Is Islam for Believers or for the Faithful? Is Islam a Religion or a Spiritual Quest?

[Reiki]

Personally I think there are so many problems with being a believer. When you say “I believe” you are fundamentally saying, “I am unwilling to admit that I do not know”. The seeker is willing to admit he doesn’t know! The believer is unwilling to make this admission. He draws conclusions about what is not yet within his experience. A believer may make assumptions about the day of the judgement!

Further, the moment you believe something, you are in conflict with the opposing belief. You can postpone it with moderate talk. But conflict is inevitable. Isn't it that Abu Darda reported:

Quote

The Messenger of Allah (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم), said, “Shall I not tell you of what is better in degree than extra fasting, prayer, and charity?” They said, “Of course!” The Prophet said, “Reconciliation between people. Verily, corrupted relations between people is the razor.”

Did Imam Ali (عليه السلام) not affirm in his last will,

Quote

" I heard your grandfather, peace be upon him, say: 'Islah is more worthy than all prayers and all fasting.' "

I do not see how one can attain ultimate bliss by believing in something that they do not know, by not having the courage nor commitment to seek what is true and just by wanting to assume something. The fundamental human nature is to seek, isn't it how we grow?

But then why have faith in something?

Well, personally, belief is a big no-no to me but faith is a big yes-yes! It is because faith is something that happens along the spiritual path. It is not something that is forced upon your mind. Belief is brainwashing; faith is a realization through experience. Faith is about recognizing that there is an intelligence in the universe that is beyond our limited logic, and seeking ways to access that. But right now, unfortunately, faith has been misunderstood to mean rigid dogma. 

How is Belief different from Faith?

Even further, the word mistranslated into English as believer has the roots, hamza-meem-nun, meaning to have faith. Of course, "belief" is a synonym to "faith" in English, but languages like Arabic are fundamentally different from languages like English. Arabic is a language where a single word is capable of a multitude of meanings while English is a language where different words can have an exact same meaning! It must be understood that Classical Arabic is too accurately grammatized and too literal. However, the language was still very young at the time the Qur'an Sharif was written. The language of the sacred text carries no such smartness or cleverness as its Classical form because its propounder, the Prophet (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم), was himself just too simple. That being said, with very less grammar and much sense of colloquialism there were naturally many different meanings of a single word but even so, inter-related. It is only the gift of the so-called 19th century western philosophers and translators that the essence of spiritual processes were corrupted.

Now, I understand why Benjamin Franklin had said, "Give me twenty-six lead soldiers and I will conquer the world." Indeed, Edward Bulwer-Lytton agreed that "The pen is mightier than the sword." Today, along with the so called religious scholars of their own religion, the English translators since 17th century have harmed much of the philosophies of the world. English is a widespread language that has emerged out of the need to communicate and it has the least vocabulary to become a translated target-language. It lacks the vast memory and moods found in languages like Arabic. English is a language for materialistic purposes only!

What Qur'an has to say about Islam?

Qur'an itself refers to Islam as Din -

Quote

“Inna ad-Dīna `Inda Allāhi Al-'Islām” [Qur'an 3:19]

While the word "religion" would again connect Islam with a certain form of theism, Din is an Arabic word with its root being d-y-n, meaning ‘to dissolve.’ Thus, the Prophet (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم) himself is telling that Islam has nothing to do with any belief-system, rather it is about submission to the whole of the creation and becoming one with it and obviously it needs faith to walk such a truthful path and dissolve. This is why Allah has the name Al-Ahad - The Unifier. 

For me, Islam is not a Religion but a Way of Life and a Spiritual Quest and I am not a believer but indeed faithful to Islam. What are your views?

[funklebits]

Salaam Alikuem @Reiki,

Thank you very much for this post and honestly I have nothing to add, but my admiration and agreeance.

On 1/16/2020 at 3:55 AM, Reiki said:

For me, Islam is not a Religion but a Way of Life and a Spiritual Quest and I am not a believer but indeed faithful to Islam.

This was very well put.

[funklebits]

@yashia , is this the type of thread you were hoping would be posted more often?

Ref;

 

[eThErEaL]

finally.

[Muhammed Ali]

On 1/16/2020 at 11:55 AM, Reiki said:

Of course, "belief" is a synonym to "faith" in English

No it isn't. Especially in the context of religion. Faith is weaker than belief.

[yashia]

أعوذُ بِٱللَّهِ مِنَ ٱلشَّيۡطَٰنِ ٱلرَّجِيمِ

I would like to say first and foremost @funklebits that in regards to my other post and other posts I make or comments, I am not wanting to please the creation my only concern is that The Creator (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) is pleased.

