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In the Name of God بسم الله
thuglife

Hilloween is a Pagan Holiday!

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Yes, any opportunity to spread love, joy and candy!

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Technically the pagan holiday is Samhain ( spelled different ways). When Catholicism went into the European places it was celebrated, the Church " baptized" it ( and many other pagan festivals, including the northern hemisphere winter solstice ones now associated with Christmastide) and it became All Hallow's Eve ( Hallowe'en) which was the evening before All Saints Day and All Soul's Day ( Nov. 1st and 2nd) .  In North America, Halloween has become the big celebration. In other Catholic countries, All Saints and All Souls are more celebrated . In places such as Mexico they have become conflated with the ancestor honoring celebrations of some indigenous groups as " Days of the Dead" \  " Dias de Los Muertos", etc. Many of those celebrations are beautiful.

If Christians want to toss out every holiday custom rooted in paganism, they will have to toss out an awful lot. I  myself find amusing the folks who disparage Halloween and then put up a HUGE Christmas tree. Lol. That said, my church requires none of this. Celebrate Halloween or don't. ( All Saints is a holy day of obligation, though, so go to church for that.) Put up a Christmas tree or don't. It's your choice. 

In my little town, Halloween is considered a children's celebration and is a big deal. There are pumpkin patch visits for schools, hayrides, art contests, fall festivals, etc. during October prior to the actual evening.  The kids dress up. The adults and town businesses give out candy, small safe toys, or children's books and school supplies. Some give out new toothbrushes to help with cleaning the candy out of little teeth.  There is little of the negative behavior associated with it in some places. So we enjoy it. It's a very happy community time.

Edited by LeftCoastMom
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As a Muslim, it is concerning to "celebrate" a holiday of the Pagans. Like wearing Nike shoes, a company named after polytheist God. Glorifying the whack. So disrespectful.

Perhaps disrespectful to early Christians who were slaughtered by Pagans for Monotheists to celebrate along with the Pagans.

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1 hour ago, thuglife said:

As a Muslim, it is concerning to "celebrate" a holiday of the Pagans.

As a Muslim, I'd be more concerned with sadistic cat fighting videos than bringing children joy and  making them happy with candy. 

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1 hour ago, thuglife said:

As a Muslim, it is concerning to "celebrate" a holiday of the Pagans. Like wearing Nike shoes, a company named after polytheist God. Glorifying the whack. So disrespectful.

Perhaps disrespectful to early Christians who were slaughtered by Pagans for Monotheists to celebrate along with the Pagans.

Well, don't celebrate it then. 

My Church is one of the earliest and is the one that changed it from a pagan festival into a Catholic one. So we don't worry about being disrespectful to ourselves. I don't see too many people celebrating Samhain anymore. Their descendants are in the church pews.

I also seriously doubt anyone in the shoe factory is worshipping Nike. More worried about them using sweatshop labor. I also don't worry about using my Venus razor ,saying the names of several days of the week in English, referring to various planets, plants, and other species,etc. 

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34 minutes ago, Moalfas said:

As a Muslim, I'd be more concerned with sadistic cat fighting videos than bringing children joy and  making them happy with candy. 

My son in law just says he'll stop letting his young son dress up as a lion or a panda and go around to get treats from his relatives "when Muslims stop jumping over fires in Iran". I guess he thinks there's a hypocrisy factor in there somewhere. Lol.

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4 hours ago, LeftCoastMom said:

young son dress up as a lion or a panda and

Last week on the radio was a report on "insensitive" costumes.

No Joke.

So, l guess l cannot wear whiteface to the party Thursday.

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4 hours ago, LeftCoastMom said:

My son in law just says he'll stop letting his young son dress up as a lion or a panda and go around to get treats from his relatives "when Muslims stop jumping over fires in Iran". I guess he thinks there's a hypocrisy factor in there somewhere. Lol.

Hi it’s a cultural celebration before Nowruz & in Shia Islam every cultural celebration that causes visiting families & bringing them closer toghether & people don’t commit any sin approved but Sunni Muslims are specially Wahabists & Salafis are seeing it as a [edited out] celebration against Islam .

Edited by Ashvazdanghe

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3 hours ago, Haji 2003 said:

Far better to celebrate those and bring Islam more deeply into our lives.

Spreading love and joy to children is in fact part of The teachings of Ahlul Bayt (عليه السلام)

Quote

The Qur'an has plenty of references to idolators being wiped out, so why follow in their footsteps, even vicariously?

