Jump to content
Guests can now reply in ALL forum topics (No registration required!) ×
Guests can now reply in ALL forum topics (No registration required!)
In the Name of God بسم الله
Sign in to follow this  
Mohamed1993

Labour gets destroyed - UK 2019 GE

Rate this topic

Recommended Posts

So Jeremy Corbyn and Labour got completely annihilated by the tories. Brits here what do you reckon was the reason? Was it his inconsistent position on Brexit that cost him leave voters in the North? Was it the anti-semitism rubbish? Was it that his leftist policies are not well received (weird considering he came close in 2017)? He has just announced he will step down as leader. 

Edited by Mohamed1993

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Official · 415/650 seats
326 needed for majority
 
      Votes
Party and leader   Seats Share Count
  215 42.6% 8,436,459
  143 33.5% 6,626,477
  34 4.1% 801,765
  7 10.7%

2,117,7

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The UK has been stuck in the Brexit fiasco and until it gets settled it will be difficult to focus on other priorities and drive policies forward. 

A lot of people simply wanted it to get resolved one way or another. 

Tories, and the PM in particular, were the only ones with a proactive approach and position on Brexit. 

Lib Dems wanted to scrap it altogether, Labour didn't have a transparent position and called for a second referendum and the Brexit party lost relevance once the Tories championed Brexit (I.e after Theresa May was replaced). 

'Get Brexit Done' turned out to be the right formula. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, starlight said:

Completely destroyed?Maybe. Isn't it too early to say this?

I was basing it off the exit polls, which are very accurate, but anyway tories have won the majority now confirmed. 8 seats left to declare, they've already got 358, labour at a measly 203. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, King said:

It was Brexit above all else, other issues paled in comparison, even NHS.

They did some analysis, it showed the driving factor in overturning many labour seats to tory seats was white working class voters, I assume this is more correlated with Brexit, because such people probably voted for it. But the seats weren't always in traditionally leave areas, so it's hard to tell how much was one or the other. The other thing is labour lost some ground in London because they had a very weird stance on brexit, and the lib dems which backed remain fully were able to take votes away from them. They were screwed either way, if they had backed a hard brexit, they would've struggled to win any seats in London, on the other hand if they had gone full remain, they would've def lost all those northern votes (which happened anyway). They were trying to appease two very different demographic groups, which ended both the tories and the BX party on the one hand, and the Libdems on the other stripping votes away from them.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Mohamed1993 said:

They did some analysis, it showed the driving factor in overturning many labour seats to tory seats was white working class voters, I assume this is more correlated with Brexit, because such people probably voted for it. But the seats weren't always in traditionally leave areas, so it's hard to tell how much was one or the other. The other thing is labour lost some ground in London because they had a very weird stance on brexit, and the lib dems which backed remain fully were able to take votes away from them. They were screwed either way, if they had backed a hard brexit, they would've struggled to win any seats in London, on the other hand if they had gone full remain, they would've def lost all those northern votes (which happened anyway). They were trying to appease two very different demographic groups, which ended both the tories and the BX party on the one hand, and the Libdems on the other stripping votes away from them.

Yeah, makes sense.  UK could have had a decent PM for a change but I guess it wasn't meant to be.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Everyone knew this election was a referendum on Brexit.

Labour has itself to blame for the spectacular defeat in decades. You can't really be 'neutral' on the most important thing in decades and hope to win votes from an electorate exhausted from the parliamentary and media circus that has gone on for three years.

Even the NHS didn't matter to the working class. 

The tragedy is that Corbyn was anti-EU for a long time. He only had to get his house in order and connect with traditional working class Labour voters who had also voted Brexit. Labour gave the away to the Tories on a platter.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 minutes ago, Marbles said:

Everyone knew this election was a referendum on Brexit.

Labour has itself to blame for the spectacular defeat in decades. You can't really be 'neutral' on the most important thing in decades and hope to win votes from an electorate exhausted from the parliamentary and media circus that has gone on for three years.

Even the NHS didn't matter to the working class. 

The tragedy is that Corbyn was anti-EU for a long time. He only had to get his house in order and connect with traditional working class Labour voters who had also voted Brexit. Labour gave the away to the Tories on a platter.

His party forced him to cave and he did, he had the right position initially, but then he flipped. 

