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In the Name of God بسم الله

What do you think of flat earthers?


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5 hours ago, Allah Seeker said:

Anyway, so back to the stars. What were we saying? Ah , Sirius! So this tribe in the Amazon or something, worship this star, and they knew that it is a twin star and they celebrate each orbit cycle.

The Dogon peoples live in Mali and Burkina Faso, not the Amazon. Yes, I agree, it is fascinating but I don't see how the worship of Sirius A and Sirius B prove your theory of Flat Earth. They aren't ruling or oppressing the world by any stretch of the imagination. 

39 minutes ago, Allah Seeker said:

This is too many points. If you want to discuss Islam as a Shia of the current Imam in context to this story, I'm all ears. Until then, wishing you all the best. Thanks!

Why are you unwilling to answer my questions? Are you afraid that I might be right? If that's the case, so much for calling me arrogant two years ago. I was interested in seeing how Imam Mahdi (afts) fits in this theory but it seems like a waste of time and I am loath to stroke your ego any further. 

Edited by Gaius I. Caesar
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13 minutes ago, Gaius I. Caesar said:

The Dogon peoples live in Mali and Burkina Faso, not the Amazon. Yes, I agree, it is fascinating but I don't see how the worship of Sirius A and Sirius B prove your theory of Flat Earth. They aren't ruling or oppressing the world by any stretch of the imagination. 

Why are you unwilling to answer my questions? Are you afraid that I might be right? If that's the case, so much for calling me arrogant two years ago. I was interested in seeing how Imam Mahdi (afts) fits in this theory but it seems like a waste of time and I am loath to stroke your ego any further. 

Brother,

Ladies and gentlemen,

I have nothing but love for all you here. 

Sorry that my opinions offended you, and hope you overcome the trauma of what I said. My intentions here are to seek peace in a forum that I still consider the best Islamic forum online. Not sure if I'm right. Anybody got an alternative?

So please forgive me if my communication skills make it sound like I'm disrespecting you sometimes. It is not my intention. This is a good time to discuss this in this controversial topic thread. 

I attack ideologies and beliefs, but your are all my brothers in God and we are brothers and sisters in the only opinion that matters. There is a good. So let us be at peace, and for the points that I ignore, I usually say that I can't read all this. Let's discuss point for point Islamic if you want. I just want peace. And hope our opinions clash in a peaceful easy, if that makes sense. These are minor issues compared to other pillars of faith. Good luck! Maa salaama

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1 hour ago, Allah Seeker said:

hope you overcome the trauma of what I said.

Alhamdulillah, thankfully I did as I realized dwelling on anything you say about me is a waste of my time and energy because you know nothing about me.  

1 hour ago, Allah Seeker said:

Brother,

Ladies and gentlemen,

I have nothing but love for all you here. 

Sorry that my opinions offended you, and hope you overcome the trauma of what I said. My intentions here are to seek peace in a forum that I still consider the best Islamic forum online. Not sure if I'm right. Anybody got an alternative?

So please forgive me if my communication skills make it sound like I'm disrespecting you sometimes. It is not my intention. This is a good time to discuss this in this controversial topic thread. 

I attack ideologies and beliefs, but your are all my brothers in God and we are brothers and sisters in the only opinion that matters. There is a good. So let us be at peace, and for the points that I ignore, I usually say that I can't read all this. Let's discuss point for point Islamic if you want. I just want peace. And hope our opinions clash in a peaceful easy, if that makes sense. These are minor issues compared to other pillars of faith. Good luck! Maa salaama

If you had enough time to write this, then you had enough time to address my questions. Clearly, you are unwilling to do so, therefore I am not interested in continuing to discuss this dead-end of a conversation. It was a waste of my time three years ago and it is still a waste of my time. The only thing we agree on is that some people have trouble with reality, especially with accepting it. Hence people turn to and believe in conspiracy theories to feel self-important and "special". Have a nice life, wasalam alaikum.

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6 hours ago, Allah Seeker said:

Are you guys annoyed that there is a flat earther on this thread representing those school of thought?

Honestly,  it makes us look bad. At least you acknowledge that this isn't a belief of the Shia school of thought.  As far as I know,  Flat Eartherism is not professed by any Muslim school of thought but I'm not aware of all the little sects. 

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On 12/21/2022 at 12:13 PM, Allah Seeker said:

can shake my body by moving

Yes, everything could be shaken by moving. I am talking about not without moving. 