Secondly @Reiki and anyone else, when we talk about religion we should use our opinion less and should use the fact of Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى). Neither should we raise our voice above the Qur'an Al-Kareem or the Ahlul Bayt (As):

بِسْمِ اللهِ الرَّحْمَنِ الرَّحِيْم

يَا أَيُّهَا الَّذِينَ آمَنُوا لَا تَرْفَعُوا أَصْوَاتَكُمْ فَوْقَ صَوْتِ النَّبِيِّ وَلَا تَجْهَرُوا لَهُ بِالْقَوْلِ كَجَهْرِ بَعْضِكُمْ لِبَعْضٍ أَن تَحْبَطَ أَعْمَالُكُمْ وَأَنتُمْ لَا تَشْعُرُونَ

O you who believe! Do not raise your voices above the voice of the Prophet, nor speak loudly when addressing him, as you would speak loudly to one another, lest your good deeds go in vain without your perceiving it.

[The Holy Qur'an, Surah 49, Ayah 2]

With that being said let us dissect and take a look at what is being said here

On 1/16/2020 at 6:55 AM, Reiki said:

Personally I think there are so many problems with being a believer

On the very first line, we see a problem that the OP has presented to us. Did you know @Reiki that the most beloved to Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) are the belivers and believers are not like ordinary Muslims? Perhaps you do not perceive this and like secularism and your secular friends more but just know that you are in opposition to Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) and His Messenger (Sawa) and should refrain from talking without knowledge as this is the trait of the foolish!

وَردَتِ الرّوايةُ الصَّحيحة أنّه لمّا نَزَلَت هذهِ الآيَةُ: ـ «فَمَنْ يُرِدِ اللّه‏ُ أن يَهدِيَهُ» ـ سُئلَ رسولُ اللّه‏ِ (صَلَّيَ اللهُ عَلَيهِ وَ آلِهِ) عن شَرحِ الصَّدرِ ما هُو ؟ فقالَ: نورٌ يَقذِفُهُ اللّه‏ُ في قَلبِ المؤمنِ فَيَنشَرِحُ لَهُ صَدرُهُ ويَنفَسِحُ .

When this verse was revealed:“Whomever Allah desires to guide…”, the Prophet (SAWA) was asked about the expanding of the breast and what it was. He said, ‘It is a light that Allah casts into the heart of a believer and it expands the heart and broadens it.’ They asked, ‘Is there a sign by which this may be known?’ He (SAWA) said, ‘Yes, to return to the eternal realm, to shun away from the realm of delusion, and to prepare for death before it comes.’[Majma`a al-Bayan, v. 4, p. 561]

الإمامُ الباقرُ (عَلَيهِ الّسَلامُ) : المؤمنُ أصْلَبُ مِن الجَبلِ ، الجَبلُ يُسْتَقَلُّ مِنه ، والمؤمنُ لا يُسْتَقَلُّ مِن دِينِه شَيءٌ.

Imam al-Baqir (عليه السلام) said, ‘The believer is harder than a mountain, for the mountain is dispensable whereas nothing can separate the believer from his religion.’[al-Kafi, v. 2, p. 241, no. 37]

 

"The believer is dearer to Allah than His closest angels."

 

- Prophet Muhammad ((صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم)) [Kanz al-’Ummal]

 

Imam as-Sadiq (‘a) said: "Verily everything is intimidated by a believer because the religion of Allah causes him to be powerful, and he is not intimidated by anything, which (epithet) is the characteristic of any believer." [Bihar-ul-Anwar, vol. 67, p. 305]

 

There are other characteristics of a believer and I recommend the studying and reviewing of this topic.

 

On 1/16/2020 at 6:55 AM, Reiki said:

The Messenger of Allah (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم), said, “Shall I not tell you of what is better in degree than extra fasting, prayer, and charity?” They said, “Of course!” The Prophet said, “Reconciliation between people. Verily, corrupted relations between people is the razor.”

Try to quote the source when you put forward a narration. RasoulAllah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) has said this and it has appeared in many places. However, Islam does not say to be friends with everyone and every action as well as relationship depends on the circumstance.

It should be clear that unbelief and belief are two opposites. Imam Ali (عليه السلام) has emphasised this in Dua Kumayl when he (عليه السلام) quotes a verse from the Holy Qur'an:

بِسْمِ اللهِ الرَّحْمَنِ الرَّحِيْم

أَفَمَن كَانَ مُؤْمِنًا كَمَن كَانَ فَاسِقًا ۚ لَّا يَسْتَوُونَ ﴿١٨

"Is he who believes like he who believes not? Verily, they are not equal"

Other verses also testify to this and complement each other

Surah An-Nisa, Verse 139:

 

الَّذِينَ يَتَّخِذُونَ الْكَافِرِينَ أَوْلِيَاءَ مِن دُونِ الْمُؤْمِنِينَ أَيَبْتَغُونَ عِندَهُمُ الْعِزَّةَ فَإِنَّ الْعِزَّةَ لِلَّهِ جَمِيعًا

 

Yea, to those who take for friends/guardians unbelievers rather than believers: is it honour they seek among them? Nay,- all honour is with Allah.

