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In the Name of God بسم الله
shadow_of_light

What do you think of flat earthers?

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1 minute ago, 313 Seeker said:

Sorry if I have been defensive. Wish you all the best on this Earth whatever shape it is, flat or not flat. If you find some killer proofs that the flat earthers haven't been able to answer please share them. Thanks 

Will do, wish you a good and meaningful life in this dunya as well.

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On a more final note in an Islamic forum:

I challenge every Muslim to explain how Earth can be a ball floating in the heavens if the Earth was created prior to the heavens according to Qur'an and also hadith I mentioned above?

If people want to comment about how you can spread out a shape into a ball also let me know. As in farash and maddad. 

 

Salaam and may the Truth be with us

Edited by 313 Seeker

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4 hours ago, 313 Seeker said:

If that is the case then its not 3, but 

Heavens 

Earth

Night 

Day

Sun

Moon

.. that's if you add up all the nouns.

The motion of heavens, day and night is because of the motion of Earth. So we ends up with the motion of 3, Sun, Moon & Earth.

 

2 hours ago, 313 Seeker said:

Can you answer from the Qur'an verse you used, how it shows that the Earth is a ball?

The word "Aqtaar", then the phrase "kullon yajree" which means Earth is not static. Then the phrases "Two Easts" (Mashriqayn), "Two Wests" (Maghribayn). 

2 hours ago, 313 Seeker said:

Whatever argument these people talk about you'll find counter arguments if you sincerely search for about one minute online.

Brother, I am really sorry to tell you that we can observe our solar system with telescopes and we know the size of the Sun, the planets and their motion. 

Its amazing for me to see how you're impressed with their lies.

1 hour ago, 313 Seeker said:

@Cool

If you want to study motion in Qur'an find me a single verse that directly talks about movement of Earth like heavenly bodies like this

لَا الشَّمْسُ يَنبَغِي لَهَا أَن تُدْرِكَ الْقَمَرَ وَلَا اللَّيْلُ سَابِقُ النَّهَارِ ۚ وَكُلٌّ فِي فَلَكٍ يَسْبَحُونَ - 36:40

It is not allowable for the sun to reach the moon, nor does the night overtake the day, but each, in an orbit, is swimming.

 

Earth is usually referred to as stable fixed by mountains and spread out like a bed or carpet. 

Surah An-Noor, Verse 44:
يُقَلِّبُ اللَّهُ اللَّيْلَ وَالنَّهَارَ إِنَّ فِي ذَٰلِكَ لَعِبْرَةً لِّأُولِي الْأَبْصَارِ

Allah turns over the night and the day; most surely there is a lesson in this for those who have sight.
 

This coming & going of day & night in fact has many lessons for those who have sight. Please have a look how flat Earth model explains this phenomena. Its really disgusting! 

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32 minutes ago, 313 Seeker said:

On a more final note in an Islamic forum:

I challenge every Muslim to explain how Earth can be a ball floating in the heavens if the Earth was created prior to the heavens according to Qur'an and also hadith I mentioned above?

Which Earth & which heavens you are talking about? There are many Earths

Surah At-Talaq, Verse 12:
اللَّهُ الَّذِي خَلَقَ سَبْعَ سَمَاوَاتٍ وَمِنَ الْأَرْضِ مِثْلَهُنَّ يَتَنَزَّلُ الْأَمْرُ بَيْنَهُنَّ لِتَعْلَمُوا أَنَّ اللَّهَ عَلَىٰ كُلِّ شَيْءٍ قَدِيرٌ وَأَنَّ اللَّهَ قَدْ أَحَاطَ بِكُلِّ شَيْءٍ عِلْمًا

Allah is He Who created seven heavens, and of the Earth the like of them; the decree continues to descend among them, that you may know that Allah has power over all things and that Allah indeed encompasses all things in (His) knowledge.
(English - Shakir)

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4 minutes ago, Cool said:

Which Earth & which heavens you are talking about? There are many Earths

Surah At-Talaq, Verse 12:
اللَّهُ الَّذِي خَلَقَ سَبْعَ سَمَاوَاتٍ وَمِنَ الْأَرْضِ مِثْلَهُنَّ يَتَنَزَّلُ الْأَمْرُ بَيْنَهُنَّ لِتَعْلَمُوا أَنَّ اللَّهَ عَلَىٰ كُلِّ شَيْءٍ قَدِيرٌ وَأَنَّ اللَّهَ قَدْ أَحَاطَ بِكُلِّ شَيْءٍ عِلْمًا

