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Mastrubation in Islam

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Masturbation in Islam

 

 بسم الله الرحمن الرحيم

 

السَّلاَمُ عَلَيْكُمْ وَرَحْمَةُ اللهِ وَبَرَكَاتُهُ

 

Content:

-Is it haram?

 

-What are the advantages of not doing it?

 

-Is it harmful if you do not do it?

 

-How do you get rid of this disease?

 

 

- Is it haram?

 

Fatwa Ayatollah  Sayid Sadiq Hussani al-Shirazi:

My question is with regards to masturbation. My wife and I live apart for reasons currently beyond our control and thus we cannot be intimate in person. Is it permissible to masturbate while we speak to each other or is this forbidden just as normal masturbation is forbidden?

 

Masturbation is forbidden in Islam. Imam Sadiq ((عليه السلام)) said: He who masturbates is as if he has done Zina with himself.

 

 

- What are the advantages of not doing it?

 

 

The advantages (general)

 

• more energy in everyday life

• more sexual energy in marriage

• more desire for sex / marriage

• desire the partner more

• Sex is more intense and satisfying

• Lower voice

• greater motivation in all areas

• greater self-discipline

• Better body language

• better sleep

• Mental and mental clarity

• Appreciation of the inner and outer beauty of women

• increase in testosterone

• The feeling of living life to the fullest.

• Intelligent - mental clarity and precision

• higher productivity

• mental clarity

• Discipline and motivation to eat healthier

• better charisma and charisma

• Better stamina

• Increased sensitivity

• brighter / more alert eyes

• better eye contact

• better posture

• greater self-confidence

• better relationship with fellow human beings

• reduction of shyness (social anxiety)

• brain grows again after abandoning porn (https://www.praxisvita.de/machen-pornos-dumm-7987.html)

 

The advantages (men-specific)

 

• deeper voice

• Pimples and blackheads go back / purer skin

• greater motivation to marry

• feel "masculine"

• Women show more interest

• improved image of women

• Erection problems disappear

The benefits (women-specific)

 

• increased sensitivity

• Possibility of orgasm through sex (vaginal orgasm)

• greater desire for sex / marriage

• feel "feminine"

Dear siblings, you see here a whole list of no-fap participants and of my personal experience, how important it is to stop this shamefulness. The people came back to forces that their ancestors had at that time. I mean the ancestors 70-80 years ago. There was no such porn industry and widespread masturbation. The men were "real" men and the women were perverted, honorable women. Check out the society today, what this pervision has done. Our society has broken with it. One is already an outsider, if one does not do this. Today's society reminds me of the people of Noah as., As all view self-satisfied, Zina did, Sodomomie operated and of course still homosexuality. We are heading for the end. Before 70- 80 years we did not have this immoral society. At least be the "true" servants of Allah in the end times.

- Is it harmful if you do not do it?

Unfortunately, there is a big myth that masturbation is necessary so you do not get prostate cancer. But this is a big lie on the part of the porn industry, so they have more viewers on their films. The matter has not been fully investigated and do you really believe that Allah the omniscient forbids us something that is healthy and becomes harmful then ????https://www.medizin-transparent.at/prostatakrebsselbstbefriedigung

 

- How do you get rid of this disease?

 

My dear siblings, first of all we have to talk these things bad. Especially among boys, things are going well next to little kids. Imagine how great your sin is, because after that the little boy who stood beside you and listened to you, also started with it. All the sins are charged and the sins that are spread because of it. Even if one does it, one should say that one does not do it, because sins must not be said publicly and society does not consider that normal.

