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In the Name of God بسم الله
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IRGC Releases Details of Accidental Downing of Ukrainian Plane

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4 hours ago, AkhiraisReal said:

Why did it take that long? 

And I don't honestly believe what was said is true. 

General Staff of the Armed Forces has formed an investigation team, and has totally quarantined the team and all those involved in the issue. So we weren’t allowed to say anything to anyone. We had broken the news [to the officials], but investigation had to be carried out. It took a few days to publicize the news, but that wasn’t because anyone wanted to hide the truth; rather, this is the normal procedure; the General Staff must probe into the issue.

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14 hours ago, AkhiraisReal said:

Why did it take that long? 

And I don't honestly believe what was said is true. 

Do you suspect that foreign actors sabotaged and/or bombed the aircraft?

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36 minutes ago, Northwest said:

Do you suspect that foreign actors sabotaged and/or bombed the aircraft?

It could be some complicated scenario that didnt directly sabotage the aircraft, for instance, jamming the radio at 'right time'.
Regardless foreign actors did some sabotage or not, the blame is on IRGC air defense.

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1 hour ago, Northwest said:

Do you suspect that foreign actors sabotaged and/or bombed the aircraft?

They clearly did not do that in this case, but it would not be beyond their capability and intentions.

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17 hours ago, AkhiraisReal said:

Why did it take that long? 

And I don't honestly believe what was said is true. 

My question is, Who told them the US cruise missiles were incoming?

Being prepared for the possibility and being prepared for the inevitable are two different things. The soldier acted according to the inevitable, based on false intel. That is problematic.

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Dear SoP

Iran is in war mode, one in which all sorts of errors are known to happen.

I cannot recall explicit details but I remember having read about errors committed in the Vietnam conflict as well as in WWI and WWII.

While the US may not accept blame, they are also to blame for this tragedy.

If they hadn't created the 'heated' situation, this would never have happened.

And despite the Democrats asking for it, the US gov has still not provided details of the apprehensions from Suleimany.

All good generals are regarded with awe by their adversaries.

I may be wrong but my personal view is that Suleimany's excellent military record had instilled fear in the US Defence body and the only way to feel good about him was to kill him.

If Suleimany was bad man, so are most generals anywhere in the world, especially in a country whose drones have been perfecting the art of killing innocent people in Afghanistan and Pakistan for more than 10 years.

No one is a saint here.

This game can only be played by people who can make their heads rule over their hearts.

If you compare modern warfare, especially techniques developed in the last 100 years with the teachings of the Prophet and Imam Ali, you will be amazed. 

Spying for example is not allowed.

Deceiving the enemy is forbidden.

But in modern warfare, they are all an integral part of our offence strategy.

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On 1/12/2020 at 9:19 AM, 000 said:

He said the operator had mistaken the passenger plane with a cruise missile, and took down the passenger plane after he failed to contact his commanders.

 

Salam,

These are the places where Iran really need to work hard to make sure no such incident happen in future. There has to be a foolproof command & control system, the excuse that the operator is failed to establish contact with commanders is a joke. 

Secondly, if Iranian radars have this capacity that they don't even recognize any passenger planes, they should have to scrap all these radars and need to buy more sophisticated ones which can identify passenger/military planes, friend/enemy air-crafts. 

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On 1/12/2020 at 12:22 AM, AkhiraisReal said:

1] Why did it take that long? 

2] And I don't honestly believe what was said is true. 

1] Rumor control and verification through interviews.

2] l do.

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1 hour ago, Logic1234 said:

S

These are the places where Iran really need to work hard to make sure no such incident happen in future. There has to be a foolproof command & control system, the excuse that the operator is failed to establish contact with commanders is a joke. 

S. 

Since WW2, air defense posture is one of three: Weapons Tight, Weapons Hold, Weapons Free.

Tight means Do not fire unless fired upon

Hold means Do not fire untill identiffication is clear.

Free means "rick -n- roll" at everything.

Edited by hasanhh

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1 hour ago, Logic1234 said:

These are the places where Iran really need to work hard to make sure no such incident happen in future.

I'd be thinking if Iran were to keep it's revolution inside it's borders until tried and true, then they could convince the surrounding countries by example, rather than by force. 

That would probably reduce the chance of such incidents dramatically.

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6 hours ago, Son of Placid said:

I'd be thinking if Iran were to keep it's revolution inside it's borders until tried and true, then they could convince the surrounding countries by example, rather than by force. 

It would be hard to claim that Iran is trying to export their revolution. What I can see they are doing is supporting the axis of resistance. If they did not train, arm and organize the PMU in Iraq and the NDF in Syria the takfiri terrorists would have had the upper hand. While aiding their neighbors they are also helping them selves. I see no effort from the Iranians to extend the Velayat-e faqih to any other country. They even seam reluctant to make dawah in for instance western countries.

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5 hours ago, Revert1963 said:

It would be hard to claim that Iran is trying to export their revolution. What I can see they are doing is supporting the axis of resistance. If they did not train, arm and organize the PMU in Iraq and the NDF in Syria the takfiri terrorists would have had the upper hand. While aiding their neighbors they are also helping them selves. I see no effort from the Iranians to extend the Velayat-e faqih to any other country. They even seam reluctant to make dawah in for instance western countries.

