Should 'The Donald' Be lmpeached ?

[hasanhh]

Several websites are running 'readers' polls on this question.

What is your current voting?

[Moalfas]

If I was AmeriCorn, I'd vote hell yeah! 

[The Green Knight]

Impeaching a US president is like doing dialysis to a cancer patient. It will not fix the problem but is liable to add undue complication.

Americans should drain that swamp before anything else. Be a real and transparent democracy.

[notme]

5 minutes ago, The Green Knight said:

Americans should drain that swamp before anything else. Be a real and transparent democracy.

If we take out everyone who is corrupt, nobody will be left. It literally would be a revolution. I'm not saying it wouldn't be beneficial in the long run, but I don't think we're ready yet for the sacrifices that will require. 

[Gaius I. Caesar]

32 minutes ago, The Green Knight said:

Americans should drain that swamp before anything else. Be a real and transparent democracy

We were never a democracy, and never will be. We are a federal republic, a federation of fifty states who elect representatives to represent us in the government and our government has been more efficient, transparent and real than any of Pakistan's attempts of a corruption-free and stable democracy.

[The Green Knight]

1 hour ago, Gaius I. Caesar said:

 who elect representatives to represent us in the government

That is democracy, essentially.

As for comparing Merica with a third world country, that's like comparing a feudal elite with a peasant. Its sad on its own, this comparison. Pentagon simply "losing" 10 trillion US dollars like its a routine of the decade coupled with a public response similar to that of a corpse is not a phenomenon that can occur in most other countries. Just saying.

[hasanhh]

2 hours ago, Moalfas said:

If I was AmeriCorn, I'd vote hell yeah! 

Go ahead and vote. This is an SCReader poll, not Gallop.

[Gaius I. Caesar]

On 12/6/2019 at 3:25 PM, The Green Knight said:

That is democracy, essentially.

Democracy, technically speaking is a direct rule of the people. In a democracy, everything is voted on 24/7. I don't know of any country that has form of government. 

But if you meant this: 

Quote

a government in which the supreme power is vested in the people and exercised by them directly or indirectly through a system of representation usually involving periodically held free elections

Then yes, you are spot on but the correct and technical term of this type of government is a republic.

On 12/6/2019 at 3:25 PM, The Green Knight said:

Pentagon simply "losing" 10 trillion US dollars like its a routine of the decade coupled with a public response similar to that of a corpse is not a phenomenon that can occur in most other countries. Just saying.

I agree, it's very strange. If we were cut back on the military and adopt neutrality policies, we could recover it.

[Abu_Zahra]

8 hours ago, Gaius I. Caesar said:

Democracy, technically speaking is a direct rule of the people. In a democracy, everything is voted on 24/7. I don't know of any country that has form of government. 

Switzerland

[iCenozoic]

I don't think it matters if Trump were impeached or not. Elections are around the corner and given his history, it's clear that he will loose the next election.

[ShiaChat Mod]

20 minutes ago, iCenozoic said:

Elections are around the corner and given his history, it's clear that he will loose the next election.

So many people thought he was running for President just to increase the publicity for The Trump Organization*. When he was elected, many people were thoroughly shocked and wondering How could that even happen? 

Edited December 13, 2019 by ShiaChat Mod
* a group of about 500 business entities of which Donald Trump is the sole or principal owner. About 250 of these entities use the Trump name.

[hasanhh]

2 minutes ago, ShiaChat Mod said:

So many people thought he was running for President just to increase the publicity for The Trump Organization*. When he was elected, many people were thoroughly shocked and wondering How could that even happen? 

lf you remember, "the Donald" said he would work-to-win to the very end. He did.

The polling and every other metric showed 'the Donald' losing. Trump and his son began their next business project. Trump continues with his l-will campaign plan.

Two weeks before voting, a sickening damsel-in-distress operation begins to influence America's women voters with accusations. [Since that time,  everyone of the ~20 were sued and every one has settled, lost in court or still pending in court].

Trump goes to Wisconsin and the Philidelphia area. Hillary did not.

Trump wins (remember the classic picture? The whole family is smiling at the unexpected returns coming in on TV; while "the Donald", arms folded, with a grumpy look on his face, is trying to figure out what his campaign didn't know.

Hillary gets drunk. "Why won't they let me win?"

Trump tries to form an Administration as the Republican 'elites' threaten with a "you will have no future in politics" to anyone thinking of joining the Trump Administration.

Just a few of my rememberences.

[ShiaChat Mod]

32 minutes ago, hasanhh said:

lf you remember, "the Donald" said he would work-to-win to the very end. He did.

The polling and every other metric showed 'the Donald' losing. Trump and his son began their next business project. Trump continues with his l-will campaign plan.