But if you are already dependent on it. Then you have a long way to go. Do not make the mistake bitterly and say: tomorrow I will stop altogether. It does not work. It can last up to a year. You should have several smaller goals. For starters, do not mastrubate for just one day and try so long (even if you can not start again) until it's normal for you to mastrub every other day. And that goes on and on, until it's normal not to mastrub several days. The blessed month of Ramadhan is a key moment. A few days before Ramadan you should stop mastring and the whole month of Ramadhan will be very easy for you. You have to constantly busy my siblings. You may still be under pressure while fasting, but you still would not, because you do not want to chop 60 days. After breaking the fast you only have to endure a short time, which is very easy. After the month of Ramadhan, you have endured for at least 30 days. After that, you already have the great motivation to continue and the way is free until marriage is no longer mastrubing. You will of course have some pressure from time to time, but a pressure that is very easy to control and where you do not think: I have to do it now.

May Allah help you with the path to healing Zina's-disease and reward you abundantly with success

السَّلاَمُ عَلَيْكُمْ وَرَحْمَةُ اللهِ وَبَرَكَاتُهُ

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On 11/8/2019 at 3:17 AM, Anonymous1234 said:

Masturbation in Islam

 

 بسم الله الرحمن الرحيم

 

السَّلاَمُ عَلَيْكُمْ وَرَحْمَةُ اللهِ وَبَرَكَاتُهُ

 

Content:

-Is it haram?

 

-What are the advantages of not doing it?

 

-Is it harmful if you do not do it?

 

-How do you get rid of this disease?

 

 

- Is it haram?

 

Fatwa Ayatollah  Sayid Sadiq Hussani al-Shirazi:

My question is with regards to masturbation. My wife and I live apart for reasons currently beyond our control and thus we cannot be intimate in person. Is it permissible to masturbate while we speak to each other or is this forbidden just as normal masturbation is forbidden?

 

Masturbation is forbidden in Islam. Imam Sadiq ((عليه السلام)) said: He who masturbates is as if he has done Zina with himself.

 

 

- What are the advantages of not doing it?

 

 

The advantages (general)

 

• more energy in everyday life

• more sexual energy in marriage

• more desire for sex / marriage

• desire the partner more

• Sex is more intense and satisfying

• Lower voice

• greater motivation in all areas

• greater self-discipline

• Better body language

• better sleep

• Mental and mental clarity

• Appreciation of the inner and outer beauty of women

• increase in testosterone

• The feeling of living life to the fullest.

• Intelligent - mental clarity and precision

• higher productivity

• mental clarity

• Discipline and motivation to eat healthier

• better charisma and charisma

• Better stamina

• Increased sensitivity

• brighter / more alert eyes

• better eye contact

• better posture

• greater self-confidence

• better relationship with fellow human beings

• reduction of shyness (social anxiety)

• brain grows again after abandoning porn (https://www.praxisvita.de/machen-pornos-dumm-7987.html)

 

The advantages (men-specific)

 

• deeper voice

• Pimples and blackheads go back / purer skin

• greater motivation to marry

• feel "masculine"

• Women show more interest

• improved image of women

• Erection problems disappear

The benefits (women-specific)

 

• increased sensitivity

• Possibility of orgasm through sex (vaginal orgasm)

• greater desire for sex / marriage

• feel "feminine"

Dear siblings, you see here a whole list of no-fap participants and of my personal experience, how important it is to stop this shamefulness. The people came back to forces that their ancestors had at that time. I mean the ancestors 70-80 years ago. There was no such porn industry and widespread masturbation. The men were "real" men and the women were perverted, honorable women. Check out the society today, what this pervision has done. Our society has broken with it. One is already an outsider, if one does not do this. Today's society reminds me of the people of Noah as., As all view self-satisfied, Zina did, Sodomomie operated and of course still homosexuality. We are heading for the end. Before 70- 80 years we did not have this immoral society. At least be the "true" servants of Allah in the end times.

- Is it harmful if you do not do it?

Unfortunately, there is a big myth that masturbation is necessary so you do not get prostate cancer. But this is a big lie on the part of the porn industry, so they have more viewers on their films. The matter has not been fully investigated and do you really believe that Allah the omniscient forbids us something that is healthy and becomes harmful then ????https://www.medizin-transparent.at/prostatakrebsselbstbefriedigung

 

- How do you get rid of this disease?

