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In the Name of God بسم الله
Jaane Rabb

Upcoming BBC documentary "Undercover with the clerics"

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1 minute ago, Soldiers and Saffron said:

There is no truth they will show you that is not mixed with what they themselves want the truth to be.

I would be more concerned with the truth of who destroyed my country rather than the truth of whos having mutah with who if I was a young Iraqi.

Thats contradictory, we should all be worried about every wrong that goes on, from the smallest to the biggest.

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3 minutes ago, Soldiers and Saffron said:

would be more concerned with the truth of who destroyed my country rather than the truth of whos having mutah with who if I was a young Iraqi.

Thanks for mentioning mutah. The documentary will most likely present the worst case scenarios but it's also very likely that what they will show in the documentary is mutah. And regardless of my own opinion of mutah and how damaging it is especially to people who are living below the poverty line in countries like Iraq, the documentary wont show that it is in fact a legal (in some circumstances) marriage. 

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Just now, Ruqaya101 said:

Thats contradictory, we should all be worried about every wrong that goes on, from the smallest to the biggest.

If that's your mindset, that your immortal and have time to worry about every problem in the world, then at least make sure to acquire the truth from objective sources and trust me BBC is not objective.

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4 minutes ago, Soldiers and Saffron said:

If that's your mindset, that your immortal and have time to worry about every problem in the world, then at least make sure to acquire the truth from objective sources and trust me BBC is not objective.

No one mentioned immortality, thats fictional which shows you aren't exactly the best of sources yourself. But, Prophet Muhammad saws advised us to correct (even by bringing up an issue) no matter how small or big.

You should not be so blinded, I'm serious, Im not saying it out of bad intent. Forget BBC, start opening your eyes to what goes on. This isn't even about mut'ah but people here just have to always change it to that.

Edited by Ruqaya101

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35 minutes ago, Soldiers and Saffron said:

Imagine relying on BBC to inform you about the world

Other than the clergy involved and their lovers, who would expose such a thing? Alas, sometimes it needs a "nawasib" to point out the dirt and that's the shameful part.

6 minutes ago, Soldiers and Saffron said:

I would be more concerned with the truth of who destroyed my country rather than the truth of whos having mutah with who if I was a young Iraqi.

So they're a victim of their past (raped and pillaged) and now the present too (abused in the name of religion) all because some mullah wants to make a quick buck pimping them out, and they should be concerned about the past? Is this their future? This is justice? This is Islam? The mullahs are no better for preying on the vulnerable - Nay, worse even than the original perpetrators.

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I am not sure what is so shocking here.

Men exploit women.

Men in a position of power exploit women.

Drs. exploit women.

Priests exploit women.

Mullahs exploit women.

Etc, etc, etc.

If I am BBC, I would air this during Arbaeen for maximum interest and viewing. The question isnt why is this airing during Arbaeen but why is this happening or being allowed to happen.

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14 hours ago, Jaane Rabb said:

Perhaps your first question has confused you yourself?

Yes, I am not good at English. Let me rephrase it. I asked that do you really think that all the people in such video are true representatives of Islam just because they wear Imamah? I don't think that western media is unbiased because of their past doings. They have always tried to bring those people before Camera who try to defame religion. I ask you why not they make documentary about Ayotullah Seestani and interview? The answer is Interviewing Ayotullah will draw people near Islam which don’t serve their purpose.

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Timing is very suspicious and BBC have an anti Islamic agenda.. But the main thing is if the clerics are working within Islamic law we should support them. Not let western morals guide us.

Edited by Warilla

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how stop rumors & it's affection based on Qur'an & Narrations 

  1. sanctioning the rumor An-Nur 24 :11-19  Al-Ahzab 33:60 & 61
  2. positive interpretation An-Nur 24 :11-19
  3. silence An-Nur 24 :11&16
  4. asking document & proof : asking to bring four witness  An-Nur 24 :11-19
  5. informing leaders & inspectors and being neutral An-Nisa 4:83 Qurtabi v 5 p 291
  6. clarification & transparency An-Nisa 4:83
  7. treating rumor makers & rumor spreaders An-Nur 24 :11-19 Al-Ahzab 33:60 & 61
  8. intensifying punishment of makers & rumor spreaders An-Nur 24 :11-19 Al-Ahzab 33:60 & 61
  9. hard convincing An-Nur 24 :11-19 An-Nisa 4:83 Al-Isra 17:36
  10. sustenance Al-I-Imran 3:173
  11. negative reaction An-Nur 24 :11&16
  12. Tawakul Al-I-Imran 3:173
  13. denying An-Nur 24 :11&16
  14. having faith An-Nur 24 :11-19
  15. asking Allah blessing An-Nur 24 :11-20 An-Nisa 4:83 

