Jump to content
Guests can now reply in ALL forum topics (No registration required!) ×
Guests can now reply in ALL forum topics (No registration required!)
In the Name of God بسم الله

Rate this topic

Recommended Posts

Salam,

A while back, I was in H&M and saw a 'top' (literally) that really ticked me off on so many levels. I have never purchased anything from them since. 

I would like your thoughts on this and perhaps I'm keen to hear what the females have to say as the clothing and message is for women.

How do you feel about the fallacy of empowering women through moral regression?

How can one counter it? Especially when it's directed at the younger generations.

IMG_7375.PNG

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest Monad

do the opposite. Make a shirt that states "empowering men" - "empowering the human being", list can do on. see the reactions, but none of the reactions can go against it, when you have a defense as above.

Fashion labels do not care for genders , what they care for how can they maximise profit from the general public. This works by using whatever new gimic is in market.

economics does not care about empowering, what it cares about is profit and control. The more women work, the more they purchase. But how can you have jobs for eveyone?.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

@Moalfas Thanks for the info, I probably won't buy from them anymore as well, since they want to make their products so ideologically motivated.

It is sad that some people think the only way to empower women is to accentuate their sexual appearance more. Their base assumption seems to be that "There is nothing of value in a woman except her sexual use".

So sad. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
21 minutes ago, Moalfas said:

a 'top' (literally)

Empowering women by making them wearing crop tops? :hahaha::hahaha:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

@starlight you can tell how well versed I am in women's clothing lol

 

@2Timeless there's no doubt that H&M are jumping on the bandwagon of 'empowering women'. However, they have a social responsibility which consumers should hold them accountable to. I'm approaching this issue on the basis of It's effects on the younger girls. If you had teenage girls exposed to this, you yourself would be 'so extra', Don't you think? 

 

@GuestMonad &

@3wliya_maryam this has nothing to do with men vs women or being offended over 'empowerment'. I was interested in your views on turning empowerment into a tool for spreading corruption and Fasad. And how you would counter it to protect your own younger ones? 

 

 

Edited by Moalfas

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Kaya said:

@Moalfas

It is sad that some people think the only way to empower women is to accentuate their sexual appearance more. Their base assumption seems to be that "There is nothing of value in a woman except her sexual use".

So sad. 

Thank you. This is precisely what I'm trying to get to. Empowering women by further objectifying them? 

How do you reckon we can safeguard our younger ones in this losing battle? 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Guest Monad said:

Fashion labels do not care for genders , what they care for how can they maximise profit from the general public. This works by using whatever new gimic is in market.

economics does not care about empowering, what it cares about is profit and control

totally agree nobody cares about empowering women ,women rights men rights human rights whatever rights ,its all about money money and money to these companies .

I bet they have factories in some third world country where they have women working like slaves for them to make these clothes and getting paid close to nothing..this is all nonsense 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 minutes ago, starlight said:

images?q=tbn:ANd9GcTeLNR2ZK-Ld9j6rUdY7U6

H&M Hijabi model 

They're targeting a valuable market obviously.

Which means more power to the Muslims!

Should we ignore the crop top issue or perhaps we can collectively hold them to account? 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
6 hours ago, Moalfas said:

Should we ignore the crop top issue or perhaps we can collectively hold them to account? 

I say we let it go this time:coffee:

Clothing companies are doing ridiculous things these days. If it's makes you feel any better they are selling 'literally tops' :p to men(Can they be called men?) too. No empowering slogans though. 

D7cGc7HX4AAES3I?format=jpg&name=large

Regardless of our gender it's eventually upto us if we allow ourselves to be objectified or not.

Edited by starlight
'It' not 'them'

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
56 minutes ago, Moalfas said:

If you had teenage girls exposed to this, you yourself would be 'so extra', Don't you think? 

No, because I'd have had more than a decade to teach my teenage girls how to empower themselves without becoming the object of the male gaze and submitting to western and male ideals. 