Still learning Iranian government. If this is a reliable site. 

https://institute.global/insight/co-existence/what-velayat-e-faqih

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On 1/13/2020 at 3:03 AM, 000 said:

It could be some complicated scenario that didnt directly sabotage the aircraft, for instance, jamming the radio at 'right time'.
Regardless foreign actors did some sabotage or not, the blame is on IRGC air defense.

Now it's circulating in some Iranian media that America had done electronic warfare when it happened.
https://ana.ir/fa/news/8/397918/علت-وقوع-حادثه-هواپیمای-اوکراینی-ریشه-در-دانش-سایبرنتیک-دارد-نقش-خطای-انسانی-منتفی-است-اسناد

Edited by 000

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2 minutes ago, 000 said:

Now it's circulating in some Iranian media that America had done electronic warfare when it happened.

I don't think the rumors are going to stop until Iran finds some form of comfort.

We now know it was human error. No electronics involved in a visual, or in pressing a big red button.

Edited by Son of Placid

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18 minutes ago, Son of Placid said:

Still learning Iranian government. If this is a reliable site. 

https://institute.global/insight/co-existence/what-velayat-e-faqih

Basically you need to know that there are 2 different system co-existed in Iran. One is that is more like conventional western states, and one is Hezbollah-like. It's like yin and yang combined.

Edited by 000

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Just now, Son of Placid said:
Quote

..... Tony Blair Institute for Global Change

"Tony Blair" come on! He is just a lying war monger western imperialist stooge!

Here is a deffinition and explanation from Ahlul Bayt Library
https://www.al-Islam.org/Shia-political-thought-ahmed-vaezi/what-wilayat-al-faqih

And here are books about the subject that you can even download in PDF
https://www.al-Islam.org/ur/tags/wilayat-al-faqih

Edited by Revert1963

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15 hours ago, Son of Placid said:

I don't think the rumors are going to stop until Iran finds some form of comfort.

But it's still possible, given that there were so many similar 'accidents'. ie suddenly planes disappeared from sight.

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On 1/12/2020 at 8:23 PM, Northwest said:

Do you suspect that foreign actors sabotaged and/or bombed the aircraft?

That's a possibility, but the question is why do IRGC take the responsibility if that's the case. 

Was it intentionally? Someone in the inside? 

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12 minutes ago, Son of Placid said:

We now know it was human error. No electronics involved in a visual, or in pressing a big red button.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electronic_warfare
Electronic warfare (EW) is any action involving the use of the electromagnetic spectrum (EM spectrum) or directed energy to control the spectrum, attack an enemy, or impede enemy assaults. The purpose of electronic warfare is to deny the opponent the advantage of, and ensure friendly unimpeded access to, the EM spectrum. EW can be applied from air, sea, land, and/or space by manned and unmanned systems, and can target humans, communication, radar, or other assets (military and civilian

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27 minutes ago, Son of Placid said:

There are some flaws in this concept.

1. Given that the VF is chosen by the so-called Assembly of Experts, it negates itself by giving veto (and therefore) absolute power to the VF

2., There are areas in government such as diplomacy, technology and those that require intuitive excellence where religious knowledge cannot help. But the VF has power even over those.

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9 minutes ago, 000 said:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electronic_warfare
Electronic warfare (EW) is any action involving the use of the electromagnetic spectrum (EM spectrum) or directed energy to control the spectrum, attack an enemy, or impede enemy assaults. The purpose of electronic warfare is to deny the opponent the advantage of, and ensure friendly unimpeded access to, the EM spectrum. EW can be applied from air, sea, land, and/or space by manned and unmanned systems, and can target humans, communication, radar, or other assets (military and civilian

addtionally the report said that University of Tehran's Cyber Lab found vulnerability in radar systems protocol. I couldn't further investigate how it is like as I have limited technical knowledge and language capability. For those who want to read the paper: https://media.ana.ir/1398/10/23/637145324738833107.pdf

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. According to the daily newspaper Al-Masdar the Syrian air defense responded to an attack by unidentified missiles, in the outskirts of Damascus. Three devices would have aimed at the airport of Dumair. But this too turned out to be a false alarm.

https://www.difesaesicurezza.com/en/defence-and-security/Syria-has-probably-undergone-a-cyber-attack-as-well-as-an-offensive-with-missiles

15 hours ago, Son of Placid said:

Yeah, and Canada is going to spend $$$ to come "investigate". 

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1 hour ago, Son of Placid said:

Exactly, what's to investigate? 

It's our girly PM trying to look tough. He had some "strong words", but he didn't cry. He's cried for much less. I don't think he'll visit in person. It's probably hard to find good vodka in Iran.

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57 minutes ago, Son of Placid said:

It's our girly PM trying to look tough. 

Considering that he has had some strained moments with his powerful neighbour, he may be just trying to show that after all, he is a faithful ally. 

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12 minutes ago, baqar said:

Considering that he has had some strained moments with his powerful neighbour, he may be just trying to show that after all, he is a faithful ally. 

Trump already called him two faced, (no reference to colour), it doesn't matter what he says or does now. 

 

-34C

Edited by Son of Placid

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8 hours ago, Son of Placid said:

It's probably hard to find good vodka in Iran.

You wouldn't find it in the shops, but if you get acquainted with locals (especially in North Tehran) they might offer you a drink. I can't speak about the quality though as I would decline such offers.

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