Allah is He Who created seven heavens, and of the Earth the like of them; the decree continues to descend among them, that you may know that Allah has power over all things and that Allah indeed encompasses all things in (His) knowledge.
(English - Shakir)

Heaven was raised into 7 heavens after Earth. No matter how you imagine it, according to Qur'an heaven came after Earth, regardless of divisions after they were created.

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14 minutes ago, Cool said:

The motion of heavens, day and night is because of the motion of Earth. So we ends up with the motion of 3, Sun, Moon & Earth.

 

The word "Aqtaar", then the phrase "kullon yajree" which means Earth is not static. Then the phrases "Two Easts" (Mashriqayn), "Two Wests" (Maghribayn). 

Brother, I am really sorry to tell you that we can observe our solar system with telescopes and we know the size of the Sun, the planets and their motion. 

Its amazing for me to see how you're impressed with their lies.

Surah An-Noor, Verse 44:
يُقَلِّبُ اللَّهُ اللَّيْلَ وَالنَّهَارَ إِنَّ فِي ذَٰلِكَ لَعِبْرَةً لِّأُولِي الْأَبْصَارِ

Allah turns over the night and the day; most surely there is a lesson in this for those who have sight.
 

This coming & going of day & night in fact has many lessons for those who have sight. Please have a look how flat Earth model explains this phenomena. Its really disgusting! 

Nothing you said explains shape of the Earth like terms used as 'spread', 'wide', etc.

Earth doesn't float like sun and moon. Qur'an is on my side in this 

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7 minutes ago, 313 Seeker said:

Heaven was raised into 7 heavens after Earth.

Surah Al-Anbiya, Verse 30:
أَوَلَمْ يَرَ الَّذِينَ كَفَرُوا أَنَّ السَّمَاوَاتِ وَالْأَرْضَ كَانَتَا رَتْقًا فَفَتَقْنَاهُمَا وَجَعَلْنَا مِنَ الْمَاءِ كُلَّ شَيْءٍ حَيٍّ أَفَلَا يُؤْمِنُونَ

Do not those who disbelieve see that the heavens and the Earth were closed up, but We have opened them; and We have made of water everything living, will they not then believe?
(English - Shakir)

 

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Let us be honest here and refer to Qur'an for those who fear God, @Cool

 

Look at the chronology from Fusilat in Qur'an:

 1. And He placed on the Earth firmly set mountains over its surface 11

2. Then He directed Himself to the heaven while it was smoke and said to it and to the Earth, "Come [into being], willingly or by compulsion." They said, "We have come willingly." 12

3. And He completed them as seven heavens within two days and inspired in each heaven its command. And We adorned the nearest heaven with lamps and as protection. 13

 

As you can see without doubt that Earth is described as stable and that it existed before heaven was still smoke and no 'lights'.

Continue:

Have those who disbelieved not considered that the heavens and the Earth were a joined entity, and We separated them 21:30 

.. so we know two things for fact

1. Earth was before heavens 

2. Heaven was cleared from Earth

Earth like everything was made from water.

And We placed within the Earth firmly set mountains, lest it should shift with them 21:31

 

.. sound like a ball in space to you? 

 

And We made the sky a protected ceiling, but they, from its signs, are turning away. 21:32

 

.. sky a ceiling? Sounds awfully like the firmament in the bible doesn't it? 

 

Some accurate proper Qur'an studies here ..

https://*************wiki/Flat_Earth_and_the_Quran

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2 minutes ago, Cool said:

Surah Al-Anbiya, Verse 30:
أَوَلَمْ يَرَ الَّذِينَ كَفَرُوا أَنَّ السَّمَاوَاتِ وَالْأَرْضَ كَانَتَا رَتْقًا فَفَتَقْنَاهُمَا وَجَعَلْنَا مِنَ الْمَاءِ كُلَّ شَيْءٍ حَيٍّ أَفَلَا يُؤْمِنُونَ

Do not those who disbelieve see that the heavens and the Earth were closed up, but We have opened them; and We have made of water everything living, will they not then believe?
(English - Shakir)

 

That proves my point as I described in my previous point.

