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Ruqaya101

Polygamous marriages

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Statistically, there are more women than men. So what do we do with the unmarried women? We tell them that they have to live alone because a man should only marry one? That’s worrisome because wherever you see a lack of men or women you see the rise of homosexuality. (Jail for example)

So how do you justify women not turning to homosexuality since they can’t find someone to marry them, care about them or love them? You tell them “Oh be strong don’t go against Allah”? There aren’t many people who can be celibate. And even a worse case would be another woman attempting to sabotage a marriage to have the man.

Most people who are against polygamy don’t realise the issue isn’t as simple as “I’m for you and you're for me only”.

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Just now, Ibn Al-Shahid said:

Statistically, there are more women than men. So what do we do with the unmarried women? We tell them that they have to live alone because a man should only marry one? That’s worrisome because wherever you see a lack of men or women you see the rise of homosexuality. (Jail for example)

So how do you justify women not turning to homosexuality since they can’t find someone to marry them, care about them or love them? You tell them “Oh be strong don’t go against Allah”? There aren’t many people who can be celibate. And even a worse case would be another woman attempting to sabotage a marriage to have the man.

Most people who are against polygamy don’t realise the issue isn’t as simple as “I’m for you and you're for me only”.

@Sumerian 

what do you think about this??

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1 hour ago, habib e najjaar said:

When precisely? While married to his first wife? Imam Ali (عليه السلام) too? I like this selective memory/logic tactic. Turns up in court a lot and gives us all a good laugh :grin:

You don't have to get several wives all at once.

 

some say that the Prophet didn't have any other wife together with Khadija (عليه السلام), same with Imam Ali with Fatima Zahra (عليه السلام). Others say that they did. There are many topics on that already.

Btw sticking to 1 wife doesn't mean you love her. Getting a 2nd, 3rd or 4th wife doesn't mean you love the previous less.

I have heard this concept being used many times, "but the Prophet loved his wife so much so he didn't marry any other". Nonsense ideology.

The Prophet is greater than what you think of him and his "emotions" and so is Imam Ali (عليه السلام).

There could be many reasons why did they what they did, if they really had only 1 wife during their early marriage.

36 minutes ago, Lilly14 said:

I already know the difference between those two LOL. You're not understanding me. All I am saying is bigamy is illegal in the US. Which means you can only legally marry one person at a time, and it is illegal to marry someone else unofficially while still legally married to the first person. Unofficial means like for example a nikah contract without also legally getting married. If someone reports you get caught you will face legal consequences, maybe even jail. So my statement is for a man who legally married his first wife, and here in the US, it would be a feat to find someone who would agree to be the first wife without the the legal financial protections that come with legal marriage, if he turns out to be a bad person and divorce needs to happen. But I guess maybe if he's extremely rich he can give property in her name or provide for her kids from a previous marriage in place of the legal marriage. Who knows? 

Legally yes, but you are not a legal person. You are a natural person. Check my topic "you are a slave and have always been one".

Edited by AkhiraisReal

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6 hours ago, AkhiraisReal said:

Brother with respect, go ask your grandfather. ask him how men where back in the days compared to today.

Also ask how women where compared to today.

Men were beating women back in the day, should we go back to doing that? Your logic is no different than those who followed their father’s religion simply because it was their father’s religion. There is no thing as an “Archetypal man” because people are different. Not all men are warriors, some are doctors. 

I agree with uncle Hassan, images and ideas are just that.

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3 minutes ago, Ibn Al-Shahid said:

Men were beating women back in the day, should we go back to doing that? Your logic is no different than those who followed their father’s religion simply because it was their father’s religion. There is no thing as an “Archetypal man” because people are different. Not all men are warriors, some are doctors. 

I agree with uncle Hassan, images and ideas are just that.

Men where men back in the days. And women where women back in the days.

This has nothing to do with beating. Beating your wife is haram, and Allah will punish whoever does that. May Allah save us from going that low.

Edited by AkhiraisReal

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2 minutes ago, Ibn Al-Shahid said:

I agree with uncle Hassan, images and ideas are just that.

Thanks. l have reached my reactionary limit for the day.  :grin:

You also wrote:

3 minutes ago, Ibn Al-Shahid said:

Men were beating women back in the day,

l never approved of doing this.

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That's true, completely agree. But the Prophets were sent down to guide us and a man has to at least try to follow them. There is a tradition that on the day of judgement a man who was very beautiful in this world would be questioned why he committed sexual sins. He would give the excuse that as he was very handsome, women felt attracted to him and seduced him till the point that he had to sin. Allah would then show him the example of Yousaf (عليه السلام) who was the most handsome man and was seduced, yet he remained absolutely chaste and ran away from sin. 

