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In the Name of God بسم الله
Syed Ali Mehdi Shah Naqvi

Tehreef e Qur'an (Genral Discussion)

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4 hours ago, Syed Ali Mehdi Shah Naqvi said:

This guy everytime targets Ulima from other than Iraq / Iran.

I respectfully disagree. These are not some political discussions and there is no room for any deviance. There is only one truth, one reality, one way and I am not alone in my beliefs. Ulmaa are clearly defined by the ahadith of Hz. Imam Hassan Al-Askari (عليه السلام). Beg your pardon.

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This thread seems to be very unorganised so far. 

I would love to see narrations from al Kafi on this topic, for example. 

That would be more convincing than personal opinions. 

And I think we all agree that the Qur'an we have is the book we base our salvation on. Otherwise we wouldn't be Shia. 

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I haven’t studied or research personally  about who compiled Qur'an but I asked a Molana about it he said there is no tahreef in Qur'an and Usman was too Jahil to compile Qur'an it’s a lie that he compiled Qur'an ..it was Mola Ali(عليه السلام) who compiled Qur'an.

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20 hours ago, Syed Ali Mehdi Shah Naqvi said:

I should clear one thing that falsehood cannot come near Qur'an/Ahlebait thus its impossible for Qur'an to have additions.

 

When it comes to omision, I was saying that their teachings indeed were hidden by the people. And people wanted to twist the teachings in order to benefit them, thus they deviated from right path and rejected the order of Allah. Therefore people failing can not mean that Allah failed to deliever message.

 

The message of Allah is there when understood by traditions of Ahle Bait (عليه السلام). but it wouldn't make sense according to a common person since he like of one reads Qur'an 5:67 he might think that before and after this verse, talk is about a different topic not Ghadeer. 

 

However we have traditions from their books that Abdullah Ibn Masood (عليه السلام) said we used to recite this verse in days of Rasool (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم) like this:

O Messenger Proclaim the message that has been sent down upon you "That Ali is Mola of Momineen"  (Tafseer Dur Mansoor under 5:67 tafseer)

 

And many examples from our books as well.

 

I am only refering to ommisions

And there are countless traditions like that.

Your stance has clearly changed from calling it "the book" to "Qur'an".

You are implying that tehreef to you is in meaning but also claiming omission as tehreef.

So my question remains the same. Is it the Prophet's fault for leaving us with an incomplete book or the Prophet left a complete book but the Imams failed to protect it?

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20 hours ago, Syed Ali Mehdi Shah Naqvi said:

Along with Traditions of Ahle-Bait (عليه السلام)

Else there is no guidance in Qur'an for you if you leave the sayings of Muhammad (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم) and Aima (عليه السلام)

Why would you take guidance from an incomplete book? Surely you don’t believe in Hadith Thaqlayn!!!

The traditions of Ahlul Bayt you speak off include this hadith and it references "Qur'an" and "Ahlul Bayt". You refer to Qur'an as "book between 2 covers" so in one fell swoop you reject the Qur'an and the teachings of the Ahlul Bayt meaning you reject hadith thaqlayn.

Brother - I suggest you re-affirm your belief in the Qur'an else its merely reflecting on your (lack of) faith.

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12 hours ago, Qasim-Raza said:

I haven’t studied or research personally  about who compiled Qur'an but I asked a Molana about it he said there is no tahreef in Qur'an and Usman was too Jahil to compile Qur'an it’s a lie that he compiled Qur'an ..it was Mola Ali(عليه السلام) who compiled Qur'an.

:salam:

Never heard of this version.

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23 hours ago, Darth Vader said:

I respectfully disagree. These are not some political discussions and there is no room for any deviance. There is only one truth, one reality, one way and I am not alone in my beliefs. Ulmaa are clearly defined by the ahadith of Hz. Imam Hassan Al-Askari (عليه السلام). Beg your pardon.

in other thread, I will first ask you what Mujtahid Khoi says about Tafseer Imam Hassan Askari (عليه السلام)
and you will first need to prove your emaan on that book.

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On 10/21/2019 at 1:34 AM, Abu Nur said:

So if all or most of the traditions of Ahlul Bayt (عليه السلام) vanish, then the Qur'an itself stays it would be pointless book without giving guidance? Who is the one who is the Guide, Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) or Ahlul Bayt (عليه السلام)? 

