Jump to content
Guests can now reply in ALL forum topics (No registration required!) ×
Guests can now reply in ALL forum topics (No registration required!)
In the Name of God بسم الله

Warnings Of Women Nahjul Balagha

Rate this topic


Recommended Posts

  • Unregistered

With respect to the sisters. I have a mother and grandmother like everyone else and I have high respect towards them all.

I have not read the entire Nahjul balagha nor am I qualified to express my views regarding it. I have just been searching for the term "woman" and copy pasted whatever warning I could find regarding women. There are probably more.

Regardless of the authenticity of the sermons/sayings, and to who it was directed and why. Do you married brothers mutah/nikah, experience what is being said in the sermons. Do you understand what the sermons are trying to say?

Could this be reason why a man is the leader of the household? why the wife has to obey husband and ask for advice and permission.

Is this why the divorce rates are going up? because we are not taking these warnings seriously and we want the equality "50-50" nonsense.

 

Please note that in some sermons/saying not the whole is copy pasted. You can look them up for yourself.

 

 

Sermon 13:

You were the army of a woman and in the command of a quadruped. When it grumbled you responded, and when it was wounded (hamstrung) you fled away. Your character is low and your pledge is broken. Your faith is hypocrisy. Your water is brackish. He who stays with you is laden with sins and he who forsakes you secures Allah's mercy. As though I see your mosque prominent, resembling the surface of a boat, while Allah has sent chastisement from above and from below it and every one who is on it is drowned.(2)

Sermon 79:

O' ye peoples! Women are deficient in Faith, deficient in shares and deficient in intelligence. As regards the deficiency in their Faith, it is their abstention from prayers and fasting during their menstrual period. As regards deficiency in their intelligence it is because the evidence of two women is equal to that of one man.As for the deficiency of their shares that is because of their share in inheritance being half of men. So beware of the evils of women. Be on your guard even from those of them who are (reportedly) good. Do not obey them even in good things so that they may not attract you to evils.

Saying 61:

61. Woman is a scorpion whose grip is sweet.

Saying 102:

102. Your society will pass through a period when cunning and crafty intriguers will be favoured by status, when profligates will be considered as well-bred, well-behaved and elegant elites of the society, when just and honest persons will be considered as weaklings, when charity will be considered as a loss to wealth and property, when support and help to each other will be considered as favour and benevolence and when prayers and worship to Allah will be taken up for the sake of show to gain popularity and higher status, at such times regimes will be run under the advice of women and the youngsters will be the rulers and counselors of the State.

Saying 123:

123. Jealousy in woman is unpardonable but in man it is a sign of his faith in religion (because Islam has permitted polygamy and prohibited polyandry).

Sermon 31:

Do not seek the advice of women, their verdicts are often immature and incorrect and their determinations are not firm. You must guard and defend them and act as a shelter to protect them from impious and injurious surroundings and infamous sights, this kind of shelter will keep them well-protected from every harm. Their contact with a vicious and sinful atmosphere (even with all the shelter that you can provide) is going to prove more harmful than being left with protection. Do not let them interfere with affairs where you cannot personally guide or protect them. Do not let them aspire for things which are beyond their capacities. They are more like decoration to humanity and are not made to rule and govern humanity. Exhibit reasonable interest in things which they desire and give importance to them, but do not let them influence your opinions and do not let them impel you to go against your sane views

Sermon 152:

Beasts are concerned with their bellies. Carnivores are concerned with assaulting others. Women are concerned with the adornments of this ignoble life and the creation of mischief herein (2). (On the other hand) believers are humble, believers are admonishers and believers are afraid (of Allah).

Edited by starlight
Edited title to 'warnings' instead of 'warning' on OP's request
Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Advanced Member

@AkhiraisReal

Brother, Ahlul Bayt (عليه السلام) actually warn us against focusing on others whilst forgetting our own faults and imperfections. 

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Advanced Member (With Brothers Forum Membership)
50 minutes ago, AkhiraisReal said:

Fatima Zahra a. s is infallible. 

The sermons and sayings doesn't apply to her.

What about Lady Khadija? 

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Advanced Member (With Brothers Forum Membership)

Lady Khadija (رضي الله عنه) is not ifallible but she received salute from Allah & archangel Jibrael . 

