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In the Name of God بسم الله
Moalfas

To All the Proxies on ShiaChat lol

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To all the Iranian proxies on Shiachat:

Iran's 'help' to Iraq was and is to serve its own interests and nothing was free.

 

To all the US/Zionist/KSA proxies on Shiachat:

Iraqis don't want you either lol 

 

To all the regular people on Shiachat:

There's some serious Fitna brewing all around us, so please take it easy and remember: Nothing in politics is black and white

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I remember one expression from British politics  , that is ( Divide , then govern) !!!

So  For acheive to government of Resistant countries , they're doing that expression as realy as Should !!!

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By reading some people on Shiachat it looks like some people just want to be cut off from the rest of the world and just be like an isolate island. Nice. 

It already existed in the past in a country called "Albania" under a president called enver hoxha. Just do some research about it you will see that indeed led to great results. 

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1 hour ago, Moalfas said:

To all the Iranian proxies on Shiachat:

Iran's 'help' to Iraq was and is to serve its own interests and nothing was free.

 

To all the US/Zionist/KSA proxies on Shiachat:

Iraqis don't want you either lol 

 

To all the regular people on Shiachat:

There's some serious Fitna brewing all around us, so please take it easy and remember: Nothing in politics is black and white

There are no Shia proxies simply people saying to not be in favor of violence, I suppose this is how Iraqis are quick to jump to conclusions, quick to judge, gossip and backstab.

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26 minutes ago, Mohammadi_follower said:

By reading some people on Shiachat it looks like some people just want to be cut off from the rest of the world and just be like an isolate island. Nice. 

It already existed in the past in a country called "Albania" under a president called enver hoxha. Just do some research about it you will see that indeed led to great results. 

Switzerland is doing pretty fine as an isolationist country I'd say. It remained neutral even in the middle of WW2 and with German threats of invasion. One of the biggest success stories on Earth.

Edited by Sumerian

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13 minutes ago, Sumerian said:

Switzerland is doing pretty fine as an isolationist country I'd say. It remained neutral even in the middle of WW2 and with German threats of invasion. One of the biggest success stories on Earth.

I am waiting to see Iraq becoming an Arab switzerland.... By the way this country became rich by taking money from billionaires and often dictators, so it is great for becoming rich but I am not sure it is so good islamically.

Edited by Mohammadi_follower

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What are Iraqi people's grievances, specifically? All I know is that there were mass protests because of unemployment that somehow ended in violence and hundred or so dead and soe hundred injured?

Tell us please.

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2 hours ago, Mohammadi_follower said:

I am waiting to see Iraq becoming an Arab switzerland.... By the way this country became rich by taking money from billionaires and often dictators, so it is great for becoming rich but I am not sure it is so good islamically.

Taking money from dictators like.. China and UAE? Iran's biggest trading partners? Or is getting EU aid money Islamically permissible?

Trade is trade bruv, you will trade with dictators. There is no way around it.

Edited by Sumerian

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4 minutes ago, ali_fatheroforphans said:

I have my suspicions based on recent moves in Syria but first perhaps the Iraqis will explain and describe the situation, perhaps even specify their grievances with their neighbor.

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46 minutes ago, Sumerian said:

Taking money from dictators like.. China and UAE? Iran's biggest trading partners? Or is getting EU aid money Islamically permissible?

Trade is trade bruv, you will trade with dictators. There is no way around it.

To be honnest I don’t really put UAE and China at the same level than the nazis. Also I was also trying to say that Switzerland succed to have his wealth with riba which I don’t think you really want for your country you who looks to be so much anti-corruption arent you ?

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7 minutes ago, Mohammadi_follower said:

To be honnest I don’t really put UAE and China at the same level than the nazis. Also I was also trying to say that Switzerland succed to have his wealth with riba which I don’t think you really want for your country you who looks to be so much anti-corruption arent you ?