Surah An-Nisa, Verse 144:

يَا أَيُّهَا الَّذِينَ آمَنُوا لَا تَتَّخِذُوا الْكَافِرِينَ أَوْلِيَاءَ مِن دُونِ الْمُؤْمِنِينَ أَتُرِيدُونَ أَن تَجْعَلُوا لِلَّهِ عَلَيْكُمْ سُلْطَانًا مُّبِينًا

O you who believe! do not take the unbelievers for friends/guardians rather than the believers; do you desire that you should give to Allah a manifest proof against yourselves?

Now, to get to the other narrations about friendship:

 

الإمامُ عليٌّ (عَلَيهِ الّسَلامُ): اِحذَرْ مُصاحَبَةَ الفُسّاقِ والفُجّارِ والمُجاهِرِينَ بِمَعاصِي اللّه‏ِ

Imam Ali ((عليه السلام).) said, ‘Beware of befriending corrupt people, immoral people, and those who openly commit acts of disobedience to Allah.’ [Ibid. no. 2601]

'Do not befriend anyone until you know him well.' - Imam Hassan (عليه السلام) [Tohaf al Oqhool p:233]

الإمامُ عليٌّ (عَلَيهِ الّسَلامُ) : أحْبِبِ الإخْوانَ على قَدْرِ التَّقْوى.

Imam Ali (عليه السلام) said, ‘Love brothers in proportion to [their] piety.’[al-Ikhtisas, no. 226]

رسولُ اللهِ‏ِ (صَلَّيَ اللهُ عَلَيهِ وَ آلِهِ): لا خَيرَ لكَ في صُحبَةِ مَن لا يَرى لكَ مِثلَ الذي يَرى لِنَفسِهِ .

The Prophet (SAWA) said, ‘It is not good for you to befriend someone who does not have your best interests at heart as he does his own.’[al-Durra al-B?hira, p. 19]

"Stay away from places of suspicion and suspect gatherings, for an evil friend seduces his companion."

- Imam Ali Ibn Abi Talib (عليه السلام)

Bihar Al-Anwar, V. 75, P. 90, No. 2

And one of the most important:

Imam Ali (عليه السلام) said, ‘A man whose friendship is not for the sake of Allah must be avoided, for his friendship is vile, and his company is doomed.’  [Ghurar Al-Hikam, No. 8978]

I also recommend looking into who not to be friends with and not just who to be friends with as that is looking at religion at a false & narrow perspective.

Also, talking about the word religion

On 1/16/2020 at 6:55 AM, Reiki said:

Islam has nothing to do with any belief-system

On 1/16/2020 at 6:55 AM, Reiki said:

For me, Islam is not a Religion but a Way of Life and a Spiritual Quest and I am not a believer

The last time I heared this to be honest was when a Hindu was saying that about his religion. But unlike their stories of their gods being born out from the demons and being the cheats of the gamblers and making wrong claims about the solar system and science since it is not the religion of Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) as Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) made the universe and His religion testifies to this.

In that being said, do we follow what Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) says about His (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) religion or what you say? Definitely the former:

بِسْمِ اللهِ الرَّحْمَنِ الرَّحِيْم

إِنَّ الدِّينَ عِندَ اللَّهِ الْإِسْلَامُ ۗ وَمَا اخْتَلَفَ الَّذِينَ أُوتُوا الْكِتَابَ إِلَّا مِن بَعْدِ مَا جَاءَهُمُ الْعِلْمُ بَغْيًا بَيْنَهُمْ ۗ وَمَن يَكْفُرْ بِآيَاتِ اللَّهِ فَإِنَّ اللَّهَ سَرِيعُ الْحِسَابِ - 3:19

Surely the (true) religion with Allah is Islam, and those to whom the Book had been given did not show opposition but after knowledge had come to them, out of envy among themselves; and whoever disbelieves in the communications of Allah then surely Allah is quick in reckoning.

صَدَقَ اللهُ العَلِيُّ العَظيم

We are becomming Ghafileen more and more as times goes by about the religion of Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى), The Religion of Truth. We must come back to the Holy Qur'an al-Kareem and The Sunnah which is the Prophet (Sawa) and the Ahlul Bayt (عليه السلام) - not our desires.

"Look at the people of the Prophet's family. Adhere to their direction. Follow their footsteps because they would never let you out of guidance, and never throw you into destruction. If they sit down, you sit down, and if they rise up you rise up. Do not go ahead of them, as you would thereby go astray and go not lag behind them as you would thereby be ruined."

