Jump to content
In the Name of God بسم الله

What do you think of flat earthers?


Recommended Posts

  • Moderators
On 10/26/2019 at 8:26 AM, 313 Seeker said:

Actually I meant the mods admins and all members being rude is cowardly considering especially that's it's me against everyone. Wouldn't you think?

You are still using the word cowardly. Your explanation is not any better than your original criticism. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Advanced Member
On 10/26/2019 at 5:25 PM, 313 Seeker said:

No! One of the things I look forward to the most in the zuhur is finding these things out once and for all. Of course in the next life we will obviously also know. Another thing I look forward to is making a DNA test of the head of Hussein (عليه السلام). in the egypt mosque and the body of the one in Iraq to determine if it's the head or  not.

Salam my bad , you must know that head of Imam Hussain (عليه السلام) in Egypt is just a silver box in wall that they say it was place of his sacred head during Fatimid era that based on Fatimid propaganda stories & you even can't open grave a normal dead Muslim person which this action is a great sin and doing it needs permission at least one great Marja & if you belive in zuhur you must know that Imam Hussain (عليه السلام) & some of his companions will back in Raj'a that Imam Mahdi (aj) will verify him as Imam after him & he will bury Imam Mahdi (aj) 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Advanced Member
On 10/26/2019 at 8:38 AM, 313 Seeker said:

I would think that they are spherical heavenly bodies

They are indeed spherical & so do the Earth. 

If you try to understand the shape of Earth from scripture, you will not get to the correct conclusion. For instance, Earth is a cradle (مَهْدًا), resting place (فِرَاشاً and/or قَرَارًا) & subservient/supportive (ذَلُولًا). How do you come to the conclusion that Earth is flat? While you are viewing with your own eyes different heavenly bodies, all of them are spherical.

If we take you to Moon and allow you to view the Earth from there, you would say Earth is spherical while Moon is flat :)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Veteran Member
20 hours ago, AkhiraisReal said:

I do.

How about Islam? How about issues related to morality?

You say that it doesn't matter if someone believes in a flat Earth because it's impossible to know who is correct. But do you believe that it is impossible to know if the Qur'an is true, or that abortion is bad? Is it even possible to know that you are not living in a computer simulation?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Forum Administrators
7 hours ago, Muhammed Ali said:

How about Islam? How about issues related to morality?

You say that it doesn't matter if someone believes in a flat Earth because it's impossible to know who is correct. But do you believe that it is impossible to know if the Qur'an is true, or that abortion is bad? Is it even possible to know that you are not living in a computer simulation?

I already answered him, you don't need to worry about it. See what I said below: 

Quote

The constant existential “what ifs” and “maybe” essentially makes any conversation a non-starter. Either marked nihilism or just troll behavior at its purest.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Unregistered
7 hours ago, Muhammed Ali said:

How about Islam? How about issues related to morality?

You say that it doesn't matter if someone believes in a flat Earth because it's impossible to know who is correct. But do you believe that it is impossible to know if the Qur'an is true, or that abortion is bad? Is it even possible to know that you are not living in a computer simulation?

Can you prove someone who doesn't believe in Islam, that Islam is 100% correct? this is why it's called "believe" as in  "be live?, be alive?". What you believe will sharp your live accordingly.

2 hours ago, Reza said:

I already answered him, you don't need to worry about it. See what I said below: 

I am neither a troll or nihilist. I believe in Allah the Qur'an , the Prophets and the Imams.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Advanced Member
On 10/27/2019 at 1:31 PM, shadow_of_light said:

@313 Seeker

I am sorry if you feel offended. I think the members didnt mean to insult you but well...we should be careful while talking, lest our words should seem offensive.

As to flat earthers, as I said, I believe that the Earth is spherical, however I think that flat earthers are not stupid; they offer arguments for their beliefs. I also think that their arguments are refutable but again it doesnt mean that they are stupid.

Thank you,

You will find that every argument and counter argument have been counter-counter argued , and so on. It's like a game of ping pong that nobody has won yet. I'm waiting for the definitive proof from either side, and in the meantime I stopped playing myself, as I have other things that keep me mentally busy.

But from what I remember I think the flat Earth arguments are stronger, therefore I expect them to win, with my humble opinion. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Advanced Member
On 10/27/2019 at 1:47 PM, notme said:

@313 Seeker have you ever been to a large lake, or even an open plain? Have you ever looked out the windows while flying on an airplane? Have you ever watched a lunar eclipse? 

Yes I've seen all these and the Earth always looks flat from a plane. The argument of why there is a horizon also has been explained in countless possible ways that make the horizon not a super proof.

The eclipse story also has some counter arguments like a heavenly body that is circling thr Earth or moon (don't remember which) and makes the effect. Why not? Could be true.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Advanced Member
On 10/27/2019 at 2:40 PM, Reza said:

I’m not judging, I’m saying flat Earth views personally embarrass me, as it probably should for any sane human being. I’m entitled to that feeling. 