I would reject that claim of VANISH  by one ayah:
 

Certainly We revealed the Reminder and certainly We shall preserve it.” (The Holy Qur’an 15: 9) 

Aren't the traditions of Muhammad (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم) and Ahlebait (عليه السلام) from Allah?
if yes than they cannot vanish because they are protected by Allah.

Thus, Allah guides us through Guided ones.
Allah never came down to guide anyone.
Rather he sent people to do so.

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7 hours ago, ShiaMan14 said:

Your stance has clearly changed from calling it "the book" to "Qur'an".

You are implying that tehreef to you is in meaning but also claiming omission as tehreef.

So my question remains the same. Is it the Prophet's fault for leaving us with an incomplete book or the Prophet left a complete book but the Imams failed to protect it?

Guidance is there and is protected and is complete. 
its fault of people for applying pick and choose methodology in religion.

The revelation isn't only Qur'an but hadiths as well and as a Muslim its fundamental believe that all teachings have reached us and the protector of these teachings the waris e Muhammad (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم) our 12 th Imam is there. 

also tafseer e ahlebait (عليه السلام) are filled up with those versions of Ayahs as well. Qur'an 5:67 and 4:59

its faliure of people, who refused to follow ahlebait (عليه السلام) after Rasool (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم) and collected their own piece of teachings and rejected the other. So there is no way you can blame Allah, Messenger (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم) or Ahle bait (عليه السلام) for that. If you refer to Ahle bait (عليه السلام), you still have whole complete deen along with guidence which is protected.

your questions reminds me off question of Sunnis that if ghadeer was so important, that Allah completed his deen on such an event 5:3
then why it isn't mentioned in Qur'an? 
also we find 5:3 at an strange odd place. while context of 5:3 like 5:67 is totally different.

therefore dhikr sent down by Allah is protected and avaliable for the one who seeks guidance, not for the group who rejects



 

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On 10/13/2019 at 9:13 PM, Syed Ali Mehdi Shah Naqvi said:

What is the strongest evidence that book in two covers (not Qur'an) has been protected from Omision

hmm, What is the strongest evidence that book in two covers among us, in not the Qur'an? 

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8 hours ago, ShiaMan14 said:

Why would you take guidance from an incomplete book? Surely you don’t believe in Hadith Thaqlayn!!!

The traditions of Ahlul Bayt you speak off include this hadith and it references "Qur'an" and "Ahlul Bayt". You refer to Qur'an as "book between 2 covers" so in one fell swoop you reject the Qur'an and the teachings of the Ahlul Bayt meaning you reject hadith thaqlayn.

Brother - I suggest you re-affirm your belief in the Qur'an else its merely reflecting on your (lack of) faith.

I may question, why do you follow hadith since it has contradictions as well?
Why do you follow them?

Qur'an is complete when understood along with teachings and interpretitons of ahlebait (عليه السلام) 
if you leave path of ahlebait (عليه السلام), Qur'an has no guidance for you. 

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8 hours ago, ShiaMan14 said:

Why would you take guidance from an incomplete book? Surely you don’t believe in Hadith Thaqlayn!!!

The traditions of Ahlul Bayt you speak off include this hadith and it references "Qur'an" and "Ahlul Bayt". You refer to Qur'an as "book between 2 covers" so in one fell swoop you reject the Qur'an and the teachings of the Ahlul Bayt meaning you reject hadith thaqlayn.

Brother - I suggest you re-affirm your belief in the Qur'an else its merely reflecting on your (lack of) faith.

If I was rejector of hadith e thaqalayn, would I be here saying Ali un wali ullah in tashahud azaan iqamah as a part and fighting Sunnis over imamte of 12 Imams (عليه السلام)
think before everything you say.

Edited by Syed Ali Mehdi Shah Naqvi

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7 minutes ago, Syed Ali Mehdi Shah Naqvi said:

The revelation isn't only Qur'an but hadiths

Revelation isn't even limited to Qur'an & Ahadith. So what you're talking about, Qur'an or Hadith or should we include what was revealed to the mother of Musa (عليه السلام) or to honey bee etc? 