 

My dear siblings, first of all we have to talk these things bad. Especially among boys, things are going well next to little kids. Imagine how great your sin is, because after that the little boy who stood beside you and listened to you, also started with it. All the sins are charged and the sins that are spread because of it. Even if one does it, one should say that one does not do it, because sins must not be said publicly and society does not consider that normal.

But if you are already dependent on it. Then you have a long way to go. Do not make the mistake bitterly and say: tomorrow I will stop altogether. It does not work. It can last up to a year. You should have several smaller goals. For starters, do not mastrubate for just one day and try so long (even if you can not start again) until it's normal for you to mastrub every other day. And that goes on and on, until it's normal not to mastrub several days. The blessed month of Ramadhan is a key moment. A few days before Ramadan you should stop mastring and the whole month of Ramadhan will be very easy for you. You have to constantly busy my siblings. You may still be under pressure while fasting, but you still would not, because you do not want to chop 60 days. After breaking the fast you only have to endure a short time, which is very easy. After the month of Ramadhan, you have endured for at least 30 days. After that, you already have the great motivation to continue and the way is free until marriage is no longer mastrubing. You will of course have some pressure from time to time, but a pressure that is very easy to control and where you do not think: I have to do it now.

May Allah help you with the path to healing Zina's-disease and reward you abundantly with success

السَّلاَمُ عَلَيْكُمْ وَرَحْمَةُ اللهِ وَبَرَكَاتُهُ

I have a question........

if a woman (wife) gives hand job to a man (husband) then it is haram or not ?

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Ws

Not Haram. Husband and wife can perfrom anything to each other as they wish. 

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On 11/7/2019 at 9:47 PM, Anonymous1234 said:

What are the advantages of not doing it?

Nope lol.

 

Secondly. 

On 11/7/2019 at 9:47 PM, Anonymous1234 said:

Is it harmful if you do not do it?

Unfortunately, there is a big myth that masturbation is necessary so you do not get prostate cancer. But this is a big lie on the part of the porn industry, so they have more viewers on their films. The matter has not been fully investigated and do you really believe that Allah the omniscient forbids us something that is healthy and becomes harmful then ????

What you have written is just for masturbation, it's not talking about "is it harmful if you don't masturbate AND if you don't have sex". And the truth is yes it is harmful. In the Prophet's time people would get married in their teens they would obviously have sex and there wouldn't be any issues. But now that's not the case and most of the time people must abstain for about 10 years. Think about it, if people in the Prophet's time had sexual relations 10 years younger than people today today then maybe there we will have health problems. Even 50 years ago people were marrying a few years younger. 

Yes God forbids masturbation (most likely for mental and relationship reasons). But allows halal sex. If someone isn't masturbating or having sex for so many years they're probably going to have psychological problems and health problems too which should probably be investigated. (of course these 2 statements just apply to the unlucky boys, who have high sex drives). 

 

Edited by Ali~J

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7 hours ago, Moalfas said:

Ws

Not Haram. Husband and wife can perfrom anything to each other as they wish. 

Ws

Husand and wife can perform anything but not Haram thing like they cannot drink alcohol while having sex.

So if you say that wife can masturbate her husband then masturbation is not haram.

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14 hours ago, Ibn Al-Shahid said:

Your logic is incorrect. Masturbation is the simulation of sex. What masturbation does is stimulate the nerves that would be stimulated during intercourse. The reason SELF masturbation is Haram is because of the psychological and social affects it has on the person. As long as your significant other is performing the act, it is makes no difference whether they use their sex organs or hands.

I agree

My logic is incorrect.

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The Qur'an does not mention masturbation. Neither as a sin nor otherwise.
The Bible, more specifically the Old Testament (or the Torah), prohibits masturbation. It is most likely from there Islamic scholars has incorporated the masturbation ban into Islam.
The reason for the ban on masturbation in the Bible is that Onan (the guy who is said to have done this) wasted his seamen on the ground. Seamen with which he could otherwise have made a woman pregnant. So the masturbation ban in the Bible is first and foremost for men not to ejaculate. The ban does therefore not apply to women.