~ Imam Ali (a)

On 1/16/2020 at 6:55 AM, Reiki said:

a big no-no

Last but not least in religion we do not just have belief and faith, we have certainty. Again we will not follow you or what anyone else says about Islam. We will see what Islam has to say about Islam and that is Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) and the Ahlul Bayt (As):

“ وَقوِّهِ بِاليَقِينِ “

Certainty or conviction is a decisive, stable, mental state in accordance with reality and unperishable which gives peace and quiet to the man of conviction, this conviction being related to knowledge about God or related to other matters of belief. [Jami’ al-Sa’adat, vol.1, p.119]

عَنْ أَنَسِ بْنِ مَالِكِ قَالَ: قَالَ رَسُولُ اللٌّهِ: إِنَّ مِنْ ضَعْفِ الْيَـقِينِ أَنْ تُرْضِيَ النَّاسَ بِسَخَطِ اللٌّهِ تَعَالـى، وَ أَنْ تَحْمَدَهُمْ عَلى رِزْقِ اللٌّهِ تَعَالـى وَ أَنْ تَذُمَّهُمْ عَلى مَا لَمْ يُؤْتِكَ اللٌّهُ … إِنَّكَ إِنْ تَدَعُ شَيْئاً لِلٌّهِ إِلاَّ أَتَاكَ اللٌّهُ خَيْراً مِنْهُ، وَ إِنْ تَأْتِي شَيْئاً تَقَرُّباً إِلـى اللٌّهِ تَعَالـى إِلاَّ أَجْزَلَ اللٌّهُ لَكَ الثَّوَابَ عَنْهُ. فَاجْعَلُوا هِمَّـتَكُمْ الآخِرَةَ لاَ يَـنْفَدُ فِيهَا ثَوَابُ الْمَرْضِيِّ عَنْهُ، وَ لاَ يَنْقَطِعُ فِيهَا عِقَابُ الْمَسْخُوطِ عَلَيْهِ.

Anas b. Malik has narrated that the Messenger of Allah (S) said, “Surely the weakness in certainty is due to people trading the (seeking of the) pleasure of the people for the anger of Allah, the Most High; praising the people for the sustenance which Allah, the Most High has conferred upon you (instead of praising Him); and for blaming others for that which Allah has not given you …

You do not refrain from anything only for Allah (and His pleasure) except that Allah will give you even better than that (which you have refrained from); you do not perform anything which would bring you closer to Allah, the Most High, except that Allah gives you a reward greater than what is expected!

So then expend your energies for the next life since the reward is reserved for the servant who has done good deeds and whom Allah is pleased with, while the punishment is for the one that performs bad deeds and earns the anger of Allah, and it shall never end.”

[Bihar al-Anwar, vol. 74, pg. 185]

Dear brothers and sisters. Do not ever tell me about my previous post whilst knowing posts like these and worse exist including other things. This is a sign of great hypocrisy.

والاخر دعوانا الحمد الله رب العالمين

وصل الله على سيدنا محمد وال الطاهرين

 

[Cool]

On 1/16/2020 at 4:55 PM, Reiki said:

the word mistranslated into English as believer has the roots, hamza-meem-nun, meaning to have faith. Of course, "belief" is a synonym to "faith" in English, but languages like Arabic are fundamentally different from languages like English. Arabic is a language where a single word is capable of a multitude of meanings

Salam,

I can agree with you as long as you are translating "emaan" as faith. 

What is lacking in your essay is that you were unable to present Arabic word for believe. 

I think your essay revolves around the difference between "aslamna" & "aamanna" mentioned in the following verse:

Surah Al-Hujraat, Verse 14:
قَالَتِ الْأَعْرَابُ آمَنَّا قُل لَّمْ تُؤْمِنُوا وَلَٰكِن قُولُوا أَسْلَمْنَا وَلَمَّا يَدْخُلِ الْإِيمَانُ فِي قُلُوبِكُمْ وَإِن تُطِيعُوا اللَّهَ وَرَسُولَهُ لَا يَلِتْكُم مِّنْ أَعْمَالِكُمْ شَيْئًا إِنَّ اللَّهَ غَفُورٌ رَّحِيمٌ

The dwellers of the desert say: We believe. Say: You do not believe but say, We submit; and faith has not yet entered into your hearts; and if you obey Allah and His Apostle, He will not diminish aught of your deeds; surely Allah is Forgiving, Merciful.
(English - Shakir)

Does "aslamna" means "to believe"? If not what is the Arabic word you think which can be translated as "to believe"?

