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In the Name of God بسم الله

Pursuing law [Halal or Haram]

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I am thinking about pursuing a degree in law as it is my first year in college and have seen it is a career fit for me, however when I bring the topic up I am oftentimes bombarded with allegations that it is haram and is not permissible to undertake such a path. 

@Mahdavist @Hameedeh @Gaius I. Caesar @AbdulKarim313_Austin/Nola @Haji 2003 @hasanhh @Ibn al-Hussain @Ibn Al-Shahid @Ibn Al-Ja'abi @Moalfas @Abu Nur @Muhammed Ali @ali_fatheroforphans @King @The Green Knight

Edited by Mohammad313Ali
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As a lawyer

- 50% of the time you will be proving the innocent as innocent and the guilty as guilty.

- 50% of the time you will be proving the innocent as guilty and the guilty as innocent.

Fair enough?

However

- 50% of the time, the evidence and investigation will be incomplete, unreliable, biased or influenced by corruption etc.

- 50% of the laws are unislamic, excessive, oppressive or simply incorrect.

Then as your career progresses you can become a judge. As judge you will be forced to issue verdict based on evidence and prosecution/defense of the lawyers depending on their skills, IF by then you are still human and not corrupt, which you probably won't be. If you manage to remain human then 50% of your verdicts can still be unjust or wrong.

 

My advice is to avoid this path. Infinitely better to starve to death than burn for all eternities in unimaginable agony.

Edited by The Green Knight
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There is a shortage of Muslim lawyers in the West and it doesn't need to be haram if you are selective.  I wouldn't pursue law as an undergrad though especially in North America, you can pursue law with any degree.  I was interested in law school at one point but I have been enjoying CS a bit too much.

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Whilst criminal/family law does entail defending the guilty and attempting to incriminate the innocent, there are several other fields of law you can explore. Human rights, Corporate, immigration etc 

Sayed Sistani finds it conditionally permissible as long as it's defending justice and truth, otherwise the income would not be Halal. 

 

https://www.Sistani.org/Arabic/qa/0684/

 

السؤال: هل يجوز العمل في مهنة المحاماة حيث إن العامل بها يدافع عن موكله ظالماً أو مظلوماً وخاصة إذا كان المحامي موظفاً لدى شركة فإن عليه أن يعمل ما بوسعه ليربح القضية؟

 

Question: is if permissible to work in the legal profession where the lawyer defends his client justly or unjustly especially if the lawyer is employed by a firm and must do his best to win the case? 

 

الجواب: يجوز العمل في المحاماة اذا كان يتمحض في الدفاع عن الحقوق الثابتة شرعا دون ما اثبته القانون الوضعي وعلى كل تقدير فلا بد ان تكون القضية التي يدافع عنها قضية عادلة يتحرى فيها الحق والعدل والا لم يستحق ما وقع بازائه من الراتب.

Answer: It is permissible to work in the legal profession if it entails defending the fixed rights in Shari'a without what has been proven by (secular man made) law, and in all cases, what he defends must be a just cause in which truth and justice are investigated, otherwise the salary from such case would not be worthy. I.e. (Haram income)

 

 

Edited by Moalfas
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The question is clear. Send it to your Marja's office if possible. (On their website). Or if you know someone 100% reliable but still someone reliable could make a mistake.

But still, I would certainly advise you to know very well what is it that you are (possibly) going to do with that what you are going to learn. Then check again if it is something you want to go in.
The subject of Western law from a Muslim's perspective can be talked about by many. My advice here too is to realize that Islam is not only OK This is Halal this is Haram. There are things that are for example, not Wajib but still, there is a certain position or state one could and should pursue.

Sometimes there is the possibility to do something really good, and this is certainly the Sunnah to do your work etc. in that way. Even if something seems unnecessary, the Prophet (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم) teaches us: do it excellently. 
Sometimes things are just OK to do like they are neutral if you will. That is also a reality. 