Halloween as we know it now is a cultural celebration that involves quality time with the children and excited kids getting candy. Hardly something Allah would punish for. In fact Allah would reward any person who made a child happy. 

Quote

Houston we have a problem if our kids know when Halloween/Valentines day etc are, but don't know the birthdays of the Imams ((عليه السلام).)

This issue should be directed at their parents who didn't invest in the time to teach their kids the birthdays of the Imams. 

Halloween is a time for the children to have fun and anyone who makes a child happy in Halloween or on any other occasion will be rewarded. I promise :) 

 

Edited by Moalfas

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7 hours ago, Ashvazdanghe said:

Hi it’s a cultural celebration before Nowruz & in Shia Islam every cultural celebration that causes visiting families & bringing them closer toghether & people don’t commit any sin approved but Sunni Muslims are specially Wahabists & Salafis are seeing it as a [edited out] celebration against Islam .

Super. Same as Halloween here, then. I doubt many folks who celebrate even know the origins of it. The kids certainly don't. SG says the celebrations in Iran  is rooted in the Zoroastrian tradition, which is not Muslim, though. But he doesn't want to just pick on Iranians. Says Arabs and other Muslim communities  have plenty of superstitions they follow as well. So he still thinks it's like " if we Muslims like and use our pre-Islamic pagan cultural traditions, it's fine. But everyone else's are not." 

Edited by LeftCoastMom

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4 hours ago, Moalfas said:

Spreading love and joy to children is in fact part of The teachings of Ahlul Bayt (عليه السلام)

Halloween as we know it now is a cultural celebration that involves quality time with the children and excited kids getting candy. Hardly something Allah would punish for. In fact Allah would reward any person who made a child happy. 

This issue should be directed at their parents who didn't invest in the time to teach their kids the birthdays of the Imams. 

Halloween is a time for the children to have fun and anyone who makes a child happy in Halloween or on any other occasion will be rewarded. I promise :) 

 

I'm not an apologist for Halloween. If you think your religion forbids it, don't do it. If you personally don't like it, don't do it. ( Is this even a big problem outside of the US?) If my son in law had had a problem with it and he and my daughter had  decided not to let our grandson participate, I would have supported them.( I'd still give out candy, though.)

But I agree with you, if you have a religion and your kids don't know it...it's YOUR fault as a parent. Don't blame it on a holiday or the dominant culture or whatever. I can tell you that almost all the little Catholic kids in our parish who are out trick or treating in a couple of days will be in church on Sunday and religious education classes next week. They won't be chanting to any Druidic pantheon.

Edited by LeftCoastMom
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2 hours ago, LeftCoastMom said:

 If you personally don't like it, don't do it.

Indeed. There are the 'uptight' in all faiths; it's just a shame that their kids will feel left out of a fun activity.

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I'm curious, how do Catholics feel about Easter and Christmas? I have a feeling I'd go full Grinch if I were Christian. "Rudolf? Santa? Not a part of MY religion! Bah humbug! We can send prayers to honor St. Nick if you want but that's it!". And then a ghost will show me the error of my ways. Do you know any Catholics that don't celebrate these holidays at all?

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12 minutes ago, Guest window said:

Do you know any Catholics that don't celebrate these holidays at all?

Nope, and much of my family is Catholic. 

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Hallow'een is surepticiously a criminal training operation.

Take an average kid, put a mask on him, send him out alone,he learns to talk people out of "treats" by mentioning "tricks", gets rowdy and gets away with it, and so on.

Some will beome criminals, but the most skilled will be come politicians --as "trick or treat" morphs into "bait and switch".

Edited by hasanhh
spelin' agin'

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14 hours ago, thuglife said:

I sense hostility from you. 

I only pointed out the hypocrisy.

Don't play the 'as a Muslim' card with a harmless and fun filled activity for children when you condone and defend blood sports and cat fighting.

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19 hours ago, Guest window said:

I'm curious, how do Catholics feel about Easter and Christmas? I have a feeling I'd go full Grinch if I were Christian. "Rudolf? Santa? Not a part of MY religion! Bah humbug! We can send prayers to honor St. Nick if you want but that's it!". And then a ghost will show me the error of my ways. Do you know any Catholics that don't celebrate these holidays at all?