Earth came first the m heave  was split from Earth. Make sense according to mainstream?

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12 minutes ago, 313 Seeker said:

Nothing you said explains shape of the Earth like terms used as 'spread', 'wide', etc.

:) Can you buy a telescope?

13 minutes ago, 313 Seeker said:

Earth doesn't float like sun and moon. Qur'an is on my side in this 

Yes some brothers believe that Earth is sitting on someone's head :hahaha:

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3 minutes ago, Cool said:

Yes some brothers believe that Earth is sitting on someone's head :hahaha:

want to laugh at Abu Abdullah's quote here (al kafi vol8 ) :

Quote

This Earth with what is upon it, compared to that which is below it, is like a ring thrown in the desert

 

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1 minute ago, 313 Seeker said:

Then He directed Himself to the heaven while it was smoke

You see, Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) has mentioned the creation of Earth in two days but never mentioned the creation of heaven here. 

Can you just ponder?

Surah Fussilat, Verse 11:
ثُمَّ اسْتَوَىٰ إِلَى السَّمَاءِ وَهِيَ دُخَانٌ فَقَالَ لَهَا وَلِلْأَرْضِ ائْتِيَا طَوْعًا أَوْ كَرْهًا قَالَتَا أَتَيْنَا طَائِعِينَ

Then He directed Himself to the heaven and it is a vapor, so He said to it and to the Earth: Come both, willingly or unwillingly. They both said: We come willingly.
 

No mention of creation of heaven/smoke.

Surah Fussilat, Verse 12:
فَقَضَاهُنَّ سَبْعَ سَمَاوَاتٍ فِي يَوْمَيْنِ وَأَوْحَىٰ فِي كُلِّ سَمَاءٍ أَمْرَهَا وَزَيَّنَّا السَّمَاءَ الدُّنْيَا بِمَصَابِيحَ وَحِفْظًا ذَٰلِكَ تَقْدِيرُ الْعَزِيزِ الْعَلِيمِ

So He ordained them seven heavens in two periods, and revealed in every heaven its affair; and We adorned the lower heaven with brilliant stars and (made it) to guard; that is the decree of the Mighty, the Knowing.
(English - Shakir)

 

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1 minute ago, Cool said:

You see, Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) has mentioned the creation of Earth in two days but never mentioned the creation of heaven here. 

Can you just ponder?

Surah Fussilat, Verse 11:
ثُمَّ اسْتَوَىٰ إِلَى السَّمَاءِ وَهِيَ دُخَانٌ فَقَالَ لَهَا وَلِلْأَرْضِ ائْتِيَا طَوْعًا أَوْ كَرْهًا قَالَتَا أَتَيْنَا طَائِعِينَ

Then He directed Himself to the heaven and it is a vapor, so He said to it and to the Earth: Come both, willingly or unwillingly. They both said: We come willingly.
 

No mention of creation of heaven/smoke.

Surah Fussilat, Verse 12:
فَقَضَاهُنَّ سَبْعَ سَمَاوَاتٍ فِي يَوْمَيْنِ وَأَوْحَىٰ فِي كُلِّ سَمَاءٍ أَمْرَهَا وَزَيَّنَّا السَّمَاءَ الدُّنْيَا بِمَصَابِيحَ وَحِفْظًا ذَٰلِكَ تَقْدِيرُ الْعَزِيزِ الْعَلِيمِ

So He ordained them seven heavens in two periods, and revealed in every heaven its affair; and We adorned the lower heaven with brilliant stars and (made it) to guard; that is the decree of the Mighty, the Knowing.
(English - Shakir)

 

Look you can say whatever you want that is vague, but my argument has solid and direct evidence.

Allah said he created Earth and then heavens. 

Hadiths say the exact same. 

You want to say that heaven was not created after Earth?

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23 minutes ago, 313 Seeker said:

Qur'an is on my side in this 

The extreme level of mental gymnastics needed to believe in that preposterous stuff is simply beyond everyone here, excluding yourself (and your polytheistic friends on their forum).