The Qur'an Sura 3 Al Imran ayat 78 says about the Jews: 

"وَإِنَّ مِنْهُمْ لَفَرِيقًا يَلْوُونَ أَلْسِنَتَهُم بِالْكِتَابِ لِتَحْسَبُوهُ مِنَ الْكِتَابِ وَمَا هُوَ مِنَ الْكِتَابِ وَيَقُولُونَ هُوَ مِنْ عِندِ اللَّـهِ وَمَا هُوَ مِنْ عِندِ اللَّـهِ وَيَقُولُونَ عَلَى اللَّـهِ الْكَذِبَ وَهُمْ يَعْلَمُونَ"

"There is a group of them who alter their voice while reading out a text [that they have themselves authored], so that you may suppose it to be from the Book, though it is not from the Book, and they say, ‘It is from Allah,’ though it is not from Allah, and they attribute lies to Allah, and they know [it]"

So maybe you should ask your marji' how come masturbation is a sin when it is not mentioned in the Qur'an.

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4 hours ago, Revert1963 said:

The Qur'an does not mention masturbation. Neither as a sin nor otherwise.
The Bible, more specifically the Old Testament (or the Torah), prohibits masturbation. It is most likely from there Islamic scholars has incorporated the masturbation ban into Islam.
The reason for the ban on masturbation in the Bible is that Onan (the guy who is said to have done this) wasted his seamen on the ground. Seamen with which he could otherwise have made a woman pregnant. So the masturbation ban in the Bible is first and foremost for men not to ejaculate. The ban does therefore not apply to women.

The Qur'an Sura 3 Al Imran ayat 78 says about the Jews: 

"وَإِنَّ مِنْهُمْ لَفَرِيقًا يَلْوُونَ أَلْسِنَتَهُم بِالْكِتَابِ لِتَحْسَبُوهُ مِنَ الْكِتَابِ وَمَا هُوَ مِنَ الْكِتَابِ وَيَقُولُونَ هُوَ مِنْ عِندِ اللَّـهِ وَمَا هُوَ مِنْ عِندِ اللَّـهِ وَيَقُولُونَ عَلَى اللَّـهِ الْكَذِبَ وَهُمْ يَعْلَمُونَ"

"There is a group of them who alter their voice while reading out a text [that they have themselves authored], so that you may suppose it to be from the Book, though it is not from the Book, and they say, ‘It is from Allah,’ though it is not from Allah, and they attribute lies to Allah, and they know [it]"

So maybe you should ask your marji' how come masturbation is a sin when it is not mentioned in the Qur'an.

The Prophet ((صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم)) is the one who said masturbation is haram, one of his companions said he wanted to masturbate, the Prophet ((صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم)) said no and instead, he told him to do mutah. 

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5 hours ago, Diaz said:

The Prophet ((صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم)) is the one who said masturbation is haram, one of his companions said he wanted to masturbate, the Prophet ((صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم)) said no and instead, he told him to do mutah. 

You don't have that claim from the Qur'an. People have made up many hadiths to suit their own purpose. Even if that particular hadith is genuine it still doesn't say so in the Qur'an. If Allah wanted masturbation to be haram why didn't he make sure that it was in the Qur'an?

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5 hours ago, Diaz said:

one of his companions said he wanted to masturbate, the Prophet ((صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم)) said no and instead, he told him to do mutah. 

Not sure who told you about that, but if you would have shown that to people who follow no religion, I am sure they laugh whole day, reading it they way I read it. 

3 minutes ago, Revert1963 said:

You don't have that claim from the Qur'an. People have made up many hadiths to suit their own purpose. Even if that particular hadith is genuine it still doesn't say so in the Qur'an. If Allah wanted masturbation to be haram why didn't he make sure that it was in the Qur'an?

