Jump to content
Guests can now reply in ALL forum topics (No registration required!) ×
Guests can now reply in ALL forum topics (No registration required!)
In the Name of God بسم الله

Rate this topic

Recommended Posts

image.png.890e422a2230aa91a20333c932b2c698.png

I hope you all are with good health. So recently in my neighborhood a young man of about the age of 25 committed suicide.His parents told that apparently he had no psychological issue or depression, that would cause him to do so. However they told that he used to consider himself a bad human being, a sinful Muslim.It was to such extent that whenever he used to do wuzu he never held Qur'an in his hand because he thought that he was najis or ghalees from inside. He used to think and cry that he is not worthy to pray namaz or even go to masjid. So these thoughts were getting severe. He tried his best not to do sin but whenever he did one he couldnt forgive himself or he used to think that Allah didnt forgive him or is angry with what he did.His parents were first happy that their son is a thoughtful Muslim. But later on they tried to explain him that being a human its our nature to do sins and no one is perfect except Allah or the Prophets and their Children. But it didnt had any effect on him.The maulvi refused to pray his Namaz e Janaza, so his father did. He was their only son.

Now I do also have such thoughts and sometimes I cry a lot even.But frankly speaking it didnt get this severe and somehow we all are used to the sins we do everyday like music and all.This person here was so sensitive that even the slightest of sin made him crazy. So what are your thoughts on this? he however did a major sin before departing from this world, however no one knows what Allah has planned for him or maybe he can be forgived.

waslam.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
8 minutes ago, Hussaini1912 said:

Now I do also have such thoughts and sometimes I cry a lot even.But

From the read, it appears that you are letting your empathy/sympathy takeover. lt looks like your friend didn't know how to calm himself down.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Walaikum as salam dear brother. Inna lillahi wa inna ilayhi raaji'oon. May Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) have mercy on the soul of our departed brother and may He protect us all from such things. 

There is a very beneficial work by shaheeed dastaghaib shirazi which has been translated into English under the title of Greater Sins. May Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) reward him and the translators for their efforts. 

The book can be read online here: Link

The author has firstly explained what a greater sin is and how they have been identified in the Qur'an and in hadith. He then discusses each of these sins further in the light of the Qur'an and ahadith. 

One of these sins (the second one that he discusses) is yas which is to despair in the mercy of Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) and is based on verse 87 of surah Yusuf.

Without a doubt sins are not to be taken lightly and we shouldn't make excuses for our sinfulness, but at the same time we can never write off and lose hope in the mercy of Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى). 

May Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) forgive us for all our sins.

Wallahu a'lam 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, hasanhh said:

it appears that you are letting your empathy/sympathy takeover.

can you explain it what you mean here?

1 hour ago, hasanhh said:

lt looks like your friend didn't know how to calm himself down.

yeah thats why he did suicide.:itsok:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) has said that he will forgive every sin except Shirk. So, if one has sinned, do Astaghfaar and try to avoid henceforth.

An xyz person commits suicide thinking he would be free from every difficulties. This is the biggest mistake. Suicide means he didn't had certainty in Allah's (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) mercy. That person would probably end up in hell. 

والله اعلم

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I want to point  out that sometimes even the loved ones closest to a person like don't know if someone has depression. There was a boy in my high school that committed suicide. He was popular (liked by everyone in school because he was friendly to everyone regardless if they were his friends or not), doing well in school, had a twin sister he was close with etc. And even she didn't see it coming. He was an active member our school's Christian faith club too. So he was exactly the last person you'd expect to lose hope.

So judging by what you said about that boy (his extreme dispair and extreme fretting over sinning) no one can rule out depression or other mental illnesses, since often mental illness is comorbid. Allah swa knows best. Such a sad story regardless.

Edited by Lilly14

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
55 minutes ago, Lilly14 said:

So judging by what you said about that boy (his extreme hopelessness) no one can rule out depression or other mental illnesses, since often mental illness is comorbid

What are the ways then? to avoid being demotivated or degrading yourself?

57 minutes ago, Sirius_Bright said:

Suicide means he didn't had certainty in Allah's (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) mercy. That person would probably end up in hell. 

