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Ibn Al-Shahid

Interesting Hadith about intelligent women

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السلام عليكم

If someone would like to translate, as I am not good at translating.

محمد بن يعقوب، عن عدة من أصحابنا، عن سهل بن زياد، عن علي بن أسباط، عن محمد بن الصباح، عن عبد الرحمن بن الحجاج، عن عبد الله بن مصعب الزبيري ـ في حديث ـ قال: سمعت أبا الحسن موسى بن جعفر (عليه السلام) يقول وقد تذاكرنا أمر النساء: أما الحرائر فلا تذاكروهنّ، ولكن خير الجواري ما كان لك فيها هوى وكان لها عقل وأدب فلست تحتاج إلى أن تأمر ولا تنهى، ودون ذلك ما كان لك فيها هوى وليس لها أدب فأنت تحتاج إلى الأمر والنهي، ودونها ما كان لك فيها هوى وليس لها عقل ولا أدب فتصبر عليها لمكان هواك فيها، وجارية ليس لك فيها هوى وليس لها عقل ولا أدب فتجعل فيما بينك وبينها البحر الاخضر.

What interested me is when the Imam said “If she has intellect and decency you do not need to order or stop her”. If a woman in a relationship is more knowledgeable than the man, does that mean everything we know about the wife’s obligation to follow the husband’s commands are nullified?

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1 hour ago, Ibn Al-Shahid said:

السلام عليكم

If someone would like to translate, as I am not good at translating.

محمد بن يعقوب، عن عدة من أصحابنا، عن سهل بن زياد، عن علي بن أسباط، عن محمد بن الصباح، عن عبد الرحمن بن الحجاج، عن عبد الله بن مصعب الزبيري ـ في حديث ـ قال: سمعت أبا الحسن موسى بن جعفر (عليه السلام) يقول وقد تذاكرنا أمر النساء: أما الحرائر فلا تذاكروهنّ، ولكن خير الجواري ما كان لك فيها هوى وكان لها عقل وأدب فلست تحتاج إلى أن تأمر ولا تنهى، ودون ذلك ما كان لك فيها هوى وليس لها أدب فأنت تحتاج إلى الأمر والنهي، ودونها ما كان لك فيها هوى وليس لها عقل ولا أدب فتصبر عليها لمكان هواك فيها، وجارية ليس لك فيها هوى وليس لها عقل ولا أدب فتجعل فيما بينك وبينها البحر الاخضر.

What interested me is when the Imam said “If she has intellect and decency you do not need to order or stop her”. If a woman in a relationship is more knowledgeable than the man, does that mean everything we know about the wife’s obligation to follow the husband’s commands are nullified?

haha yesss beat that u pesky men

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12 hours ago, Ibn Al-Shahid said:

السلام عليكم

If someone would like to translate, as I am not good at translating.

محمد بن يعقوب، عن عدة من أصحابنا، عن سهل بن زياد، عن علي بن أسباط، عن محمد بن الصباح، عن عبد الرحمن بن الحجاج، عن عبد الله بن مصعب الزبيري ـ في حديث ـ قال: سمعت أبا الحسن موسى بن جعفر (عليه السلام) يقول وقد تذاكرنا أمر النساء: أما الحرائر فلا تذاكروهنّ، ولكن خير الجواري ما كان لك فيها هوى وكان لها عقل وأدب فلست تحتاج إلى أن تأمر ولا تنهى، ودون ذلك ما كان لك فيها هوى وليس لها أدب فأنت تحتاج إلى الأمر والنهي، ودونها ما كان لك فيها هوى وليس لها عقل ولا أدب فتصبر عليها لمكان هواك فيها، وجارية ليس لك فيها هوى وليس لها عقل ولا أدب فتجعل فيما بينك وبينها البحر الاخضر.

What interested me is when the Imam said “If she has intellect and decency you do not need to order or stop her”. If a woman in a relationship is more knowledgeable than the man, does that mean everything we know about the wife’s obligation to follow the husband’s commands are nullified?