There have been many discussions about this already both from hadith and Qur'an. Not to mention that all ayatullah forbid it, and they have most knowledge of Qur'an and hadith, Islamic literatures. 

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41 minutes ago, Revert1963 said:

You don't have that claim from the Qur'an. People have made up many hadiths to suit their own purpose. Even if that particular hadith is genuine it still doesn't say so in the Qur'an. If Allah wanted masturbation to be haram why didn't he make sure that it was in the Qur'an?

The Qur'an doesn’t mention how many Riqaa in each prayer. Guess we should just do a few here and a few there.

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2 hours ago, AkhiraisReal said:

Not sure who told you about that, but if you would have shown that to people who follow no religion, I am sure they laugh whole day, reading it they way I read it. 

This hadiths is about the permissible of mutah. And since when we should worry about the atheists? They always laugh at us lol.

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9 hours ago, AkhiraisReal said:

There have been many discussions about this already both from hadith and Qur'an. Not to mention that all ayatullah forbid it, and they have most knowledge of Qur'an and hadith, Islamic literatures. 

Just because some scholar or even all the scholars said something doesn't mean that it is in the Qur'an. I do not park my brain just because some scholar tells me to park it. Scholars are people too and as people they have their biases. Allah is the only one worthy of worship. Scholars are not.
 

9 hours ago, Ibn Al-Shahid said:

The Qur'an doesn’t mention how many Riqaa in each prayer. Guess we should just do a few here and a few there.

I believe that at the end of the day it is the intention that matters. Not the details of prayer. Different schools pray different anyway and if I am not mistaken I think the Ismaili's only make Dua and not Sujud. The way people pray is just different traditions who has evolved. Some people has felt the need to justify the way they do thing and so they have fabricated some hadiths to do that and othes has fabricated hadiths to justify their way of praying that contradicts the other ones ones. But it doesn't matter. Tradition has a value in it self for the people who practices it and not all people need to do the same. If Allah cared about anything other than the intention of the prayer he would have send it down with the Qur'an.

Edited by Revert1963

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The only reason why masturbation is haraam is for psychological problems and problems it can cause in relationships eg the wife may get unhappy if she finds out the husband is masturbating instead of having relations with her. And probably also the fact that Allah has made it so that only and man and woman should have sexual relations which each other and not by themselves because that's just how Allah wanted it to be.... 

Masturbation isn't haraam because of physical reasons. In fact not having sexual relations for a long time (from puberty onwards) can lead to prostate cancer in men and can cause things like epididymal hypertension (which I suffer from) maybe even psychological problems. This is why early marriage is recommended so much in Islam and by many Grand Ayatollah's otherwise you'll develop problems. 

However for girls it's much easier, they can restrain themselves for longer periods of time and there's no known physical problems that they can develop... 

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3 hours ago, Revert1963 said:

I believe that at the end of the day it is the intention that matters. Not the details of prayer. Different schools pray different anyway and if I am not mistaken I think the Ismaili's only make Dua and not Sujud. The way people pray is just different traditions who has evolved. Some people has felt the need to justify the way they do thing and so they have fabricated some hadiths to do that and othes has fabricated hadiths to justify their way of praying that contradicts the other ones ones. But it doesn't matter. Tradition has a value in it self for the people who practices it and not all people need to do the same. If Allah cared about anything other than the intention of the prayer he would have send it down with the Qur'an.

This logic is faulty. If everyone prays differently then Hajj would be a joke. There would be nothing binding Muslims together. Regardless of whether you put your arms by your sides or on your stomach, the number of Raqaas are the same for Sunnis and Shia. Like House would say, "It fits". There's more to prayer than "intention". This is a silly liberal reasoning that makes no sense. 

