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eThErEaL

Sexual Intercourse During Full Moon

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Salamun Alaykum Dear Brothers and Sisters,

I need someone who is familiar with the strength and weakness of ahadith to let know about the following which I found online:

Imam Ja’ffar al-Saadiq (عليه السلام) said “Do not have sexual intercourse on the first, middle, and the last day of the (lunar) month, for if one does that he should expect the miscarriage of the child, and if not, it is feared that the child would be mad. Do you not see that the mad person mostly suffers from fits on the first, middle, and last day of the (lunar) month?”

Where is this found?  
 

For those who can help with this, thanking you in advance.

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Guest Gret

I'll let a more knowledgable brother or sister grade it, but even if it is reliable by chain, it may still have been fabricated and reverse engineered back to the Imams. We have many questionable narrations which go against established observable fact.

"Three studies carried out between 1959 and 1973 reported a 1 percent increase in births in New York following a full Moon.[citation needed] However, multiple studies have found no connection between birth rate and lunar phases. A 1957 analysis of 9,551 births in Danville, Pennsylvania, found no correlation between birth rate and the phase of the Moon.[10] Records of 11,961 live births and 8,142 natural births (not induced by drugs or cesarean section) over a 4-year period (1974–1978) at the UCLA hospital did not correlate in any way with the cycle of lunar phases.[11] Analysis of 3,706 spontaneous births (excluding births resulting from induced labor) in 1994 showed no correlation with lunar phase.[12] The distribution of 167,956 spontaneous vaginal deliveries, at 37 to 40 weeks gestation, in Phoenix, Arizona, between 1995 and 2000, showed no relationship with lunar phase.[13] Analysis of 564,039 births (1997 to 2001) in North Carolina showed no predictable influence of the lunar cycle on deliveries or complications.[14] Analysis of 6,725 deliveries (2000 to 2006) in Hannover revealed no significant correlation of birth rate to lunar phases.[15] A 2001 analysis of 70,000,000 birth records from the National Center for Health Statistics revealed no correlation between birth rate and lunar phase.[16] An extensive review of 21 studies from seven different countries showed that the majority of studies reported no relationship to lunar phase, and that the positive studies were inconsistent with each other.[2] A review of six additional studies from five different countries similarly showed no evidence of relationship between birth rate and lunar phase.[17]"

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lunar_effect

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On 12/12/2019 at 10:52 AM, Guest Gret said:

I'll let a more knowledgable brother or sister grade it, but even if it is reliable by chain, it may still have been fabricated and reverse engineered back to the Imams. We have many questionable narrations which go against established observable fact.

"Three studies carried out between 1959 and 1973 reported a 1 percent increase in births in New York following a full Moon.[citation needed] However, multiple studies have found no connection between birth rate and lunar phases. A 1957 analysis of 9,551 births in Danville, Pennsylvania, found no correlation between birth rate and the phase of the Moon.[10] Records of 11,961 live births and 8,142 natural births (not induced by drugs or cesarean section) over a 4-year period (1974–1978) at the UCLA hospital did not correlate in any way with the cycle of lunar phases.[11] Analysis of 3,706 spontaneous births (excluding births resulting from induced labor) in 1994 showed no correlation with lunar phase.[12] The distribution of 167,956 spontaneous vaginal deliveries, at 37 to 40 weeks gestation, in Phoenix, Arizona, between 1995 and 2000, showed no relationship with lunar phase.[13] Analysis of 564,039 births (1997 to 2001) in North Carolina showed no predictable influence of the lunar cycle on deliveries or complications.[14] Analysis of 6,725 deliveries (2000 to 2006) in Hannover revealed no significant correlation of birth rate to lunar phases.[15] A 2001 analysis of 70,000,000 birth records from the National Center for Health Statistics revealed no correlation between birth rate and lunar phase.[16] An extensive review of 21 studies from seven different countries showed that the majority of studies reported no relationship to lunar phase, and that the positive studies were inconsistent with each other.[2] A review of six additional studies from five different countries similarly showed no evidence of relationship between birth rate and lunar phase.[17]"

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lunar_effect

But how many of those are mad? Or have “episodes” of being mad?  

was hitler conceived under a full moon?
Maybe psychotic people were conceived under a full moon

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On 12/12/2019 at 10:05 AM, eThErEaL said:

Where is this found?  

