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Propaganda_of_the_Deed

The teenager married too many times to count

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https://www.bbc.co.United Kingdom/news/extra/iuKTEGjKgS/teenage_iraq_brides

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A BBC investigation has uncovered a secret world of sexual exploitation of children and young women by religious figures.

Clerics are grooming vulnerable girls in Iraq and offering them for sex, using a controversial religious practice known as “pleasure marriage”.

 

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Though it isn't possible to verify all the details of Rusul's story, sources have confirmed that many elements of her account are similar to those of other girls who have been exploited by clerics in this way.

The fact that they’re sharing this despite the fact that they don’t know its credibility shows what they want to accomplish. I don’t want to be the conspiracy theorist here but anyone who noticed how this was published alongside the protests in Iraq? 

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1 hour ago, ireallywannaknow said:

Article sounds desperate. 

Would be interesting to know more about Rusuls background, why she was alone and not able to go to school in the first place. 

Also how she got to be working, then getting married a certain number or times while still being a teenager.

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Most likely full of half-truths.. These western news agencies are doing their job as usual. If they couldn't use half-truths for a campaign or broader project, sometimes they would tell outright lies.

Edited by 000

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14 minutes ago, 3wliya_maryam said:

Imam Khameini

proof? As far as I know it is written in his risalah that father's permission is required.

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33 minutes ago, 3wliya_maryam said:

Imam Khameini

Let’s be rational if he says it’s highly makrūh do you really think he would suggest to perform the act so a girls virginity won’t be taken awayA84D3158-EB7E-4688-BE27-20FF723AF518.thumb.jpeg.8afec18d85be6ec6cba20da4ff3f4232.jpeg

Edited by Lebanese313

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16 minutes ago, 000 said:

proof? As far as I know it is written in his risalah that father's permission is required.

well as far as I know I recall that he did state penetration of a suckling baby is somewhat permissible? or that deriving pleasure from a young girl is somewhat acceptable? Allahu a3lam

 

7 minutes ago, Lebanese313 said:

Let’s be rational if he says it’s highly makrūh do you really think he would suggest to perform the act so a girl’s virginity won’t be taken away18E0C99F-CA91-48E6-A2BA-B843ABC7336E.thumb.jpeg.236d040dfc90406fd12814fb6c6627f3.jpeg

F4F20B25-AF80-4CED-AE7E-154981F16A6D.png

sorry I can't see the pics

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9 minutes ago, 3wliya_maryam said:

well as far as I know I recall that he did state penetration of a suckling baby is somewhat permissible? or that deriving pleasure from a young girl is somewhat acceptable? Allahu a3lam

 

sorry I can't see the pics

Try again I edited it you should be able to see the picture now. But that’s the same thing sayyed Sistani said according to the article although they mentioned that he said it a long time ago and that this fatwa was deleted out of his book. It could be similar to sayyed Khamenei but show the fatwa if you could find it. And the fact that (if sayyed Khamenei also said it) both the maraji’ said it then it would clearly be with a reason they don’t say things out of themselves. Don’t forget the scholar in the article said he’s a follower of Sayyed Sistani

Quote

Sayyed Raad had said he was a follower of Grand Ayatollah Ali Sistani, Iraq's most influential Shia cleric. 

 

Edited by Lebanese313

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16 minutes ago, Lebanese313 said:

Let’s be rational if he says it’s highly makrūh do you really think he would suggest to perform the act so a girls virginity won’t be taken awayA84D3158-EB7E-4688-BE27-20FF723AF518.thumb.jpeg.8afec18d85be6ec6cba20da4ff3f4232.jpeg

thankyou for sharing this. My mistake, I realised I was talking about something else. 

2 minutes ago, Lebanese313 said:

Try again I edited it you should be able to see the picture now. But that’s the same thing sayyed Sistani said according to the article although they mentioned that he said it a long time ago and that this fatwa was deleted out of his book. It could be similar to sayyed Khamenei but show the fatwa if you could find it. And the fact that (if sayyed Khamenei also said it) both the maraji’ said it then it would clearly be with a reason they don’t say things out of themselves.

I am aware that Sayyid Sistani also issued this fatwa apparently, and I think they both also said it was highly makruh or something. 

 

4 minutes ago, Lebanese313 said:

it would clearly be with a reason they don’t say things out of themselves.

so are you saying that they based this kind of ruling from the Qur'an and ahadith?

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I saw this article yesterday. What consenting adults do in their private lives is their business. If a woman wants to marry a different man every few months, that's her business, not mine.

But if women and children are being forced or coerced into these marriages, that would be rape if the "husband" knows she didn't consent, or at best fornication. Marriage without consent of both parties is invalid.

