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In the Name of God بسم الله

Problematic fiqh issue

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Salam, so I live in America , as you know I can marry a biblical woman mut’ah , the problem is, before you can tell her about mut’ah u have to at least go on a date with her and some how impress her by making her laugh etc, the thing is all these things are haram before mut’ah can be established as far as I know. 
 

Now you can argue, why not do mut’ah before you go on a date with her? 
and the answer to that is : that is theoretically possible but practically almost impossible as you can’t just say to a girl  I can’t date u unless we do this, so what to do in this case? Should I go on a date without mut’ah at least till we can be acquainted enough to propose mut’ah thing? 
 

im not asking for fatwa now , just ur idea on this issue. 

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11 minutes ago, SajjadKhil said:

Salam, so I live in America , as you know I can marry a biblical woman mut’ah , the problem is, before you can tell her about mut’ah u have to at least go on a date with her and some how impress her by making her laugh etc, the thing is all these things are haram before mut’ah can be established as far as I know. 
 

Now you can argue, why not do mut’ah before you go on a date with her? 
and the answer to that is : that is theoretically possible but practically almost impossible as you can’t just say to a girl  I can’t date u unless we do this, so what to do in this case? Should I go on a date without mut’ah at least till we can be acquainted enough to propose mut’ah thing? 
 

im not asking for fatwa now , just ur idea on this issue. 

:salam:

Precisely the reason why mut`ah cannot be done correctly unless with a woman who is aware about it, and/or lives according with its standards...

So basically,

- Date = [loud wrong buzzer sound]

- Flirt before = [loud wrong buzzer sound]

- Thinking of mut`ah as your alternative to western GF = [loud wrong buzzer sound]

- [loud wrong buzzer sound]

- [loud wrong buzzer sound]

- [loud wrong buzzer sound]

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24 minutes ago, realizm said:

:salam:

Precisely the reason why mut`ah cannot be done correctly unless with a woman who is aware about it, and/or lives according with its standards...

So basically,

- Date = [loud wrong buzzer sound]

- Flirt before = [loud wrong buzzer sound]

- Thinking of mut`ah as your alternative to western GF = [loud wrong buzzer sound]

- [loud wrong buzzer sound]

- [loud wrong buzzer sound]

- [loud wrong buzzer sound]

Yea but that leaves me no licit ways of dispensing my shahwa , I want to get permanent wife but I can’t find any . And if I wait its almost impossible for me cause im on fire . 

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1 hour ago, SajjadKhil said:

Salam, so I live in America , as you know I can marry a biblical woman mut’ah , the problem is, before you can tell her about mut’ah u have to at least go on a date with her and some how impress her by making her laugh etc, the thing is all these things are haram before mut’ah can be established as far as I know. 
 

Now you can argue, why not do mut’ah before you go on a date with her? 
and the answer to that is : that is theoretically possible but practically almost impossible as you can’t just say to a girl  I can’t date u unless we do this, so what to do in this case? Should I go on a date without mut’ah at least till we can be acquainted enough to propose mut’ah thing? 
 

im not asking for fatwa now , just ur idea on this issue. 

LOL not that I was looking to do mut'ah, but I thought of this question before too. It's nice to see you ask about this. 

Honestly, this is a pretty tricky matter. And even with a girl who is Shia and knows about mut'ah, you may still have the same problem. 

First of all, are you sure successful celibacy until permanent marriage really isn't an option for you? Think about the future, do you see considerable chances of this girl becoming a Muslim and then you entering into a permanent marriage with her? Or do you plan on dumping her after you're done satisfying your desires? Also, even thinking about just yourself, how do you think your potential permenant partner and her family will react when they find out you were goofing around with a non-Muslim chick. 

Why don't you look for your permanent partner right now? Just do mut'ah or nikah with a girl who you decide can be your permanent partner and then do your full out wedding later. You would have a girl and keep things halal too.

Anyway goodluck. My suggestion to you is just don't look at girls at all, talking about mon mahram girls here.

But if you really really are just on fire and are committing sin, then maybe just find a way to do what you gotta do. 