Salam. Not sure which website you were reading. There are times for sexual intercourse with your wife: Obligatory wajib times, recommended Mustaĥab times, undesirable or discouraged Makrūh times, and Harām times.

The timing of sexual intercourse can often coincide with the conception of a baby, so it is recommended that men be cautious when they approach their wife.  

See the book called From Marriage to Parenthood The Heavenly PathGet PDF

Obligatory times: https://www.al-Islam.org/marriage-parenthood-heavenly-path/chapter-2-sexual-etiquette#obligatory-times

Recommended times: https://www.al-Islam.org/marriage-parenthood-heavenly-path/chapter-2-sexual-etiquette#mustaĥab-recommended-times

Haram times: https://www.al-Islam.org/marriage-parenthood-heavenly-path/chapter-2-sexual-etiquette#times-not-recommended

Undesirable times: https://www.al-Islam.org/marriage-parenthood-heavenly-path/chapter-2-sexual-etiquette#makrūh-undesirable-times

Recommended times: https://www.al-Islam.org/marriage-parenthood-heavenly-path/chapter-5-conception#recommended-times

Times not recommended: https://www.al-Islam.org/marriage-parenthood-heavenly-path/chapter-5-conception#times-not-recommended

Haram times: https://www.al-Islam.org/marriage-parenthood-heavenly-path/chapter-5-conception#harām-times

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47 minutes ago, Follower of Ahlul Bayt said:

Do you have a reference or the Arabic for this hadith?

Bit hard to find the authenticity without a reference

Did you click on the links that @ShiaChat Mod posted above? Check the footnotes.

6. On the first of the month (with the exception of the 1st of Ramaďān, where it is Mustaĥab), the middle of the month (full moon) and the end of the month (when there is no moon), as it will become a cause of insanity, black leprosy and paralysis of the mother and child.61 

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8 hours ago, Ibn Al-Shahid said:

The full moon is when Jinn are active. There are many hadiths about certain days when you shouldn’t have sex because the Jinn are more active.

How do jinn affect human defects from birth? I have struggled to understand the mechanism by which they do so.

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23 hours ago, ShiaChat Mod said:

Salam. Not sure which website you were reading. There are times for sexual intercourse with your wife: Obligatory wajib times, recommended Mustaĥab times, undesirable or discouraged Makrūh times, and Harām times.

The timing of sexual intercourse can often coincide with the conception of a baby, so it is recommended that men be cautious when they approach their wife.  

See the book called From Marriage to Parenthood The Heavenly PathGet PDF

Obligatory times: https://www.al-Islam.org/marriage-parenthood-heavenly-path/chapter-2-sexual-etiquette#obligatory-times

Recommended times: https://www.al-Islam.org/marriage-parenthood-heavenly-path/chapter-2-sexual-etiquette#mustaĥab-recommended-times

Haram times: https://www.al-Islam.org/marriage-parenthood-heavenly-path/chapter-2-sexual-etiquette#times-not-recommended

Undesirable times: https://www.al-Islam.org/marriage-parenthood-heavenly-path/chapter-2-sexual-etiquette#makrūh-undesirable-times

Recommended times: https://www.al-Islam.org/marriage-parenthood-heavenly-path/chapter-5-conception#recommended-times

Times not recommended: https://www.al-Islam.org/marriage-parenthood-heavenly-path/chapter-5-conception#times-not-recommended

Haram times: https://www.al-Islam.org/marriage-parenthood-heavenly-path/chapter-5-conception#harām-times

Got it from “Shiavault.com”

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9 hours ago, Follower of Ahlul Bayt said:

Do you have a reference or the Arabic for this hadith?