It does mean that he had uncertainty in Allah's mercy,but in this case the person has mentally assumed that he is not worthy of Allah's mercy and that he will get peace in jahanum ( I did met people with such severe depression those who think they will find peace there.) .This is the extent of self hatred, which I think there is no way to overcome. Inner peace, thats what all of us need. And how to acquire it is also the question.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

There are people who use to say me that they deserve to be in jahanum and they deserve the severe punishments. Even when something bad happens to them they just simply say that this is what I deserved, rather I deserved more than this.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
19 minutes ago, Hussaini1912 said:

There are people who use to say me that they deserve to be in jahanum and they deserve the severe punishments. Even when something bad happens to them they just simply say that this is what I deserved, rather I deserved more than this.

That's wrong. Only Allah swa knows and can dictate how much a person deserves to punished by Him and whether they go to Hell. Allah swa is most merciful thankfully. We can't forget that.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

For those with mental illness, some types of mental illnesses can’t be controlled with just mindset and religion, because the illness has to do with their brain's biology. They might also need family support, therapists, medication, etc. 

Edited by Lilly14

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest RealityMonad

Mahdavist - are you serious? A guy who is probably at the doors of confusion and despair you want to give him a book like greator sins?.  I would not even trust that book wholey as its opinionated drival. Consider the timeline of the writer, his environment and what none of us ever know is the mindset of a particular author. Authors generally could be dellusional and we end up reading what they have written as gospel. I suggest a rethink of your own mind like do mine constantly and get nowhere.

Sirus - please do not parrot or pass jujdgement. You, like me, like the clergymen, the kings, the poor, the politicians, the saint or the sinner, the rich, none knows their position. It might be nice and tasty claiming your own certainty, but in truth of all things none actually has any certainty. I could even prove the contradictions of what you have written and religion it self , but the modes won't allow me boohoo. Theistic and atheistic debate are all fake they never attack the simplist problems and always have their own masters to please, except the reality or some form of logical truth.

NOW

it just means that he like the many introverted and naive humans got conned, tricked and cheated by selfish individuals who wanted to save themselves by using the masses as a resource.  That person made a choice, I do not live his life or in his mind. Neither would I look down upon his family or taunt them or think them to be inferior or superior. it is what it is.

That clergyman is following a set of rules. He gave up his own authority when he entered the system. And remember the prayers of a clergyman are not superior to that of a layman, he after all is a man and has an No authority on anyone. we all like to give them the podium because they study a particular subject with depth and this allows them to play that part.

The problem with humans and especially theists is that we were never taught to think for ourselves. We get conditioned by fear because some idiots think they have figured out the truth, while all they do is parrot and give the masses the impression that they apparently are the saviours of mankind. Has anyone ever wondered why some men and women feel the need to get up to the masses and preach about something without wanting something else in return. Yet we all follow them. Perhaps it is all a need to self express and belong. I too am doing the same while writing this thrash.

Rule Number 1 of life - The CORE of ALL HUMANS is the SAME. every HUMAN is trying to SAVE themselves with whatever means neccessary. if it means using another which we all do, we will. However this should not negate one to become paranoid, it just allows us to see with clarity and the motives of overselves and others. Ofcourse the many are not as devious but with time, age and the need to exist they become more apparent.

Understand economics- If all humans killed themselves who would farm and allow the others to sit comfortably in their homes?.. The motive of why suicide is not actually allowed. The claim that God is so merciful yet he gets upset if that slave kills himself because his/her mind broke?. Childish right?. A man made concept. Keep on farming slaves, I need my food.

Op - you just need study various materials out there and understand your own mind and place in the great scheme of things. The feeling of guilt is the doorstep towards becoming or rather attending towards a peaceful human who can coexist withothers. If humans are not taught to co-exist they would kill each other, thus the human populace would diminish and God would not exist. The existance of God depends on the intellectual mind to worship it or to acknowledge its existence. God dies for me when I go into non-existence. Thus God is dependent on what God creates to exist.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest GnosisIzReal
3 hours ago, Hussaini1912 said:

image.png.890e422a2230aa91a20333c932b2c698.png

I hope you all are with good health. So recently in my neighborhood a young man of about the age of 25 committed suicide.His parents told that apparently he had no psychological issue or depression, that would cause him to do so. However they told that he used to consider himself a bad human being, a sinful Muslim.It was to such extent that whenever he used to do wuzu he never held Qur'an in his hand because he thought that he was najis or ghalees from inside. He used to think and cry that he is not worthy to pray namaz or even go to masjid. So these thoughts were getting severe. He tried his best not to do sin but whenever he did one he couldnt forgive himself or he used to think that Allah didnt forgive him or is angry with what he did.His parents were first happy that their son is a thoughtful Muslim. But later on they tried to explain him that being a human its our nature to do sins and no one is perfect except Allah or the Prophets and their Children. But it didnt had any effect on him.The maulvi refused to pray his Namaz e Janaza, so his father did. He was their only son.

