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warisshah2012

Would you let your son or daughter date?

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Guest Rationale

The question is literally “would you allow your child to commit haram” to which my answer is no.

The real question is “would you allow your child to do a mutah”

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6 minutes ago, Guest Rationale said:

The real question is “would you allow your child to do a mutah”

*Facepalm* 

No, the real question is why don't I tell my child that there is something called 'self control' because this is a valuable life skill and something which he/she might have to practice even after permanent marriage. Life after permanent marriage isn't as simple as some people think, that's unless you would want to tell them to go do Mutah every time their permanent spouse refuses/is unavailable. 

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Guest Pschological Warfare
12 minutes ago, Guest Rationale said:

The real question is “would you allow your child to do a mutah”

Why not permanent Marriage? 

-------------------------------------

 

Just as a FYI

2388. In case a girl who has reached the age of puberty is, virgin and mature (I.e. she can distinguish between what is good or bad for her) wishes to marry, she should, on the basis of obligatory precaution, obtain permission in this behalf from her father or paternal grandfather. It is not, however, necessary for her to obtain such permission from her mother of brother.

&

Kindly, review and understand the rational and condition- Not a preferred option as Permanent Marriage. 

https://www.al-Islam.org/Islamic-laws-ayatullah-abul-qasim-al-khui/marriage#mutah-fixed-time-marriage

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16 minutes ago, Guest Rationale said:

The question is literally “would you allow your child to commit haram” to which my answer is no.

The real question is “would you allow your child to do a mutah”

No, not at all.

As several of us have pointed out, the word "dating" means different things to different people. Traditionally, it means spending time with an individual to get to know them for the purpose of making a decision about marriage. It's more similar to courting than to mutah. 

To others, it's essentially secular mutah. 

It's important to be clear how you are defining the word before you can have any meaningful discussion. 

I would not allow any of my children to marry strangers, therefore, I'd have to allow some kind of "dating" so they can make an informed decision. As I said before, I'd want to only allow supervised dating. I want to protect my children from the bad decisions that humans are always tempted to make. If my son or daughter said to me "I'm dating this person", I'd say "bring them over. I want to meet them."

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Guest boo!Monad

apparently most of my intellectual posts are being declined!.:braveheart:

So, I have to regress to posts that meet the criteria.

Google - bing - duckandgo - rather use a search engine of your own choice - Marshmallow  Test

What if we lived 1000's, years ago or even to this day, yes it happens even as a cultural norm, and your pubescent human brought home a slave?.

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13 minutes ago, Guest boo!Monad said:

What if your pubescent human brought home a slave?.

Oh come on Monad! As if I am ever going to increase their pocket money more than the price of a bag of Lay's and my son loves crisps,he will never be able to save enough to buy a human. 

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Guest Pschological Warfare
25 minutes ago, Guest boo!Monad said:

What if we lived 1000's, years ago or even to this day, yes it happens even as a cultural norm, and your pubescent human brought home a slave?.

On a light note- Well, Most men are slaves of a women. Women have played a part in the evolution of their modern day Slaves I.e Man from having a spine/backbone into  tale that they usually wag at the whim of their slave master. 

You heard of the terms.  Yes .Honey. Yes Dear.

 

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I can't bother to go through all posts.

But dating? what do you mean by dating?

if a man and women who are non mahram wants to know each other, they should do so in daytime in public places. And that is after the parents are aware of it. specially the girls father and he gives permission to it.

Mutah with condition is another option, but I am not sure how well the conditions can be followed. I have heard of people using mutah with condition, but I am not sure how well those conditions where followed. It's easy to get tempted. I am not even sure if mutah with condition such as no touching or sex is even allowed.

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0bservation:

Back when there were people in America who valued decency and behaving-oneself, they had a standard way of doing things.

The porch swing. Times were set -an hour or two- parents had stuff to eat and son. There was also the 'barn dance' and church -which was mostly a social center.