Bit hard to find the authenticity without a reference

I got it from Shiavault.com

hopefully one can ask some knowledgeable scholar whether or not the Hadith is reliable.  

many couples in Shia tradition are advised not have sexual intercourse in a full moon night.  But in Sunni tradition, this is “almost” non existent.  Sunnis for the most part have never heard of anything like this. 
 

anyway....

was anyone here conceived under a full moon?  Maybe they can tell us if  have symptoms of madness.  

Edited by eThErEaL

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11 hours ago, 3wliya_maryam said:

I’m sorry but how does a moon affect sex

Imagine telling people 1400 years ago that moon in the sky affects tides of the ocean. They would have laughed hard because they wouldn't comprehend the invisible relation (gravity) between moon and ocean tides. Now, everyone believes in this scientific phenomenon.

Similarly, there are many things in Qur'an and Ahadith in the form of command and Mustahabbat that we do not comprehend but have some reason behind it. Your question would follow similar principle. 

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1 hour ago, eThErEaL said:

was anyone here conceived under a full moon?  Maybe they can tell us if  have symptoms of madness.  

Right, there might be someone who remembers what night they were conceived.. before being born. 

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10 hours ago, Sirius_Bright said:

Right, there might be someone who remembers what night they were conceived.. before being born. .  

Thanks for your sarcasm.  

It is more so that It is very rare that people are told when they were conceived.  Mainly because most of the parents themselves don’t know and don’t care when they had sexual intercourse (and I can imagine how awkward it would be to tell your son or daughter about it).  

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14 hours ago, Northwest said:

How do jinn affect human defects from birth? I have struggled to understand the mechanism by which they do so.

Probably through energy exchange (مس), but I do not have any factual information about how. What I do know is that the Imams spoke against conception during certain times of the month, day and location. However, I cannot be certain, I'm sorry. 

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20 hours ago, 3wliya_maryam said:

I’m sorry but how does a moon affect sex

Shhh, don’t spoil this. Do you not see this quality content. 

I think jinns avoid reproduction during a full sun, because humans are more active around that time, therefore our energy would disrupt there energy flow causing, enabling the risk of creating crazy jinns.

 

 

Edited by حسين

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Guest Banglu

Rules are rules, Imam said what Imam said, our job is to submit to their instructions. This is called Islam, otherwise I never understood why we wipe from top to bottom when we wash our arms in wudhu, or why the ruku are one, while sujood two, or who do we need to circle 7 times, and why not 8 times. 

But we submit. 

I asked this question from an ‘alim, he suggested to do whatever you want to do with each other, just don’t do it for making babies during those times. There are other days and times too where one ought not to do it for making babies. 

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On 12/14/2019 at 2:01 AM, حسين said:

full sun

isn't the sun always full?

This has to do with 'time' & 'moments' during those times being advisable or not.

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The study that had been quoted by 'Guest Gret' from Wikipedia refers to births and lunar phases, not conception times. 

The narrations we have from the Prophet saw and Ahlul Bayt (عليه السلام) of the best times to procreate and when not to are ample. Some of which have been shared by @ShiaChat Mod

The narrations that I'm aware of regarding 'Jinn' as alluded to by @Ibn Al-Shahid and are referred to as مس do not specify procreative acts; rather, everyday acts such as sleeping during specified times when it's Makrooh, or urinating whilst upright or into moving water ماء جاري etc

It is however important to note that even that Qur'an has expressly mentioned Iblees (not Jinn) sharing humans their wealth and children.

:bismillah:

وَشَارِكْهُمْ فِي الأَمْوَالِ وَالأَولادِ

'and become a partner in their wealth and their children'

Al Isra 64

Our Tafaseer from The Prophet saw and Ahlul Bayt (عليه السلام) of this verse correlate with the narrations that advise on the best times to procreate and on the importance of keeping the Thikr of Allah Ta'ala at all times for every desire enjoyed without Allah Ta'ala will be enjoyed with Ibless. 