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Veteran Member
1 hour ago, confusedandannoyed said:

Wow another post from you about women and their shortcomings? You must really consider yourself the guardian of ALL women for you to be this concerned about Muslim women all around the world.

:salam:

Let the brother confront the reality of bachelor and then that of married man so he grows up.

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Veteran Member

To begin with, l thought No. 61 in the OP was mild, lenient . . . even tranquil in this anthropoda observation.

For example: 

16 hours ago, habib e najjaar said:

Here we go again...

tenor.gif?itemid=11128206

l laughed until my chest hurt, but l have pulled through this assassination attempt, lnshallah.

What we should do is compare and integrate Nahjul Balagha's work with Malleus Maleficarum

On page 81, in the thread "What have you watched recently?" l quoted a few lines from the historical movie, The Conqueror Worm.

https://www.atlasobscura.com/articles/witch-hunting-for-dummies-the-15th-century-witchcraft-manual 

Edited by hasanhh
Link to post
Share on other sites
19 minutes ago, hasanhh said:

To begin with, l thought No. 61 in the OP was mild, lenient . . . even tranquil in this anthropoda observation.

For example: 

l laughed until my chest hurt, but l have pulled through this assassination attempt.

lnshallah.

Bleh.. go back to your junk food fests. You must be super hungry to be reading any malicious intent in my perfectly local gif. (I am from Africa, what do you want me to post, a polar bear giphy?)

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Advanced Member
3 hours ago, confusedandannoyed said:

Wow another post from you about women and their shortcomings? You must really consider yourself the guardian of ALL women for you to be this concerned about Muslim women all around the world.

Honestly he needs to be the Muslim bachelor.

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Advanced Member

The sermons are obviously correct. Imam Ali (عليه السلام) is the Commander of the Faithful and his advice & teachings are authentic and for our own benefit.

However, if only these sermons are viewed, it can look as if it is misogynistic. To get a more complete picture you must also keep in mind other sermons where Imam Ali (عليه السلام) talks about the corruption amongst men and he describes men as greedy for the worldly riches, causing unjust bloodshed, etc. 

If someone was to analyze Nahjul Balagha fully they would observe that both sexes are admonished equally.

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Advanced Member
20 hours ago, AkhiraisReal said:

Is this why the divorce rates are going up? because we are not taking these warnings seriously and we want the equality "50-50" nonsense.

Yikes, you're lucky this is a Muslim site lol

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Veteran Member

OPINE: As someone who is infamous on S.C for his mydogynme, l think some of this thread approaches to a level of near-hate speech.

Other than the pitfalls of "gossipy" :discussion:   --which has different characteristics than cafe nonsense (something my lraqi friends find quite disgusting in Basra men, for example)-- many things said about women are social-comparatives in nature and not specific to women. Making up differences that do not necessarily be made.

 

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Unregistered
23 minutes ago, hasanhh said:

OPINE: As someone who is infamous on S.C for his mydogynme, l think some of this thread approaches to a level of near-hate speech.

Other than the pitfalls of "gossipy" :discussion:   --which has different characteristics than cafe nonsense (something my lraqi friends find quite disgusting in Basra men, for example)-- many things said about women are social-comparatives in nature and not specific to women. Making up differences that do not necessarily be made.

 

What does mydogynme mean? Do you mean misogynist? 

No I am not misogynist. I came out from a woman who carried and nurtured me for years. Who will do that other than our mother. 

 

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • 2 weeks later...
  • Veteran Member

:salam:

I think such narrations raise another question on whether they are in compliance with modern neuroscience (which albeit may change), of course, before answering this question one must understand what the narrations are truly saying in the right context which I am hoping other members can enlighten us on.