Then in the post WW2 era when the economy got better and 'teen' things came into the culture, it was cars, going to the movies and other problems. The teen pregnancy  rate was very high in the early fifties.

Then it was vans.

Now, with video games, movie subscriptions, and so on, they have more stuff to do at home than in going anywhere. So, with the proper arranging of things, the two can be in an adjacent room, away from the 'adults' helicoptering, and allowed just to talk, compete over stuff, have fun, laugh out loud and all.

Actually, from my lslamic-oriented view, things now are better than before.

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Guest mmmm!Monad
1 hour ago, starlight said:

Oh come on Monad! As if I am ever going to increase their pocket money more than the price of a bag of Lay's and my son loves crisps,he will never be able to save enough to buy a human. 

if they followed the marshmallow test and saved up.... In some parts of the world, poverty leads to extreme decision making.  Vice YT

Starvation ( poverty ) and dignity do not mix well.

slaves are captured, thus they become property. A master defines the rights of a property. - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slavery

 

1 hour ago, Guest Pschological Warfare said:

On a light note- Well, Most men are slaves of a women. Women have played a part in the evolution of their modern day Slaves I.e Man from having a spine/backbone into  tale that they usually wag at the whim of their slave master. 

You heard of the terms.  Yes .Honey. Yes Dear.

Suggest a reading of anima and animus. Generally both are slaves of each other not knowing how to be actually free together.

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On 12/1/2019 at 8:21 AM, 3wliya_maryam said:

Insha Allah when I grow up and if I ever have kids I will make sure they can open up to me as well as trust me. Now with your question, absolutely not. Highschool love is a huge NO. Young boys are absolute trash and make stupid promises to the girl, breaking her heart in the end. I will make sure she stays away from that. However, if she has a crush or deep feelings for someone, I wouldn't be hard on her, rather I'd guide her and give solid advice as to how she should deal with it. Also to avoid crossing boundaries. If she is interested in getting married to him, then obviously I need to check if he is the right guy for her, cause alot of men are players and only want to satisfy their desires. Insha Allah I will also make sure that she has the full right to find out if he's suitable for her or not. just as long as she does not cross her limits and that I am fully aware.

Think about it, certain things in Islam are forbidden for a reason. When being in a haram relationship, bad things happen. Heartbreak, unwanted pregnancies, STD and AIDS. Allah doesn't want us to go through that. in a relationship, the guy can just leave her whenever he wants, however marriage is when both parties have given rights to eachother through signing a contract  along with commitment, so its not so easy to just simply walk out the door and leave your wife and unborn child behind. the man has to fulfill his rights to the woman, thats why marriage is important. 

Of course you subconsciously talk about a girl, a guy is not even mentioned if he should date or not, double standards.

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10 hours ago, Soldiers and Saffron said:

How can you even ask a question like this on an Islamic forum?

The brother should feel free to give his views and ask what he wishes to ask.

Ahlul Bayt (عليه السلام) always welcomed everyone with open arms and gave them the opportunity to give their views and responded with reason. I don't see any point in being dogmatic other than pushing people away. 

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7 hours ago, warisshah2012 said:

I'm not against Islamic schools from K1-K12 in theory but I've yet to see one that produces well rounded individuals who can live and thrive in the modern world.

Brother, you ought to know (as you work in education) that relying on school to produce that 'well rounded individual' is a far fetch from reality. Teachers have enough hassle covering the curriculum and paperwork etc let alone teaching the life long morals and ethics that make or break an individual. I've witnessed several parents who've put their kids in the 'best' Islamic schools and they still ended up on drugs and in prison etc

We cannot expect schools to do our work for us. 

Enrolling children in 'Islamic schools' is only done to keep them in an 'Islamic environment'. 

The school is responsible for teachIng them maths, English and biology etc and it's our responsibility as parents to teach them morals and ethics.