In this regard you can also ask or find out; is this really what I want or what I should pursuit?

Edited by Mohammed-Mehdi
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Secrets of Success

 https://www.al-Islam.org/secrets-success-jafar-subhani 

A book for the youth on how one can be successful in reaching their goals. Illustrated using examples from lives of great men from the East & West.

 
book-cover-16067.jpeg
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1 hour ago, Moalfas said:

as long as it's defending justice and truth, otherwise the income would not be Halal.

 

5 hours ago, King said:

it doesn't need to be haram if you are selective.

Very bad advice then to the young brother to have him tie one of his arms behind his back. Why not pick a proper, halaal, respectable and human profession where he can rather use both his hands and not have to be selective or be a constant target of temptations? Pick another field and leave this one alone. Its not the end of the world. Ignore these e-intellectuals. Be free, earn with both hands.

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6 hours ago, The Green Knight said:

My advice is to avoid this path. Infinitely better to starve to death than burn for all eternities in unimaginable agony.

you have not outlined as to how this differs from any other (religious) system?. In fact all you did was admit the flaw with all human behavior. I suggest a reading of this Classic book.

On the Witness Stand: Essays on Psychology and Crime by Hugo Münsterberg,

https://archive.org/details/onwitnessstande00goog/page/n7

 

side not - starving is not entertaining and hell cannot be proven. if both were to be avoided I am sure the supreme would take measures to make it improbable to inflict it upon its own. Cleary that is not the case.

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11 minutes ago, The Green Knight said:

Why not pick a proper, halaal, respectable and human profession where he can rather use both his hands and not have to be selective or be a constant target of temptations? Pick another field and leave this one alone.

Law is a wide field with many different specialties that one can explore and engage in without tainting his income. 

Temptations are a constant in every single field including Hawza so there's no point in crossing out a field that we as Muslims in the West can greatly benefit from. If the brother was to specialise in human rights law for instance, he can be of great benefit in voicing and defending our causes in international arenas.

I think you can agree that such an endeavour is very much 'Halal, respectable and human', if not Wajib Kifa'ey واجب كفائي on at least some of us. 

 

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13 hours ago, Moalfas said:

Law is a wide field with many different specialties that one can explore and engage in without tainting his income. 

Temptations are a constant in every single field including Hawza so there's no point in crossing out a field that we as Muslims in the West can greatly benefit from. If the brother was to specialise in human rights law for instance, he can be of great benefit in voicing and defending our causes in international arenas.

I think you can agree that such an endeavour is very much 'Halal, respectable and human', if not Wajib Kifa'ey واجب كفائي on at least some of us. 

 

A voice of "Human rights in the west"?? You mean he would make a difference and might stop the wars in Syria and Yemen, for instance? That is not going to happen even if you all start voicing. If laws were of any use then there would not have been so much bigotry, widespread lawlessness and all the invasions and backing out from treaties and double standards in being hostility with peaceful countries and allies with cruel dictatorships. Law exists to pacify the naive.

I insist to be sincere and give the best advice to our young brother, it is also commanded by hadith, it is his right incumbent upon us. Do you see the "313" in his user name? He has nothing to do with "law". He can rather be a teacher, teach a language, science, arts or any subject and make useful humans out of younglings, preach true Islam through his incandescent character while earning heaps of respect and living a peaceful life with his mind at ease while engineering good human beings and feel proud about his work.

Law, banking and most modern careers that did not exist in the past require a dead conscience or torment the soul with regrets. Better to choose a proper career.