Now I do also have such thoughts and sometimes I cry a lot even.But frankly speaking it didnt get this severe and somehow we all are used to the sins we do everyday like music and all.This person here was so sensitive that even the slightest of sin made him crazy. So what are your thoughts on this? he however did a major sin before departing from this world, however no one knows what Allah has planned for him or maybe he can be forgived.

waslam.

the Imams have said the worst sin is to lose hope in God, so unfortunately your neighbour committed the worst sin possible and hopefully this should be a lesson to everyone here that no matter what you do NEVER lose hope in God's mercy ever no MATTER what happened in your life or what evil you did , if a person truly repents and changes his way there is room for forgiveness as long as he is sincere

even if after he changes and returns back to sin and then changes again and then return back to sin and still continues to change back and have hope in God's mercy your still good for as long as you believe this you have a chance

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

:bismillah:

وَعِبَادُ ٱلرَّحۡمَٰنِ ٱلَّذِينَ يَمۡشُونَ عَلَى ٱلۡأَرۡضِ هَوۡنٗا وَإِذَا خَاطَبَهُمُ ٱلۡجَٰهِلُونَ قَالُواْ سَلَٰمٗا 

:ws:

Edited by Mahdavist

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, Hussaini1912 said:
3 hours ago, hasanhh said:

it appears that you are letting your empathy/sympathy takeover.

can you explain it what you mean here?

Yes.  The OP appears trying to understand his friend by "putting himself in his friend's shoes", imagining his friends thoughts/feelings and is now getting himself 'infected' with misplaced grief.

Offhand, this is the best l can write at the moment.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 hours ago, Hussaini1912 said:

image.png.890e422a2230aa91a20333c932b2c698.png

I hope you all are with good health. So recently in my neighborhood a young man of about the age of 25 committed suicide.His parents told that apparently he had no psychological issue or depression, that would cause him to do so. However they told that he used to consider himself a bad human being, a sinful Muslim.It was to such extent that whenever he used to do wuzu he never held Qur'an in his hand because he thought that he was najis or ghalees from inside. He used to think and cry that he is not worthy to pray namaz or even go to masjid. So these thoughts were getting severe. He tried his best not to do sin but whenever he did one he couldnt forgive himself or he used to think that Allah didnt forgive him or is angry with what he did.His parents were first happy that their son is a thoughtful Muslim. But later on they tried to explain him that being a human its our nature to do sins and no one is perfect except Allah or the Prophets and their Children. But it didnt had any effect on him.The maulvi refused to pray his Namaz e Janaza, so his father did. He was their only son.

Now I do also have such thoughts and sometimes I cry a lot even.But frankly speaking it didnt get this severe and somehow we all are used to the sins we do everyday like music and all.This person here was so sensitive that even the slightest of sin made him crazy. So what are your thoughts on this? he however did a major sin before departing from this world, however no one knows what Allah has planned for him or maybe he can be forgived.

waslam.

Salam,

I just can't believe that I read this. Wallah this is so upsetting. Part of me wishes I could have helped him because I went through  the exact same thing, but like you said he was stubborn and he refused to listen. 

I think this might a very severe form of OCD. It is termed as 'guilt sensitivity', where one has to carry the feeling of guilt for even the slightest sin. Guilt in Islam is what strengthens our imaan and makes us good human beings , but for it to go this far, I mean I don't even know what to say. But I have never heard that this form of OCD could lead to suicide. 

I am trying to write a book about it, because I feel like OCD (especially religious) are one of those mental issues not taken that seriously. This is probably because it happens with alot of Muslims and it is seen as a normal thing. But in some cases it can get severe, hence we shouldn't ignore it.  And that's the problem within most conserved societies where mental health is viewed so scarcely. They think that it has to do with lack of faith, but in most cases that's not usually the reason. They just tend to ignore the environmental factors around them. This brother (may Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) forgive him and grant him Jannah) had extremely high levels of faith and yet he still felt like a sinner. He couldn't digest the fact that he was human just like everybody else. 

I can't imagine how hard it must be for his family. May Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) make it easy for them and May He grant him Jannah, Ameen. 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest Pschological Warfare
Quote

The problem with humans and especially theists is that we were never taught to think for ourselves. We get conditioned by fear

It is your misunderstanding or lack of comprehensive knowledge that caused you to make a wrong conclusion. There is no "I" in a team, as you are aware that this is the mantra of the corporate world or any team or a country.