The reason this knowledge is not found in other traditions as suggested by @eThErEaL is because the others have not sought it from the source. 

We, as lovers of Ahlul Bayt (عليه السلام) مُحِبّينْ أهل البيت try to focus on sourcing our knowledge from Mohammed and Aali Mohammed saw. They are the source. Not individuals born 200ish years after Hijra such as Bukhari and Muslim. 

 

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@Moalfas السلام عليكم

Brother, here is one of the Ahadith. There are plenty more if you would like.

محمد بن يعقوب، عن عدة من أصحابنا، عن أحمد بن محمد بن خالد عن أبيه، عمن ذكره، عن أبي الحسن موسى (عليه السلام): عن أبيه، عن جدّه قال: فيما أوصى به رسول الله (صلى الله عليه وآله) عليا (عليه السلام) قال: يا علي، لا تجامع أهلك في أول ليلة من الهلال ولا في ليلة النصف ولا في آخر ليلة فإنّه يتخوف على ولد من يفعل ذلك الخبل فقال علي (عليه السلام): ولم ذاك يا رسول الله؟ (صلى الله عليه وآله)؟ فقال: ان الجن يكثرون غشيان نسائهم في أول ليلة من الهلال وليلة النصف وفي آخر ليلة أما رايت المجنون يصرع في أول الشهر وفي وسطه وفي آخره.
ورواه الشيخ بإسناده عن محمد بن يعقوب، مثله (1).

المصادر

الكافي 5: 499 | 3.

edit:

this one is interesting as well.

وفي (الخصال) بإسناده عن علي (عليه السلام) في حديث الاربعمائة قال: إذا أراد أحدكم ان يأتي أهله فليتوق أول الاهلة وأنصاف الشهور فان الشيطان يطلب الولد في هذين الوقتين والشياطين يطلبون الشرك فيهما فيجيئون ويخبلون (1).

المصادر

الخصال: 637.

الهوامش

1- في المصدر: يحبلون
Edited by Ibn Al-Shahid

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On 12/14/2019 at 2:37 AM, Guest Banglu said:

Rules are rules, Imam said what Imam said, our job is to submit to their instructions. This is called Islam, otherwise I never understood why we wipe from top to bottom when we wash our arms in wudhu, or why the ruku are one, while sujood two, or who do we need to circle 7 times, and why not 8 times. 

But we submit. 

I asked this question from an ‘alim, he suggested to do whatever you want to do with each other, just don’t do it for making babies during those times. There are other days and times too where one ought not to do it for making babies. 

Isn’t this kind of logic a double-edged sword? To submit to something without being given an explanation (as to the “why,” that is, science) or choice? Because the many rules and ordinances of Islam, even if well-founded, may seem random and/or alien, they are more difficult to remember, especially for those unfortunate to have not been raised as Muslims, that is, to have been born in a non-Muslim culture. For example, one, especially if raised as a non-Muslim, may have committed unpardonable or irreversible sins at a young age, that is, prior to age seven, before reverting to Islam later on in life. This is particularly true if one’s parents never taught one not to engage in certain behaviours or otherwise restrained one from engaging in them. Otherwise, if one’s fitrah, being innate, were sufficient and contained moral knowledge in itself, then one would not need parents to teach the finer points of life. And if one has a disability, then, say, multitasking becomes difficult, especially when remembering to repeat certain duas in a certain way, pronunciation, and number of times. (For example, I have high-functioning autism and have trouble counting the number of times I repeat a phrase.) Of course, one is expected and obligated to seek religion on one’s own, but not everyone has the same level of awareness. And then there is the problem of psychopathy, people who are seemingly born without a moral conscience. Obviously, (the) God is utterly unaccountable to human perceptions of fairness, so He can choose whether to condemn someone to Hell from birth, or to deny him upbringing in a Muslim background, but then this leads to paralysing fear among prospective reverts who are unable to be diligent Muslims, owing to improper upbringing and lack of guidance from their first seven years. There are also many paradoxes in Islam, such as that (the) God is All-Sufficient and Needless, yet still, being Omniscient, created man to “test” him via moral laws that are meant exclusively for man’s own spiritual betterment, whether man likes to follow the moral laws or not. So we do not know the divine reason for our being created, much less why the All-Sufficient needs obedience, yet are expected to obey, in the final analysis, on the basis of faith, though with the aid of reason.