What hadith collection is it from, and what is the hadith number so we can just search it in English?

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A number of our people have narrated from Sahl ibn Ziyad from Ali ibn Asbat from Muhammad ibn al-Sabbah from ‘Abd al-Rahman ibn al-Hajjaj from ‘Abd Allah ibn Mus’ab al-Zubayriy who has said the following: “I once I heard Abu al-Hassan, Musa ibn Ja‘far, ‘Alayhi al-Salam - while we were sitting in the Masjid of the Messenger of Allah, O Allah, grant compensation to Muhammad and his family worthy of their services to Your cause - discussing issues about women and we delved in it a great deal but he (the Imam) was quiet and did not enter in our discussion not even with one word; but when we became quiet then I heard him (the Imam) saying, ‘As far as free ones are concerned you must not speak about them, however, the best slave-girl is one whom you love, who has power of reason and moral discipline so you do not need to command or prohibit. Next to this is the one whom you love but does not have moral discipline and you need to command and prohibit. Next to this is the one whom you love but who does not have the power of reason and moral discipline and you have to exercise patience because of your love. Next to this is the slave-girl whom you do not love, she does not have the power of reason or moral discipline and you keep between yourself and her, the green ocean.’ He (the narrator) has said, ‘I then held my beard and wanted to make the sound of loud flatus because of our so much delving and without reaching any meaningful point and for his comprehensive words. He (the Imam) said, ‘Hold it, if you did it I will not sit with you.’”

Al-Kafi [H9380]

Volume 5

Chapter 3

Hadith 2

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5 hours ago, Ibn Al-Shahid said:

A number of our people have narrated from Sahl ibn Ziyad from Ali ibn Asbat from Muhammad ibn al-Sabbah from ‘Abd al-Rahman ibn al-Hajjaj from ‘Abd Allah ibn Mus’ab al-Zubayriy who has said the following: “I once I heard Abu al-Hassan, Musa ibn Ja‘far, ‘Alayhi al-Salam - while we were sitting in the Masjid of the Messenger of Allah, O Allah, grant compensation to Muhammad and his family worthy of their services to Your cause - discussing issues about women and we delved in it a great deal but he (the Imam) was quiet and did not enter in our discussion not even with one word; but when we became quiet then I heard him (the Imam) saying, ‘As far as free ones are concerned you must not speak about them, however, the best slave-girl is one whom you love, who has power of reason and moral discipline so you do not need to command or prohibit. Next to this is the one whom you love but does not have moral discipline and you need to command and prohibit. Next to this is the one whom you love but who does not have the power of reason and moral discipline and you have to exercise patience because of your love. Next to this is the slave-girl whom you do not love, she does not have the power of reason or moral discipline and you keep between yourself and her, the green ocean.’ He (the narrator) has said, ‘I then held my beard and wanted to make the sound of loud flatus because of our so much delving and without reaching any meaningful point and for his comprehensive words. He (the Imam) said, ‘Hold it, if you did it I will not sit with you.’”

Al-Kafi [H9380]

Volume 5

Chapter 3

Hadith 2

These descriptions are relating to slave women, and not all women. Free women have specifically been excluded from being discussed here. Perhaps that is what needs to be looked into?

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Salam 

7 hours ago, Akbar673 said:

What hadith collection is it from, and what is the hadith number so we can just search it in English?

it considers as a weak ضعیف hadith in ' Mer'at al Uqul' v20 p 8 مرآه العقول في شرح اخبار آل الرسول that is written by Allama Majlisi about explanation of hadiths in Kafi 

ص: 8

بَابُ أَصْنَافِ النِّسَاءِ

1 عَلِیُّ بْنُ إِبْرَاهِیمَ عَنْ أَبِیهِ عَنِ النَّوْفَلِیِّ عَنِ السَّکُونِیِّ عَنْ أَبِی عَبْدِ اللَّهِ ع قَالَ قَالَ رَسُولُ اللَّهِ ص أَوْ قَالَ أَمِیرُ الْمُؤْمِنِینَ ص النِّسَاءُ أَرْبَعٌ جَامِعٌ مُجْمِعٌ وَ رَبِیعٌ مُرْبِعٌ وَ کَرْبٌ مُقْمِعٌ وَ غُلٌّ قَمِلٌ