Two weeks before voting, a sickening damsel-in-distress operation begins to influence America's women voters with accusations. [Since that time,  everyone of the ~20 were sued and every one has settled, lost in court or still pending in court].

Trump goes to Wisconsin and the Philidelphia area. Hillary did not.

Trump wins (remember the classic picture? The whole family is smiling at the unexpected returns coming in on TV; while "the Donald", arms folded, with a grumpy look on his face, is trying to figure out what his campaign didn't know.

Hillary gets drunk. "Why won't they let me win?"

Trump tries to form an Administration as the Republican 'elites' threaten with a "you will have no future in politics" to anyone thinking of joining the Trump Administration.

Just a few of my rememberences.

Excellent memory. MashAllah

Edited December 13, 2019 by Hameedeh
Topic pinned.

[iCenozoic]

53 minutes ago, ShiaChat Mod said:

So many people thought he was running for President just to increase the publicity for The Trump Organization*. When he was elected, many people were thoroughly shocked and wondering How could that even happen? 

I remember quite well. 

[wolverine]

Voted now. What next?  

[Guest Rational man]

Of course he should be impeached. He has committed treason in his dealing with Ukraine and there is no doubt about it. Too many Amerikans are shameless and deny the obvious for their own personal political gain. The Republican Party has proved itself shameless in promoting what anyone with half a brain knows to be a lie.

This is the greatest political crisis I have experienced and if left unchecked the USA will stay a very ugly place. What is going on here is just that bad. I gotta stop before I explode.

[hasanhh]

l have been following this --which is awkward to do with the hyperactive media, but here is a couple of items:

As reported on PBS News Hour the highest polling number ffavoring impeachment is 47%.

l saw another online poll today. The Question was "Do the Democrats try to make the President look bad?" {As in go-out-of-their-way, extra effort, to make Trump look bad. 88% = 33,033 people voted "yes" and only 1% Unsure.

Things are still in the 6 Hour debate before voting.

[notme]

I keep checking back. Is Trump impeached yet? 

But even after he is, nothing will change. The Senate will kill it. They think they're playing football, not running a country. 

Besides, Pence isn't much better. 

[notme]

3 hours ago, notme said:

Is Trump impeached yet? 

Yes for the first of two charges. Voting continues for the second charge. 

[Hameedeh]

The House of Representatives has impeached President Trump

December 18, 7:44PM CST

For just the third time in U.S. history, an American president has been impeached by the House.  This is a developing story. Check back for updates.

[hasanhh]

By House Resolution 755

Article 1    230 Yeas    197 Neighs      1 Present      3 Not Voting

Article 2    229 Yeas   198 Neighs        1 Present     3 Not Voting

 

Ergo, 'the Donald' is lmpeached . . . while at a campaign rally in Battle Creek, Michigan

[Moalfas]

The Senate's on his side so I doubt he's going anywhere as @notme noted 

This just highlights him out more in history books and could possibly increase his chances for a second term. 

An ego boost and more attention.

[confusedandannoyed]

2 hours ago, Moalfas said:

The Senate's on his side so I doubt he's going anywhere as @notme noted 

This just highlights him out more in history books and could possibly increase his chances for a second term. 

An ego boost and more attention.

I expected a failed impeachment to have the opposite effect: it will signify to voters that because the House impeached him, there must have been something really egregious that he did while in office. Although the Senate might not vote him out, it does signal to the electorate that he was found by one legislative chamber to not be fit for office. That's my hope! 

[notme]

2 hours ago, confusedandannoyed said:

I expected a failed impeachment to have the opposite effect: it will signify to voters that because the House impeached him, there must have been something really egregious that he did while in office. Although the Senate might not vote him out, it does signal to the electorate that he was found by one legislative chamber to not be fit for office. That's my hope! 

You haven't tried to talk with his fans. They are convinced that he is infallible and will excuse or deny all his misdeeds, even when presented overwhelming evidence. Nothing will sway them. It's terrifying.

[hasanhh]

12 hours ago, confusedandannoyed said:

I expected a failed impeachment to have the opposite effect: it will signify to voters that because the House impeached him, there must have been something really egregious that he did while in office. Although the Senate might not vote him out, it does signal to the electorate that he was found by one legislative chamber to not be fit for office. That's my hope! 

That is also the Nanny Pe-lousy "hope" according to the radio. This is about the 2020 General Election.

Personally, l hope California "takes care of" her and Schiff in the Primaries . . . or in the General Election. "Vote Them Out"

[Mohamed1993]

He should but for pushing policies that the people are impeaching him are guilty of as well, they only care that he attacked a member of the other side, which could end up blowing up badly in their faces come 2020. It's partisan theater, they just voted overwhelmingly to pass the NDAA, and then they impeach the same guy they voted to give more money to for the military. It's a joke. 