"Hello _____, I think you would make a great female friend for me, if you're down, can we enter into an intimate Male-female relationship together, but first.....(talk about mut'ah here)....".

But again, it would be A LOT better for you to do mut'ah with a girl you plan to do nikah with after, so a Shia Muslim girl who will be your permanent partner in the future.

Edited by AStruggler
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@SajjadKhil

Brother, you're saying you want a permanent wife and you can't find any. Does that mean you're prepared, able to enter into marriage and capable of sustaining and nurturing a life long commitment?

Because there's a lot more to marriage once that 'fire' is put out.

 

Edited by Moalfas
Grammar
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10 minutes ago, Moalfas said:

@SajjadKhil

Brother, you're saying you want a permanent wife and you can't find any. Does that mean you're prepared, able to enter into marriage and capable of sustaining and nurturing a long life commitment?

Because there's a lot more to marriage once that 'fire' is put out.

 

Well to be honest im not fully ready, but on the other hand, what is the alternative? Celibacy is difficult to attain, not with the society im living in where u see sexy girls everywhere even at work , through media , tv , video games , avoiding haram in this day and age is almost impossible. also if celibacy was truly easy, Islam wouldnt have legislated mut’ah. 
 

 

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59 minutes ago, Moalfas said:

@SajjadKhil

Brother, you're saying you want a permanent wife and you can't find any. Does that mean you're prepared, able to enter into marriage and capable of sustaining and nurturing a long life commitment?

Because there's a lot more to marriage once that 'fire' is put out.

 

Honestly, I think nowadays the over-emphasis we have in our communities on what you talk about here, is making people run away from and be scared of marriage, and this is just detrimtal for Muslim society.

What about the poor people who will always be struggling financially? Are they supposed to just remain single for the rest of their life in this world God created? Is God's system of marriage just not possible for all his human slaves?  

Nowadays the younger generations don't really get settled career wise until they're late into their twenties. I guess they just can't get married until they're old, exiting their youth, and stubbornly set in their ways then. Okay, I'm going to stop here now lol, or else I may end up committing the strawman fallacy, might've already committed it.

Edited by AStruggler
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21 minutes ago, AStruggler said:

LOL not that I was looking to do mut'ah, but I thought of this question before too. It's nice to see you ask about this. 

Honestly, this is a pretty tricky matter. And even with a girl who is Shia and knows about mut'ah, you may still have the same problem. 

First of all, are you sure successful celibacy until permanent marriage really isn't an option for you? Think about the future, do you see considerable chances of this girl becoming a Muslim and then you entering into a permanent marriage with her? Or do you plan on dumping her after you're done satisfying your desires? Also, even thinking about just yourself, how do you think your potential permenant partner and her family will react when they find out you were goofing around with a non-Muslim chick. 

Why don't you look for your permanent partner right now? Just do mut'ah or nikah with a girl who you decide can be your permanent partner and then do your full out wedding later. You would have a girl and keep things halal too.

Anyway goodluck. My suggestion to you is just don't look at girls at all, talking about mon mahram girls here.

But if you really really are just on fire and are committing sin, then maybe just find a way to do what you gotta do. 

"Hello _____, I think you would make a great female friend for me, if you're down, can we enter into an intimate Male-female relationship together, but first.....(talk about mut'ah here)....".

But again, it would be A LOT better for you to do mut'ah with a girl you plan to do nikah with after, so a Shia Muslim girl who will be your permanent partner in the future.

Most of the girls available for dating here are either mexican girls or white girls who have been raised here so I wouldnt count on trying to bring them to Islam as it is too strict for them , they are used to a completely different life style which clashes head on with Islamic value so no im looking for temporary thing until I can find a good Muslim girl. 

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3 minutes ago, SajjadKhil said:

Well to be honest im not fully ready, but on the other hand, what is the alternative? Celibacy is difficult to attain, not with the society im living in where u see sexy girls everywhere even at work , through media , tv , video games , avoiding haram in this day and age is almost impossible. also if celibacy was truly easy, Islam wouldnt have legislated mut’ah. 
 

 

Ok I just wanted to be clear on that as I was about to suggest offering some assistance in finding a permanent wife.