What accusations or threats are you talking about? The only accusations I see are coming from you, calling us bullies. You’re being overly sensitive and defensive, and trying to play the victim standing alone against a mob. But everyone can see here that you’re simply unable to respond to the slightest pushback or disagreement, and are quick to call foul. 
 

poster,840x830,f8f8f8-pad,750x1000,f8f8f

Look I wont address the negative aspect of your post this time, except one thing. You know what I think is embarrassing? Having shiachat look like a masturbation/mutah marriage/only mainstream news publishing place. Those are things that pop up every day. Also mixed with this some marriage scandal problems, and no talk about Mahdi or looking out at the news from an Islamic point of view. Where are the hadiths and Qur'an discussions of old? Now we have people giving one shallow answer to Islamic discussions and that's it! Go to the Jews and see how they are advanced in talking about family issues and making their Moshiakh come back. I suggest that you see how the Jews tolerate each others difference without making takfir and hateful comments. I've been following this atheist Jewish guy on youtube who interviews his fellow Jews on the most controversial issues .. see how they react by keeping their cool and without using hurtful language or tyrannical ways ..

Anyway, you don't speak for "everybody", as you claim to do. Allah knows the truth. You don't know what "everybody" can "see".

Anyway science is just about as real as religion. Most of it is not. That's my opinion, you can feel free to believe anything that is taught to us in mainstream anything.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Advanced Member
On 10/28/2019 at 6:06 AM, ShiaChat Mod said:

You are still using the word cowardly. Your explanation is not any better than your original criticism. 

That's your opinion

I have another definition for cowardice (that you might agree with) ..

When somebody talks in a way they never would, if they were standing in front of the person in real life. People who feel tough by talking mean online, because they are probably very weak in real life. And by weak I don't only mean physically weak, but personality weak. Family background weak, lacking real life competence and potence. That's a whole other topic called bullyology.

Strong people are nice, sensitive, gentle, kind. Why? Because they can :) 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Veteran Member
13 hours ago, AkhiraisReal said:

Can you prove someone who doesn't believe in Islam, that Islam is 100% correct? this is why it's called "believe" as in  "be live?, be alive?". What you believe will sharp your live accordingly.

Do you believe that the rejectors of Islam will go to hell? 

You didn't answer the other questions. 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Unregistered
10 hours ago, Muhammed Ali said:

Do you believe that the rejectors of Islam will go to hell? 

You didn't answer the other questions. 

 

I didn't understand those questions very well. If you could rephrase it please.

Q: If rejectors of Islam will go to hell?

A: I don't know, only Allah knows that. We have many verses about disbelieving people in Qur'an, but can we take those verses literally?. So only Allah knows what will happen to the rejectors of Islam.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Advanced Member
10 hours ago, Muhammed Ali said:

Do you believe that the rejectors of Islam will go to hell? 

You didn't answer the other questions. 

Yes of course they will go to hell. God does not fail in his promise. And He promised in the Qur'an that hell will be filled with the disbelievers among mankind and jinn. 

9 hours ago, AkhiraisReal said:

I don't know, only Allah knows that. We have many verses about disbelieving people in Qur'an, but can we take those verses literally?. So only Allah knows what will happen to the rejectors of Islam.

By that logic, a person can deny prophethood of Muhammad (sawa), can deny prayer, fasting etc. They could even deny the existence of Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) if clear verses in the Qur'an are not taken literally. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Unregistered
6 hours ago, Kaya said:

Yes of course they will go to hell. God does not fail in his promise. And He promised in the Qur'an that hell will be filled with the disbelievers among mankind and jinn. 

By that logic, a person can deny prophethood of Muhammad (sawa), can deny prayer, fasting etc. They could even deny the existence of Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) if clear verses in the Qur'an are not taken literally. 

But what does rejectors of Islam mean brother?

is it people who have received the message but still deny it? how well did they receive the message of Islam and from who? What about people that live in outcast areas or in amazons who never heard of modern civilization or know anything about the bible, torah or Qur'an.

So in the end, it's Allah that only knows who goes where.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Veteran Member
9 hours ago, AkhiraisReal said:

I didn't understand those questions very well. If you could rephrase it please.

What is hard to understand about his one: Is it even possible to know that you are not living in a computer simulation?

Rephrase: Person 1 believes that we live in a virtual reality world created by other creatures (e.g. aliens or more advanced humans). They believe that everything around us is a computer program. Person 2 believes that the world we see is real and not a computer program.

Is it possible to work out if person 1 or person 2 is right?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Veteran Member
2 hours ago, Muhammed Ali said:

Is it even possible to know that you are not living in a computer simulation?

Here are two ways: the existence of Entropy, and nuclear physics which with mass changes cannot exist in an electronic phase.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Unregistered
5 hours ago, Muhammed Ali said:

What is hard to understand about his one: Is it even possible to know that you are not living in a computer simulation?

Rephrase: Person 1 believes that we live in a virtual reality world created by other creatures (e.g. aliens or more advanced humans). They believe that everything around us is a computer program. Person 2 believes that the world we see is real and not a computer program.

Is it possible to work out if person 1 or person 2 is right?

We could very well be living in some kind of "computer simulation". Or is that impossible?

There is lot of things that we don't understand and in fact will never understand.