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1 minute ago, Logic1234 said:

Revelation isn't even limited to Qur'an & Ahadith. So what you're talking about, Qur'an or Hadith or should we include what was revealed to the mother of Musa (عليه السلام) or to honey bee etc? 

Revelation in that ayah doesn't refers to what was revaled to Musa (عليه السلام) 's mother or honey bee, rather its what that was revealed upon Muhammad (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم).
Also I may question who are Ahle-Dhikr?

and revelation upon Prophet (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم) wasn't only what is in Book of Allah that was my point.

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15 minutes ago, Logic1234 said:

hmm, What is the strongest evidence that book in two covers among us, in not the Qur'an? 

For that you will need to produce an evidence for it that Book isn't Qur'an.
Else it has no value.

If you reverse Question to me, refer to tafseer e ayahsi under 4:59 commentry

Refer back to Allah and Messenger and Ulil Amr 
This verse is written as per Imams saying while highlighted part isnt present in Qur'an today.
However it wasn't lost either!
 

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1 minute ago, Syed Ali Mehdi Shah Naqvi said:

Revelation in that ayah doesn't refers to what was revaled to Musa (عليه السلام) 's mother or honey bee,

:bismillah:

وَأَوْحَى رَبُّكَ إِلَى النَّحْلِ أَنِ اتَّخِذِي مِنَ الْجِبَالِ بُيُوتًا وَمِنَ الشَّجَرِ وَمِمَّا يَعْرِشُونَ
(16:68)

 

وَأَوْحَيْنَا إِلَى أُمِّ مُوسَى أَنْ أَرْضِعِيهِ فَإِذَا خِفْتِ عَلَيْهِ فَأَلْقِيهِ فِي الْيَمِّ وَلَا تَخَافِي وَلَا تَحْزَنِي إِنَّا رَادُّوهُ إِلَيْكِ وَجَاعِلُوهُ مِنَ الْمُرْسَلِينَ

(28:7) 

What is the meaning of Awhayna in the above verses? 

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2 minutes ago, Syed Ali Mehdi Shah Naqvi said:

For that you will need to produce an evidence for it that Book isn't Qur'an.

Kitab can be anything, what do you mean by Book? Qalb of Prophet (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم) can be understood as book, Prophet (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم) himself can be understood as book (Natiq form). And the Book (Qur'an) which is among us in two covers is Samit book. 

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2 minutes ago, Logic1234 said:

:bismillah:

وَأَوْحَى رَبُّكَ إِلَى النَّحْلِ أَنِ اتَّخِذِي مِنَ الْجِبَالِ بُيُوتًا وَمِنَ الشَّجَرِ وَمِمَّا يَعْرِشُونَ
(16:68)

 

وَأَوْحَيْنَا إِلَى أُمِّ مُوسَى أَنْ أَرْضِعِيهِ فَإِذَا خِفْتِ عَلَيْهِ فَأَلْقِيهِ فِي الْيَمِّ وَلَا تَخَافِي وَلَا تَحْزَنِي إِنَّا رَادُّوهُ إِلَيْكِ وَجَاعِلُوهُ مِنَ الْمُرْسَلِينَ

(28:7) 

What is the meaning of Awhayna in the above verses? 

Point Number One:

Since what was revealed to Mother of Musa (عليه السلام) and bee is in Qur'an, therefore it has reached protected therefore your claim based on these ayahs is nullified.

Point Number Two:

What was revealed upon Mother of Musa (عليه السلام) or bee or other Prophets (عليه السلام) was indeed revelation,
but you should first prove that above ayah refers to those revelations.
We all know that previous books have been tempered and have additions as well therefore above ayah canoot refer to protections of preveious revelations rather its about protection of what has been revealed upon Muhammad (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم).
Also we are followers of Shariyat e Muhammadi (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم) and not of previous Ambiya (عليه السلام)
Please make arguments that have some logic  in them else change your name

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2 minutes ago, Logic1234 said:

Kitab can be anything, what do you mean by Book? Qalb of Prophet (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم) can be understood as book, Prophet (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم) himself can be understood as book (Natiq form). And the Book (Qur'an) which is among us in two covers is Samit book. 

Exactly. Everyhting revealed upon Qalb of Prophet was protected wasn't it?

can you deny this??