2 عِدَّهٌ مِنْ أَصْحَابِنَا عَنْ سَهْلِ بْنِ زِیَادٍ عَنْ عَلِیِّ بْنِ أَسْبَاطٍ عَنْ مُحَمَّدِ بْنِ الصَّبَّاحِ عَنْ عَبْدِ الرَّحْمَنِ بْنِ الْحَجَّاجِ عَنْ عَبْدِ اللَّهِ بْنِ مُصْعَبٍ الزُّبَیْرِیِّ قَالَ سَمِعْتُ أَبَا الْحَسَنِ مُوسَی بْنَ جَعْفَرٍ ع وَ جَلَسْنَا إِلَیْهِ فِی مَسْجِدِ رَسُولِ اللَّهِ ص فَتَذَاکَرْنَا أَمْرَ النِّسَاءِ فَأَکْثَرْنَا الْخَوْضَ وَ هُوَ سَاکِتٌ لَا یَدْخُلُ فِی حَدِیثِنَا بِحَرْفٍ فَلَمَّا سَکَتْنَا قَالَ أَمَّا الْحَرَائِرُ فَلَا تَذْکُرُوهُنَّ وَ لَکِنْ

 

باب أصناف النساء

الحدیث الأول

: ضعیف علی المشهور.

و قال الصدوق (ره) فی کتاب الخصال: جامع مجمع أی کثیره الخیر مخصبه.

و ربیع مربع: التی فی حجرها ولد و فی بطنها آخر. و کرب مقمع أی سیئه الخلق مع زوجها. و غل قمل أی هی عند زوجها کالغل القمل، و هو غل من جلد یقع فیه القمل فیأکله فلا یتهیأ له أن یحل منه شی ء و هو مثل للعرب.

و قال الفیروزآبادی: و أتان جامع حملت أول ما تحمل. و قال الجزری: أربع الغیث: أنبت الربیع. و قال: فی حدیث ذکر النساء فقال:" منهن غل قمل" کانوا یأخذون الأسیر فیشدونه بالقد و علیه الشعر فإذا یبس قمل فی عنقه، فتجتمع علیه محنتان: الغل و القمل. ضربه مثلا للمرأه السیئه الخلق الکثیره المهر، لا یجد بعلها منها مخلصا.

 

الحدیث الثانی

: ضعیف.

https://www.ghbook.ir/index.php?name=مرآه العقول في شرح اخبار آل الرسول ( عليهم الصلاه و السلام ) جلد 20&option=com_dbook&task=readonline&book_id=1002699020&page=8&chkhashk=332B5DB708&Itemid=218&lang=fa&tmpl=component

https://www.ghbook.ir/index.php?option=com_dbook&task=viewbook&book_id=1002699020&Itemid=167&lang=fa

http://fa.wikishia.net/view/مرآة_العقول_(کتاب)

https://hadith.inoor.ir/search.aspx?SearchPhrase=دونها ما كان لك فيها هوى وليس لها عقل ولا أدب فتصبر عليها لمكان هواك فيها، وجارية ليس لك فيها هوى وليس لها عقل ولا أدب فتجعل فيما بينك وبينها البحر الاخضر&SearchType=or&SourceID=0

 

 

Edited by Ashvazdanghe

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10 hours ago, Ashvazdanghe said:

it considers as a weak ضعیف hadith in ' Mer'at al Uqul' v20 p 8 مرآه العقول في شرح اخبار آل الرسول that is written by Allama Majlisi about explanation of hadiths in Kafi 

Thanks.

I was very curious to find out the grading of it, and what collection it was from. 

We have to be very careful about posting hadith, without knowing the necessary info about it. Posting a hadith with a weak sanad doesn't do anyone any good. I personally tend to avoid hadith of a weak nature. 

 

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