But I don't know if this played a role if any at all, the media smears against him were relentless, the anti-semitic allegations against him, his statements striking more of a re-conciliatory tone with the IRA/Hamas/Hezbollah, calling the death of Bin Laden a tragedy (because he wasn't tried and just killed). Nevermind the tories who were aiding warcrimes in Yemen etc. but those were dismissed and not regarded as important, because its standard imperial British FP. Makes you wonder if jingoism, which sadly the human species falls for quite often had a role here. He was deeply unpopular. It couldn't have been his policies, because he had the same manifesto in 2017. But the smearing became relentless since, especially on the anti-semitism stuff.  

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Mohamed1993 said:

His party forced him to cave and he did, he had the right position initially, but then he flipped. 

Yes, he let himself be manipulated by the formerly Blairite centrist clique.

Quote

But I don't know if this played a role if any at all, the media smears against him were relentless, the anti-semitic allegations against him, his statements striking more of a re-conciliatory tone with the IRA/Hamas/Hezbollah, calling the death of Bin Laden a tragedy (because he wasn't tried and just killed). Nevermind the tories who were aiding warcrimes in Yemen etc. but those were dismissed and not regarded as important, because its standard imperial British FP. Makes you wonder if jingoism, which sadly the human species falls for quite often had a role here. He was deeply unpopular. It couldn't have been his policies, because he had the same manifesto in 2017. But the smearing became relentless since, especially on the anti-semitism stuff.  

This certainly played a role. How significant I can't say. But here's an interesting observation.

FB_IMG_1576226715869.jpg.76ab7e2de6d3157edf486abb43be1a9f.jpg

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Mohamed1993 said:

His party forced him to cave and he did, he had the right position initially, but then he flipped. 

He'd come under a lot of pressure to throw in his lot with the remain group and ultimately he did and paid the price.

Ultimately the Labour voters were more evenly split on Brexit compared to the Tories.

My concern is that working class people who have deserted Labour, once their economic situation becomes worse due to Brexit may turn even further to the right.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, Haji 2003 said:

He'd come under a lot of pressure to throw in his lot with the remain group and ultimately he did and paid the price.

Ultimately the Labour voters were more evenly split on Brexit compared to the Tories.

My concern is that working class people who have deserted Labour, once their economic situation becomes worse due to Brexit may turn even further to the right.

The world seems to be turning right everywhere you look; US, Britain, Australia, India, Brazil, etc. Jingoism and National Security seem to be winning elections even if the poor get shafted more and more. It seems to be a moral problem more than anything.

And let's face it, the Brits would never accept an anti-imperialist leader, for a nation with an imperial past it has never come to terms with, smear campaigns will work, so painting Corbyn as an IRA/Hamas sympathizer and going on Press TV is enough to convince the electorate that he would destroy Britain's security etc. One thing is for sure, the British press is awful, no better than the American Press. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, Mohamed1993 said:

The world seems to be turning

Fifty years ago, it was 'common knowledge' that most people could not envision a World outside their hometown --or larger metropolitan neighborhood.

Now, after five decades of mass media, it is their home country.

What most people do not have is any real, practical sense of 'global', so it follows that xenophobic impulses predominate.

While we on S.C have more centers of reference than the average person. To wit, Paki-lndi, UK, US, lraq, lRI and so on.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

When l watched BBCAmerica earlier tonight, if l heard correctly, the reporter said Labour knew it was "bad" when Northumbrian results "came in early" for the Tories and this area had been solid for Labour since 1950.

In this report -as also DeutscheWelle said yesterday- the polling results were "too close to call".

Edited by hasanhh
polling

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
39 minutes ago, Sumerian said:

In a sense this was like the Australian election, except instead of Brexit, it was climate change and closure of coal mines - meaning it became a one issue campaign for the winning party.

What's weird is people reject left-wing economic policies, claiming basically people that want to expand public services are socialist loonies, which they aren't really, Corbyn just advocated going back to what Labour was before Thatcher, but one of the major aspects of leftist politics, economic nationalism seems to be popular. Capitalism isn't against immigration it just seeks to attract the most productive workers. I guess it's more of give me the job, the higher wages etc. and don't take my money away to fund public services, because the people that rely on them are lazy, at the same time close the borders to keep those people from taking away my job even if I am lazier than they are and they can do a better job. 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 hours ago, Muhammed Ali said:

Even people using food banks didn't want to vote for Corbyn :worried: People are not smart.