So anyways back to the topic lol 

It's certainly not easy at all. The situation you're in is what the majority of Muslims are in. But then again, it's not impossible to hold oneself from haram. This is after all جهاد النفس more difficult than the battlefield. 

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4 minutes ago, SajjadKhil said:

Most of the girls available for dating here are either mexican girls or white girls who have been raised here so I wouldnt count on trying to bring them to Islam as it is too strict for them , they are used to a completely different life style which clashes head on with Islamic value so no im looking for temporary thing until I can find a good Muslim girl. 

Do you plan on moving when you are looking to get married permanently?

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5 minutes ago, SajjadKhil said:

 Yes , but until I have children. 

How old are you if you don't me asking? If you have zero possibilities of finding a permanent in your current city then you might as well move now. If you move later do you think the girl of your dreams will show up from thin air the day you land in the new city? This stuff takes time.

Edited by AStruggler
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9 minutes ago, AStruggler said:

Honestly, I think nowadays the over-emphasis we have in our communities on what you talk about here, is making people run away from and be scared of marriage.

Over emphasis on the responsibilities that come with marriage? I think there isn't enough emphasis out there to be very honest and that's partly why we have so many divorces. 

If the singletons want to believe it's fun and games and fulfilling desires and would be scared and run away from the idea of responsibility and a life long commitment then be it. Honestly, save themselves and their partners and their families the divorces, the heartache and the messed up children. 

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I'm not at all referring to financial stability. Rather emotional stability and the ability and preparedness to build and nurture a life long commitment with all the hardships that come with it. 

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1 minute ago, Moalfas said:

Over emphasis on the responsibilities that come with marriage? I think there isn't enough emphasis out there to be very honest and that's partly why we have so many divorces. 

If the singletons want to believe it's fun and games and fulfilling desires and would be scared and run away from the idea of responsibility and a life long commitment then be it. Honestly, save themselves and their partners and their families the divorces, the heartache and the messed up children. 

Emphasize the responsibilities of marriage as much as necessary.

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5 minutes ago, AStruggler said:

How old are you if you don't me asking? If you have zero possibilities of finding a permanent in your current city then you might as well move now. If you move later do you think the girl of your dreams will show up from thin air the day you land in the new city? This stuff takes time.

I am 29 , to be honest I don’t know where to go if I move, Iraq is a mess , its full of corruption and the current gov is dictator, they are killing protestors in cold blood and the social services are pretty bad , power outage water outage , things are just terrible. 

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10 minutes ago, Moalfas said:

I'm not at all referring to financial stability. Rather emotional stability and the ability and preparedness to build and nurture a life long commitment with all the hardships that come with it. 

I see. Ayatollah Ibrahim Amini believes, despite the current ways of the world, 17-18 years of age is a good time for a male to get married: https://www.al-Islam.org/youth-and-spouse-selection-Ali-Akbar-mazaheri/chapter-two-when-must-we-marry

Sayyid Mahdi Moddaressi believes the same:

 https://open.spotify.com/episode/18HUMYJ4cm4ilvsZ2OFgeL?si=GDlvUyEiQ2Gaeffr6HubNw

Edited by AStruggler
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2 minutes ago, SajjadKhil said:

I am 29 , to be honest I don’t know where to go if I move, Iraq is a mess , its full of corruption and the current gov is dictator, they are killing protestors in cold blood and the social services are pretty bad , power outage water outage , things are just terrible. 

I'm sorry to hear about the situation in Iraq. But you don't live in Iraq right now do you? Maybe consider a more Shia populated city in the country you're already living in.

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@SajjadKhil apologies as there is no intention of hijacking the thread. 

Do you have any Shia centres in your city? 

 

@AStruggler I've not alluded to age at all. Some 18 year olds are more mature and responsible than some 30 years olds. If one understands the lifelong commitment he's entering and is able to put in the effort in working through the hardships regardless of his finances, then good for him and may Allah bless him in his endeavour. 

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10 minutes ago, Moalfas said:

@AStruggler I've not alluded to age at all. Some 18 year olds are more mature and responsible than some 30 years olds. If one understands the lifelong commitment he's entering and is able to put in the effort in working through the hardships regardless of his finances, then good for him and may Allah bless him in his endeavour. 