UAE is pretty much committing a genocide in Yemen, and China is committing a genocide of Uyghur Muslims. "Not Nazi" is a pretty low standard to judge by anyway.

If you want to be technical anyway, Khamenei himself said Iranian banks are rabawi (they do charge interest). 

And if you want to get even more technical, it is actually halal to earn ribba from non-Muslims. This is just as a sidepoint. Point is, this is the economic reality today.

And besides, all we were discussing was how neutrality works. Switzerland's neutrality worked, what is your excuse for it? 

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2 minutes ago, Sumerian said:

UAE is pretty much committing a genocide in Yemen, and China is committing a genocide of Uyghur Muslims. "Not Nazi" is a pretty low standard to judge by anyway.

If you want to be technical anyway, Khamenei himself said Iranian banks are rabawi (they do charge interest). 

And if you want to get even more technical, it is actually halal to earn ribba from non-Muslims. This is just as a sidepoint. Point is, this is the economic reality today.

And besides, all we were discussing was how neutrality works. Switzerland's neutrality worked, what is your excuse for it? 

Does Iran encourages genocides commited by China and UAE ? Do you will also have rabawi banks like in Switzerland ? Also this is not like neutrality is moral.... I mean people do horrors and you just don’t care .

Edited by Mohammadi_follower

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6 minutes ago, Mohammadi_follower said:

Does Iran encourages genocides commited by China and UAE ? Do you will also have rabawi banks like in Switzerland ? Also this is not like neutrality is moral.... I mean people do horrors and you just don’t care .

No. And did Switzerland encourage any genocide recently? 

Iraqi banks have more fasad than Swiss banks anyway. In any case, the discussion was about neutrality and you said people do horrors and you just don't care.

No you actually care. Caring doesn't need to come in the form of having militias, you can use the power of trade and diplomacy. 

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7 minutes ago, Sumerian said:

No. And did Switzerland encourage any genocide recently? 

Iraqi banks have more fasad than Swiss banks anyway. In any case, the discussion was about neutrality and you said people do horrors and you just don't care.

No you actually care. Caring doesn't need to come in the form of having militias, you can use the power of trade and diplomacy. 

You were also talking about being like Switzerland. With so much corruption how could be like them ? Neutrality is not sufficent for such projects. I am waiting to see that.

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Guest Basira

If Iraq could become Switzerland it should. But Switzerland didn't become Switzerland just because it one day decided to be Switzerland. How s country turns out depends a lot on its history and regional politics and internal conditions. 

Looking at Iraq I don't see the potential of a Switzerland. There's no country in that region with potential of Switzerland.

Iraq doesn't even have the potential to become like Oman. It's too involved in different winds that no one group can manage and resolve peacefully. Kurdish, Turkish, Iranian, Saudi, American, Ba'thist, Nationalist, Sunni-sectarian, Shi'a-sectarian. And it's knee-deep in decades of blood in itself and with its neighbors. It's networks are really corrupt and after Saddam and war and sectarianism people mentality is fatigued and short-term. There's nothing here of the Swiss spirit or the oasis of Oman.

If it wasn't wishful thinking though I'd choose Switzerland for Iraq or Oman for Iraq.

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6 hours ago, Mohammadi_follower said:

You were also talking about being like Switzerland. With so much corruption how could be like them ? Neutrality is not sufficent for such projects. I am waiting to see that.

Corruption is because of the constitution which allows sectarianism to exist. With change there, corruption can decrease inshallah.

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13 hours ago, Moalfas said:

 

Iraqis don't want you either lol 

 

And what do they want? Other than the end to corruption (lol) and end to mismanagement (lol).

https://lobelog.com/change-of-government-is-unlikely-to-solve-iraqs-problems/

mp,840x830,matte,f8f8f8,t-pad,750x1000,f

Muh, Fr33dom muh inderpendence!

Btw, the very borders of this thing called Iraq was shaped by outsiders post ww1.