This means man has to take lessons from the Prophets lives. I would say the lesson from Isa (as)'s lives is not to seek deliberate celibacy, but the aim would be to remain chaste no matter how long it may take to get married. 

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11 minutes ago, Ibn Al-Shahid said:

You cannot compare a Prophet, who knows Allah سبحانه وتعالى to a man whose faith could easily be shaken. A man slips, Prophets do not.

The above is a reply to this

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32 minutes ago, Ibn Al-Shahid said:

Statistically, there are more women than men. So what do we do with the unmarried women? We tell them that they have to live alone because a man should only marry one? That’s worrisome because wherever you see a lack of men or women you see the rise of homosexuality. (Jail for example)

So how do you justify women not turning to homosexuality since they can’t find someone to marry them, care about them or love them? You tell them “Oh be strong don’t go against Allah”? There aren’t many people who can be celibate. And even a worse case would be another woman attempting to sabotage a marriage to have the man.

Most people who are against polygamy don’t realise the issue isn’t as simple as “I’m for you and you're for me only”.

This doesn't explain the rise of homosexuality (whether gay or lesbians) who have never been to prison. Lots of lesbians say they were abused by men, some even raped by men as a child, which probably caused them to abhore men. Lots of women have been abused or raped by men as children, but never turn to homosexuality. My point is, at least in this time period and cross culturally, that there isn't just one reason people turn to homosexuality, and those reasons don't always produce the result of homosexuality. 

Edited by Lilly14

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In all seriousness, it's better to be safe than sorry....

Quote

The Holy Prophet said

A man who has two wives and treats them not in a just manner, will arrive at the Resurrection in half (of his body).

Nahj al Fasahah; Tradition No. 101; Page No. 22

 

Edited by Ali~J

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20 minutes ago, AkhiraisReal said:

Men where men back in the days. And women where women back in the days.

This has nothing to do with beating. Beating your wife is haram, and Allah will punish whoever does that. May Allah save us from going that low.

This literally makes no sense. “Men were men” but what is a man? You skipped a whole philosophical discussion.

4 minutes ago, Lilly14 said:

This doesn't explain the rise of homosexuality (whether gay or lesbians) who have never been to prison. Lots of lesbians say they were abused by men, some even raped by men as a child, which probably caused them to abhore men. Lots of women have been abused or raped by men as children, but never turn to homosexuality. My point is, at least in this time period and cross culturally, that there isn't just one reason people turn to homosexuality, and those reasons don't always produce the result of homosexuality. 

That could be a reason, but I maintain: Prison. And why I maintain prison because of having no other choice. Those who have been abused by men can get psychological help and continue heterosexuality, there is a way out of this situation. But a lack of men will result in homosexuality because there is no way around it.

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15 hours ago, Ruqaya101 said:

Al Sallamu 3alaikum wara7matullahi wa barakaatuhu,

To the sisters, I know that polygamy is extremely a taboo to you, and I know that probably your one condition before marriage to them is that they'll remain "loyal" to you and you only. I can understand that mentality and thought process, but I think its not necessarily right to be so extreme about it. If the man is a good man, who is saali7 (fair and just), and treats you with respect and honour, and has a fair reason to marry another, then why not??

I always think that if God forbid, I couldn't conceive children, I will go and look for a wife for him, because theres no way I can handle that guilt on my shoulders that I am restricting my husband of having kids that will carry his name. That for me is a no brainer. Of course, this is something that we would discuss as a pair. 

1- Its halal.

2- As long as his reason is fair, you shouldn't have to say no.

3- Also, I would like to know/ to understand, why exactly would you refuse your husband of his right to marry another, (if that is what he wished). Lets be hypothetical and propose that the husband was good in his duties, responsible and treats you right. If he has a very good reason such as wanting kids, if thats the case, then why say no?

To the brothers, Yes, I am aware most of you wouldn't marry a second wife. This is hypothetical to the men that do. So, just ignore if you will.

 

At last, there is someone to advocate our right to have four wives. :clap:

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The strongest adversary of four marriages in my home is my own mom. I ask her often to let me break the family record of my ancestors and have four wives one of my ancestor had three and one had two wives but she refuses. 

I think you can convince my mom sister @Ruqaya101

:grin:

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49 minutes ago, Ibn Al-Shahid said:

This literally makes no sense. “Men were men” but what is a man? You skipped a whole philosophical discussion.

That could be a reason, but I maintain: Prison. And why I maintain prison because of having no other choice. Those who have been abused by men can get psychological help and continue heterosexuality, there is a way out of this situation. But a lack of men will result in homosexuality because there is no way around it.