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@Ibn Al-Shahid

Thank you for sharing the above narrations. I had not intended to discred your notion and in fact the narrations you've shared correlate with what has been said as well as the verse Al Isra /64.

I wanted to point out a distinction between Iblees/Shayateen (his helpers) and regular 'Jinn' in our understanding. 

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18 minutes ago, Moalfas said:

@Ibn Al-Shahid

Thank you for sharing the above narrations. I had not intended to discred your notion and in fact the narrations you've shared correlate with what has been said as well as the verse Al Isra /64.

I wanted to point out a distinction between Iblees/Shayateen (his helpers) and regular 'Jinn' in our understanding. 

Oh, no, brother. I’m with you 100%. I just wanted to post the ahadith incase someone more knowledgeable can talk to us about them, as I have read these quite a long time ago.

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@Ibn Al-Shahid

The ample narrations we have alongside the Tafaseer of the Prophet saw and Ahlul Bayt (عليه السلام) we have give a clear picture. The confusion can arise from the terminology as 'Jinn' can be the regular Jinn that live amongst us in a different realm whilst مردة الجن 'tyrannical Jinn' would be the Shayateen and Iblees's helpers.

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نتیجه تصویری برای قمر در عقرب  نتیجه تصویری برای قمر در عقرب

Qamar dar Aqrab & Friday the 13th; Astrology & Social Media in Marriage - Maulana Syed Rizvi

1. Astronomy, Astrology, & Destiny in Islam - Maulana Syed Muhammad Rizvi

 

2. Astronomy, Astrology, & Destiny in Islam - Maulana Syed Muhammad Rizvi

 

Edited by Ashvazdanghe

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1 hour ago, Northwest said:

Isn’t this kind of logic a double-edged sword? To submit to something without being given an explanation (as to the “why,” that is, science) or choice? Because the many rules and ordinances of Islam, even if well-founded, may seem random and/or alien, they are more difficult to remember, especially for those unfortunate to have not been raised as Muslims, that is, to have been born in a non-Muslim culture. For example, one, especially if raised as a non-Muslim, may have committed unpardonable or irreversible sins at a young age, that is, prior to age seven, before reverting to Islam later on in life. This is particularly true if one’s parents never taught one not to engage in certain behaviours or otherwise restrained one from engaging in them. Otherwise, if one’s fitrah, being innate, were sufficient and contained moral knowledge in itself, then one would not need parents to teach the finer points of life. And if one has a disability, then, say, multitasking becomes difficult, especially when remembering to repeat certain duas in a certain way, pronunciation, and number of times. (For example, I have high-functioning autism and have trouble counting the number of times I repeat a phrase.) Of course, one is expected and obligated to seek religion on one’s own, but not everyone has the same level of awareness. And then there is the problem of psychopathy, people who are seemingly born without a moral conscience. Obviously, (the) God is utterly unaccountable to human perceptions of fairness, so He can choose whether to condemn someone to Hell from birth, or to deny him upbringing in a Muslim background, but then this leads to paralysing fear among prospective reverts who are unable to be diligent Muslims, owing to improper upbringing and lack of guidance from their first seven years. There are also many paradoxes in Islam, such as that (the) God is All-Sufficient and Needless, yet still, being Omniscient, created man to “test” him via moral laws that are meant exclusively for man’s own spiritual betterment, whether man likes to follow the moral laws or not. So we do not know the divine reason for our being created, much less why the All-Sufficient needs obedience, yet are expected to obey, in the final analysis, on the basis of faith, though with the aid of reason.