If there are one or two narrations that describe salat then yes I'd agree with you that we have no proof. But there are so many narrations that describe salat from authentic sources. For example, the whole issue with Sahu. The narration speaks about how the Prophet missed a Raqaa. Which means that there's an ascribed number of Raqaat for each Salat.

I don't understand the logic of "if it's not mentioned in the Quraan I don't accept it". Plastic bottles are not mentioned in the Quraan, should be use it?

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2 hours ago, Diaz said:

Are you sure? All the scholars and Marja say’s it’s haram. 

Yeah it's definitely haraam. But I what I meant to say is that it isn't haraam for physical reasons but for other reasons... 

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2 hours ago, Ibn Al-Shahid said:

This logic is faulty.

No! We know that the Qur'an has been sent down as a reminder and to settle the dispute which previous receivers of the message has among them selves. It does not make sense to me that Allah would only send part of the message in the Qur'an and let the rest be up to random people to fill in the blanks with Hadiths written 200 years after the Prophet(صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم). It is logic to me Allah would send the entire message that he cares about in the Qur'an. The Qur'an has been mostly preserved (At least since Uthman canonized the Cairo text) the Hadith on the other hand is a rag tag collection of hearsay that scholars do not even agree on which is authentic or not.
The Hadith could be useful in recording a tradition that has developed such as the different ways to do the prayer. (Like when you are Shia the tradition is that we pray with the hands at the side and the head on a Turbah. It's a signpost saying that the person doing it belong to a specific sect. Not a prerequisite for being Muslim let alone going to Jannat ul Firdaus). However even if a hadith is proven authentic it's authority can only be secondary as compared to the Qur'an because the Hadith only describes the tradition and not the message.

To return to the subject of this tread, It is a fact that masturbation is not mentioned in the Qur'an. So masturbation clearly does not matter enough for Allah to include it specifically in the Qur'an.
Some Hadiths indicate that some of the companions of the Prophet(صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم) considered Masturbation sinful and there are other hadiths suggesting that it was a normal thing that people did at the time. It is not unlikely that people disagreed back then. One reason that some of them would have considered masturbation a sin is that many of them was converts from Judaism and had brought the idea with them from the Torah. That would not be the only such case. (stoning as a punishment for adulterers is most likely an other). In that case that is of cause some of the corruption of the message that the Qur'an warns against. 
A more valid argument could be that masturbation is giving in to ones worldly desires. That would have some basis for calling it sin, but it would still be a deduced verdict. Not a clear divine commandment. And while masturbation is giving in to worldly desires, driving around in a BMW is also giving in to worldly desires.

Edited by Revert1963

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1 hour ago, Revert1963 said:

It is a fact that masturbation is not mentioned in the Qur'an. So masturbation clearly does not matter enough for Allah to include it specifically in the Qur'an.

"The believers are... those who protect their sexual organs except from their spouses... Therefore, whosoever seeks more beyond that [in sexual gratification], then they are the transgressors." (23:5-7)

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2 hours ago, Ali~J said:

"The believers are... those who protect their sexual organs except from their spouses... Therefore, whosoever seeks more beyond that [in sexual gratification], then they are the transgressors." (23:5-7)

Neither does that mention masturbation. It first and foremost addresses extramarital sex. You could of cause argue that masturbation is a form of extramarital sex, but the verse does not explicitly say that. The verse does mention "unlawful sexual relations" and relations are normally something that involves other people.

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5 hours ago, Revert1963 said:

Neither does that mention masturbation. It first and foremost addresses extramarital sex. You could of cause argue that masturbation is a form of extramarital sex, but the verse does not explicitly say that. The verse does mention "unlawful sexual relations" and relations are normally something that involves other people.

Salam...

Ayat 23:5,6,7...contain 3 verses

I will focus first at verse 23:5
"And they who guard their private parts."

What do we understand as guarding the private parts.  Maybe it means

1.  Don t show it to others..

2.  Don't misuse it.

3. Don't do zina..  

There are likely list of recommendations / prohibitions on how to guard private parts.