On 12/21/2022 at 12:13 PM, Allah Seeker said:

while my feet remain firmly planted. 

Do we have any idea that the feet of the earth are firmly planted somewhere? Or it is planted on horns of a bull? 

On 12/21/2022 at 12:13 PM, Allah Seeker said:

Just like a tree can be shook, the mountains can shake like our skeleton, muscles, etc.

Ok, so lets get back to the verse of Sura e  Mulk and try to understand what is meant by تمور. 

أَأَمِنْتُمْ مَنْ فِي السَّمَاءِ أَنْ يَخْسِفَ بِكُمُ الْأَرْضَ فَإِذَا هِيَ تَمُورُ

This word (تمور) has tri-literal root م و ر، and it is used in other verses as well, for instance in chapter 52:

يَوْمَ تَمُورُ السَّمَاءُ مَوْرًا

52:9) Sahih International: On the Day the heaven will sway with circular motion. 

Shakir: On the day when the heaven shall move from side to side

The word مور is used to mention the movement of dust raised by winds. Have you seen whirl-wind? It produces circular motion, rotating the dust particles. 

So فَإِذَا هِيَ تَمُورُ would mean "she (i.e., Earth) kept giving you a whirl" which obviously pointing towards Earth's motion i.e., its rotation or spin on its axis. 

The verb تمور is an imperfect singular verb and the imperfect tense in Arabic denotes both present and future tense in which an action is unfinished. 

This is my little effort to understand the word تمور، I hope you would enjoy reading it even if you are not agreed with the conclusion. 

Anyway, for Earth's rotation, you can do the experiment by your self. I am sure that it is not possible for you to fire a shell/rocket, so what you can do easily is what was done by a scientist back in 1851. Try Foucault pendulum, it is the easiest way to observe the motion of Earth.

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On 12/22/2022 at 6:57 PM, Allah Seeker said:

A magnet spinning in a vacuum they taught me in University physics class. That's how you neutralize gravity. And if you Google "sounds levitating", you'll see how people use sounds to lift and manipulate the "physical" world. So that's how they built temples and pyramids and stuff, in my opinion. Allahu Aalam

Salam it's not breaking any rule of gravity & moving of earth which it's about using gravity for  adjustig it & moving object which in some conditions by putting a magnet in another magnetic field you can hold smaller magnet on sky between greater magnetc field also in similar fashion using sound or other energies likewise electricity can work same as leviating smaller magnet by creating opposite poles and changing it constantly. anyway for applying a large scale for leviating a human it needs too much amount of energy & aterial which is still out of our reach.

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On 12/23/2022 at 5:01 AM, notme said:

Honestly,  it makes us look bad. At least you acknowledge that this isn't a belief of the Shia school of thought.  As far as I know,  Flat Eartherism is not professed by any Muslim school of thought but I'm not aware of all the little sects. 

I acknowledge that it is not a core belief in being a Shia. Or are you saying otherwise, as you said already in the second post on here?

To me the Islamic hadiths are clear on the issue, and I respect your views. You can see it in any way you want to, and I won't don't takfeer against you for that. Thank you

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Salam,

Would like to repeat:

Please let us not get personal here, and not cross the border of talking about ideas and linking it to religion, unless there are known legit texts to prove it.

If I offend you, please tell me publicly, or tell each other as a PM, and tell each other that you feel personally offended.

To speak on behalf of a community, such as the diverse community of Muslims, is very dangerous. Let us respect each other brothers and sisters filLah

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2 hours ago, Ashvazdanghe said:

Salam it's not breaking any rule of gravity & moving of earth which it's about using gravity for  adjustig it & moving object which in some conditions by putting a magnet in another magnetic field you can hold smaller magnet on sky between greater magnetc field also in similar fashion using sound or other energies likewise electricity can work same as leviating smaller magnet by creating opposite poles and changing it constantly. anyway for applying a large scale for leviating a human it needs too much amount of energy & aterial which is still out of our reach.

Thanks for sharing your view. You basically think it's possible, but only for objects of a certain weight? After that the universal rule doesn't apply, for instance with bigger or stronger magnets?

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On 12/23/2022 at 9:33 AM, Cool said:

Yes, everything could be shaken by moving. I am talking about not without moving. 

Do we have any idea that the feet of the earth are firmly planted somewhere? Or it is planted on horns of a bull? 

Ok, so lets get back to the verse of Sura e  Mulk and try to understand what is meant by تمور. 