Al-I-Imran 3:73 And [they say,] ‘Do not believe anyone except him who follows your religion.’

https://fa.abna24.com/news/قرآن-كريم/چگونه-از-تولید-و-گسترش-شایعات-جلوگیری-کنیم؟_758723.html

3: silence 

Imam Ali (عليه السلام)

من سمع فاحشهًْ فافشاها کان کمن اتاها و من سمع خیرا فافشاه کان کمن عمله؛

کسی که از عمل منکری باخبر شود و آن را افشا کند، چنان است که خود، آن را انجام داده است و کسی که از کار نیک و شایسته‌ای مطلع گردد و آن را افشاء نماید بسان کسی است که آن را انجام داده است. (وسایل‌الشیعه، ج 12، ص296) 

who knows about  a sinful act & exposes it is like as himself did it & who knows about a good deed & exposes it is like as it he did it by himself  

Wasai'l Shia v 12 p 296

: لا تَرُدَّ عَلَى النّاسِ كُلَّما حَدَّثُوكَ فَكَفى بِذلِكَ حُمْقا؛ هر چه را به تو گفتند، به مردم مگو و بر مگردان، كه همين در نادانى و حماقت، كافى است!(غررالحكم، ج۶، ص۲۸۱)

everything that  said to you ,don't repeat it between people & don't reflect it , that is enough for ignorance & stupidity ! (Qurar Al hukam , v 6 ,  p 281)

Hadith n. 382

382. Amir al-mu'minin, peace be upon him, said: Do not say what you do not know; rather do not say all that you know, because Allah has laid down some obligations for all your limbs by means of which He will put forth arguments against you on the Day of Judgment.

382. وقال عليه السلام : لاَ تَقُلْ مَا لاَ تَعْلَمُ، بَلْ لاَ تَقُلْ كُلَّ مَا تَعْلَمُ، فَإِنَّ اللهَ سبحانه قد فَرَضَ عَلَى جَوَارِحِكَ كُلِّهَا فَرَائِضَ يَحْتَجُّ بِهَا عَلَيْكَ يَوْمَ الْقِيَامَةِ.

https://www.al-Islam.org/nahjul-balagha-part-2-letters-and-sayings/selections-sayings-and-preaching-amir-al-muminin-Ali#hadith-n-382

Therefore, leave out what you do not understand, because wicked people will be conveying to you vicious things; and that is an end to the matter.

https://www.al-Islam.org/nahjul-balagha-part-2-letters-and-sayings/letter-78-Abu-musa-al-ashari

Do not pursue that of which you have no knowledge. Indeed hearing, eyesight, and the heart—all of these are accountable. (36)

http://tanzil.net/#trans/en.qarai/17:36

https://fa.abna24.com/news/قرآن-كريم/چگونه-از-تولید-و-گسترش-شایعات-جلوگیری-کنیم؟_758723.html

Edited by Ashvazdanghe

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Guest Moalfas

Salams All,

I have just returned from watching the screening of the said documentary at the Frontline club in Paddington, London. It was a sold out event. 

In a nutshell, the BBC have shed light onto a very serious problem of using religion, specifically temporary -Mut'a- marriage for both predatory/perverted and monetary gain.

They have secretly filmed several individuals which they refer to as 'clerics' who are basically pimping out women and young girls through Mut'a marriages. Some of which even supply the women. These so called 'clerics' have small shop fronts/offices around Al Kathimiya in Baghdad and in Karbala where they conduct marriage contracts. 

One of these pimps was in a full Sheikh/white turban attire and another was in a traditional Karbalaei Khadim attire (Kasheeda)

A third pimp was not shown in religious attire but it is claimed that they are all 'clerics'. In fact, they are quacks not clerics, who are using Mut'a to pimp out vulnerable girls and make money.

One of which, identified as 'Sayed Ra'ad' conducted a Mut'ah contract for a thirteen year old child. Or so he thought as the BBC used an actor over the phone as a decoy. 