[hasanhh]

8 hours ago, Mohamed1993 said:

He should but for pushing policies that the people are impeaching him are guilty of as well, they only care that he attacked a member of the other side, which could end up blowing up badly in their faces come 2020. It's partisan theater, they just voted overwhelmingly to pass the NDAA, and then they impeach the same guy they voted to give more money to for the military. It's a joke. 

On the radio tonight, a commentator said that what is really driving the Liberal, Nut-Wing of the Democratic Party to near desperation is the fact that Trump is appointing so many federal judges. l believe he said 15 were confirmed by the Senate just last week, for a current total of 185. Far more than 0bama did in eight years.

Another thing commentator said was that McConnell will take-on Pelousy after the first of the year.

[Ashvazdanghe]

https://fa.abna24.com/news/کاریکاتور/کاریکاتور-استیضاح-و-برکناری-دونالد-ترامپ_762322.html

[Son of Placid]

On 12/6/2019 at 3:00 PM, Gaius I. Caesar said:

Democracy, technically speaking is a direct rule of the people. In a democracy, everything is voted on 24/7. I don't know of any country that has form of government. 

This reminded me of an episode of "The Orville" A short lived satirical star trek. They lose one of the crew to a planet of normal looking people and gets accused of something worthy of death penalty...or full pardon.  Being totally democratic, everybody had a voting station in their house. As things come up for vote, they voted within a time frame. Of course the public vote for this guy was against him, and the time was ending soon. They managed to hack the social media and send out pictures of the guy with his elderly mom, then of him and his dog, then some other totally adorable picture, anyway, the vote was swayed. In this day and age that would totally work.

Honestly, as Canadians, we have Trudeau, you have Trump. We have no idea what your problem is. We're being sold out to the UN, JT tried to give us away peacefully, didn't work, so now bankruptcy is the new plan.  Borrow billions foreign, give it away foreign. 

I respectfully told a fellow the other day to take off his impeachment glasses and read the writing on the wall. Trump's getting another term.

Maybe it's easier to see North of the 49th parallel. TDS exists in Canada as well, but only in regions below the 49th parallel. 

[hasanhh]

55 minutes ago, Son of Placid said:

This  . . .

Honestly, as Canadians, we have Trudeau, you have Trump. We have no idea what your problem is. We're being sold out to the UN, JT tried to give us away peacefully, didn't work, so now bankruptcy is the new plan.  Borrow billions foreign, give it away foreign. 

I respectfully told a fellow the other day to take off his impeachment glasses and read the writing on the wall. Trump's getting another term.

Maybe it's easier to see North of the 49th parallel. TDS exists in Canada as well, but only in regions below the 49th parallel. 

Do you have a link for this point-of-view towards JT?

We in the US essentially never get any Canadian news.

Thanx.

[Gaius I. Caesar]

6 hours ago, Son of Placid said:

We have no idea what your problem is. We're being sold out to the UN, JT tried to give us away peacefully, didn't work, so now bankruptcy is the new plan.  Borrow billions foreign, give it away foreign.

The issue is the following: Compromised security, Ukraine, the 2016 election being hacked by bots and his obstruction of legal investigations. If he's truly innocent in all the above, why would he act guilty?  His behavior is really strange. 

6 hours ago, Son of Placid said:

I respectfully told a fellow the other day to take off his impeachment glasses and read the writing on the wall. Trump's getting another term.

It's a bit soon to definitively say that Trump will get a second term, but if he runs this upcoming year, he will most likely lose. It would be better for Trump to quietly end this term and not run again.

[Son of Placid]

8 hours ago, hasanhh said:

Do you have a link for this point-of-view towards JT?

We in the US essentially never get any Canadian news.

Thanx.

Wexit is getting larger. Canada may soon be two countries. Canada's number one resource is western oil. Trudeau bought the Trans mountain pipeline expansion project for billions from Kinder Morgan, who moved their business to the States. Trudeau was also caught funding protesters against the same pipeline. When challenged to explain his actions he said he was defending their right to freedom of speech. When asked for clarification he went into a rant on woman's rights. O&G companies are moving to the States, 77,000 jobs lost in one month. Lisa Laflamme is a popular news lady, interviewed JT. No idea why she didn't just not answer her own questions. He's suppressed most exports. Ontario and Quebec have big business ties with the US. Certain people get richer when the Canadian dollar is down, Alberta oil only raises the dollar.