And weren't hadiths revealed to Prophet since according to Qur'an he wouldnt even say a single word without wahi?

so aren't those protected as well?
if yes than weren't hadiths twisted? isn't authentic hadith of ghadeer e khum twisted by Sunnis?
aren't hadiths having ommisions?

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2 minutes ago, Syed Ali Mehdi Shah Naqvi said:


Since what was revealed to Mother of Musa (عليه السلام) and bee is in Qur'an, therefore it has reached protected therefore your claim based on these ayahs is nullified.

lol, What was my claim? The verses saying clearly that Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) revealed something to Honey Bee & Mother of Musa (عليه السلام). It was a revelation, so the revelation is not limited to Qur'an & Ahadith, that was the only claim of mine. 
 

6 minutes ago, Syed Ali Mehdi Shah Naqvi said:

What was revealed upon Mother of Musa (عليه السلام) or bee or other Prophets (عليه السلام) was indeed revelation,
but you should first prove that above ayah refers to those revelations.
 

Look at the Arabic text of the verses quoted earlier, do you really need poof of Sun while it was shining on your head? 
 

8 minutes ago, Syed Ali Mehdi Shah Naqvi said:

We all know that previous books have been tempered and have additions as well therefore above ayah canoot refer to protections of preveious revelations rather its about protection of what has been revealed upon Muhammad (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم).
Also we are followers of Shariyat e Muhammadi (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم) and not of previous Ambiya (عليه السلام)
Please make arguments that have some logic  in them else change your name

Which above ayah? What protection? The verses shared were simply giving the "Tasdeeq" of some events happened in the earlier times. 

لَقَدْ كَانَ فِي قَصَصِهِمْ عِبْرَةٌ لِّأُوْلِي الأَلْبَابِ مَا كَانَ حَدِيثًا يُفْتَرَى وَلَـكِن تَصْدِيقَ الَّذِي بَيْنَ يَدَيْهِ وَتَفْصِيلَ كُلَّ شَيْءٍ وَهُدًى وَرَحْمَةً لِّقَوْمٍ يُؤْمِنُونَ

12:111 

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17 minutes ago, Syed Ali Mehdi Shah Naqvi said:

And weren't hadiths revealed to Prophet since according to Qur'an he wouldnt even say a single word without wahi?

Please explain your point in light of the following verse:


يَا أَيُّهَا النَّبِيُّ لِمَ تُحَرِّمُ مَا أَحَلَّ اللَّهُ لَكَ ۖ تَبْتَغِي مَرْضَاتَ أَزْوَاجِكَ ۚ وَاللَّهُ غَفُورٌ رَحِيمٌ 
66:1 

What do you think, Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) first revealed to Prophet (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم) to declare honey haram on himself then revealed this verse? And then Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) decided to exclude the earlier part from the book and keep this first verse of chapter 66 in the book? 

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9 hours ago, ShiaMan14 said:

So my question remains the same. Is it the Prophet's fault for leaving us with an incomplete book or the Prophet left a complete book but the Imams failed to protect it?

He don't have any answer for these questions. 

 

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On 10/14/2019 at 3:13 AM, Syed Ali Mehdi Shah Naqvi said:

As salam o aliakum

Lets begin with the Question,

What is the strongest evidence that book in two covers (not Qur'an) has been protected from Omision while we see countless authentic traditions saying that this verse was revealed like this and those hadiths have some extra portions.

As far as I have seen, this book we have right now is a portion of what was revealed. 

What do you guys say on this?

Ws,

Just for now, I would say ' I doubt you are a frequent reader of the Qur'an, let alone, you completed from cover to cover'. Or else, your tongue, would not had the audacity to say such things.

What do you say on this?

Edited by ShiaMahamed

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15 hours ago, Syed Ali Mehdi Shah Naqvi said:

I would reject that claim of VANISH  by one ayah:
 

Certainly We revealed the Reminder and certainly We shall preserve it.” (The Holy Qur’an 15: 9) 

Aren't the traditions of Muhammad (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم) and Ahlebait (عليه السلام) from Allah?
if yes than they cannot vanish because they are protected by Allah.

Thus, Allah guides us through Guided ones.
Allah never came down to guide anyone.
Rather he sent people to do so.

So you are saying there are omissions in the Qur'an but nothing "vanished" from the Qur'an?