[eThErEaL]

Reiki is 100% correct.  This is not supposed to turn into a discussion on semantics regarding “belief” and “faith”.

as far as Reiki is concerned he defined in his own way what he was implying by the terms he was using.  For Reiki, “belief” implies lack of certitude, and “faith” implies certitude.  Alright, so he wants to use the words in this way, no problem, let us see what else he has to say.

 

[Reiki]

2 hours ago, yashia said:

when we talk about religion we should use our opinion less

A 'discussion forum' must prefer a premise for open and free discussions. Cambridge Dictionary defines discussion as: "the activity in which people talk about something and tell each other their ideas or opinions." Furthermore I have posted my topic in the General Islamic Discussion forum. 

I think you misinterpreted my whole post. Possibly the title of my post infuriated you. Pardon me.

2 hours ago, yashia said:

آمَنُوا

This is an Arabic word with roots alif-meem-nun, which can also be translated into English as 'faithful', 'believer', 'trustful', 'secure', 'to be quiet', 'to be free of expectations', 'promise' and many more, depending on the context.

 

3 hours ago, yashia said:

O you who believe!

Fine. You translated it into English as Believer but I can as well translate it as Faithful and I wont be wrong. So, My whole point is that when one reads translations of Al Qur'an Al Kareem, they are actually reading the translator's interpretation of the original Arabic and mistakes are expected. A translator will be biased towards his own thoughts/experiences/education/imperfections. Furthermore =, some languages like English are not created to be efficient enough to be the target translated language for ancient languages like Arabic. Even the Classic Arabic is very different from the Hejazi Arabic and no one from the companions of our Prophet(صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم) is alive today to explain us the Baatin of Al Qur'an Al Kereem. We can only "interpret" Al Qur'an Al Kareem By listing the possible meanings of the roots with all of their occurrences & comments on grammar. So, please understand the fact that none of our interpretations of Al Qur'an Al Kareem is perfect.

Now, the question is why did I prefer the translation of Alif-Meem-Nun into English as "faith" and not "belief"?
This is because first and foremost, any translation must not contradict and rather be in agreement to Ahl ul-Bayt or Al Qur'an Al Kareem. This is the key factor that defines the validity of a translation.

It is stated:

Quote

 

يا اميرالمؤمنين ما الحقيقة

فقال ما لك والحقيقة

فقال او لست صاحب سرّك

قال بلى ولكن يرشح عليك ما يطفح منى

فقال ما الحقيقة

كشف سبحات الجلال من غير اشارة

فقال زدنى بيانا

محو الموهوم و صحو المعلوم

فقال زدنى بيانا

قال هتك الستر لغلبة السرّ

فقال زدنى بيانا

قال جذب الاحدية  لصفة التوحيد

فقال زدنى بيانا

نورٌ اشرق من صبح الازل فيلوح على هياكل التوحيد آثاره

فقال زدنى بيانا

فاطف السراج فقد طلع الصبح

- Kalimāt maknūnah min 'ulum ahl al-hikma wa'l-ma 'rifa /wa aqwalihim by al-Kāshānī (1386/2007, §11)

 

3 hours ago, yashia said:

Kumayl

So speaking of Kumayl. Here is what Hazrat Ali (SA) had replied to him, "محو الموهوم و صحو المعلوم"
This is transliterated as "mahw al-mawhum wa sahw al-maelum" where, al-mawhum means 'speculation' which is a synonym for believing. Translate it whatever way you wish to and you'll get it as follows: "Dispelling of believes or speculations and appreciation of experiences." Further, even in common sense, speculating or making predictions about what is not in one’s experience yet and moreover considering them as the reality is obviously far from reality, or is it not?

3 hours ago, yashia said:

Secondly @Reiki and anyone else, when we talk about religion we should use our opinion less and should use the fact of Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى).

.

I can go on like this, quoting you from different sources and providing you meanings that are all different from one another. But I am not here to convince anyone. I am faithful to Islam and no one except Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) can restrict me from speaking what I have experienced because it is through His and His Alone's wish that I am alive and have a mind to think and speak out my views.

3 hours ago, yashia said:

Try to quote the source when you put forward a narration.

Sure. As you see I did now.

3 hours ago, yashia said:

The last time I heared this to be honest was when a Hindu was saying that about his religion.

Do read verses 3:134, 25:63 from Al Qur'an Al Kareem. 

[Reiki]

12 hours ago, Muhammed Ali said:

No it isn't. Especially in the context of religion. Faith is weaker than belief.

My mistake. Pardon me and Thank You. It means that one MUST analyze the Arabic words related to belief and faith before translating them blatantly so as to prevent any confusions.  

[Reiki]

12 hours ago, Muhammed Ali said:

No it isn't. Especially in the context of religion. Faith is weaker than belief.

But please elucidate on the fact that faith is weaker than belief?