Under Saddam Iraq served as a buffer between Persia and the Gulf.

Before that, Iraq served as a bufferzone between Ottoman and Safavid empires. 

How far back do you want to salvage some kind of independence? Abbassid empire? Babylonians?

Iraq will continue to have outsiders meddle in its affairs, and it will continue to serve as a buffer for the long term. 

Yes, some of us understand basics of International Relations, that all states act in self interest. Better Shia Iran than US/Zionists/KSA exterting influence over Baghdad....yes or no? There is no third option, time for a reality check.

 

Although not to be taken literally, to best understand the dynamics of power and independence, refer to the Melian Dialogue between Athens and Melos (who wanted to remain neutral between Athens v Sparta). They did not have that option.

Just as Iraq does not have the luxury to remain neutral and independent of the Yanks and Iran.

https://www.nku.edu/~weirk/ir/melian.html

 

melian-quote.gif

 

Sorry but Iraq is a fragile nation-state, it always was. Ideally they'd decide their own affairs, but powerful states interfere in weak states. That's how the international order works. It's anarchic.

Edited by Propaganda_of_the_Deed

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1 hour ago, Propaganda_of_the_Deed said:

Sorry but Iraq is a fragile nation-state, it always was. Ideally they'd decide their own affairs, but powerful states interfere in weak states. That's how the international order works. It's anarchic.

Pretty sure that's not how Khomeini thought as he was setting up his revolution. Pretty sure his stated goal was to end the "outsider influence" that had been stealing Iranian resources for decades, not choose between the US and the USSR. No?

Edited by Sumerian

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17 minutes ago, Sumerian said:

Pretty sure that's not how Khomeini thought as he was setting up his revolution. Pretty sure his stated goal was to end the "outsider influence" that had been stealing Iranian resources for decades. No?

He also sought to export his revolution to other countries, or the influence/imperium which we see today in Hezb, Hashd, lesser degree in Houthis.

Going back to Realism, Iran is acting in it's self interests, but they can do so as they are the only independent Muslim country left. 

If you are looking for true idealism and justice, you'd only find that under our Imam ajtfs.

For now, despite its sanctions and surrounding by hostile states, Iran's doing the best they can and they have my support and respect.

Edited by Propaganda_of_the_Deed

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19 minutes ago, Propaganda_of_the_Deed said:

He also sought to export his revolution to other countries, or the influence/imperium which we see today in Hezb, Hashd, lesser degree in Houthis.

Going back to Realism, Iran is acting in it's self interests, but they can do so as they are the only independent Muslim country left. 

If you are looking for true idealism and justice, you'd only find that under our Imam ajtfs.

For now, despite its sanctions and surrounding by hostile states, Iran's doing the best they can and they have my support and respect.

That doesn't answer my question bruv, which is "is it possible to be an independent nation seperated from superpowers", my point is if Iran could do it with no allies or support, but just based on people's power, then so can Iraq. That's all.

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Just now, Sumerian said:

That doesn't answer my question bruv, which is "is it possible to be an independent nation seperated from superpowers"

That's because you edited after my initial reply lad. See my quotation. In the context of the bi-polar order you had the so-called non-aligned states. Whether they were "independent" I'll let you decide:

Non-Aligned-movement.jpg?fit=660,335&ssl

1 minute ago, Sumerian said:

my point is if Iran could do it with no allies or support, but just based on people's power, then so can Iraq. That's all.

The difference is Iran is following its own agenda and destiny and going against the dictates of the superpower of the time. That is why I would say Turkey is not fully quite there yet, but semi-independent as it moves away from NATO (which is really United States).

Iraq's protests although based on legit needs and grievances are being infiltrated and steered by external powers. It is not organic and populist as we led to believe. Iraqi intel knew of these months in advance plus plans of a coup. Recently an Emirati spy cell was broken up by Iraqi security. Naturally outsiders will meddle, as in Libnan.

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