14 hours ago, Syed Ali Mehdi Shah Naqvi said:

Guidance is there and is protected and is complete. 
its fault of people for applying pick and choose methodology in religion.

The revelation isn't only Qur'an but hadiths as well and as a Muslim its fundamental believe that all teachings have reached us and the protector of these teachings the waris e Muhammad (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم) our 12 th Imam is there. 

Once again, you keep changing your stance. Guidance is complete and all teachings have reached us BUT Qur'an is incomplete because there are omissions.

14 hours ago, Syed Ali Mehdi Shah Naqvi said:

your questions reminds me off question of Sunnis that if ghadeer was so important, that Allah completed his deen on such an event 5:3
then why it isn't mentioned in Qur'an? 
also we find 5:3 at an strange odd place. while context of 5:3 like 5:67 is totally different.

therefore dhikr sent down by Allah is protected and avaliable for the one who seeks guidance, not for the group who rejects

Right because you find something strange, it must be wrong. Makes sense.

14 hours ago, Syed Ali Mehdi Shah Naqvi said:

I may question, why do you follow hadith since it has contradictions as well?
Why do you follow them?

Qur'an is complete when understood along with teachings and interpretitons of ahlebait (عليه السلام) 
if you leave path of ahlebait (عليه السلام), Qur'an has no guidance for you. 

Whenever 2 hadith contradict each other, we analyse it with the Qur'an to accept one and reject the other ir reject both.

So Qur'an is complete again. You seem very confused about your own belief system.

14 hours ago, Syed Ali Mehdi Shah Naqvi said:

If I was rejector of hadith e thaqalayn, would I be here saying Ali un wali ullah in tashahud azaan iqamah as a part and fighting Sunnis over imamte of 12 Imams (عليه السلام)
think before everything you say.

Of course you are rejecting hadith thaqlayn if you are saying g there are omissions in the Qur'an.

Once we correct your views on the Qur'an, we can address "Aliyun Waliallah" in tashhahud.

think before everything you say.

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1 hour ago, Darth Vader said:

In an other thread he cites Qur'anic verses permitting prostration to ghair Allah. In this thread he is busy weakening the Qur'an for himself. He rejects taqleed and demeans mujtahids, then he cites their fatawa for three testimonies in tashahhud. How can someone debate with that.

I think he is just confused about his own belief system that's why he keeps fluctuating between Qur'an being complete or having omissions.

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19 hours ago, Syed Ali Mehdi Shah Naqvi said:

your questions reminds me off question of Sunnis that if ghadeer was so important, that Allah completed his deen on such an event 5:3
then why it isn't mentioned in Qur'an? 
also we find 5:3 at an strange odd place. while context of 5:3 like 5:67 is totally different.

Salam they are not different if you read whole of Surah you can connect dots to see it as a clear manifestation about Imamate of Imam Ali (عليه السلام) although specific verses like these two verses are clearly about Imam Ali (عليه السلام)

 

19 hours ago, Syed Ali Mehdi Shah Naqvi said:

Also I may question who are Ahle-Dhikr?

and revelation upon Prophet (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم) wasn't only what is in Book of Allah that was my point.

Ahle-Dhikr are Imam Ali (عليه السلام) & 11 Imam after him & some revelation came to Prophet Muhammad (pbu) that said in hadiths that is caling Hadith Qudsi that revealed as Qur'an but are not from verses of Qur'an for example Dua Jawshan Kabir revealed like Qur'an to Prophet Muhammad (pbu) through arch angel Jibra’il (عليه السلام) 

 It has been mentioned in the book, Balad al-Amin and the Misbah of Kafa`mi that Imam `Ali ibn al-Hussain Sayyid as-Sajjidin (prayers be upon him) related from his father from his grandfather the Prophet of Allah (blessings of Allah be upon him and his family) that this supplication was taught by the Angel Jibra’il (prayers be upon him) to the Prophet (blessings of Allah be upon him and his family) during one of the battles.It was in one of the wars that the Prophet (blessings of Allah be upon him and his family) had taken part in which he had a very heavy and expensive coat of armor on to protect himself. It is related that the coat was so heavy that it was hurting the body of the Prophet (prayers of Allah be upon him and his family). In this state,the Angel Jibra’il (prayers be upon him) came to the Prophet (blessings of Allah be upon him and his family) and said: “O’ Muhammad! Your Lord conveys his salutations to you and has said to take this coat of armor (Jawshan) and to recite it as this is a protection for you and your Ummah.

http://en.wikishia.net/view/Al-Jawshan_al-Kabir_Supplication

http://www.duas.org/jkabeer1.htm

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19 hours ago, Syed Ali Mehdi Shah Naqvi said:

Exactly. Everyhting revealed upon Qalb of Prophet was protected wasn't it?

can you deny this??