My problem with the documentary is as follows:

1. The wording of 'clerics' in the title and throughout the documentary is misleading as these pimps are no more than quacks using religion. They are nobodys - a far cry from 'religious elites' or 'clerics' as identified by the BBC.

  1. There is a massive emphasis throughout the documentary on the wording 'pleasure marriage' as opposed to the proper Jurisprudential term -temporary marriage- (زواج منقطع)   These two points and the general energy of the documentary itself suggest a pernicious and an insidious agenda which really comes as no surprise. Also, the timing of the release is no coincidence.

I must point out that any pimping activities are:

 1. Against Iraqi law as it amounts to facilitating prostitution which sometimes involves minors.

  1. Have been condemned by the office of Sayed Sistani in Iraq as they gave a written statement to the BBC when presented with their investigative report. 

Yes, the BBC should have been more objective by giving a better picture of temporary marriage. Yes, there is an agenda that they are pushing; but we as a community must admit that there is a problem. All religions have been used by twisted individuals throughout history for exploitation. That's no excuse for us to try to detract from the fact that it is happening in our communities, exploiting both the faith and the vulnerable. 

Unfortunately, some members of our community who claim to represent Shias did us a massive disservice by claiming -in front of the audience at the screening - that the documentary was staged by using a 'Sunni' alleged victim. Another member of the community claimed that he was from Karbala and that no such marriage offices were near the Shrines. Such contributions were nothing short of embarrassing. We cannot stay in denial about such serious issues and even if the issue is not widespread or as prevalent as the BBC documentary might try to imply, having even one victim of such perverts is one too many. 

To conclude, rather than confronting the BBC for doing what they do (pushing their agenda),

We ought to confront the serious issue of exploitation within our communities.

Wasalam 

Edited by Hameedeh
Extremely large fonts were reduced in size.

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On 9/30/2019 at 7:36 PM, Jaane Rabb said:

The mullahs are no better for preying on the vulnerable - Nay, worse even than the original perpetrators.

Salam this is not first time & won't be last time that BBC makes fake documentaries 

On 10/1/2019 at 11:44 AM, Warilla said:

Timing is very suspicious and BBC have an anti Islamic agenda.. But the main thing is if the clerics are working within Islamic law we should support them. Not let western morals guide us.

:brucelee:

On 10/1/2019 at 9:10 AM, Jibrael-e-Muhammadi said:

Yes, I am not good at English. Let me rephrase it. I asked that do you really think that all the people in such video are true representatives of Islam just because they wear Imamah? I don't think that western media is unbiased because of their past doings. They have always tried to bring those people before Camera who try to defame religion. I ask you why not they make documentary about Ayotullah Seestani and interview? The answer is Interviewing Ayotullah will draw people near Islam which don’t serve their purpose.

BBC previously made a fake documentary about Shaolin that even it was positive about Shaolin but debunked by some monks so  they can make fake Ayatollahs that founders of BBC from Qajar era were master of making fake Ayatollah in Iraq & Iran and even Afghanistan that they were creating fake Ayatollahs & sayeds for making Shia-Sunni war or fool people of Iran in order that Iranians don't fight for Oil nationalization & even turned some naive Iranians as enemies of  Oil nationalization in Iran because a british fake Sayed announced that oil is Najis (Haram)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nationalization_of_the_Iranian_oil_industry

https://www.mostaghelonline.com/بخش-سیاسی-7/8304-دو-جاسوس-مهم-انگلیس-در-ایران-را-بشناسید-مستر-جیکاک-با-سحر-ادعای-اجتهاد-کرد-نفت-را-نجس-اعلام-نمود

https://fa.wikipedia.org/wiki/مستر_جیکاک

یت‌الله سید جیکاک با معجزه‌ها و کرامات فراوان و تشخیص حرامزاده‌ها

 

A popular YouTuber who spent three years training with the monks at the Shaolin Temple has debunked several inaccuracies in a BBC documentary that has gone viral.

The BBC travelled to the Shaolin Temple in China for episode one of its new Sacred Wonders series. It also uploaded an eight-and-a-half minute clip to YouTube titled “The extraordinary final test to become a Shaolin Master” focusing on a Buddhist monk named Yandian.

https://www.scmp.com/sport/martial-arts/kung-fu/article/3024212/real-shaolin-disciple-debunks-inaccuracies-bbcs-shaolin

On 10/1/2019 at 1:44 AM, ShiaMan14 said:

I am not sure what is so shocking here.