There are exceptions to the above lists, and it mentioned on 25:6

Then Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) says in 25:7, don't seek "beyond that"

"But whoever seeks beyond that, then those are the transgressors"

What are those actions that are "beyond that".

The concern now:

1.  Are the verses just for extramarital sex,  or

2.  Or includes other activities using private parts that are beyond extramarital sex that we need to guard.

Wallahualam.

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13 hours ago, Revert1963 said:

Neither does that mention masturbation. It first and foremost addresses extramarital sex. You could of cause argue that masturbation is a form of extramarital sex, but the verse does not explicitly say that. The verse does mention "unlawful sexual relations" and relations are normally something that involves other people.

The last sentence makes it very clear that any sexual gratification outside marriage whether it's masturbation or fornication is considered a transgression of the law of God.

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2 hours ago, Ali~J said:

The last sentence makes it very clear that any sexual gratification outside marriage whether it's masturbation or fornication is considered a transgression of the law of God.

It still doesn´t explicitly mention masturbation. you will have to make an interpretation to get to that.
It could be interpreted either way, so it is not clear. It all has to do with what presupposed perception you read the text.

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On 11/16/2019 at 11:16 AM, Revert1963 said:

Just because some scholar or even all the scholars said something doesn't mean that it is in the Qur'an. I do not park my brain just because some scholar tells me to park it. Scholars are people too and as people they have their biases. Allah is the only one worthy of worship. Scholars are not.
 

I believe that at the end of the day it is the intention that matters. Not the details of prayer. Different schools pray different anyway and if I am not mistaken I think the Ismaili's only make Dua and not Sujud. The way people pray is just different traditions who has evolved. Some people has felt the need to justify the way they do thing and so they have fabricated some hadiths to do that and othes has fabricated hadiths to justify their way of praying that contradicts the other ones ones. But it doesn't matter. Tradition has a value in it self for the people who practices it and not all people need to do the same. If Allah cared about anything other than the intention of the prayer he would have send it down with the Qur'an.

This is your own assumption. The Qur'an on the other hand says in several places that we should obey Allah and obey the messenger. How do you intend to obey the messenger if you are categorically rejecting hadith?

Wallahu a'lam 

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3 hours ago, Mahdavist said:

The Qur'an on the other hand says in several places that we should obey Allah and obey the messenger. How do you intend to obey the messenger if you are categorically rejecting hadith?

Obeying the messenger of Allah is obeying the message that he received and which is written in the Qur'an.

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Just now, Mahdavist said:

In other words you reject the sunnah completely?

No I don't. Tradition is important for human communities. Forinstance the tradition of prayer, but it is man made. The basis for sharia should be the message of Allah meaning the Qur'an.

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On 11/17/2019 at 1:37 PM, Revert1963 said:

No I don't. Tradition is important for human communities. Forinstance the tradition of prayer, but it is man made. The basis for sharia should be the message of Allah meaning the Qur'an.

So the actions of the Prophet ((صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم)) were made up by him, and not revealed by Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى)? 

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Just now, Mahdavist said:

So the actions of the Prophet ((صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم)) were made up by him, and not revealed by Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى)? 

The Prophet(صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم) was a human being and therefore Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) granted him free will, but that is not really important in connection with the Hadith. The problem is that we can not be sure of the Hadiths because they was narrated by human beings with their own agendas for writing what they did. And even up to 200 years after the events. The only thing we can be sure of is the Qur'an at least if we want to accept that it was revealed by Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) to his messenger(صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم) which is self evident otherwise we wouldn't be Muslims.

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22 minutes ago, Revert1963 said:

The Prophet(صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم) was a human being and therefore Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) granted him free will, but that is not really important in connection with the Hadith. The problem is that we can not be sure of the Hadiths because they was narrated by human beings with their own agendas for writing what they did. And even up to 200 years after the events. The only thing we can be sure of is the Qur'an at least if we want to accept that it was revealed by Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) to his messenger(صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم) which is self evident otherwise we wouldn't be Muslims.