But of course you will not stop your drivel.

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Just now, 313 Seeker said:

Allah said he created Earth and then heavens

I am asking you to show me where Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) said He has created the heaven which was in the form of smoke, after creating the Earth. 

 

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@Cool also from al kafi 

Quote

He said: ‘And there was no sun, and no moon, and no stars and no clouds. Then He Folded it and Placed it upon the Earth, then Established two creations. Then He Raised the sky before the Earth, so that is His Statement, Mighty is His Mention: “[79:30] And the Earth, He expanded it after that”. He Said that He Spread it out’. ..."

How do you explain no sun no moon but still Earth?

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1 minute ago, Cool said:

I am asking you to show me where Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) said He has created the heaven which was in the form of smoke, after creating the Earth. 

 

Here brother 

The whole thing 

Quote

H 14515 – From him, from Ahmad Bin Muhammad, from Al-Husayn Bin Saeed, from Muhammad Bin Dawood from Muhammad Bin Atiyya who said: 

 

" ‘A man from the scholars of the people of Syria (Al-Shaam) came up to Abu Ja’far .. He Existed when there was nothing other than Him. And He Created the thing from which are all things, and it is the water from which He Created the things. So He Lineage everything to the water and did not Make a lineage for the water to which it can be ascribed. And He Created the wind from the water, then Made the wind to overcome the water. So the wind sent down into the body of the water until foam swirled from the water in accordance with what He so Desired it to swirl. So He Created from that foam, pure white land with no crack in it, nor any holes, neither ascending nor descending, and no tree. Then He Folded it, so He Placed it on top of the water. Then Allah Created the fire from the water, so the fire bust out of the body of the water until smoke arose from the water in accordance with Allah so Desired it to rise. So He Created from that smoke, clear and pure sky in which there were no cracks nor any holes, and that is His Statement: “[79:27] Are you the harder to create or the heaven? He made it. [79:28] He raised high its height, then put it into a right good state. [79:29] And He made dark its night and brought out its light”. He said: ‘And there was no sun, and no moon, and no stars and no clouds. Then He Folded it and Placed it upon the Earth, then Established two creations. Then He Raised the sky before the Earth, so that is His Statement, Mighty is His Mention: “[79:30] And the Earth, He expanded it after that”. He Said that He Spread it out’. ..."

 

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4 minutes ago, Darth Vader said:

The extreme level of mental gymnastics needed to believe in that preposterous stuff is simply beyond everyone here, excluding yourself (and your polytheistic friends on their forum).

But of course you will not stop your drivel.

Why mental acrobatics. The words are on my side. Word like the ones I mentioned above. Check them Jan dictionary if you don't believe me. Check farash for instance. You would have to make more than acrobatics to explain spreading a shape into a ball. 

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5 minutes ago, 313 Seeker said:

He Created the thing from which are all things, and it is the water from which He Created the things. So He Lineage everything to the water and did not Make a lineage for the water to which it can be ascribed. And He Created the wind from the water, then Made the wind to overcome the water. So the wind sent down into the body of the water until foam swirled from the water in accordance with what He so Desired it to swirl. So He Created from that foam, pure white land with no crack in it, nor any holes, neither ascending nor descending, and no tree.

Thank you for proving yourself wrong.

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@Darth Vader want to laugh at Abu jaafar (عليه السلام). ?

He said: ‘And there was no sun, and no moon, and no stars and no clouds. Then He Folded it and Placed it upon the Earth, then Established two creations. Then He Raised the sky before the Earth, so that is His Statement, Mighty is His Mention: “[79:30] And the Earth, He expanded it after that”. He Said that He Spread it out’. ..."

Is that also mental acrobatics and pagan to you?

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1 minute ago, 313 Seeker said:

Please explain exactly how that proves me wrong. 

I have already highlighted the sentence.

3 minutes ago, Cool said:

So He Created from that foam, pure white land with no crack in it, nor any holes, neither ascending nor descending, and no tree.

 

8 minutes ago, 313 Seeker said:

already gave you from Qur'an that heaven was created after Earth, and that heaven was cleft from Earth as they were one. And you ignore hadiths? 