You raise some very important points that I fear going into here will derail the thread and OP. 

Could you post it as a new thread? That way one can give it the reuqired attention. 

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5 hours ago, Ibn Al-Shahid said:

@Moalfas السلام عليكم

Brother, here is one of the Ahadith. There are plenty more if you would like.

محمد بن يعقوب، عن عدة من أصحابنا، عن أحمد بن محمد بن خالد عن أبيه، عمن ذكره، عن أبي الحسن موسى (عليه السلام): عن أبيه، عن جدّه قال: فيما أوصى به رسول الله (صلى الله عليه وآله) عليا (عليه السلام) قال: يا علي، لا تجامع أهلك في أول ليلة من الهلال ولا في ليلة النصف ولا في آخر ليلة فإنّه يتخوف على ولد من يفعل ذلك الخبل فقال علي (عليه السلام): ولم ذاك يا رسول الله؟ (صلى الله عليه وآله)؟ فقال: ان الجن يكثرون غشيان نسائهم في أول ليلة من الهلال وليلة النصف وفي آخر ليلة أما رايت المجنون يصرع في أول الشهر وفي وسطه وفي آخره.
ورواه الشيخ بإسناده عن محمد بن يعقوب، مثله (1).

المصادر

الكافي 5: 499 | 3.

edit:

this one is interesting as well.

وفي (الخصال) بإسناده عن علي (عليه السلام) في حديث الاربعمائة قال: إذا أراد أحدكم ان يأتي أهله فليتوق أول الاهلة وأنصاف الشهور فان الشيطان يطلب الولد في هذين الوقتين والشياطين يطلبون الشرك فيهما فيجيئون ويخبلون (1).

المصادر

الخصال: 637.

الهوامش

1- في المصدر: يحبلون

That is interesting!  
thanks

the first Hadith says that reason for avoiding intercourse during those times is that there are many more jinn during those tines that the mad man becomes more mad during those times...  did I understand that correct?

second tradition says:the reason to avoid is because shaytan seeks a boy from the two parents during these times and that the shayateen desire them to commit shirk.

what does “yajeeoon” and “yakhbiloon” mean?

 

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On 12/12/2019 at 3:09 PM, eThErEaL said:

But how many of those are mad? Or have “episodes” of being mad?  

was hitler conceived under a full moon?
Maybe psychotic people were conceived under a full moon

If Hitler was conceived under a full moon and millions others are too, there still is no correlation.

There are plenty of birth statistics for you to access and simply reason the nonesense of the made up Hadith.

The majority of the planet is born outside those time windows, and there's still a higher ratio of criminals born in that window... So ask how many conceived not on full moon are psychotic, the answer? Many.

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2 minutes ago, wmehar2 said:

If Hitler was conceived under a full moon and millions others are too, there still is no correlation.

There are plenty of birth statistics for you to access and simply reason the nonesense of the made up Hadith.

The majority of the planet is born outside those time windows, and there's still a higher ratio of criminals born in that window... So ask how many conceived not on full moon are psychotic, the answer? Many.

I would just like to know the GRADING on such hadith.  
 

if you are not an expert of hadith grading then please don’t interfere. 
 

thanks

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5 minutes ago, wmehar2 said:

There are plenty of birth statistics for you to access and simply reason the nonesense of the made up Hadith.

The Hadith refers to conception times not births. 

You are not obliged to accept it, but I suggest not referring to anything you can't accept or comprehend as 'nonsense made up Hadith'. 

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6 minutes ago, eThErEaL said:

I would just like to know the GRADING on such hadith.  
 

if you are not an expert of hadith grading then please don’t interfere. 
 

thanks

You are on ShiaChat, which I believe is a portal for open discussion. 

If you want exclusively 'expert grading' opinions, then I suggest you send your query to Najaf or Qom Hawzas. 

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