 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/election-2019-50663879/general-election-2019-how-do-grimsby-s-food-bank-users-want-to-vote

Culture (White Britain First) over economics maybe. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Labour still won the majority in: 

Manchester, Liverpool, Bradford, Lancaster, Leeds, Huddersfield, Sheffield, Doncaster, Hull, Chesterfield, York Central, Black Burn, Preston, Luton, Greater London (not central London or SW London), Reading, Oxford East, Bristol, Swansea, Cardiff (alongside other constituencies in South Wales) Sunderland, New Castle, Durham City and Durham North, Exeter, Plymouth Etc. Taken from the BBC website... 

These are the main cities/constituencies of England and a few from Wales and they must have the greatest populations, I have no idea how Conservative won, generally constituencies in which the majority voted for Conservative are basically unheard of. I've never heard of places like "Penrith" or "Skipton & Ripon" or "Devizes" and no, these are not made up names, these are constituencies which the majority voted conservative.. 

Edited by Vindemiatrix

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
9 hours ago, Muhammed Ali said:

Even people using food banks didn't want to vote for Corbyn :worried: People are not smart.

From the link you posted. This person is in a very difficult financial position. And who will he vote for? The billionaire funded Boris Johnson, who'll cut taxes for the rich. :confused:

197831860_Screenshot2019-12-14at08_11_19.png.ab22937af6666a97990527bd94714431.png

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
34 minutes ago, Vindemiatrix said:

Labour still won the majority in: 

Manchester, Liverpool, Bradford, Lancaster, Leeds, Huddersfield, Sheffield, Doncaster, Hull, Chesterfield, York Central, Black Burn, Preston, Luton, Greater London (not central London or SW London), Reading, Oxford East, Bristol, Swansea, Cardiff (alongside other constituencies) Sunderland, New Castle, Durham, Exeter, Plymouth Etc. Taken from the BBC website... 

These are the main cities/constituencies of England so they must have the greatest populations, I have no idea how Conservative won, generally constituencies in which the majority voted for Conservative are basically unheard of. I've never heard of places like "Penrith" or "Skipton & Ripon" or "Devizes" and no, these are not made up names, these are constituencies which the majority voted conservative.. 

You sure they won Durham? That was one of the seats that flipped they said.

Another argument I was reading which is an important one is the Labour party's identity is not clear anymore. It is split along many dimensions. The split between multicultural remainers in the metropolitan areas like London and the working class heartlands in the North on the one hand, and also what kind of economic platform it represents, is it momentum or is it going back to the centrism of the Blair era with more neoliberal policies? The party is very divided and the people that tried to undermine Corbyn through the whole anti-semitism rubbish like Luciana Berger and resigned did no favours to the party. Incidentally she lost her seat, she joined the Lib Dems and lost to the Tories. All the defectors from Labour that wanted to remain defected and went to the Lib Dems, they all lost their seats. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
6 minutes ago, Mohamed1993 said:

You sure they won Durham? That was one of the seats that flipped they said.

Sorry I meant:

*Durham City and Durham North

I'll just edit that now... 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Vindemiatrix said:

Labour still won the majority in: 

Manchester, Liverpool, Bradford, Lancaster, Leeds, Huddersfield, Sheffield, Doncaster, Hull, Chesterfield, York Central, Black Burn, Preston, Luton, Greater London (not central London or SW London), Reading, Oxford East, Bristol, Swansea, Cardiff (alongside other constituencies in South Wales) Sunderland, New Castle, Durham City and Durham North, Exeter, Plymouth Etc. Taken from the BBC website... 

These are the main cities/constituencies of England and a few from Wales and they must have the greatest populations, I have no idea how Conservative won, generally constituencies in which the majority voted for Conservative are basically unheard of. I've never heard of places like "Penrith" or "Skipton & Ripon" or "Devizes" and no, these are not made up names, these are constituencies which the majority voted conservative.. 

The UK system is every constituency is equal, no matter the size of it. This isn't a popular vote, it is about who gets the most seats. Even still Boris Johnson got more votes than Corbyn.

5 hours ago, Mohamed1993 said:

What's weird is people reject left-wing economic policies, claiming basically people that want to expand public services are socialist loonies, which they aren't really, Corbyn just advocated going back to what Labour was before Thatcher, but one of the major aspects of leftist politics, economic nationalism seems to be popular. Capitalism isn't against immigration it just seeks to attract the most productive workers. I guess it's more of give me the job, the higher wages etc. and don't take my money away to fund public services, because the people that rely on them are lazy, at the same time close the borders to keep those people from taking away my job even if I am lazier than they are and they can do a better job. 

 

The "new right" in the UK and the US are not only conservative economically, but they are also nationalists and are anti-immigration and anti-globalist/pro-sovereignty. This "economic nationalism" (as you put it) is very appealing to the traditional working class.