In my views: Faith can either be gained or lost by experiencing changes in oneself during a spiritual transformation unlike belief which is rigid and forced upon someone. So, yes. I agree that faith may be weaker than belief initially because it is not as strong as just blatant following but it is understanding and then trusting. Well!

[eThErEaL]

On 1/16/2020 at 6:55 AM, Reiki said:

What Qur'an has to say about Islam?

Qur'an itself refers to Islam as Din -

While the word "religion" would again connect Islam with a certain form of theism, Din is an Arabic word with its root being d-y-n, meaning ‘to dissolve.’ Thus, the Prophet (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم) himself is telling that Islam has nothing to do with any belief-system, rather it is about submission to the whole of the creation and becoming one with it and obviously it needs faith to walk such a truthful path and dissolve. This is why Allah has the name Al-Ahad - The Unifier. 

Just would like to get a reference for how you got “Dissolve” from the root letters of “din” (D-y-n).  I know that the etymological meaning of this word has to do with “Debt”, and also “Blood Money (which is a kind of debt as well)”.  And one can make a connection between “Reigion” and “Debt”.  We are indebted to God and religion is a way of paying this debt.  

[Reiki]

8 minutes ago, eThErEaL said:

Just would like to get a reference for how you got “Dissolve” from the root letters of “din” (D-y-n).  I know that the etymological meaning of this word has to do with “Debt”, and also “Blood Money (which is a kind of debt as well)”.  And one can make a connection between “Reigion” and “Debt”.  We are indebted to God and religion is a way of paying this debt.  

Sure. In addition to "to be indebted", the roots Dal-Ya-Nun also mean "to be obedient", "submissive", "to owe", "servility". To reference you, I searched a bit and found the following links that agree to the above meaning:

https://wahiduddin.net/words/arabic_glossary.htm

http://www.studyquran.org/resources/Quranic_Root_Dictionary.pdf

Now, "to be Submissive" to Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) is being completely dissolved in Him and attaining the Divine Oneness (al-Ahadiyya). Hazrat Khwaja Mansur Al-Hallaj, after being dissolved in Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) exclaimed "Ana al-Haq." So, not just in a literal sense, but there is a BAATIN to every word in Al Qur'an Al Kareem.   

[funklebits]

8 hours ago, yashia said:

I would like to say first and foremost @funklebits that in regards to my other post and other posts I make or comments, I am not wanting to please the creation my only concern is that The Creator (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) is pleased.

I can understand and appreceate that. Please understand I meant no offense. I was just curious.

[funklebits]

9 hours ago, yashia said:

Dear brothers and sisters. Do not ever tell me about my previous post whilst knowing posts like these and worse exist including other things. This is a sign of great hypocrisy.

You're kidding right? This post was brilliant.

In no way was I trying to be combative in the beginning. My true goal was to see what kind of post you considered to be the standard so that I could maybe align to a higher standard and make posts that are more meaningful. Posts that would be meaningful, that would allow us all to contribute our thoughts and grow.

However now, I think you may need to take a step back, take a deep breath and realize you may be part of the problem. Your arrogance and condescension ruined your post and any point you made was lost as I could not reconcile your quotes with the tone you presented.

I would wish you joy and happiness, but I feel like those emotions are foreign to you and would bring you discomfort. So instead I will simply say, I hope the rest of the day treats you as you wish.

[realizm]

I think that's how things go according to Qur'an : you stick to what Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) prescribes for you, Allah raises you in faith and status. He (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) does not ask us 'listen and accept what I am saying now'.

[yashia]

@funklebits I have given my evidence and you have given nothing. In Dua Sahifa Sajjadiya it says your enemy accuses you of their own faults as it is what they have and not you and they are seeing it.

As for your last point:

On 1/24/2020 at 11:49 AM, funklebits said:

However now, I think you may need to take a step back, take a deep breath and realize you may be part of the problem. Your arrogance and condescension ruined your post and any point you made was lost as I could not reconcile your quotes with the tone you presented.

We will see who is ruined on the Day of Judgement. And this goes on anyone who wants to put his opinion on top of religion and promote it over religion.

Condenscendance is in our religion and it is for people and their supporters that oppose the truth of Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى). For people like you and the Sufi OP which the secular 'Shia' seem to be getting along with more than that of Imam Ali (عليه السلام) because that is their pathetic state of their internal spiritual heart where they readily accept more falsehood than truth.

Edited January 25, 2020 by yashia

[yashia]

People like you are not receptive to truth. People like you never learn and if you do not refrain from talking over the words of Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) soon there will be a punishment and this is to everyone these days that thinks they can put their vanity in front of the words of Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى). May Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) deal with all these people that think they are something to do this today when they or anyone who does this are nothing.

However, I am not particularly surprised at the Sufi OP for doing this as this is exactly what his companions that he follows did. So whoever wants to follow in his footsteps, follow the condemned in religion and see where it takes you in this world, on the day of judgement and after the day of judgement.