Surah Fussilat, Verse 9:
قُلْ أَئِنَّكُمْ لَتَكْفُرُونَ بِالَّذِي خَلَقَ الْأَرْضَ فِي يَوْمَيْنِ وَتَجْعَلُونَ لَهُ أَندَادًا ذَٰلِكَ رَبُّ الْعَالَمِينَ

Say: What! do you indeed disbelieve in Him Who created the Earth in two periods, and do you set up equals with Him? That is the Lord of the Worlds.
(English - Shakir)

Earth was created in two days

Surah Fussilat, Verse 10:
وَجَعَلَ فِيهَا رَوَاسِيَ مِن فَوْقِهَا وَبَارَكَ فِيهَا وَقَدَّرَ فِيهَا أَقْوَاتَهَا فِي أَرْبَعَةِ أَيَّامٍ سَوَاءً لِّلسَّائِلِينَ

And He made in it mountains above its surface, and He blessed therein and made therein its foods, in four periods: alike for the seekers.
(English - Shakir)

This explains creation of mountains & sustenance 

Surah Fussilat, Verse 11:
ثُمَّ اسْتَوَىٰ إِلَى السَّمَاءِ وَهِيَ دُخَانٌ فَقَالَ لَهَا وَلِلْأَرْضِ ائْتِيَا طَوْعًا أَوْ كَرْهًا قَالَتَا أَتَيْنَا طَائِعِينَ

Then He directed Himself to the heaven and it is a vapor, so He said to it and to the Earth: Come both, willingly or unwillingly. They both said: We come willingly.
(English - Shakir)

Where is the creation of this single heaven which was in the state of vapor/foam/smoke?  Was it created along with Earth, before Earth or when

Surah Fussilat, Verse 12:
فَقَضَاهُنَّ سَبْعَ سَمَاوَاتٍ فِي يَوْمَيْنِ وَأَوْحَىٰ فِي كُلِّ سَمَاءٍ أَمْرَهَا وَزَيَّنَّا السَّمَاءَ الدُّنْيَا بِمَصَابِيحَ وَحِفْظًا ذَٰلِكَ تَقْدِيرُ الْعَزِيزِ الْعَلِيمِ

So He ordained them seven heavens in two periods, and revealed in every heaven its affair; and We adorned the lower heaven with brilliant stars and (made it) to guard; that is the decree of the Mighty, the Knowing.
(English - Shakir)

 

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The truth is simple and easy to grasp as it is laid bare for those who can see. For those who can not see, or will not see, its no use. As in this case, they will just keep on trying to fix a lie on the Qur'an no matter if it just doesn't stick and come up with explanations of their own choice, the one they want. Just like some of them explain away that their "three gods are but one God while being three but while being one simultaneously"

.506685973-dish-antenna-satellite-dish-fascinating-nature-collection-gogol-lobmayr.jpg.b01f14f788ca24581608c2b8e53279db.jpg

I suppose these are for harvesting rain water?

If there was a literate person not from some village among the flat earthers, they would know or they would simply google how radio antennas and specifically a parabolic antenna works and why it matters where it is pointed and how dish TV antennas were/are an industry and part of consumer electronics business. They could telephonically call any person of this field to find out the truth.

But they won't.

They will go on like politicians with their nonsense.

:blabla:

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10 hours ago, 313 Seeker said:

Kafi, H 14564 – Ibn Mahboub, from Abu Ja’far Al-Howl, from Sallaam Bin Al-Mustaneer, who has narrated the following: 

 

Abu Ja’far said: ‘Allah Created the Paradise before He Created the Fire, and Created the obedience before He Created the disobedience, and Created the Mercy before the Anger, and Created the good before the evil, and Created the Earth before the sky ( al 'ard qabl al same' ), and Created the life before the death, and Created the sun before the moon, and Created the ‘al Nour’ (the Divine Light) before the darkness’. 

Salam you must bring Hadith with it's Arabic text because in translation you find fallacy because some names & expression can't translate to english that causes misunderstanding. 

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On 11/2/2019 at 9:41 PM, 313 Seeker said:

Hey brother thanks. I have been on airplanes many times after reading about flat Earth theory, and it is always perfectly flat.

Have you discussed this matter with the Pilot? I think he would have explained you something about atmospheric pressure & altitude. 

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