Edited by AkhiraisReal
Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Advanced Member
7 hours ago, AkhiraisReal said:

But what does rejectors of Islam mean brother?

is it people who have received the message but still deny it? how well did they receive the message of Islam and from who? What about people that live in outcast areas or in amazons who never heard of modern civilization or know anything about the bible, torah or Qur'an.

So in the end, it's Allah that only knows who goes where.

Oh... I understand better what you meant now. 

Yes only Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) knows about them

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Advanced Member
23 hours ago, 313 Seeker said:

Look I wont address the negative aspect of your post this time, except one thing. You know what I think is embarrassing? Having shiachat look like a masturbation/mutah marriage/only mainstream news publishing place.

Salam these matters are better than your false idea about making alliance with zionist Israel to make third temple for them for coming of their false messiah that forces Imam Mahdi (aj) reappearance for killing him.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Veteran Member
13 hours ago, Muhammed Ali said:

What is hard to understand about his one: Is it even possible to know that you are not living in a computer simulation?

Rephrase: Person 1 believes that we live in a virtual reality world created by other creatures (e.g. aliens or more advanced humans). They believe that everything around us is a computer program. Person 2 believes that the world we see is real and not a computer program.

Is it possible to work out if person 1 or person 2 is right?

Well...we are real because, for example, we feel pain or we can think.

But it is possible that the whole universe is surrounded by a far greater universe...maybe our universe is just an atom in another universe.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Advanced Member
On 10/30/2019 at 11:35 AM, Ashvazdanghe said:

Salam these matters are better than your false idea about making alliance with zionist Israel to make third temple for them for coming of their false messiah that forces Imam Mahdi (aj) reappearance for killing him.

What?!??! I think you misread. I never said anything about alliance with so-called "zionists". Read that thread again.

But yeah, what's wrong with building a house of God in honor of Prophet Suleiman?

I also never said anything about false messiahs or forcing Mahdi or any of that. Are you confusing me with someone else?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Advanced Member
On 10/30/2019 at 12:16 PM, shadow_of_light said:

@313 Seeker

Do you believe in gravity?

Well what people call gravity is an undeniable force. There definitely is something pulling us into direction Earth. But I'm open to hear all kinds of theories about what it is and how it works, even if it contradicts the current notions of all objects attracting each other based on their mass. The more mass, the more the attraction. I haven't given it much thought, but does that play a role in proving the shape of our Earth?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Moderators
1 hour ago, 313 Seeker said:

does that play a role in proving the shape of our Earth?

Yes it does, actually. To a blind person or one who lives in an enclosed environment, gravity might be the only personally verifiable proof of the shape of the Earth that doesn't require travel. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Advanced Member
2 minutes ago, notme said:

Yes it does, actually. To a blind person or one who lives in an enclosed environment, gravity might be the only personally verifiable proof of the shape of the Earth that doesn't require travel. 

Ok, now you got me curious. I don't remember this argument. How can gravity prove Earth is a ball?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Moderators
2 minutes ago, 313 Seeker said:

Ok, now you got me curious. I don't remember this argument. How can gravity prove Earth is a ball?

The pull of gravity is always toward the center of mass. 

We've had this discussion before. Look at your old posts, perhaps under your previous account. 

Edited by notme
Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Veteran Member
29 minutes ago, notme said:

The pull of gravity is always toward the center of mass. 

:dwarf:"Aahhhhhh . . . got you!"

This is only 'true' for large, generally uniform masses. OTHERWISE, if it is smaller and not spherically shape, the attration is to the center of gravity . Think of an egg, peanut, cashew or other frequently encountered shapes.

Challenge: find the center of gravity for a pod of green peas.  :grin:

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Advanced Member
41 minutes ago, notme said:

The pull of gravity is always toward the center of mass. 

We've had this discussion before. Look at your old posts, perhaps under your previous account. 

Ah ok then I must've not gotten convinced. If we have a pancake for instance, it also has gravity pulling to the centre according to you. But still the pancake remains flat. Or was it a different argument, sorry I can’t remember which and page it was on, as they are so many, over the past year or two.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Advanced Member
10 minutes ago, hasanhh said:

:dwarf:"Aahhhhhh . . . got you!"

This is only 'true' for large, generally uniform masses. OTHERWISE, if it is smaller and not spherically shape, the attration is to the center of gravity . Think of an egg, peanut, cashew or other frequently encountered shapes.

Challenge: find the center of gravity for a pod of green peas.  :grin:

notme you got :grin:

If the gravity pulls to the center - let's say that is a fact - then how do we know that the mass of Earth is enough to make it implode to a big Earth ball, and not into a black hole? 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Moderators
15 minutes ago, hasanhh said:

:dwarf:"Aahhhhhh . . . got you!"

This is only 'true' for large, generally uniform masses. OTHERWISE, if it is smaller and not spherically shape, the attration is to the center of gravity . Think of an egg, peanut, cashew or other frequently encountered shapes.

Challenge: find the center of gravity for a pod of green peas.  :grin:

It's been more than twenty years since I studied mechanics. I actually don't remember the difference between center of mass and center of gravity. Can you briefly summarize, or do I need to go find an old textbook? 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You are posting as a guest. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

×
×
  • Create New...