Next time @funklebits I post something with many evidences (and definitely not for no reason) then you ignore it and favor falsehood in that manner that you performed, expect a reply like this and more than this. Maybe if I spoke to cows it will be better because they never had a brain to comprehend anything and do not have an accountability if they ignore it or not while you people have a brain that is capable of realisation and faculties that Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) has given you yet it is as if you have been given it for nothing. Or actually, it is as if you have been given it to oppose divine authority. Be the authority of yourself without guidance and see where it takes you and this goes to anyone that wants to follow the same footsteps of these people.

[ShiaMahamed]

58 minutes ago, yashia said:

@funklebits I have given my evidence and you have given nothing. In Dua Sahifa Sajjadiya it says your enemy accuses you of their own faults as it is what they have and not you and they are seeing it.

As for your last point:

We will see who is ruined on the Day of Judgement. And this goes on anyone who wants to put his opinion on top of religion and promote it over religion.

Condenscendance is in our religion and it is for people and their supporters that oppose the truth of Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى). For people like you and the Sufi OP which the secular 'Shia' seem to be getting along with more than that of Imam Ali (عليه السلام) because that is their pathetic state of their internal spiritual heart where they readily accept more falsehood than truth.

Well said! 

[Fleabreezy]

Complete waste of time thinking or talking about this stuff. Talking about the story of Musa or Yusuf and what you can gain from the ayat of those stories is far better for getting to jannah than this pseudo intellectual nonsense. I mean this respectfully, this semantical nonsense will get people who think in a literalist and basic sense (like myself), but whose imaan is not strong into dangerous places. No precedence for this anywhere in Islamic thought, so AVOID.

I 100% believe. I’m more sure of Allah than I am of the 4 fingers and a thumb I’ve got on my hand.

[Son of Placid]

45 minutes ago, ShiaMahamed said:

We will see who is ruined on the Day of Judgement. And this goes on anyone who wants to put his opinion on top of religion and promote it over religion.

Spoken like a true southern Baptist. 

[Abu Nur]

Quote

We will see who is ruined on the Day of Judgement. And this goes on anyone who wants to put his opinion on top of religion and promote it over religion.

Brother, why need to say such a thing, when we need to be kind. And the op is only expressing his faith and understanding and wants to discuss about it.

[Reiki]

1 hour ago, Fleabreezy said:

Complete waste of time thinking or talking about this stuff. Talking about the story of Musa or Yusuf and what you can gain from the ayat of those stories is far better for getting to jannah than this pseudo intellectual nonsense. I mean this respectfully, this semantical nonsense will get people who think in a literalist and basic sense (like myself), but whose imaan is not strong into dangerous places. No precedence for this anywhere in Islamic thought, so AVOID.

I 100% believe. I’m more sure of Allah than I am of the 4 fingers and a thumb I’ve got on my hand.

Respectfully, Jannah is a level of spirituality that is to be achieved within this lifetime. When you are dead and your body has been burried into the soil, what will you do with all the good food and everything that you "believe" jannah comprises of?  

Peace is the fundamental goal of life. If you leave peace for the afterlife you will only rest in peace!

[Cool]

16 hours ago, eThErEaL said:

This is not supposed to turn into a discussion on semantics regarding “belief” and “faith”.

Salam,

The OP involved itself in semantics by stating what faith actually is and has translated an Arabic root word for emaan as well as meanings of what is meant by "to believe"

On 1/16/2020 at 4:55 PM, Reiki said:

Personally I think there are so many problems with being a believer. When you say “I believe” you are fundamentally saying, “I am unwilling to admit that I do not know”. The seeker is willing to admit he doesn’t know! The believer is unwilling to make this admission. 

So what is this "belief" or "believe" in Arabic? The scholars, the dictionaries uses faith, belief for the single Arabic word Emaan. 

I am not discouraging @Reiki, rather motivating him to do more research. It was a good attempt and there always exist chances of betterment and perfection in our writings/essays and in our thoughts.

 

[ShiaMahamed]

3 hours ago, Son of Placid said:

Spoken like a true southern Baptist. 

What? Lol

 

Here is the full quote:

5 hours ago, yashia said:

@funklebits I have given my evidence and you have given nothing. In Dua Sahifa Sajjadiya it says your enemy accuses you of their own faults as it is what they have and not you and they are seeing it.

As for your last point:

We will see who is ruined on the Day of Judgement. And this goes on anyone who wants to put his opinion on top of religion and promote it over religion.

Condenscendance is in our religion and it is for people and their supporters that oppose the truth of Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى). For people like you and the Sufi OP which the secular 'Shia' seem to be getting along with more than that of Imam Ali (عليه السلام) because that is their pathetic state of their internal spiritual heart where they readily accept more falsehood than truth.