Edited by The Green Knight
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On 12/30/2019 at 6:41 AM, Mohammad313Ali said:

I am thinking about pursuing a degree in law as it is my first year in college and have seen it is a career fit for me, however when I bring the topic up I am oftentimes bombarded with allegations that it is haram and is not permissible to undertake such a path. 

there is nothing Haram or impermissible in it 

 

5 hours ago, The Green Knight said:

Law, banking and most modern careers that did not exist in the past require a dead conscience or torment the soul with regrets. Better to choose a proper career.

law & Banking exists before Islam but Both of them dominated by Jews that we need some Lawyers  and Bankers  & Politicians to learn it in order to make it in favor of Muslims that are but in other fields that you mentioned  , we have many Muslims but even  their great works didn't resolve problems ofMuslims in confronting with western law & Banking system & Politics that are dominated by enemies of Muslims.

Edited by Ashvazdanghe
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1 hour ago, Ashvazdanghe said:

law & Banking exists before Islam but Both of them dominated by Jews that we need some Lawyers  and Bankers  & Politicians to learn it in order to make it in favor of Muslims that are but in other fields that you mentioned  , we have many Muslims but even  their great works didn't resolve problems ofMuslims in confronting with western law & Banking system & Politics that are dominated by enemies of Muslims.

That is a false hope. These are Jewish Zionist systems meant for them and their loyal servants, the elite. It is designed to serve them and none can beat them at their game. Those who tried are lost. Banks can not be without usury. Law can not exist unless it serves to protect the rich and powerful. Politics is the art of lying and deception for exploitation.

These things are against basic Islamic teachings. No matter how much we perfume them or hope they will remain what they are. A career is chosen to make a living and feel good while doing it. And there are so many of them which are much better options.

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Posted (edited)
17 hours ago, Moalfas said:

Some doctors require a dead concience to please pharmaceuticals and make lots of money.

Some engineers require a dead concience to cut corners, risk safety and make lots of money.

Some 'molanas' require a dead concience to serve their own personal interests under the guise of faith. 

I'm sure you agree that any field can be utilised for good or for bad.

 

Their jobs do not require them to do haraam, unlike lawyers'. Those other professionals can perfectly stay clear of serving evil and achieve great successes. If he avoids haraam as a lawyer he will not climb the ladder. Its one of the most evil professions in existence.

Whats wrong with you people?

 

Edited by The Green Knight
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3 hours ago, The Green Knight said:

Their jobs do not require them to do haraam,

everyone may does haram in his life & career , the point is that they are serving a tyrant or not that many people even some Shia scholars served tyrants or remained silent against their injustice that a lawyer is someone like them but may has greater responsibility because his job can help innocents like as Shias that were working under Taqyia as grand vizier or etc job in service of Abbasid tyrants but helped Shias by their position.

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2 hours ago, Ashvazdanghe said:

everyone may does haram in his life & career , the point is that they are serving a tyrant or not that many people even some Shia scholars served tyrants or remained silent against their injustice that a lawyer is someone like them but may has greater responsibility because his job can help innocents like as Shias that were working under Taqyia as grand vizier or etc job in service of Abbasid tyrants but helped Shias by their position.

You don't have to be Shia to exercise honesty. Christians, agnostics and Sunni also have very honest people. I have given my sincere advice. An advice can always be ignored.

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to be honest, I’m planning to study law as well, but still I’m not sure if I should study it or no. But it’s in my top list which career I’m planning to pursue.

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8 hours ago, The Green Knight said:

An advice can always be ignored.

don’t worry, it will be. 

God knows where you got all this pent up anger and jealousy towards lawyers from, but don’t go around spreading it to everyone. 

To everyone who isnt brainwashed by propaganda; just like there are doctors who artificially inseminate hundreds of women and have their kids running around calling the wrong man 'dad' and doctors who buy and sell organs, there are also bad lawyers. Theres bad everywhere. It's really simple common sense. 

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Posted (edited)
11 hours ago, 2Timeless said:

don’t worry, it will be. 

God knows where you got all this pent up anger and jealousy towards lawyers from, but don’t go around spreading it to everyone. 