The "System" ( Country/Corporation/Team/Community) they are marketing this slogan. So, I do not see which system is teaching you to only think for yourself- maybe you are impressed by the false ideology of  Darwinism/Atheism. Or it is the Corporate/national salves that are told that there is no "I" in a team, while the elite follow survival of the fittest- There is no team it's all about "me". Fool the masses while we accumulate wealth, power and keep them in perpetual  physical and mental slavery. 

Humanity will not survive if it was for "Me" only mentality- for example  WW1, WW11 and the current WW3-aka economic world war. So, you are peddling failed systems to the masses. 

We do not get conditioned by fear- its the same thing as telling someone who smokes that you will be in eternal hell ( cancer), or someone who uses too much sugar/sweats that you will be in eternal hell( Diabetes ) or someone who uses to much salt that you will be in eternal hell ( Hypertension) - all these initial outcomes will worsen their bodies and it will lead to other secondary Diseases( No turning back)  - meaning a little extra sugar/sweat intake on daily basis - a little sin will cause eternal damnation. Yes, people are informed. No one in their right mind will call highlighting the danger of some thing apparently not seen harmful (like extra intake sugar/sweat/salt)  as installing fear. It is called we care so we inform you of the severe consequences. 

Quote

 some idiots think they have figured out the truth, while all they do is parrot and give the masses the impression that they apparently are the saviours of mankind. 

Darwinist/Atheist are not considered saviours? they sure seen to dedicate time to preach to  the world that they have the truth and you are on the wrong path? 

Darwinist/Atheistic mentality leads one to have no purpose beyond the obvious and once that does not result in some form of happiness/gain/win it is downhill form that point, as there was not initial purpose of their creation- A purposeless life mentality is at the core of these mental issues/self-destruct mentality. 

Modern day version of human sacrifice only difference it that the ideology compels them to the alter of their gods (desires)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest Pschological Warfare
45 minutes ago, 3wliya_maryam said:

I am trying to write a book about it, because I feel like OCD (especially religious) are one of those mental issues not taken that seriously. This is probably because it happens with alot of Muslims and it is seen as a normal thing. But in some cases it can get severe, hence we shouldn't ignore it.  And that's the problem within most conserved societies where mental health is viewed so scarcely. They think that it has to do with lack of faith, but in most cases that's not usually the reason. They just tend to ignore the environmental factors around them. This brother (may Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) forgive him and grant him Jannah) had extremely high levels of faith and yet he still felt like a sinner. He couldn't digest the fact that he was human just like everybody else. 

I do not understand your connection. If one has high level of faith and they felt like sinners. They will commit the biggest Sin- by taking something that they do not own- (Their life)? 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 minutes ago, Guest Pschological Warfare said:

I do not understand your connection. If one has high level of faith and they felt like sinners. They will commit the biggest Sin- by taking something that they do not own- (Their life)? 

I know it doesn't make sense and I never heard anything like this before. They feel like as much as they try to please God and keep up with their prayers, they think its not enough or that they're still sinning. Alot of the youth tend to misunderstand the fact that God is not a strict being, and in some cases there are conservative societies that make Islam seem like a complicated religion when its not. But this is the first time I ever heard something like this where it lead to someone killing themself. I don't think the suicide part had to do with OCD. The thoughts he was getting was related to OCD but I think it most likely had to with environmental surroundings. It does not make sense, was he aware about the fact that suicide is a grave sin? Or maybe did he think that Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) was not pleased with him either way so he chose to end his life? Allahu a'lam

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Just now, Hussaini1912 said:

Yeah I think this matter should be taken seriously, I feel the same thing

a possible reason is that religious OCD is what many Muslims go through, hence they think it shouldn't be considered something serious because its common. But it can have its severities and the story of that brother you shared with us is an example

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Just now, 3wliya_maryam said:

But this is the first time I ever heard something like this where it lead to someone killing themself. I don't think the suicide part had to do with OCD. The thoughts he was getting was related to OCD but I think it most likely had to with environmental surroundings. It does not make sense, was he aware about the fact that suicide is a grave sin? Or maybe did he think that Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) was not pleased with him either way so he chose to end his life? Allahu a'lam

Yeah this is the first time I also heard about it. However as he was a paki, and ik the society here so he might have faced some other difficulties as well such as bullying being degraded etc. However such psychological issues should be dealt thats what I beleive