Canada has an equalization program in which the richer provinces pay into, and the poorer provinces collect from. Before Alberta was shut down JT quietly renewed the equalization formula at the same rates as when Alberta was making money until 2024. The western provinces have been the haves, and Manitoba to the east coast has been the "have nots". 
Alberta alone paid $28+B into the program, Quebec pulls $13,8B out of it. 
Quebec has a provincial pension plan, no fault insurance, Extended services, garbage picked up twice weekly, snow plows move when the snow starts falling. Consumer protection laws, etc. The P.E.T. Levesque alliance put that all in place. Quebec houses some of the largest Canadian companies, Bombardier, SNC-L, Sandoz, Dejardins, Air Canada and more, all bailed out over and over while making billions and never paying anything back, many tied to the Quebec pension plan. Union de Montreal is a mob, they also have their hands in everything.

Billions of dollars later the pipeline is no further ahead. JT also passed a bill to limit the amount of tankers allowed to port...oil tankers.  He won't allow any more pipelines. His Grand daddy made the family fortune on Arab oil, JT has no intention of letting that go. The Arabs also own the Canadian Wheat Board. The UN owns Trudeau.
SNC Lavalin pleaded guilty on all counts of fraud and money laundering. JT did his best to stop the trial. He fired the Justice Minister for calling him out and refusing to sweep it under the rug.

He calls himself a feminist, he's a womanizer. He's been booted as a teacher twice for his conduct, his best friend busted for making child pornos. He tells the world he buys water in water box things but his budget shows more that $1000. a month spent on water bottles...plastic water bottles. 

He's all about the environment but needs two jets to fly anywhere. One for his vodka, one for his canoe. 

Greta comes to town. The Trudeau "foundation" collects it's biggest donation ever from the office of the producer doing the Greta documentary, which didn't have the money until passed down from a foundation that was funded by another foundation connected to George Soros. Greta did her thing, convinced people to vote for the environment, then JT gives the rest to the Clinton foundation. 
Finance minister says Canada starts JT's second term $7+B deeper in debt than promised. 30B in debt now. JT sends China $250+M for reasons unknown while asking Trump to help get the detained Canadians back while he holds Huawei exec under luxurious house arrest.  
He sent half a billion to Africa, "regional", another half billion to Asia, "regional", $250 M to Afghanistan, another 1/4B to America, "regional", Ethiopia got $200M,  Tanzania, $141M,  Mali, Nigeria, Jordan, Bangladesh,  $135M each, Syria and Haiti, $125M, and...almost a billion, "uncoded". That was only 2018.
When you suppress your GDP, and borrow foreign money to give away, what's left? 

You have something against Trump?


 

 

[hasanhh]

6 minutes ago, Son of Placid said:

You have something against Trump?

No, even though l do not agree with him on everything.

From your first paragraph, l figure JT is as crooked as a dog's hind leg.

[Son of Placid]

10 hours ago, Gaius I. Caesar said:

The issue is the following: Compromised security, Ukraine, the 2016 election being hacked by bots and his obstruction of legal investigations. If he's truly innocent in all the above, why would he act guilty?  His behavior is really strange. 

It's a bit soon to definitively say that Trump will get a second term, but if he runs this upcoming year, he will most likely lose. It would be better for Trump to quietly end this term and not run again.

I might be a bit premature in saying he'll win again, but who to vote for? The Dems have put themselves in a position. I don't know that they have someone who can stand up to Trump. 

Nobody has broken down the compromise of national security yet, at least to me. National security is supposed to mean the security of the people of that nation. This time around it's looking more like the security of the democrats secrets. The Dems may brush the Biden thing aside but Ukraine is out some 7.4 billions dollars and they'd like to know where it went. These legal investigations for impeachment weren't all that legal. Many rules were broken to make things legal or acceptable. Whether they realize it or not, Trump now has the power to use all of their newly ruled investigative techniques against them. People keep thinking he's an idiot.

I think he knows when to show his cards and when to hold them. 

[hasanhh]

1 hour ago, Son of Placid said:

Nobody has broken down the compromise of national security yet, at least to me.

There isn't one. l searched this last week. The US has only two treaties with Ukraine (that l could find): the one for Bi-lateral Relations and the second on combating Corruption. Ukraine is not an "ally" to the US as it does not have a mutual defense treaty or is a member of NATO or other organization the US belongs to. The military assistance the US and EU provides is to bring the Ukraine forces up to a standard and force to be eligible for NATO membership.

Above l posted an article on the substantial amount of lethal quipment the Trump Administration provided last year to Ukraine.

The recent news that a hold-on-aid was made and the instruction to keep it secret has at least  two elements: 1] Why the hold?, 2] So not to undercut a newly elected President from Ukrainian popular reactions, such as, "Yikes, the US knows something bad and we don't."

l found a list of how permeated corruption is in Ukraine, down to the city distict level, but not the US National Security Council's 'talking points list' [which l hope comes out during the Senatorial trial].