and confusion and difference amognst your communities , and to see past all that and see the true basic teachings of Jesus and to hold onto it must be really hard and difficult and im sure often you are on the brink of giving up and just frustarted and confused and annoyed and you just feel like walking away from it all but you hold on cause you believe you think about your afterlife you hope for Jesus return you feel the world is in a worst state and you expect the rapture and hope it happens soon before things go any worse , you must feel so lonely amongst your people despite that there is millions of you and you see your leaders stacking large amounts of cash and all that comes with it , it must be so hard from your perspective cause you guys have so much differences amongst even your neighbours in your communities

keep holding on the end is near and hopefully we all see Jesus return soon cause we are waiting his return too and straighten out all this insanity

That's nice to hear although we aren't the last strands. There are many in diverse groups who have managed to lift their head above the fog of dogma. Huge diversity in Christianity, huge diversity in Islam. I've learned from both. Mostly to avoid jumping on the bandwagon of any because, from the bandwagon, you can't really tell when it crosses the path God has set out for you. I could care less what evangelists say or do. They scar the reputation of all Christian groups, while I remain untouched.

That's why I would say, apart from religion, (which only serves to separate the believers), it's a spiritual quest. God is a very personal God and He guides those who listen, and submit. I remember the words of the dear late Pappa Kass, (originally from Iran, Chaplin of a Montreal rescue mission), "Bring the people to God, let them decide how to worship". 

As for my level of faith, I'm one of the unfortunates that had to be dealt with in no uncertain terms, therefore I don't rely on faith, I know enough to have lost the blessings that come with faith. I know I have lost blessings because of it but I ask nothing more than to be a doorman in Heaven. I have been blessed in the way that many things I needed but could have never afforded came to me. The only times I am frustrated is when I realize I'm not in the right frame of mind to recognize how God is working a situation.  

The teachings of Jesus are easy to find, https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Matthew+5-7&version=KJV  

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On 1/16/2020 at 4:55 PM, Reiki said:

For me, Islam is not a Religion but a Way of Life and a Spiritual Quest and I am not a believer but indeed faithful to Islam. What are your views?

You either believe or you do not. While some pretend to believe (aka hypocrites). There is no fourth kind.

The rest is all smoke.

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On 1/27/2020 at 9:28 PM, Muhammed Ali said:

You are not using the terms properly.

salam,

what is it that is put to the test by Allah(سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى)after having proclaimed belief?

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