46 minutes ago, Moalfas said:

Should we ignore the crop top issue or perhaps we can collectively hold them to account? 

How exactly will you hold them to account? Boycott them? There are many stores whove done way worse things than having a crop top with a trendy slogan on it, and no one cares. Take Starbucks and McDonald's for an example. They both support Isreal (which is killing thousands of innocent Palestinians) does anyone care enough to boycott them? No. Is the solution to boycott them in the first place? No. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I think the power they are talking about is the power that style of clothing has on men. But when you think of it, isn't advertising sexual favors to make men take down the garbage or fix your bike a kind of prostitution? And also how long does that power last? Once they have released their desire you can't make them do anything all of a sudden.
The narrative that goes into that kind of garment is really the same that is claiming that the hijab is oppressive. The idea that a woman can only be free if she objectify herself for men. I don't know if boycotting H&M will help, but I think that narrative need to be opposed. That could be difficult because there is a lot of money in it.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, starlight said:

I say we let them go this time:coffee:

If it's makes you feel any better they are selling 'literally tops' :p

LOL haha that was good 

 

and yes ma'am well let them off this time  haha

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 hours ago, 2Timeless said:

No, because I'd have had more than a decade to teach my teenage girls how to empower themselves without becoming the object of the male gaze and submitting to western and male ideals. 

 

It's easier said than done but I do hope inshallah you will be able to. We never know how bad things can be in a decade's time. But I assure you it's difficult as it is now, let alone in a decade.

 

Quote

How exactly will you hold them to account? Boycott them? There are many stores whove done way worse things than having a crop top with a trendy slogan on it, and no one cares. Take Starbucks and McDonald's for an example. They both support Isreal (which is killing thousands of innocent Palestinians) does anyone care enough to boycott them? No. Is the solution to boycott them in the first place? No. 

The 'no one cares' mentality is not the menatality of someone who wants to live in a world of justice, without the objectification of women and girls.

And there's many other ways to deal with it other than straight out boycotting. The first would be to identify the problem. Perhaps instead of 'no one cares' and it's all the 'man's gaze', we can work on breaking the cycle that leads to males staring?

Edited by Moalfas

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest Pschological Warfare
Quote

it's all the 'man's gaze', we can work on breaking the cycle that leads to males staring?

Both look at each other, not sure why we have bought into this propaganda that it is only Man. If something is repeated many times or the media markets it, and people buy into it , does not mean its true.

--------------

وَقُلْ لِلْمُؤْمِنَاتِ يَغْضُضْنَ مِنْ أَبْصَارِهِنَّ وَيَحْفَظْنَ فُرُوجَهُنَّ وَلَا يُبْدِينَ زِينَتَهُنَّ إِلَّا مَا ظَهَرَ مِنْهَا ۖ وَلْيَضْرِبْنَ بِخُمُرِهِنَّ عَلَىٰ جُيُوبِهِنَّ ۖ وَلَا يُبْدِينَ زِينَتَهُنَّ إِلَّا لِبُعُولَتِهِنَّ أَوْ آبَائِهِنَّ أَوْ آبَاءِ بُعُولَتِهِنَّ أَوْ أَبْنَائِهِنَّ أَوْ أَبْنَاءِ بُعُولَتِهِنَّ أَوْ إِخْوَانِهِنَّ أَوْ بَنِي إِخْوَانِهِنَّ أَوْ بَنِي أَخَوَاتِهِنَّ أَوْ نِسَائِهِنَّ أَوْ مَا مَلَكَتْ أَيْمَانُهُنَّ أَوِ التَّابِعِينَ غَيْرِ أُولِي الْإِرْبَةِ مِنَ الرِّجَالِ أَوِ الطِّفْلِ الَّذِينَ لَمْ يَظْهَرُوا عَلَىٰ عَوْرَاتِ النِّسَاءِ ۖ وَلَا يَضْرِبْنَ بِأَرْجُلِهِنَّ لِيُعْلَمَ مَا يُخْفِينَ مِنْ زِينَتِهِنَّ ۚ وَتُوبُوا إِلَى اللَّهِ جَمِيعًا أَيُّهَ الْمُؤْمِنُونَ لَعَلَّكُمْ تُفْلِحُونَ {31}