And weren't hadiths revealed to Prophet since according to Qur'an he wouldnt even say a single word without wahi?

so aren't those protected as well?
if yes than weren't hadiths twisted? isn't authentic hadith of ghadeer e khum twisted by Sunnis?
aren't hadiths having ommisions?

they can't reject exact text of hadith of Ghadeer but wahabists are trying to show that documents of it is weak that unknowingly are rejecting authenticity of their hadith books & as I know currently only wahabi channels are translating Mwala to friend but Sunnis like as Al-Azhar scholars are silent about it or refrain from accepting the truth but they don't have a strong voice like as wahabists.

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5 hours ago, Darth Vader said:

In an other thread he cites Qur'anic verses permitting prostration to ghair Allah. In this thread he is busy weakening the Qur'an for himself. He rejects taqleed and demeans mujtahids, then he cites their fatawa for three testimonies in tashahhud. How can someone debate with that.

1 He cites verses permitting prostration to ghair Allah

In that thread, I mentioned many times, that I was just quoting dalial of party who do sajda to Imams etc
while in the end, I admitted when brother gave me hadiths that that it was prohibited by Imams and discussion was closed.
you are lying upon me since tashahud topic. I also said that my father is strictly against doing sajda to other than Allah as well.

2. Busy weakening Qur'an

Wrong, I am actually trying to weaken the rejectors of wilayat e Masomeen who has done all this in order to mis-guide and deviate people.
Omissions have nothing to do with weakning of Qur'an and this is what can't go into thick skull of yours.
Qur'an isn't only the book but I believe this statement wouldn't go through the thick skull of yours again.

3. He rejects taqleed and still quotes fatwa of mujtahids

its like Sunnis saying, Shias reject sahih bukhari still quote hadiths from it
such a childish claim. it proves that you have no sense at all
When we have to discuss something, we present sources or laws accepted by opponent in order to convince them.
if any Marja of yours quote hadiths then they are hujjah on us but not their opinion.
we don't do taqleed so what? Are Akhbaris not Shias? think before you speak
also when we have masail we ask alims and this is called ruju 
but we aren't bound to one alim, we hear to alot, and the one whom our mind accepts closer to teachings of masoomeen, we accept it
unlike you people who can't even deny single fatwa of your mujtahid else you will break your taqleed. 
also this isn't the topic.

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18 hours ago, ShiaMahamed said:

Ws,

Just for now, I would say ' I doubt you are a frequent reader of the Qur'an, let alone, you completed from cover to cover'. Or else, your tongue, would not had the audacity to say such things.

What do you say on this?

I never hide anything neither am I a liar.
yes I am not a frequent reader of Qur'an.
I am only discussing this base upon hadiths that are found also since all guys here are people who know much more than me, therfore we have started this discussion here to get some strong evidences

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@ShiaMan14 and @Logic1234

Salute to both of you guys.
How irelevent have you been in this entire topic, its clear to the people who have some sense.

Basically, you want to confuse the people by pointing to my usage of word Qur'an.
At some places (if you have some sense you can see) I mean Book of Allah
and at some places, Muhammad (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم) and Aima (عليه السلام) along with book.

In routine, we call the book Qur'an which indeed it is so please stop confusing the people.
also I have written answers to the questions you repeated, they are baseless .
I will not repeat answers as I have no time for that.

 

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image.thumb.png.e44284bbd778323d034b963ae244791d.png

I Challenge you if you are truthful
bring single comment in which I said,
this or that is wrong in Qur'an (Nauzobillah)

Stop being an emotional kid. let open Surah maida for the people here:

 

O you who have believed, fulfill [all] contracts. Lawful for you are the animals of grazing livestock except for that which is recited to you [in this Qur'an] - hunting not being permitted while you are in the state of ihram. Indeed, Allah ordains what He intends.