أَأَمِنْتُمْ مَنْ فِي السَّمَاءِ أَنْ يَخْسِفَ بِكُمُ الْأَرْضَ فَإِذَا هِيَ تَمُورُ

This word (تمور) has tri-literal root م و ر، and it is used in other verses as well, for instance in chapter 52:

يَوْمَ تَمُورُ السَّمَاءُ مَوْرًا

52:9) Sahih International: On the Day the heaven will sway with circular motion. 

Shakir: On the day when the heaven shall move from side to side

The word مور is used to mention the movement of dust raised by winds. Have you seen whirl-wind? It produces circular motion, rotating the dust particles. 

So فَإِذَا هِيَ تَمُورُ would mean "she (i.e., Earth) kept giving you a whirl" which obviously pointing towards Earth's motion i.e., its rotation or spin on its axis. 

The verb تمور is an imperfect singular verb and the imperfect tense in Arabic denotes both present and future tense in which an action is unfinished. 

This is my little effort to understand the word تمور، I hope you would enjoy reading it even if you are not agreed with the conclusion. 

Anyway, for Earth's rotation, you can do the experiment by your self. I am sure that it is not possible for you to fire a shell/rocket, so what you can do easily is what was done by a scientist back in 1851. Try Foucault pendulum, it is the easiest way to observe the motion of Earth.

There are at least one or two arguments by the ball earth theorists that I can not explain. It makes me feel humble that I could still be wrong in my head. However in the balance of things it's a closed deal for me. To me the earth came first, and then the sun. The sun is great, and a picture (surah) we are to ponder on and love and connect to again and again inshallah. However it is tiny compared to the heavens and earth. The heavenly bodies we see are in the nearest adna heaven. 

Your Quranic word analysis is spot-on mashaallah.

In my opinion anyway,

However, this motion can be applied to any object. In the case of a ring it is a beautiful sight when rotating it in a 3D fashion. Like, with a wobble in a wooden table for instance. 

It's an interesting topic in the Quran, and an endless one. There is a topic I started in this forum called cosmology in Quran. Most of the time when I discovery new things in the Quran I don't share it, because either people don't interact, or they try to prove me wrong. And I can count on my hand the amount of times I've seen people in this forum changing their minds about anything, followed by an apology and thanking those who convinced them. 

Keep em coming. The Quran analysis word for word. This is the hujah or proof that Allah had for the superiority and khilafa of our dear grandfather Adam (عليه السلام). Being aware of the meaning of words from the roots to its stems is lots of fun. 

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Hey, I'm not suggesting the earth is flat or round.
Although I don't know for sure, I would lean toward the idea that the world is somewhat round.
In any case, even though I'm not up to date on NASA, I wouldn't criticise other people for holding different beliefs because NASA has long posted numerous fake images and films that were created using digital technology.

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5 hours ago, notme said:

Back in the 90s I met this dude who religiously believed that the moon landings were faked.  That was wild.  

I know some astronauts who disagree,  but whatever.  

Salaam...watch this video and give me feedback...'NASA ADMITS: WE NEVER WENT TO THE MOON' (9 min)

 

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@notme, Also, this one...'I Don't Believe The Moon Landing Happened' (6 min)...1969: NASA claims people will be able to vacation on the moon in 50 years...2018: Mustache Dude :worried:...NASA: "We lost all the data." (Aisha's goat ate it!)  :grin:

 

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Eratosthenes of Cyrene (/ɛrəˈtɒsθəniːz/; Greek: Ἐρατοσθένης [eratostʰénɛːs]; c. 276 BC – c. 195/194 BC) was a Greek polymath: a mathematician, geographer, poet, astronomer, and music theorist. He was a man of learning, becoming the chief librarian at the Library of Alexandria. His work is comparable to what is now known as the study of geography, and he introduced some of the terminology still used today.

He is best known for being the first person known to calculate the circumference of the Earth, which he did by using the extensive survey results he could access in his role at the Library; his calculation was remarkably accurate. He was also the first to calculate Earth's axial tilt, which has also proved to have remarkable accuracy. He created the first global projection of the world, incorporating parallels and meridians based on the available geographic knowledge of his era.

 

404746520_4383986301825766_1674520663388342153_n.jpg

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Salaam, I will reserve what I really think of flat Earth because I will probably be in trouble on this site for saying it.

Flat Earth is an idiotic, moronic non-issue that was created with the intention of diverting people's attention from what's really important in this world which is who rules the world, controls things and what their true intentions are.