An issue such as Brexit really split the traditional labour voters, as there are the progressives who thought Brexit is a racist anti-immigrant position, and there are the centrists/internationalists who advocate intergration with the EU, on the other side there were also labour voters who believed the EU and the migrants it brings are a danger on their job and that those in Brussels are in their right, another class of elite imposing their power on them.

Brexit was neither "right" or "left", but people on both sides of the spectrum either supported it or were against it for different reasons.

Just like climate change, it has also split traditional leftist voters.

Corbyn tried to play the two sides and failed. Boris put all his hopes in Brexit, and it delivered for him.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 minutes ago, Sumerian said:

The "new right" in the UK and the US are not only conservative economically, but they are also nationalists and are anti-immigration and anti-globalist/pro-sovereignty. This "economic nationalism" (as you put it) is very appealing to the traditional working class.

An issue such as Brexit really split the traditional labour voters, as there are the progressives who thought Brexit is a racist anti-immigrant position, and there are the centrists/internationalists who advocate intergration with the EU, on the other side there were also labour voters who believed the EU and the migrants it brings are a danger on their job and that those in Brussels are in their right, another class of elite imposing their power on them.

Brexit was neither "right" or "left", but people on both sides of the spectrum either supported it or were against it for different reasons.

Just like climate change, it has also split traditional leftist voters.

Corbyn tried to play the two sides and failed. Boris put all his hopes in Brexit, and it delivered for him.

I guess the problem can be almost universal, the right is largely united, the left is not.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I agree with brother @Sumerian

In most countries the public is faced with the steady and stable left (continuity) vs the more vocal and proactive right.

Right wing parties propose more proactive solutions to the topics that worry people the most (regardless of whether these solutions are realistic or not) while the left tends to take a more gradual approach (which might sometimes be more realistic but doesn't grab the attention of the public).

While people may recognize the importance of environmental and humanitarian concerns (left wing focus), these will often be secondary to employment and security (right wing focus). 

With Trump promising to shut down foreign factories and bring them home, Boris Johnson wrapping up Brexit and Modi portraying himself as the national defence champion, half the battle was already won. 

Furthermore, these personalities, as much as they are mocked, still show a certain resilience and confidence. Their left counterparts have not been able to match this. The Democrats still have no idea who their best candidate would be, Labour don't have any credible successors to Corbyn and the Congress party leadership is considered to be a joke all across the country. 

As long as these parties don't come up with a strategy that resonates with the general public, it will not only be the next election they lose but most likely several more to follow. 

Some have questioned the sanity of the public for allowing the likes of Trump, Johnson and Modi to govern. I question the competence of their opposition. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Mohamed1993 said:

I guess the problem can be almost universal, the right is largely united, the left is not.

The "opposition" to Trump and Boris within the right is very weak, because of the popularity of their personality (Trump) or their policies (Brexit). The conservatives were much more united on leaving the EU, labour was split roughly between remain and leave and the opposition to Corbyn within his own party (centrists) was strong as well.

All the polling showed there was no way he could have won by labour seats alone, he was probably hoping for a hung parliament where the conservatives don't have a mandate to pass whatever they want, or if he was really ambitious enough maybe a coalition government with other parties.

Boris had this in the bag since day one. He campaigned very well, in labour heartlands, just like Trump campaigned in the American rustbelt.

Edited by Sumerian

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, Vindemiatrix said:

I have no idea how Conservative won, generally constituencies in which the majority voted for Conservative are basically unheard of. I've never heard of places like "Penrith" or "Skipton & Ripon" or "Devizes" and no, these are not made up names, these are constituencies which the majority voted conservative.. 

You are not the only one.

Quote

Gove tried his best to be statesmanlike as he addressed the nation. Tricky for someone whose insincerity is now second nature. He didn’t make it any easier by making vague promises to give more money to towns he clearly hadn’t heard of before yesterday.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/dec/13/classic-dom-clicks-his-fingers-and-the-celebrations-begin

 

2 hours ago, Mohamed1993 said:

All the defectors from Labour that wanted to remain defected and went to the Lib Dems, they all lost their seats. 

:clap:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 hours ago, Sumerian said:

The UK system is every constituency is equal, no matter the size of it. This isn't a popular vote, it is about who gets the most seats. Even still Boris Johnson got more votes than Corbyn.

Yeah, but those constituencies have a high population. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You are posting as a guest. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Sign in to follow this  

×
×
  • Create New...