To everyone who isnt brainwashed by propaganda; just like there are doctors who artificially inseminate hundreds of women and have their kids running around calling the wrong man 'dad' and doctors who buy and sell organs, there are also bad lawyers. Theres bad everywhere. It's really simple common sense. 

Little sister a scholarly debate requires logic and reasoning to convince others. I believe I have already succinctly answered the turgid parables you and others have offered. Moreover I do not entertain anger nor jealousy, it is just that I have so much experience with lawyers, judges and law enforcement that I myself became sort of a student of law myself. I already had enough first hand experience of all these things back when you first faced the dilemma of which lipstick to put on. I have even taken part in trials without hiring any lawyers. I have hired dozens of them for dozens of instances including criminal, civil, for both big and small time cases as plaintiff and as a defendant both. I have seen these lawyers and how easy it is for the opponent to approach, influence and buy your opponent's lawyer. They all carry a price tag. I have known dozens of judges, their prices, as well as dozens of police lords and how vile and deeply satanic things are with all of them and just how much they fear death and what cowards hide behind those uniforms.

So believe me when I write that it should be avoided.

Edited by The Green Knight
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@The Green Knight I appreciate that youve had bad experiences with lawyers and judges and that you do have more experience with life in general than me. But, that doesn't mean your generalisations are accurate. You met some vile lawyers, fine. But that doesnt mean all lawyers are evil. There is nothing inherently evil within the law. It's the perverse practice of it. Not everyone abuses their practice of the law. Why don’t you think about all the lawyers who put justice to terrorists, thieves, paedophiles, child abusers, frauds. There is so much good to come out of lawyers and just because there are some bad doesn't mean the same can be said of all lawyers. In fact, we should encourage young Muslim people raised in the west to partake in such professions because their religion and morals will prevent them from being 'sold' as you have witnessed. Instead of letting this field be saturated with people without the morals Islam teaches us, why not let intelligent Muslims participate and ensure that it's not all evil?

It's better not to focus on solely the negatives and also consider the positive things lawyers have done. 

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1 hour ago, 2Timeless said:

@The Green Knight I appreciate that youve had bad experiences with lawyers and judges and that you do have more experience with life in general than me. But, that doesn't mean your generalisations are accurate. You met some vile lawyers, fine. But that doesnt mean all lawyers are evil. There is nothing inherently evil within the law. It's the perverse practice of it. Not everyone abuses their practice of the law. Why don’t you think about all the lawyers who put justice to terrorists, thieves, paedophiles, child abusers, frauds. There is so much good to come out of lawyers and just because there are some bad doesn't mean the same can be said of all lawyers. In fact, we should encourage young Muslim people raised in the west to partake in such professions because their religion and morals will prevent them from being 'sold' as you have witnessed. Instead of letting this field be saturated with people without the morals Islam teaches us, why not let intelligent Muslims participate and ensure that it's not all evil?

It's better not to focus on solely the negatives and also consider the positive things lawyers have done. 

If Muslims could change how law is executed and how courts work then why it did not happen since the past 1400 years? Rather the courts and lawyers in Muslim countries are notorious instead of being exemplary.

You and other posters have written about good Muslim lawyers in the west who can / have made achievements in (a) human rights cases (b) who (exceptionally I assume?) put justice to terrorists, thieves, paedophiles, child abusers, frauds. Can you name a few of them please so I can learn about these beacons of legal hope. Just curious. Thanks.

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Posted (edited)
21 hours ago, The Green Knight said:

Can you name a few of them please so I can learn about these beacons of legal hope.

Can you name any lawyers whatsoever,  be it Muslim or Non-Muslim?

Also, no, what you mentioned was not the point of any of the posters.

Let's say that all that you have said about lawyers is true, that they are unsuccessful in helping society. Why can't a Muslim join in their ranks?

So let's say for simplicity that in the West, law is an immoral profession, and these lawyers are overwhelmingly non-Muslim. Your logic is that Muslims should avoid this profession, because Muslims are/must be good not bad.