 

O you who have believed, do not violate the rites of Allah or [the sanctity of] the sacred month or [neglect the marking of] the sacrificial animals and garlanding [them] or [violate the safety of] those coming to the Sacred House seeking bounty from their Lord and [His] approval. But when you come out of ihram, then [you may] hunt. And do not let the hatred of a people for having obstructed you from al-Masjid al-Haram lead you to transgress. And cooperate in righteousness and piety, but do not cooperate in sin and aggression. And fear Allah ; indeed, Allah is severe in penalty.

 

Prohibited to you are dead animals, blood, the flesh of swine, and that which has been dedicated to other than Allah, and [those animals] killed by strangling or by a violent blow or by a head-long fall or by the goring of horns, and those from which a wild animal has eaten, except what you [are able to] slaughter [before its death], and those which are sacrificed on stone altars, and [prohibited is] that you seek decision through divining arrows. That is grave disobedience. This day those who disbelieve have despaired of [defeating] your religion; so fear them not, but fear Me. This day I have perfected for you your religion and completed My favor upon you and have approved for you Islam as religion. But whoever is forced by severe hunger with no inclination to sin - then indeed, Allah is Forgiving and Merciful.

 

They ask you, [O Muhammad], what has been made lawful for them. Say, "Lawful for you are [all] good foods and [game caught by] what you have trained of hunting animals which you train as Allah has taught you. So eat of what they catch for you, and mention the name of Allah upon it, and fear Allah ." Indeed, Allah is swift in account.

 

This day [all] good foods have been made lawful, and the food of those who were given the Scripture is lawful for you and your food is lawful for them. And [lawful in marriage are] chaste women from among the believers and chaste women from among those who were given the Scripture before you, when you have given them their due compensation, desiring chastity, not unlawful sexual intercourse or taking [secret] lovers. And whoever denies the faith - his work has become worthless, and he, in the Hereafter, will be among the losers.

 

O you who have believed, when you rise to [perform] prayer, wash your faces and your forearms to the elbows and wipe over your heads and wash your feet to the ankles. And if you are in a state of janabah, then purify yourselves. But if you are ill or on a journey or one of you comes from the place of relieving himself or you have contacted women and do not find water, then seek clean Earth and wipe over your faces and hands with it. Allah does not intend to make difficulty for you, but He intends to purify you and complete His favor upon you that you may be grateful.

 

And remember the favor of Allah upon you and His covenant with which He bound you when you said, "We hear and we obey"; and fear Allah . Indeed, Allah is Knowing of that within the breasts.

 

O you who have believed, be persistently standing firm for Allah, witnesses in justice, and do not let the hatred of a people prevent you from being just. Be just; that is nearer to righteousness. And fear Allah ; indeed, Allah is Acquainted with what you do.

 
and list Goes on
what I was saying that 5:3 was revealed at the most important event, (Ghadeer
and Qur'an is clear isn't it? 
Then any rational mind, can he tell by reading it that it is talking about Ghadeer?
Why?
Because you are reading selective portion and if you apply this methodology, you will
surely be distracted even by reading verses of this book
same goes for 5:67

If you take the whole Qur'an, then you will understand the meaning of verses
and that Qur'an isn't only this book its Muhammad o Aale Muhammad (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم)
along with this book.
I was saying there are hadiths pointing to omissions and this was what I was trying to discuss
but no way , there is no way you can say that I'm weakening Qur'an or if there are omissions then its incomplete

because we have teachigns of ahlebait (عليه السلام) which are also revelation and they are Qur'an as well and everything is complete
and protected by Qur'an (12th Imam (عليه السلام)), authenticity and protection can not be bought under question nauzobillah,
we are only referring to omisions
like there were names of Imams in Qur'an,
but today they arent there so its an omission for example,
but we have them in hadiths from AHlebait (عليه السلام) don’t we?
Therfore message is complete and protected and Imams never failed to protect it
stop twisting things both of you
 

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3 hours ago, Syed Ali Mehdi Shah Naqvi said:

How irelevent have you been in this entire topic, its clear to the people who have some sense.