You're conflating folk tradition ( some quite recent as " Rudolph " only showed up in a children's song within the last half-century or so and the present incarnation of the American " Santa"...based on the Scandanavian immigrants' version of  the actual 3rd century Saint Nicholas ...is also fairly recent ,within the last 200 years, and not necessarily commonly found outside of North America) with the actual religion. You don't need Santa Claus and reindeer to celebrate Christmas and much of the Catholic world doesn't have them. You don't need any of the folk customs that have grown up in various parts of the Catholic world to celebrate any holy day. They just make it fun. So you can be as Grinch-y as you want and still be a good Catholic.

To put it simply, the early Church  "invented"  Easter and Christmas.  They are both remembrances of the life and story of Jesus, so are both part of our liturgical calendar....why wouldn't we celebrate them? Why wouldn't we want to celebrate the birth and resurrection of our Lord and Savior?  In the case of Easter ( in English...called by other names on other languages), it is a moveable feast that follows the lunar calendar and usually is set somewhere near the time of Passover, when Jesus was crucified and was resurrected. Christmas is a set feast on Dec.25 in the Latin Church. ( We don't spend time talking about St. Nicholas on Christmas. We spend it on the birth narrative of Christ. St. Nick has his own day elsewhere in the church calendar.  Lol.  In some countries you get your gifts on his day or some other day, not Christmas. Christmas liturgies are for Jesus.) Nobody knows the date Jesus was born, so it was set to replace the pagan winter solstice festivals that were happening then anyway. Just like Halloween was set to replace Samhain. A good many other church holy days have nothing to do with pagan festivals,but some do.

Yet every year we have to go through the boring internet conversations with various atheist and other " geniuses" who pop up to "inform " us dumb Catholics and other Christians  of the " secret origins" of Halloween, Christmas, blah, blah...as if we didn't know. The Church repurposed these holidays herself.

Hope this helps.

Edited by LeftCoastMom
grammar

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6 hours ago, Moalfas said:

I only pointed out the hypocrisy.

Don't play the 'as a Muslim' card with a harmless and fun filled activity for children when you condone and defend blood sports and cat fighting.

It appears you are misinformed. 

Cats fighting is natural. They fight and walk away. It’s like a boxing match. It’s in their DNA to do so. It’s a part of a healthy lifestyle.

Depriving them of developing self protection skills may hurt the species in the long run as the animals may lose instinct of self protection.

I remember Listening to an npr podcast years ago about foie gras. Someone made humane foie gras by tricking the geese into thinking they’re wild so that they alway over eat, and someone else tried to copy him in America. The American tried to use geese from a farm, but it did not work because the farmed birds lost the instinct to sit on the eggs after many generations of being farmed. 

https://www.npr.org/sections/thesalt/2016/08/01/487088946/this-spanish-farm-makes-foie-gras-without-force-feeding

So, not letting cats do their natural  instinct of fighting can let them to lose their instinct and and not defend themselves in future generations. 

and you shouldn’t use terms if you don’t know their meaning. “Blood sport.” 

“Sadistic,” they said. 
“Wrong. You lose,” I said.

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Sadistic 'thuglife' indeed.

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'As a Muslim' you said? LOL

 

Edited by Moalfas

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Lol at all these thread jacking trolls. They can’t even reply to the logic. 
 

From defending Pagan rituals to denying animals their natural interactions. What’s next, trying to convincing others that Jesus as partook in Pagan rituals. 

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6 hours ago, thuglife said:

Lol at all these thread jacking trolls. They can’t even reply to the logic. 

Well, it's difficult for others to sympathize with your argument when you conflate Halloween -- which actually might be Haram -- with wearing Nike sneakers --- which is definitely not Haram.

Edit: Also it's just Moalfas (who keep in mind is a new user) who's responding to you.

Edited by AmirioTheMuzzy

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12 hours ago, LeftCoastMom said:

If you live in the US, hope you have a good attorney.

There may well be issues of legality and illegality, but they are quite separate from cruelty or the lack thereof.

As I understand it in the U.S. the tradition was to have domestic cats declawed. Which is pretty horrific to be honest. And in fact the very idea of having an animal bred, kept captive and denied many instinctive behaviours so that some human can have a warm rug is also pretty cruel.

But it is legal.

Edited by Haji 2003

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35 minutes ago, hasanhh said:

That is for house cats.

I guess that makes it easier to keep an animal as a household ornament. since it won't destroy all the other material possessions.

But the ethics stink.

Edited by Haji 2003

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