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Just now, 3wliya_maryam said:

a possible reason is that religious OCD is what many Muslims go through, hence they think it shouldn't be considered something serious because its common. But it can have its severities and the story of that brother you shared with us is an example

Like once I shared with my parents that I cry that im not a ood Shia and how will I face Imam Ali((عليه السلام)). I was I guess 13 so my parents laughed and did not took it serious. That is when I realised this problem isnt taken serious in our society.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest Pschological Warfare
2 minutes ago, 3wliya_maryam said:

I know it doesn't make sense and I never heard anything like this before. They feel like as much as they try to please God and keep up with their prayers, they think its not enough or that they're still sinning. Alot of the youth tend to misunderstand the fact that God is not a strict being, and in some cases there are conservative societies that make Islam seem like a complicated religion when its not. But this is the first time I ever heard something like this where it lead to someone killing themself. I don't think the suicide part had to do with OCD. The thoughts he was getting was related to OCD but I think it most likely had to with environmental surroundings. It does not make sense, was he aware about the fact that suicide is a grave sin? Or maybe did he think that Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) was not pleased with him either way so he chose to end his life? Allahu a'lam

Even if what they are doing is not enough or their version of God is strict - all this does not amount to them taking their own life. If what you say is true it would mean after this life - I will be judged. 

Religion, teaches patience, perseverance, an uphill battle with the self, no where it say- you exit. This notion is false.

We start with 

bismillah.gif

 

[Pickthal 1:1] In the name of Allah, the Beneficent, the Merciful.

So, when you have the start of everything with this reminder. You can't allow people to fool you that it was religion.

Maybe it was the sense of purposeless and meaningless life if certain physical,social or career/monetary/status /peer acceptance bench marks were not achieved, this leads to Exit. 

hurr al- riyahi committed the worst crime that he was the cause of the halt at Karbala, yet he was saved. read up on Zuhair bin al-qain how he was saved. So we have ample examples to understand, that your end counts. 

Iblis's start was good but the end was bad.  

https://www.al-Islam.org/event-taff-earliest-historical-account-tragedy-Karbala-Abu-mikhnaf/day-ashura#return-hurr-al-riyahi

https://www.al-Islam.org/event-taff-earliest-historical-account-tragedy-Karbala-Abu-mikhnaf/day-ashura#speech-zuhair-bin-al-qain

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest Pschological Warfare
12 minutes ago, 3wliya_maryam said:

a possible reason is that religious OCD is what many Muslims go through, 

Again, Kindly  articulate this "religious OCD"? 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, Hussaini1912 said:

That is when I realised this problem isnt taken serious in our society.

Somewhat is l believe. See dw.com "Kickoff" the "Special: Robert Enke". He was a goalie that suffered from depression but was afraid it would become known. He committed suicide. The doctor interviewed explained how depression is a chemical imbalance illness like several other bodily diseases/infirmities.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It sounds very much like he suffered from depression. Having depression should not be considered shameful. It could happen to anybody and with the help of Allah you can overcome it.
Suicide just doesn't make sense from an Islamic perspective. Even if you think you are a big sinner, killing your self will end your possibility to improve. It will remove your possibility to pray for Allahs forgiveness and it will bar you from doing good deeds that may counter your sins. And if you are such a big sinner as you think the only thing you can look forward to in the Akhirah is the worse option. So why not escape it as long as possible.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
20 hours ago, hasanhh said:

Which aspect then?

Okay , so when I did'nt knew about this story, I was suffering from such thoughts similar to those that victim had. So I thought that it was only me who had these thoughts. But when this story came up , I for a moment was shocked that these thoughts led him to do this. And I was having same similar thoughts and maybe I could have done the same thing? who knows I am a big procrastinator and an over thinker. But I read some articles and books like " Forty Rules Of Love" which changed my perspective and I used those thoughts constructively. However after hearing this incident I felt that what if I knew it before about him , and could have helped him get out of this, just because there was no one who he could have talked to or to share with, which is a very hopeless situation I went through, maybe this would not happened.

I have been active in my holidays on many forums and website like "7 cups" where I used my sufferings and experiences or in other word you can say depression, to help others to understand others, to help them get out of what I went through or make them happy in other words so that they wont experience what I did. So that it can alternatively cure me and give me inner peace aswell.Because I know how hopeless and depressing situations there are, where you hate yourself and everything to such an extent that this"suicide" can happen. Seriously you feel like to explode the whole world:grin:.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You are posting as a guest. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.


×
×
  • Create New...