For example, the below quoted narrations might represent (please correct me if I’m wrong) an opposition to women adopting powerful leadership positions in the land. No doubt that if they are the Imam’s words then there will be a Hikmah in them. However, this link shows a study where organisations that adopted more female leaders increased their profitability, that is not to say that this is a true measure of organisational success, or that there were “materialistic“ explanations to the Imam’s words. https://hbr.org/2016/02/study-firms-with-more-women-in-the-c-suite-are-more-profitable

On 12/15/2019 at 8:11 AM, AkhiraisReal said:

regimes will be run under the advice of women

Quote

وَ رَأَيْتَ النِّسَاءَ وَ قَدْ غَلَبْنَ عَلَى الْمُلْكِ وَ غَلَبْنَ عَلَى كُلِّ أَمْرٍ لَا يُؤْتَى إِلَّا مَا لَهُنَّ فِيهِ هَوًى

And you will see the women become powerful in the land, and have power over all the affairs and does not come except what she desires

The below quotation raises questions on whether it is true that women are poorer at making decisions, indecisive, or not to be consulted. On the other hand, this study found that when under pressure, men tend to take the riskier decisions whereas women favoured benefits that they could count on. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3312579/

https://fortune.com/2016/01/05/wall-street-women-financial-crisis/

On 12/15/2019 at 8:11 AM, AkhiraisReal said:

Do not seek the advice of women, their verdicts are often immature and incorrect and their determinations are not firm.

I am not trying to create fasad rather I am trying to initiate a fruitful dialogue.

wsalam
 

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Advanced Member
On 12/28/2019 at 10:11 AM, Ejaz said:

:salam:

I think such narrations raise another question on whether they are in compliance with modern neuroscience (which albeit may change), of course, before answering this question one must understand what the narrations are truly saying in the right context which I am hoping other members can enlighten us on.

For example, the below quoted narrations might represent (please correct me if I’m wrong) an opposition to women adopting powerful leadership positions in the land. No doubt that if they are the Imam’s words then there will be a Hikmah in them. However, this link shows a study where organisations that adopted more female leaders increased their profitability, that is not to say that this is a true measure of organisational success, or that there were “materialistic“ explanations to the Imam’s words. https://hbr.org/2016/02/study-firms-with-more-women-in-the-c-suite-are-more-profitable

The below quotation raises questions on whether it is true that women are poorer at making decisions, indecisive, or not to be consulted. On the other hand, this study found that when under pressure, men tend to take the riskier decisions whereas women favoured benefits that they could count on. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3312579/

https://fortune.com/2016/01/05/wall-street-women-financial-crisis/

I am not trying to create fasad rather I am trying to initiate a fruitful dialogue.

wsalam
 

Either we accept this as symbolic language or we simply chuck it out.  
 

Rest assure however that in this day and age, from what experience tells us....  there are certain women who can be VERY capable of leading men.  
 


 

Edited by eThErEaL
Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Advanced Member (With Brothers Forum Membership)

maula Ali wisdom is incredible. But due to our social conditioning and the feminine movement it's easier to say Nahjul Balagha is not authentic. And Qur'an means use a miswaq to beat women. 

Accept the truth unlearn what we have learned. Let the Qur'an and those with knowledge guide us.

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Advanced Member
13 minutes ago, Warilla said:

maula Ali wisdom is incredible. But due to our social conditioning and the feminine movement it's easier to say Nahjul Balagha is not authentic. And Qur'an means use a miswaq to beat women. 

Accept the truth unlearn what we have learned. Let the Qur'an and those with knowledge guide us.

Where has the Prophet (S) ever uttered such things about women being deficient in faith, or intellect?  

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Advanced Member (With Brothers Forum Membership)
2 minutes ago, eThErEaL said:

Where has the Prophet (S) ever uttered such things about women being deficient in faith, or intellect?  

Where did I mention our Prophet ?

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Advanced Member
4 minutes ago, Warilla said:

Where did I mention our Prophet ?

Did the Prophet (S) teach such things from authentic Hadith?    Just would like to know if you know anything.

by the way, with all due respect but Nahjul Balagha is not authentic Hadith book in and of itself.  Perhaps a number of sayings from that book can be traced in authentic Hadith sources, but Nahjul abalagha itself is NOT a Hadith source.

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Advanced Member (With Brothers Forum Membership)
Posted (edited)

It's not a hadith book and it doesn't have chains. That doesn't mean it's not authentic.

If anything can be attributed to Imam Ali then I don't need the Prophet to be explicitly narrated by lesser men than Imam Ali.

Edited by Warilla
Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You are posting as a guest. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

×
×
  • Create New...