:) It seems to me that it is not even clear to you what you want to ask. Never have I seen person like you, jumping here & there instead of asking straight forward what has been mentioned in our hadith books I.e., there is a tehreef in Qur'an and several words have been omitted from its text and/or shuffled purposefully. In other words, it is mentioned in many ahadith that tehreef has been done in the book present among us in two covers (according to your definition). 

So are these ahadith contradicting the Qur'an? 

People can present verses from Qur'an, specifically this:

 

Quote
إِنَّا نَحْنُ نَزَّلْنَا الذِّكْرَ وَإِنَّا لَهُ لَحَافِظُونَ {9}

[Shakir 15:9] Surely We have revealed the Reminder and We will most surely be its guardian.
[Pickthal 15:9] Lo! We, even We, reveal the Reminder, and lo! We verily are its Guardian.
[Yusufali 15:9] We have, without doubt, sent down the Message; and We will assuredly guard it (from corruption).

All you have to say is that the "dhikr" here in above verse is Prophet (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم) therefore the book among us in two covers, can be a victim of tehreef. But what you have to say for the following verse:

 

Quote
وَقَالُوا يَا أَيُّهَا الَّذِي نُزِّلَ عَلَيْهِ الذِّكْرُ إِنَّكَ لَمَجْنُونٌ {6}

[Shakir 15:6] And they say: O you to whom the Reminder has been revealed! you are most surely insane:
[Pickthal 15:6] And they say: O thou unto whom the Reminder is revealed, lo! thou art indeed a madman!
[Yusufali 15:6] They say: "O thou to whom the Message is being revealed! truly thou art mad (or possessed)!

Here "dhikr" is something other than the Prophet (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم). It is the Qur'an, the Book present among us in two covers, and it is free from corruption and it is well protected in the purified breasts
 

Quote
بَلْ هُوَ آيَاتٌ بَيِّنَاتٌ فِي صُدُورِ الَّذِينَ أُوتُوا الْعِلْمَ ۚ وَمَا يَجْحَدُ بِآيَاتِنَا إِلَّا الظَّالِمُونَ {49}

[Shakir 29:49] Nay! these are clear communications in the breasts of those who are granted knowledge; and none deny Our communications except the unjust.
[Pickthal 29:49] But it is clear revelations in the hearts of those who have been given knowledge, and none deny Our revelations save wrong-doers.
[Yusufali 29:49] Nay, here are Signs self-evident in the hearts of those endowed with knowledge: and none but the unjust reject Our Signs.


The Book among us in two covers, its revelation & its collection both, are completely in accordance with the divine commands & plans. 

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39 minutes ago, Logic1234 said:

:) It seems to me that it is not even clear to you what you want to ask. Never have I seen person like you, jumping here & there instead of asking straight forward what has been mentioned in our hadith books I.e., there is a tehreef in Qur'an and several words have been omitted from its text and/or shuffled purposefully. In other words, it is mentioned in many ahadith that tehreef has been done in the book present among us in two covers (according to your definition). 

So are these ahadith contradicting the Qur'an? 

People can present verses from Qur'an, specifically this:

 

All you have to say is that the "dhikr" here in above verse is Prophet (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم) therefore the book among us in two covers, can be a victim of tehreef. But what you have to say for the following verse:

 

Here "dhikr" is something other than the Prophet (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم). It is the Qur'an, the Book present among us in two covers, and it is free from corruption and it is well protected in the purified breasts
 


The Book among us in two covers, its revelation & its collection both, are completely in accordance with the divine commands & plans. 

I knew it was a misunderstanding. Now LISTEN CAREFULLY!

I said dhikr in above verse was what was revealed to Prophet Muhammad (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم), as Allah says we have sent down this dhikr.
And not only this book was revealed to Prophet Muhammad (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم), also all the hadiths we have are also sent down by Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى).
since Prophet (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم) wouldn't even say a word but with command of Allah.

so if your meaning of protection is only anti-omission then were hadiths not in this dhikr sent down by Allah?
if yes then why do we see tehreef in hadiths as well? omissions sepecifically in hadiths.?

therefore protection and completeness of Qur'an has nothing to do with twist in its meanings or omissions since all guidance as ultimatly reached us through 
route of Ahlebait (عليه السلام) and Book of Allah.





 

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