Keeping the masses occupied by such moronic things as flat earth, Freemasons and things like that, keeps the real culprits from being found out cuz people are too busy diving down the rabbit hole investigating these stupid ideas instead of focusing on what's important. And the whole while, they're thinking they found the truth! Lol..

 

That's all I'm going to say.

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9 hours ago, PureExistence1 said:

I will reserve what I really think of flat Earth because I will probably be in trouble on this site for saying it.

Salaam...I believe in questioning everything and I encourage other people to question everything...and by "everything" I really do mean EVERYTHING...question your elementary school teachers...question your university professors...question your religion...question the mainstream political narrative...question the white man's official version of American history...question the pope...question authority figures and the ayatollahs...question what you were taught by your parents...give them all migraine headaches...most importantly...question your own questioning...healthy skepticism is good...fanatical cynicism is bad...if something doesn't 'sound' 'natural' and 'normal' or 'good' and 'right' then questioning is required until one is completely and entirely satisfied...the questioning should or must be absolutely relentless until one's own mind is totally content, happy, reassured etc....additionally, I believe doubting is healthy...the doubting and questioning must be coupled with a mind that is open and neutral and objective and not socially pressured into compliance and conformity...most of our modern-day beliefs (whether we realize it or not) are conditioned by the greater society...flat earth is the default state of man really...when Adam awoke after the breath of life was blown into him (after initial creation) and he glanced around, he would have assumed a flat earth...if Allah didn't instill that type of foreknowledge into Adam's reasoning faculty, he (Adam) would have assumed a flat earth...many cultures and civilizations believed the earth was flat...for example, in early Ancient Egyptian and Mesopotamian thought, the world was portrayed as a disk floating in the ocean...in Greece, there were many pre-Socratic philosophers who believed that the world was flat...we shouldn't browbeat inquiring minds into submission by socially stigmatizing them and name-calling them...this is the way of the Wahhabism and Salafism...a round world cosmology might not gel well with certain people...especially upon initial investigation...we encourage inexperienced people to engage with the scientific community and continue to give them ulcers and migraines...probe and poke the so-called "astute"

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11 hours ago, PureExistence1 said:

I will reserve what I really think of flat Earth because I will probably be in trouble on this site for saying it.

Salaam...I believe in questioning everything and I encourage other people to question everything...and by "everything" I really do mean EVERYTHING...question your elementary school teachers...question your university professors...question your religion...question the mainstream political narrative...question the white man's official version of American history...question the pope...question authority figures and the ayatollahs...question what you were taught by your parents...give them all migraine headaches...most importantly...question your own questioning...healthy skepticism is good...fanatical cynicism is bad...if something doesn't 'sound' 'natural' and 'normal' or 'good' and 'right' then questioning is required until one is completely and entirely satisfied...the questioning should or must be absolutely relentless until one's own mind is totally content, happy, reassured etc....additionally, I believe doubting is healthy...the doubting and questioning must be coupled with a mind that is open and neutral and objective and not socially pressured into compliance and conformity...most of our modern-day beliefs (whether we realize it or not) are conditioned by the greater society...flat earth is the default state of man really...when Adam awoke after the breath of life was blown into him (after initial creation) and he glanced around, he would have assumed a flat earth...if Allah didn't instill that type of foreknowledge into Adam's reasoning faculty, he (Adam) would have assumed a flat earth...many cultures and civilizations believed the earth was flat...for example, in early Ancient Egyptian and Mesopotamian thought, the world was portrayed as a disk floating in the ocean...in Greece, there were many pre-Socratic philosophers who believed that the world was flat...we shouldn't browbeat inquiring minds into submission by socially stigmatizing them and name-calling them...that is the minhaj of Wahhabism and Salafism...a round world cosmology might not gel well with certain people...especially upon initial investigation...we should encourage inexperienced people to engage with the scientific community and continue to give them ulcers and migraines...probe and poke the so-called "astute"

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12 minutes ago, Eddie Mecca said:

Salaam...I believe in questioning everything and I encourage other people to question everything...and by "everything" I really do mean EVERYTHING...question your elementary school teachers...question your university professors...question your religion...question the mainstream political narrative...question the white man's official version of American history...question the pope...question authority figures and the ayatollahs...question what you were taught by your parents...give them all migraine headaches...most importantly...question your own questioning...healthy skepticism is good...fanatical cynicism is bad...if something doesn't 'sound' 'natural' and 'normal' or 'good' and 'right' then questioning is required until one is completely and entirely satisfied...the questioning should or must be absolutely relentless until one's own mind is totally content, happy, reassured etc....additionally, I believe doubting is healthy...the doubting and questioning must be coupled with a mind that is open and neutral and objective and not socially pressured into compliance and conformity...most of our modern-day beliefs (whether we realize it or not) are conditioned by the greater society...flat earth is the default state of man really...when Adam awoke after the breath of life was blown into him (after initial creation) and he glanced around, he would have assumed a flat earth...if Allah didn't instill that type of foreknowledge into Adam's reasoning faculty, he (Adam) would have assumed a flat earth...many cultures and civilizations believed the earth was flat...for example, in early Ancient Egyptian and Mesopotamian thought, the world was portrayed as a disk floating in the ocean...in Greece, there were many pre-Socratic philosophers who believed that the world was flat...we shouldn't browbeat inquiring minds into submission by socially stigmatizing them and name-calling them...this is the way of Wahhabism and Salafism...a round world cosmology might not gel well with certain people...especially upon initial investigation...we should encourage inexperienced people to engage with the scientific community and continue to give them ulcers and migraines...probe and poke the so-called "astute"

I agree with everything you said...and i do question everything. Thats how i arrived at my conclusion. It just doesnt make sense that literally everything else in the universe is round, but earth isnt? I just cant get behind that.

Im content with the amount of questioning and doubting ive done on the subject. I think if it was that important, Allah(سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) wouldve made it MORE clear to us either way. 

I just think there are more important subjects for me personally to spend my time on. But thats just me. We only have so much time on this earth, and sooo many responsibilities. Im ill and have old sick parents and trying to hold my marriage together while living with multiple autoimmune diseases thanks to covid, which, by the way, i believe was intentional and produced by gain of function with many ulterior motives..thats all i have the life force to deal with anymore. I already made my peace with flat earth ideas years ago.

May Allah(سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) guide us to what is best, in sha Allah, and heal all us suffering from the oppression of "them' who shall not be named.

Edited by PureExistence1
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16 minutes ago, Eddie Mecca said:

we should encourage inexperienced people to engage with the scientific community and continue to give them ulcers and migraines...probe and poke the so-called "astute

^^^This is a great approach because it engages everyone (i.e. laypeople) into scientific pursuit instead of a hierarchy of stuffy know-it-alls...everyone participating...I love when I see hobbyists and amateur cosmologists peering into telescopes and even hearing about "homemade astronauts"...I don't like NASA or SpaceX or Starlink or Blue Origin Enterprises because they're exclusively controlled by billionaire elites and not the common masses...they're attempting to create a monopoly of space exploration for capitalistic endeavors 

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On 12/6/2023 at 1:17 PM, PureExistence1 said:

Flat Earth is an idiotic, moronic non-issue that was created with the intention of diverting people's attention from what's really important in this world

1.) I agree that the Flat Earther position is being used by those in power to divert attention away from legitimate concerns (e.g. Palestine)…2.) Most of the things we think we know are based on social engineering and social pressure...it's hard for laypeople to truly know most things science-related unless they really put forth an concerted effort...does the Earth revolve around the Sun? Yeah, I suppose so...does the Earth spin on its axis at 1,000 m.p.h.? Yeah, I guess so...Is the Sun, Earth and entire solar system in motion and orbiting the center of the Milky Way at 140 miles per second?...Yeah, that's what we're told...but how sincerely do we actually believe in these things? What level of confidence in these findings do we actually have? I'm totally in favor of laypeople questioning or even challenging commonly accepted scientific (or political or historic) fact or facts

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1 hour ago, Eddie Mecca said:

I'm totally in favor of laypeople questioning or even challenging commonly accepted scientific (or political or historic) fact or facts

Salaam, yes i agree with you.

I guess for me, the pendulum effect that shows the movement of the earth helped alot, at least as far as flat earth goes.

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@Haji 2003 @PureExistence1 @Eddie Mecca

^ Up until now I had been leaning toward the spherical Earth (SE), but the evidence presented here seems incontrovertible, pending constructive critique. Most notably the pro-SE side has been reluctant to respond to this, hence the disabling of comments. If the evidence presented in this video is valid—and there seems little reason to suspect otherwise—then the SE model has some serious problems. Of course an objection to this might be the constant size of the Sun, but then there is the following explanation:

^ If the evidence from the Rampion Wind Farm is valid, then maybe the “atmospheric lens” applies to the Sun.

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