[Shakir 24:31] And say to the believing women that they cast down their looks and guard their private parts and do not display their ornaments except what appears thereof, and let them wear their head-coverings over their bosoms, and not display their ornaments except to their husbands or their fathers, or the fathers of their husbands, or their sons, or the sons of their husbands, or their brothers, or their brothers' sons, or their sisters' sons, or their women, or those whom their right hands possess, or the male servants not having need (of women), or the children who have not attained knowledge of what is hidden of women; and let them not strike their feet so that what they hide of their ornaments may be known; and turn to Allah all of you, O believers! so that you may be successful.
[Pickthal 24:31] And tell the believing women to lower their gaze and be modest, and to display of their adornment only that which is apparent, and to draw their veils over their bosoms, and not to reveal their adornment save to their own husbands or fathers or husbands' fathers, or their sons or their husbands' sons, or their brothers or their brothers' sons or sisters' sons, or their women, or their slaves, or male attendants who lack vigour, or children who know naught of women's nakedness. And let them not stamp their feet so as to reveal what they hide of their adornment. And turn unto Allah together, O believers, in order that ye may succeed.
[Yusufali 24:31] And say to the believing women that they should lower their gaze and guard their modesty; that they should not display their beauty and ornaments except what (must ordinarily) appear thereof; that they should draw their veils over their bosoms and not display their beauty except to their husbands, their fathers, their husband's fathers, their sons, their husbands' sons, their brothers or their brothers' sons, or their sisters' sons, or their women, or the slaves whom their right hands possess, or male servants free of physical needs, or small children who have no sense of the shame of sex; and that they should not strike their feet in order to draw attention to their hidden ornaments. And O ye Believers! turn ye all together towards Allah, that ye may attain Bliss.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
12 hours ago, Kaya said:

I probably won't buy from them anymore as well, since they want to make their products so ideologically motivated.

With that logic brother, you can't shop anywhere! :hahaha:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
13 hours ago, Revert1963 said:

I think the power they are talking about is the power that style of clothing has on men. But when you think of it, isn't advertising sexual favors to make men take down the garbage or fix your bike a kind of prostitution? And also how long does that power last? Once they have released their desire you can't make them do anything all of a sudden.
The narrative that goes into that kind of garment is really the same that is claiming that the hijab is oppressive. The idea that a woman can only be free if she objectify herself for men. I don't know if boycotting H&M will help, but I think that narrative need to be opposed. That could be difficult because there is a lot of money in it.

It is a narrative that needs to be opposed because it's dangerous, especially in conditioning the younger generations.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 hours ago, Guest Pschological Warfare said:

Both look at each other, not sure why we have bought into this propaganda that it is only Man. If something is repeated many times or the media markets it, and people buy into it , does not mean its true.