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1 hour ago, 3wliya_maryam said:

well as far as I know I recall that he did state penetration of a suckling baby is somewhat permissible? or that deriving pleasure from a young girl is somewhat acceptable? Allahu a3lam

No, that was supposedly Khomeini, there was a massive thread on it sometime ago.... 

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9 hours ago, Propaganda_of_the_Deed said:

Are you sure that those self-called clerics are not funded by any other country to defame Islam?

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3 hours ago, 3wliya_maryam said:

Imam Khameini

I heard that the book attributed to Imam Khomeini is highly controversial as its Arabic is even not scholarly and has traces of persian terminology.

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44 minutes ago, Jibrael-e-Muhammadi said:

Are you sure that those self-called clerics are not funded by any other country to defame Islam?

I can assure you that we have amongst our communities -just like in every other community- people that exploit women and use religion as cover. 

There's no point in trying to point fingers at the outside when we know these problems do exist.

The honourable thing to do is to admit that Mut'a is being used for exploitation and tackle the issue by bringing the culprits to justice and ensuring we put together safeguards to protect the vulnerable. 

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The ultimate aim is to create a rift among iraqis and the marjae.

They are scared of the marjae as they saw, the fatwa of one marja and the respect iraqis had for him changed the tide of the war that they started.

Gods curse on the enemies of Islam.

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24 minutes ago, Moalfas said:

The honourable thing to do is to admit that Mut'a is being used for exploitation and tackle the issue by bringing the culprits to justice and ensuring we put together safeguards to protect the vulnerable. 

Men always exploit women who are in a vulnerable position. The same thing is happening in Iraq. I was there nearly 3 years ago when I was told by an Iraqi that women are selling their bodies to feed their children right there in Najaf. 

We might choose to look the other way, deny it, ignore it but the fact remains that it's happening and the better approach would be to address the problems rather than pretending it's not happening. 

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11 minutes ago, Soldiers and Saffron said:

The ultimate aim is to create a rift among iraqis and the marjae.

They are scared of the marjae as they saw, the fatwa of one marja and the respect iraqis had for him changed the tide of the war that they started.

Gods curse on the enemies of Islam.

This again is an attempt to detract from the fact that we have a problem of sick and twisted individuals exploiting the vulnerable through Mut'a 

May God cruse all injustice which includes those who exploit the vulnerable whoever they may be.

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11 minutes ago, Moalfas said:

This again is an attempt to detract from the fact that we have a problem of sick and twisted individuals exploiting the vulnerable through Mut'a 

May God cruse all injustice which includes those who exploit the vulnerable whoever they may be.

Theres always sick and twisted individuals in every place on this Earth.

If you want to help the women who out of poverty engage in mutah, you may go to the many websites that donate money to war orphanages in Iraq and maybe give them a chance not to have to go through poverty which results in such things.

 

This site is good:
http://noororphansfund.org/

Edited by Soldiers and Saffron

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5 minutes ago, starlight said:

Men always exploit women who are in a vulnerable position. The same thing is happening in Iraq. I was there nearly 3 years ago when I was told by an Iraqi that women are selling their bodies to feed their children right there in Najaf. 

We might choose to look the other way, deny it, ignore it but the fact remains that it's happening and the better approach would be to address the problems rather than pretending it's not happening. 

I agree with everything you said. I do however have a comment regarding your first sentence if I may: 

Men don't -always- exploit women. Any human being can exploit any other human who is in a vulnerable position. Yes a lot of men exploit women, and a lot of women also exploit men just as a lot of employers exploit their employees etc 

The fact remains that we as a community must stand up and admit that we have a problem that we need to address rather than try to detract from it.

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11 minutes ago, Soldiers and Saffron said:

Theres always sick and twisted individuals in every place on this Earth.

If you want to help the women who out of poverty engage in mutah, you may go to the many websites that donate money to war orphanages in Iraq and maybe give them a chance not to have to go through poverty which results in such things.

 

This site is good:
http://noororphansfund.org/

I'm glad you finally agree that we have a problem like every other community. This is a good start. 

The fact that these sick twisted individuals are using our faith to prey on the vulnerable makes it a much more serious issue for us as we hold ourselves to a very high standard being the lovers of Ahlul Bayt as. 

And by the way the issue is much deeper than simply 'women engaging in Mut'a out of poverty' 

Women and girls are being pimped and prostituted in the name of Mut'a by sick and twisted Individuals that are using faith to exploit them. 

There are several ways we can address the problem including fighting poverty. An immediate goal would be to hold those criminals to account and protect the vulnerable by raising awareness of this issue.

 

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1 hour ago, Moalfas said:

Men don't -always- exploit women. Any human being can exploit any other human who is in a vulnerable position.

I agree. I had this in mind when I wrote my post but since this was about women so I left it as such. 