 

7 hours ago, warisshah2012 said:

doing zina or leaving Islam altogether? At least if you give them freedom they're more likely to stay in Islam even if nominally. 

If one can invest in their children, they wouldn't have to face such a 'dilemma'.

Islam is not about being 'nominally' Muslim.

Islam is about doing the research and coming to the absolute conviction that this is the message from my Creator and this is his Prophet and these are his teachings and these teachings will make me the best person I can ever be. 

Once you reach that conviction and conclusion inshallah, you will know how to pass it onto your offspring.

Wasalam. 

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6 hours ago, 313. said:

Of course you subconsciously talk about a girl, a guy is not even mentioned if he should date or not, double standards.

She gave her perspective as a female. You can give yours.

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18 hours ago, Moalfas said:

The brother should feel free to give his views and ask what he wishes to ask.

Ahlul Bayt (عليه السلام) always welcomed everyone with open arms and gave them the opportunity to give their views and responded with reason. I don't see any point in being dogmatic other than pushing people away. 

What dogma would I be following in this case according to you?
 

The brother is basically asking: is it okay to do haram if it prevents you from haram? What is the answer of Ahlul Bayt(عليه السلام) in this case?

I am sorry but I am not as lenient towards people wanting to westernize Islam to make it adaptable with the lifestyle of kafirs and make it a religion of words like they did to christianity.

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@Soldiers and Saffron

Your suggestion that his questions/views do not belong in an Islamic forum is dogmatic.

The brother is not your child or your responsibility, nor are you the representative of the faith, so 'lenient' is the wrong word to use. Again, this is a -my way or the highway- approach. 

If you're so unwilling to openly and civilly discuss the 'lifestyle of kafirs', why are you living amongst them?

This isn't about trying to 'westernise Islam'. This is about a brother who has lived all his life in the west and had adapted certain Western views. Would the Prophet saw and Ahlul Bayt (عليه السلام) shun him off or welcome him and respond to his opinions with reason? I think the latter. 

Edited by Moalfas
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1 hour ago, Moalfas said:

@Soldiers and Saffron

Your suggestion that his questions/views do not belong in an Islamic forum is dogmatic.

The brother is not your child or your responsibility, nor are you the representative of the faith, so 'lenient' is the wrong word to use. Again, this is a -my way or the highway- approach. 

If you're so unwilling to openly and civilly discuss the 'lifestyle of kafirs', why are you living amongst them?

This isn't about trying to 'westernise Islam'. This is about a brother who has lived all his life in the west and had adapted certain Western views. Would the Prophet saw and Ahlul Bayt (عليه السلام) shun him off or welcome him and respond to his opinions with reason? I think the latter. 

I asked you:

Which dogma would I be following in this case according to you?
 

Is it okay to do haram if it prevents you from haram? What is the answer of Ahlul Bayt(عليه السلام) in this case?

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Guest AbbasMusawi

Salaam everyone what do everyone mean with western countries first of all looks whats happening in Muslim countries and then talk about Muslims in West dating does happen in Muslim countries also first stop that and every Muslim living in western countries don’t date girls and have girlfriends or boyfriends don’t accuse without knowing anything. 

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14 hours ago, Soldiers and Saffron said:

I asked you:

Which dogma would I be following in this case according to you?
 

No point in going around in circles when I already answered; your suggestion of 'how can you even post such a question on an Islamic forum' is dogmatic. He didn't post naked pictures nor did he say all Muslims must engage in zina, for you to try to silence him.

He should feel free to give his views and have them discussed civilly and with reason. 

 

Quote

Is it okay to do haram if it prevents you from haram? What is the answer of Ahlul Bayt(عليه السلام) in this case?

The answer is not 'how could you even ask that on an Islamic forum'

Ahlul Bayt (عليه السلام) were faced with much worse than that. They had people trying to mock them and they still welcomed them and responded with reason. They didn't shun them nor silence them.

Edited by Moalfas
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