--------------

وَقُلْ لِلْمُؤْمِنَاتِ يَغْضُضْنَ مِنْ أَبْصَارِهِنَّ وَيَحْفَظْنَ فُرُوجَهُنَّ وَلَا يُبْدِينَ زِينَتَهُنَّ إِلَّا مَا ظَهَرَ مِنْهَا ۖ وَلْيَضْرِبْنَ بِخُمُرِهِنَّ عَلَىٰ جُيُوبِهِنَّ ۖ وَلَا يُبْدِينَ زِينَتَهُنَّ إِلَّا لِبُعُولَتِهِنَّ أَوْ آبَائِهِنَّ أَوْ آبَاءِ بُعُولَتِهِنَّ أَوْ أَبْنَائِهِنَّ أَوْ أَبْنَاءِ بُعُولَتِهِنَّ أَوْ إِخْوَانِهِنَّ أَوْ بَنِي إِخْوَانِهِنَّ أَوْ بَنِي أَخَوَاتِهِنَّ أَوْ نِسَائِهِنَّ أَوْ مَا مَلَكَتْ أَيْمَانُهُنَّ أَوِ التَّابِعِينَ غَيْرِ أُولِي الْإِرْبَةِ مِنَ الرِّجَالِ أَوِ الطِّفْلِ الَّذِينَ لَمْ يَظْهَرُوا عَلَىٰ عَوْرَاتِ النِّسَاءِ ۖ وَلَا يَضْرِبْنَ بِأَرْجُلِهِنَّ لِيُعْلَمَ مَا يُخْفِينَ مِنْ زِينَتِهِنَّ ۚ وَتُوبُوا إِلَى اللَّهِ جَمِيعًا أَيُّهَ الْمُؤْمِنُونَ لَعَلَّكُمْ تُفْلِحُونَ {31}

[Shakir 24:31] And say to the believing women that they cast down their looks and guard their private parts and do not display their ornaments except what appears thereof, and let them wear their head-coverings over their bosoms, and not display their ornaments except to their husbands or their fathers, or the fathers of their husbands, or their sons, or the sons of their husbands, or their brothers, or their brothers' sons, or their sisters' sons, or their women, or those whom their right hands possess, or the male servants not having need (of women), or the children who have not attained knowledge of what is hidden of women; and let them not strike their feet so that what they hide of their ornaments may be known; and turn to Allah all of you, O believers! so that you may be successful.
[Pickthal 24:31] And tell the believing women to lower their gaze and be modest, and to display of their adornment only that which is apparent, and to draw their veils over their bosoms, and not to reveal their adornment save to their own husbands or fathers or husbands' fathers, or their sons or their husbands' sons, or their brothers or their brothers' sons or sisters' sons, or their women, or their slaves, or male attendants who lack vigour, or children who know naught of women's nakedness. And let them not stamp their feet so as to reveal what they hide of their adornment. And turn unto Allah together, O believers, in order that ye may succeed.
[Yusufali 24:31] And say to the believing women that they should lower their gaze and guard their modesty; that they should not display their beauty and ornaments except what (must ordinarily) appear thereof; that they should draw their veils over their bosoms and not display their beauty except to their husbands, their fathers, their husband's fathers, their sons, their husbands' sons, their brothers or their brothers' sons, or their sisters' sons, or their women, or the slaves whom their right hands possess, or male servants free of physical needs, or small children who have no sense of the shame of sex; and that they should not strike their feet in order to draw attention to their hidden ornaments. And O ye Believers! turn ye all together towards Allah, that ye may attain Bliss.

I agree with you that both genders gaze; I had quoted what was said and I suggested that we ought to break the cycle of women showing too much often leading many men to struggle with lowering their gaze. it's a responsibility we all share as a society and we cannot rid ourselves of our social ills unless we work together.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Parts of the Muslim world (secular and non secular) have degraded women to a far greater degree. Forced non-hijab laws in the workplace, the cosmetics and clothing industry, nearly every Saudi law, illiteracy promotion, lower educational opportunities. All on nominal Muslim societies.

I suppose this shirt may be a hypocritical and patronizing element in a non-Muslim context, but let’s not miss the forest for the trees here. It didn’t begin or end with this.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, Moalfas said:

I brought up this issue as it's objectification of the female whilst claiming empowerment.

Oh.. but its not that deep enough to want to boycott them. Like if someone wants to buy that and wear it let them dayum why are we Muslims running around calling a boycott for.. a crop top? We have to accept that not everyone has the same beliefs and ideologies as us? 

I'm genuinely baffled I think this is the most absurd topic on shiachat. 