I believe that alhumdolillah most of us are ready to make this commitment by 18. There will always be bad examples, but we shouldn't dwell on these bad examples. We should do our best to not end up as a bad example ourself, think positively, look at the good examples for motivation, and then move forward saying bismillah. 

Apologies if I've derailed the thread a bit.

Edited by AStruggler
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26 minutes ago, AStruggler said:

I'm sorry to hear about the situation in Iraq. But you don't live in Iraq right now do you? Maybe consider a more Shia populated city in the country you're already living in.

I live in the US as mentioned earlier, I don’t know how to find a good Muslim girl here, im mentally responsible and financially doing alright. 

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5 hours ago, Moalfas said:

@SajjadKhil apologies as there is no intention of hijacking the thread. 

Do you have any Shia centres in your city? 

 

@AStruggler I've not alluded to age at all. Some 18 year olds are more mature and responsible than some 30 years olds. If one understands the lifelong commitment he's entering and is able to put in the effort in working through the hardships regardless of his finances, then good for him and may Allah bless him in his endeavour. 

Yes there is a center here in Phoenix. 

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1 hour ago, Mahdavist said:

Consider marrying a divorcee or widow muslimah instead in which case you can explain from the very start that you are looking for a temporary marriage. Since they have already been married permission from the guardian is not required.

 

Brother if I could find one I wouldnt be posting this lol, problem is my chances of finding them are very slim considering that they don’t use the dating apps as much as westerner girls or at least im rarely finding them. 

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If it helps, look up the 'Semen retention' community (a derivative of noFap movement) where Men even with girlfriends do not have any release and retain it will help you see Celibacy in a completely different light and as a very motivating thing until you can get married. it was truly life changing for me.

As a word of advice, you are in it for the release but the woman is usually in it for a long-term relationship. The moment you put your 'fire' out you will realise you are now committed to something that will cause you alot of problems and prevent any opportunity of marrying a muslima. this is just my 2 cents, best of luck Brother. 

Edited by Muslimthought97
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My piece of advice is to not appear super needy. It actually puts a lot of girls off if a guy just wants to get married to satisfy his desires. It's a lifelong commitment and a girl needs to be confident that you truly value her.

If you look for alternatives at this age it may actually demotivate you from permanently getting married. You're 29 and I know heaps of men get married at this age (especially Pakistani men). Also you can't say it's impossible to get married permanently unless you've looked everywhere. Keep trying and have trust in Allah's plan. If you're meant to get married, you will find one.

At this age, it's just not smart to do mut'ah. If you keep obsessing over it, by thinking about it day and night, morning and evening, you're strengthening the fire within you. Look for ways to work on your personality and discipline your nafs. 

Mut'ah is an option but it should be carefully used. It shouldn't be your goal. 

 

 

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Precisely the reason why mut`ah cannot be done correctly unless with a woman who is aware about it, and/or lives according with its standards...

What kind of Christian is a Christian woman who even allow mut'ah. It is so weird, because it is against their own belief.

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1 hour ago, Abu Nur said:

The woman also need to understand and accept it. But what Christian fiqh make it possible for Christians woman to do mut'ah? 

My brother it doesnt matter wether christianity accepts it or not, this is what our fiqh says , u have problem with it , take it up with the Prophet as who legislated such thing. 

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1 hour ago, SajjadKhil said:

My brother it doesnt matter wether christianity accepts it or not, this is what our fiqh says , u have problem with it , take it up with the Prophet as who legislated such thing. 

If Christian accept it, it is mostly because they don't care about their religion and are not practical ones. So probably not a chaste one, nor does she care about Islamic laws or about Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى). 

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8 hours ago, Abu Nur said:

What kind of Christian is a Christian woman who even allow mut'ah. It is so weird, because it is against their own belief.

exactly, this is the type of question we need to ask our ayatullahs.

And even if it's still okay, then what difference does it make if ahlul kitab or not.

Isn't it worse to believe that Allah has a son, than having no religion at all but believe in some kind of higher power?

But still if I am correct, you can only marry the first not the latter.

Edited by AkhiraisReal
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