 

[yashia]

7 hours ago, Son of Placid said:

Spoken like a true southern Baptist. 

Don't get me started on how much the bible has changed to the extent where it has the audacity to say that God Almighty (Astaghfirullah) made children eat human faeces baked in other things in chapter Malachi!

Edited January 25, 2020 by yashia

[eThErEaL]

1 hour ago, yashia said:

Don't get me started on how much the bible has changed to the extent where it has the audacity to say that God Almighty (Astaghfirullah) made children eat human faeces baked in other things in chapter Malachi!

You are very rude and disrespectful to people on this forum.  

[yashia]

@eThErEaLI am not going to respond to you or the likes of you anymore. In your grave you will wish you were receptive to truth, sense and evidence. May Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) deal with you and the likes of you (those who like to provoke others and twist things to suit their own arrogant self)!

اللهم صل على محمد وال محمد

[eThErEaL]

On 1/25/2020 at 6:36 AM, yashia said:

@eThErEaLI am not going to respond to you or the likes of you anymore. In your grave you will wish you were receptive to truth, sense and evidence. May Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) deal with you and the likes of you (those who like to provoke others and twist things to suit their own arrogant self)!

اللهم صل على محمد وال محمد

You have recited the Salawat after what amounts to very harsh words to us (to say the least) ....something that borders “cursing”.  When you said the Salawat, did you say it with bitterness towards us knowing that Seyyidna Muhammad Mustafa (S) was not sent except as a mercy to all of mankind?  Are you aware of what you are reciting?  Just asking.

[yashia]

@eThErEaLI just saw the website you quoted on your profile which shows what you are. How can you even talk about this religion you know nothing about? Buddhist wisdom, Hindu wisdom, secular wisdom, western wisdom. No wisdom from the true path in your bio. It shows from the beginning what you really listen to and that is not the truth of Islam as you cannot even promote it and promote other sayings that you take pride of inpriority. That's exactly proving my point more now and I better not say what you are.  Because the name of it is not nice. You started disliking all my posts and liking someone that promotes their faith of Christianity instead - if anyone quotes something that is not the falsehood that fills you up with your bad energy you dislike it.

You are foul and hideous May Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) degrade you for your provocations and may you get what you deserve in your face. May Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) degrade you!

اللهم صل على محمد وال محمد

[yashia]

On 1/25/2020 at 6:38 AM, eThErEaL said:

Point proven.  

"Silence is the best reply to a fool". - Imam Ali (عليه السلام)

[eThErEaL]

On 1/25/2020 at 6:51 AM, yashia said:

"Silence is the best reply to a fool". - Imam Ali (عليه السلام)

Yes.  I can see you are a good a practitioner of that.  

[Fleabreezy]

8 hours ago, Reiki said:

Respectfully, Jannah is a level of spirituality that is to be achieved within this lifetime. When you are dead and your body has been burried into the soil, what will you do with all the good food and everything that you "believe" jannah comprises of?  

Peace is the fundamental goal of life. If you leave peace for the afterlife you will only rest in peace!

Outdone yourself here mate. 
Absolute nonsense. Jannah is a place those Allah is pleased with go when they die, not some fleeting made up trance when you feel spiritual. The fundamental goal of life is obedience to the Almighty to attain jannah. Read the Qur’an.

[yashia]

On 1/25/2020 at 6:38 AM, eThErEaL said:

Are you aware of what you are reciting?  Just asking.

 

On 1/25/2020 at 6:53 AM, eThErEaL said:

Yes.  I can see you are a good a practitioner of that.  

WAllah you keep justifying my point more. If that's what you want. May Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) curse you.

اللهم صل على محمد وال محمد

I will be silent. But if you want me to reply, I will reply with a better reply than you. I advise you keep silent after this.

[Fleabreezy]

On 1/16/2020 at 11:55 AM, Reiki said:

Personally I think there are so many problems with being a believer. When you say “I believe” you are fundamentally saying, “I am unwilling to admit that I do not know”. The seeker is willing to admit he doesn’t know! The believer is unwilling to make this admission. He draws conclusions about what is not yet within his experience. A believer may make assumptions about the day of the judgement!

Quite amazing, being a believer (the ones who get jannah) doesn’t seem a problem to me.

اكثرهم لا يعلمون

Funny how every time Allah reveals these words to us it is about those who are not guided, yet somehow admitting you don’t know is a virtue to you. These thoughts you have are from the shaytaan. I don’t need experience to draw conclusions, Allah knows everything and I get my conclusions from His book. May Allah forgive me for my negative tone towards you and May He guide you to something other than this kufr you are trying to draw others to, by some weird intellectual rationalisation.