28 minutes ago, Guest Bham said:

It is just mutah. We should stand firm and be proud. 

Firm and proud about misusing a religious practice?

Edited by starlight

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57 minutes ago, Moalfas said:

I'm glad you finally agree that we have a problem like every other community. This is a good start. 

The fact that these sick twisted individuals are using our faith to prey on the vulnerable makes it a much more serious issue for us as we hold ourselves to a very high standard being the lovers of Ahlul Bayt as. 

And by the way the issue is much deeper than simply 'women engaging in Mut'a out of poverty' 

Women and girls are being pimped and prostituted in the name of Mut'a by sick and twisted Individuals that are using faith to exploit them. 

There are several ways we can address the problem including fighting poverty. An immediate goal would be to hold those criminals to account and protect the vulnerable by raising awareness of this issue.

 

Finally agree? I have never claimed that our community is without faults.

 

Let us get something straight:

A women is suffering poverty and is severe need of money to survive, in order to do so she contacts a man that can find her possible men so that she may survive, the guy finds her men, she has mutah and assuming that iddah is respected, she gets what she need to supply for herself and the guy gets his needs met.

The man who arranges the contact between women in dire need of money ready to do mutah for it with men in dire need of mutah ready to pay money for it also gets compensation for arraning the matches.

 

Given that the rules of mutah was respected in all regards (such as iddah and consent), I can't see that anyone took advantage of anyone in this situation.

If the women was not in dire need of sustenance then she would not look for this last option, so yes, poverty is the cause of this unfortunate situation. 

You want to change it, change the future:

http://noororphansfund.org/

You can sponsor an orphan for 20 euro a month, if you decide to dedicate 10 percent of your monthly salary to this cause then you can sponsor several female orphans and hopefully give them a chance to get an education and not have to live of desperation.

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10 minutes ago, Soldiers and Saffron said:

Finally agree? I have never claimed that our community is without faults.

 

Let us get something straight:

A women is suffering poverty and is severe need of money to survive, in order to do so she contacts a man that can find her possible men so that she may survive, the guy finds her men, she has mutah and assuming that iddah is respected, she gets what she need to supply for herself and the guy gets his needs met.

The man who arranges the contact between women in dire need of money ready to do mutah for it with men in dire need of mutah ready to pay money for it also gets compensation for arraning the matches.

 

Given that the rules of mutah was respected in all regards (such as iddah and consent), I can't see that anyone took advantage of anyone in this situation.

If the women was not in dire need of sustenance then she would not look for this last option, so yes, poverty is the cause of this unfortunate situation. 

Unfortunately, your simplistic hypothetical story indicates your lack of awareness of exactly what is going on. I'm not even sure if you understand that your hypothetical scenario actually amounts to typical case of facilitating prostitution. 

A- The women in these cases are mainly victims who could have ended up in that situation for many reasons other than simply poverty.

B- The pimps that you refer to as 'man is dire need of money' are criminals facilitating prostitution of vulnerable women.

C- The men 'in dire need of Mut'a' as you refer to them are abusers who mainly go around looking for young girls to exploit.

All this is happening under the cover of Halal Mut'a marriage. Non of this is Halal nor is it valid.

Here are some facts for you to also ponder:

1. Many of the women and girls are being tricked into this rather than 'consenting'

2. In the cases of Mut'a exploitation, the parameters شرائط of Mut'a are NOT being adhered to. 

This is a form of prostituation in the name of Mut'a 

We're not taking about two consenting individuals who agree to marry Mut'a. 

If I were you, I'd think twice before juistifying this abhorrent and disgusting abuse. 

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11 minutes ago, Moalfas said:

B- The pimps that you refer to as 'man is dire need of money' are criminals facilitating prostitution of vulnerable women.

Please reread what I wrote, I never refered to the "pimps" as "man in dire need of money".

 

12 minutes ago, Moalfas said:

Non of this is Halal nor is it valid.

Based on what exactly? What is morally right and wrong is not always whats legally allowed or not.

You assuming the girl was physically forced or in some way blackmailed or what is your scenario exactly? How are they tricked into it? Could you give some examples?

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32 minutes ago, Soldiers and Saffron said:

How are they tricked into it? Could you give some examples?

 

Quote

The ceremony itself was brief - the cleric recited a few words, asked her whether she agreed with the $250 [£200] dowry she would receive and presented her with the contract. Rusul couldn’t read, but even if she could she might not have realised anything was amiss.

 

Quote

Little did Rusul know that their marriage had an end-date before it had even begun.

Another girl in the article:

Quote

Even if she had, she might well have missed the fact that it was a mutaa marriage, since the contract is the same as a regular Sharia marriage contract - the cleric just writes “mutaa” in brackets, a detail that is easy to miss. 

 

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