Isn't the whole idea of women empowerment that WE can wear what WE want? Not whats dictated to us by men or society or whatever? If a women wants to wear a chadoor or a crop top- its her choice 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Reza said:

Parts of the Muslim world (secular and non secular) have degraded women to a far greater degree. Forced non-hijab laws in the workplace, the cosmetics and clothing industry, nearly every Saudi law, illiteracy promotion, lower educational opportunities. All on nominal Muslim societies.

I suppose this shirt may be a hypocritical and patronizing element in a non-Muslim context, but let’s not miss the forest for the trees here. It didn’t begin or end with this.

Forcing non hijab law is an extension of western secular influence, it's just as wrong as forcing hijab by law.  

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
25 minutes ago, 400226 said:

Oh.. but its not that deep enough to want to boycott them. Like if someone wants to buy that and wear it let them dayum why are we Muslims running around calling a boycott for.. a crop top? We have to accept that not everyone has the same beliefs and ideologies as us? 

I'm genuinely baffled I think this is the most absurd topic on shiachat. 

Isn't the whole idea of women empowerment that WE can wear what WE want? Not whats dictated to us by men or society or whatever? If a women wants to wear a chadoor or a crop top- its her choice 

Perhaps if you read the posts properly, you wouldn't be so baffled. Feel free to wear whatever you want; no one's dictating anything here nor am I calling for boycotts. This thread is shedding light onto the issue of objectifying women and girls and protecting our younger generations from this corruption. There are many non Muslims and even people of no faith that share this view. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

4 minutes ago, Moalfas said:

Perhaps if you read the posts properly, you wouldn't be so baffled. Feel free to wear whatever you want; no one's dictating anything here nor am I calling for boycotts. This thread is shedding light onto the issue of objectifying women and girls and protecting our younger generations from this corruption. There are many non Muslims and even people of no faith that share this view. 

Guilty as charged, I totes skim read

Still baffled though. A crop top isn't corruption. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The "shirt" is stupid. I don't know anyone who would wear it.

But what I want to know is why can't I go into any department store and find normal pants and long shorts for my little girl? Why is everything short shorts and leggings or those stupid "jeggings" and are pockets on little girls' clothes obsolete? Where can I buy comfortable reasonable clothes for an active girl child?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 minutes ago, notme said:

But what I want to know is why can't I go into any department store and find normal

Your post reminded me of an article l read in the 70s. Probably in Reader's Digest.

This woman wrote of one instance where her grade school daughter had a sleep over. Mid elementary age as l remember. She wrote that when it was time to put all the girls to sleep, she was astounded that these other girls were wearing training bras (this l do remember) and wore/had some other stuff inappropriate for their age. The theme of her article was "what ever happened to being a little girl?".

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, hasanhh said:

Your post reminded me of an article l read in the 70s. Probably in Reader's Digest.

This woman wrote of one instance where her grade school daughter had a sleep over. Mid elementary age as l remember. She wrote that when it was time to put all the girls to sleep, she was astounded that these other girls were wearing training bras (this l do remember) and wore/had some other stuff inappropriate for their age. The theme of her article was "what ever happened to being a little girl?".

So maybe it has been a problem for a long time, and I've only noticed it when my own child is affected. I don't remember my mother having to search so hard for suitable clothing for my sisters and me. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 hours ago, Moalfas said:

Forcing non hijab law is an extension of western secular influence, it's just as wrong as forcing hijab by law.  

It doesn’t matter where such a law extended from, some Muslim societies do it, that’s the point.

Also, every society has minimum clothing laws, and if that minimum is hijab, so be it. I don’t see the moral equivalency you’re making.
 

But this is all off topic. The point is that Muslim societies, through many mechanisms (imported or from jahil culture), have degraded the female gender just like the “Western” world has.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 hours ago, Madre de Zahra said:

What's so offensive about the shirt? You can wear it at home. lol 

Oh hello! I've missed you, dear sister! (I used to be known as smiley.)

I have no use for the shirt, but if people feel comfortable wearing it, that's their business not mine. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You are posting as a guest. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.


×
×
  • Create New...