Why are Muslims even living in the West then? (And in the East) ...If they can't join the Police which is corrupt, Law which is corrupt, Politics which is corrupt, Banks which is corrupt, etc., etc.

These are hallmarks of society, and you are essentially saying that Muslims should not contribute to the biggest parts of their society. 

The only one I would agree with you is Military, because this involves immoral warfare (life and death) in support of your enemies.

Edited by AmirioTheMuzzy
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21 hours ago, The Green Knight said:

If Muslims could change how law is executed and how courts work then why it did not happen since the past 1400 years? Rather the courts and lawyers in Muslim countries are notorious instead of being exemplary.

You and other posters have written about good Muslim lawyers in the west who can / have made achievements in (a) human rights cases (b) who (exceptionally I assume?) put justice to terrorists, thieves, paedophiles, child abusers, frauds. Can you name a few of them please so I can learn about these beacons of legal hope. Just curious. Thanks.

A) I wasnt referring to only Muslim lawyers. I said you should think about all the lawyers (Muslim or not) who brought justice to vile humans. 

B) theres corruption everywhere  especially in the Middle East. In Iraq, a friend was giving birth and started experiencing complications. She was turned away at the hospital because she was viewed as a 'lost cause' and they didn't want to stain their names with a death of a patient. She obviously wasnt because if she was brought to hospital in the west, she wouldve recieved the appropriate treatments. Will you generalise that all doctors are evil? Of course not. 

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56 minutes ago, AmirioTheMuzzy said:

These are hallmarks of society, and you are essentially saying that Muslims should not contribute to the biggest parts of their society.

If everything is fine and you can see clear, bright horizons and believe "we" can make things right again then why pray for the reappearance (I'm assuming you do, like the rest)?

Its not fine or "workable". Not at all. This is not our society or systems. Muslims move to the west precisely because we have failed, for whatever reasons. They seek sustenance and respite. Who can blame them? It is there in the west, for even now at least. But they also pay the price and most of their generations are assimilated by the foreign system into its society, becoming, in essence, Muslim no more. Look at the recent thread where a parent thinks its alright for their child to fornicate.

A-s-s-I-m-I-l-a-t-e-d. Exceptions are always there. Albeit even in the East the new generations ("Z" and on wards) have mostly lost too or are as much domesticated as the others. Like clones. Useless, aimless, predictable biological machines which exist to continue their existence as long as possible, eat sleep repeat and most never even think to make a mark upon the world. Most their males can think of, most all of them, is to have trainloads of money so they can "buy a Bugatti" sports car. Females want everything else too, as usual.

So no it is not fine at all.

These are not our societies.

Especially now, concerning this world and this life, each individual matters and each choice matters for each of us. I do not believe in hybridization, compromises. I know better. The Imam must return and only then these things can be set straight. Not by Muslim human rights lawyers, the whole ummah in unison, no one, other than him.

People should stop compromising. The Imam will not need a single lawyer. Choose careers using which you can make your mark and your contribution to pave the way for the awaited Imam and the New fantastic world. And if you do not pray for reappearance then start. It should be at the top of all other prayers.

 

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Posted (edited)
27 minutes ago, The Green Knight said:

Especially now, concerning this world and this life, each individual matters and each choice matters for each of us. I do not believe in hybridization, compromises. I know better. The Imam must return and only then these things can be set straight. Not by Muslim human rights lawyers, the whole ummah in unison, no one, other than him.

Ironic. (You're saying that) We should sit on our butts, as far as the legal system is concerned -- in the West, and as you previously said, the East too--, and wait/pray for the Imam's reappearance or through other lines of work (professions other than law)...

He will not return if we sit on our butts.

If Muslims don't get involved in law, if we don't try, then how will the Imam return? He won't.

And if it is just respite that we are looking for, then law is a great $ maker.

Edited by AmirioTheMuzzy
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