It is important because if we reject the hadith we reject the sunnah of the Prophet, of whom Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) says in the Qur'an that he does not err and that he does not speak out of his own desire. 

Once you look into the Qur'an and how it was compiled, you don't really have a consistent basis to accept one and reject the other. Of course we don't blindly accept each and every narration and they are all subject to scrutiny, but if you categorically reject them altogether then you would either have to stop practicing Islam as taught by the Prophet and the Ahlul Bayt or all your acts of worship are then based on something which you didn't accept (contradiction?)

On the topic or masturbation your argument is that since it is only forbidden by hadith and not by Qur'an it is permissible. By that logic necrophilia would also be permissible.

May Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) protect us from such things.

Wallahu a'lam

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On 11/17/2019 at 2:28 PM, Mahdavist said:

It is important because if we reject the hadith we reject the sunnah of the Prophet, of whom Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) says in the Qur'an that he does not err and that he does not speak out of his own desire. 

The Prophet(صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم) did not speak out of his own desire when he delivered the message that Allah(سُبْحَانَهُ وَتَعَالَىٰ‎) had send down to him. The Qur'an has mostly been preserved because it was written down with in living memory of the Prophets family and companions. The Hadith was written much later. That is why there is a clear hierarchy between the Qur'an and the hadith. They are not equal. The Qur'an contain the message of Allah. The Hadith contain a compilation of what people 200 years later perceived to be the tradition (or sunnah) of the Prophet and his contemporary's. I am not rejecting the hadith. I think it has a value as tradition. I just don't think it has the same authority as the Qur'an.

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On 11/17/2019 at 4:21 PM, Revert1963 said:

The Prophet(صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم) did not speak out of his own desire when he delivered the message that Allah(سُبْحَانَهُ وَتَعَالَىٰ‎) had send down to him. The Qur'an has mostly been preserved because it was written down with in living memory of the Prophets family and companions. The Hadith was written much later. That is why there is a clear hierarchy between the Qur'an and the hadith. They are not equal. The Qur'an contain the message of Allah. The Hadith contain a compilation of what people 200 years later perceived to be the tradition (or sunnah) of the Prophet and his contemporary's. I am not rejecting the hadith. I think it has a value as tradition. I just don't think it has the same authority as the Qur'an.

We hold that Words of Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى), the Qur'an is the highest authority.  Qur'an requires interpreter that can tell us the exact meanings. The Prophet is one of the Interpreters. 

Hadiths that explain the meaning of Qur'an (explaining the message) has authority.  We also believe that hadiths must be compared to Qur'an and those hadiths that contradict to the message of Qur'an are to be rejected.

We also cannot accept the concept that anyone can just interpret the message of Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) (Qur'an) freely and not protected.  People can research and suggest but cannot claim the authority on it.

We also believe that the Just Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) will not leave the Qur'an (message) without approved interpreters.  The life span of the Messenger is short and the messages from the Qur'an are unlimited.  We must know who are the approved "Talking and walking Qur'an".  If we don't get in touch with them, we are cut off from the message of Qur'an.

"O you who have believed, obey Allah and obey the Messenger and those in authority among you. And if you disagree over anything, refer it to Allah and the Messenger, if you should believe in Allah and the Last Day. That is the best [way] and best in result." (4:59).

Hadiths and Qur'an are just written texts.  However, "the Messenger and those in Authority among you" are living interpreters. We, the Muslims are currently are not agreeing on the "those in Authority among you".

Success is for those who know and following "those in Authority among you".  For them, the message of Qur'an is not cut off.  Others are just loss in the desert, thirsty and all they see are just mirage, and not water.  

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Guest Kalbulzahra

Was. See sura 23 ayah 5-6 from sarf nahw fiqh tasfir shows from Qur'an mastrubatuon is haraam. Imam Sadiq as mentioned these ayah when asked about mastrubatuon.

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