Men exploit women.

Men in a position of power exploit women.

Drs. exploit women.

Priests exploit women.

Mullahs exploit women.

Etc, etc, etc.

If I am BBC, I would air this during Arbaeen for maximum interest and viewing. The question isnt why is this airing during Arbaeen but why is this happening or being allowed to happen.

 

Controversial head of Shaolin Temple on 'concerns'

China's ancient Shaolin Temple, famous for its Kung Fu monks, is big business these days and Grandmaster Shi Yongxin has masterminded its modernisation.

But he has also been criticised for commercialising the temple and in an interview with Raymond Li, Editor of BBC Chinese, he was asked about the "rumours" surrounding him.

https://www.bbc.com/news/av/world-Asia-29569765/controversial-head-of-shaolin-temple-on-concerns

On 9/30/2019 at 11:27 PM, realizm said:

:salam:

BBC made documentaries about ISIS sex jihad. Fair enough they tackled the Shia counterpart too.

BUT indeed, why now, why there, etc.

Of course it is all planned.

Who cares, we are neither on the BBC's side nor on those crooked clerics'. 

Real Shaolin Disciple Reacts to BBC Shaolin Master Documentary

:brucelee:

In the book, a British spy named Hempher, working in the early 1700s, tells of disguising himself as a Muslim and infiltrating the Ottoman Empire with the goal of weakening it to destroy Islam once and for all. He tells his readers: "when the unity of Muslims is broken and the common sympathy among them is impaired, their forces will be dissolved and thus we shall easily destroy them... We, the English people, have to make mischief and arouse schism in all our colonies in order that we may live in welfare and luxury."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Memoirs_of_Mr._Hempher,_The_British_Spy_to_the_Middle_East

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/War_against_Islam_conspiracy_theory

7 hours ago, Guest Moalfas said:

To conclude, rather than confronting the BBC for doing what they do (pushing their agenda),

We ought to confront the serious issue of exploitation within our communities.

in conclusion at the end more Sunnis & even some group of Shia will insult to our Marjas like as grand Ayatollah Sistani & Imam Khomeinei based on fake so called BBC documentary that all of their accusation against Shias & Marjas finally gathered in a fake documentary with  good quality instead of low quality products of Anti Shia channels . 

Imam Khomeini (رضي الله عنه)

[Europeans] have known the power of Islam themselves for it once ruled part of Europe, and they know that true Islam is opposed to their activities. (...) From the very outset, therefore, they have sought to remove this obstacle from their path by disparaging Islam (...). They have resorted to malicious propaganda (...).[21] The agents of imperialism are busy in every corner of the Islamic world drawing our youth away from us with their evil propaganda.[22] They are destroying Islam! Agents – both foreigners sent by the imperialists and natives employed by them – have spread out into every village and region of Iran and are leading our children and young people astray.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/War_against_Islam_conspiracy_theory

Edited by Ashvazdanghe

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Ashvazdanghe   beating around the bush by claiming the BBC faked the documentary about the exploitation that's happening is silly and immature at best. You can bury your head in the sand and cry out imperialism but the fact remains that these disgusting perverts are around and are exploiting both the faith and the vulnerable. I made clear my view that there is an agenda being pushed by the BBC. However, that does not negate the fact that we have a problem and It's about time we start confronting it. 

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14 minutes ago, Moalfas said:

that does not negate the fact that we have a problem and It's about time we start confronting it

it's problem of our society but it doesn't relate to our religion & scholars but BBC agenda is that show that problem is from religion & scholars by it's double standards that when ISIS soldiers were doing "Jihad of Nikah" by approve of wahabis scholars the BBC & rest of MSM were dumb & deaf until some media like as press TV & free reporters make it viral but BBC remained silent about it until fall of ISIS that after that for a limited time mentioned it with lowest attention.

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Ashvazdanghe   I'm sorry I don't find the exploitation of vulnerable women a laughing matter. Especially not when faith is being used as a cover so frankly, I find the 'Haha' emoji disrespectful and highly insensitive. 

There's no point in trying to detract attention from the fact that we have this problem and faith is being used and abused to for the purpose of usi g and abusing women. So it is related. This is a fact so rather than trying to point fingers at the BBC and their agendas, we should tackle this problem of using Mut'a marriage this way. 

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4 hours ago, Guest guest said:

For those who won't be able to watch the documentary, this article was written by the undercover reporter of BBC Arabic. She probably summarized the documentary in this article.

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Guest Bham

I think it is a documentary about mutah but the corrupt bbc are trying to frame it as abuse. These women are women are having sex within a marriage contract. 

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BBC World just finished running this report. Two clerics in Karbala were confronted and they "claimed to be followers of Ayatollah Sistani". Sistani was contacted and he condemned this mutah-for-sex activities. The two clerics (if they actually are?) advertised mutah contracts (which were shown in the report) from limited to fondling to include "anal and whatever else desired".

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On 9/30/2019 at 2:01 PM, King said:

Haven't watched the documentary but I would bet my life sexual exploitation from clerics in power takes place.  For anyone to assume otherwise is to be completely ignorant of world history.  Furthermore, it isn't that hard to find ways to justify sexual exploitation within Islamic law, especially when it comes to sex slaves.

You're mixing two different issues - with entirely different social contexts - in your pessimism towards your fellow Shias whilst giving all the benefit of the doubt to renowned opportunists. I saw a preview of the documentary and the office of Sistani was quoted as condemning the act within the purview of Islamic law, so you can rest assured nothing was justified by the senior authorities. 

Shias always throwing themselves down the curb then wondering why they're so useless in dealing with the scrutiny of outsiders. 

 

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On 10/3/2019 at 11:23 PM, Jahangiram said:

You're mixing two different issues - with entirely different social contexts - in your pessimism towards your fellow Shias whilst giving all the benefit of the doubt to renowned opportunists. I saw a preview of the documentary and the office of Sistani was quoted as condemning the act within the purview of Islamic law, so you can rest assured nothing was justified by the senior authorities. 

Shias always throwing themselves down the curb then wondering why they're so useless in dealing with the scrutiny of outsiders. 

I don't care for the documentary.  I know how power works.  It doesn't take much to add these things up.  I would be utterly shocked if there wasn't sexual exploitation by clerics in power in one form or another.  They are human after all.

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On 10/3/2019 at 1:36 PM, Moalfas said:

Ashvazdanghe   I'm sorry I don't find the exploitation of vulnerable women a laughing matter. Especially not when faith is being used as a cover so frankly, I find the 'Haha' emoji disrespectful and highly insensitive. 

There's no point in trying to detract attention from the fact that we have this problem and faith is being used and abused to for the purpose of usi g and abusing women. So it is related. This is a fact so rather than trying to point fingers at the BBC and their agendas, we should tackle this problem of using Mut'a marriage this way. 

Salam BBC propaganda is same as propaganda of wahabists that used by second caliph under influence of ex rabbis the Ka'ab Al Ahbar also they want to show Shia clerics same as Vatican problem hat suffers from problem of prostitution specially in America & England that seems BBC again find a bait to make a false victim in it's war against Shia Islam , anyway for 1400 every time that they attacked Shia Islam with a great force like this time after a short term suffer for us that will lead to purging our beliefs from many superstitions at long term it will lead to a great win for us although they create countless fake victims & fake clerics because wahabists & rest of anti Shia channels are accusing us for spreading Shia Islam between Sunnis with Muta Marriage that at the end BBC propaganda makes it real at large scale although we don't pay them  to advertise it for us but in long term they will serve us without receiving funds from us.

Edited by Ashvazdanghe

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Guest 313

Is there a link I could have to watch, I live in the US and can’t access the video. Thank you in advance 

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On 10/1/2019 at 5:57 AM, realizm said:

:salam:

BBC made documentaries about ISIS sex jihad. Fair enough they tackled the Shia counterpart too.

BUT indeed, why now, why there, etc.

Of course it is all planned.

Who cares, we are neither on the BBC's side nor on those crooked clerics'. 

Some of these "crooked" clerics aren't crooked at all in that they only repeated what their superiors - mainstream Shi'a jurists - have said.

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15 hours ago, Sumerian said:

Some of these "crooked" clerics aren't crooked at all in that they only repeated what their superiors - mainstream Shi'a jurists - have said.

Well, I doubt jurists agree with performing marriage without written acts so the girl does not come «asking for her rights»'

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