I can accept that in a confined space like prison where prisoners are often raped by others of their own gender. But thinking more broadly, most male rapists in society are serial rapists, as in a rapist will most likely rape several women, rather than individual rapists raping individual women once, which tells you that even a lack of acess to women isn't always the problem. Of course we are all meant to have self control on our urges, which is why rape is Haram. 

Edited by Lilly14

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55 minutes ago, Lilly14 said:

I can accept that in a confined space like prison where prisoners are often raped by others of their own gender. But thinking more broadly, most male rapists in society are serial rapists, as in a rapist will most likely rape several women, rather than individual rapists raping individual women once, which tells you that even a lack of acess to women isn't always the problem. Of course we are all meant to have self control on our urges, which is why rape is Haram. 

But the fact that you are willing to rape a man because there are no women around is still homosexuality. If it was not prison and people had to respect the law, what would make you think they wouldn’t court each other instead of rape? You also see it in animals. If there is no female around animals turn to homosexuality. It is also similar to incest in the country side if a family is secluded.

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15 hours ago, AkhiraisReal said:

Because this is the system of shaytan, it teaches women to go against Qur'an and Ahlul Bayt. It teaches women that career is more important than husband and kids. I think polygyny is important, and there are very good reasons why it's permissible. 

 

Please tell me why should a man want to have more than 1 wife?

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4 hours ago, Ibn Al-Shahid said:

But the fact that you are willing to rape a man because there are no women around is still homosexuality. If it was not prison and people had to respect the law, what would make you think they wouldn’t court each other instead of rape? You also see it in animals. If there is no female around animals turn to homosexuality. It is also similar to incest in the country side if a family is secluded.

That may be the case for some. But I don't doubt that at least some of the homosexual rapists in prison have raped others, regardless of gender, before going to jail, considering that rape is such a violent crime (and prison has many violent criminals) and that rape usually isn't a one time crime. 

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7 hours ago, Ibn Al-Shahid said:

Statistically, there are more women than men.

I don't think this is true among all ages. Slightly more males than females are born, but women live longer. I guess that means a few men (maybe up to 5%) ought to take elderly (over 70 years) second wives. And if it were about imbalanced gender population, there's no way to justify four wives for anyone.

I have no argument against consentual polygamy, but let's not go spreading half-truths.

 

7 hours ago, AkhiraisReal said:

Btw sticking to 1 wife doesn't mean you love her. Getting a 2nd, 3rd or 4th wife doesn't mean you love the previous less.

I actually agree with this.

Edited by notme

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17 hours ago, AkhiraisReal said:

Because this is the system of shaytan, it teaches women to go against Qur'an and Ahlul Bayt. It teaches women that career is more important than husband and kids. I think polygyny is important, and there are very good reasons why it's permissible. 

 

Whose to say that women in their careers all prioritize their careers over family. Lots of them aren't that way.

And if abusive or deadbeat husbands were completely nonexistent, and husbands all had a secure job with enough income where an entire family could live a very comfortably and had enough savings for emergencies, I'd imagine that not all, but many women who work would have never feel the need to go after a career and would stay home to focus on their families. 

You're also forgetting that many husbands these days WANT their wives to have a career so they have a better standard of living. Or else girls who are highly educated and make a lot of money from their careers wouldnt be sought after.

Edited by Lilly14

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14 hours ago, Ibn Al-Shahid said:

This literally makes no sense. “Men were men” but what is a man? You skipped a whole philosophical discussion.

The Imams should be our examples to follow.

10 hours ago, shadow_of_light said:

Please tell me why should a man want to have more than 1 wife?

To prepare for our Imam and hereafter, to seek nearness to Allah.

there can be many other reasons. That is just one that I consider important.

Edited by AkhiraisReal

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44 minutes ago, AkhiraisReal said:

To prepare for our Imam and hereafter, to seek nearness to Allah.

LOL and a man needs multiple women to please him for him to prepare for the Imam and seek nearness to Allah? 

You have a very shallow and materialistic understanding of faith and spirituality. 

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27 minutes ago, 2Timeless said:

LOL and a man needs multiple women to please him for him to prepare for the Imam and seek nearness to Allah? 

You have a very shallow and materialistic understanding of faith and spirituality. 

You think a man wants to be married to several women? do you think a man wants to take the responsibility it comes with? You think polygyny is only to satisfy ones urges? 1 good moomin wife is enough for that.

the ones that want to prepare and serve Imam and seek nearness to Allah and prepare for hereafter will understand.

Edited by AkhiraisReal

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17 minutes ago, AkhiraisReal said:

good moomin wife is enough for that.

Okay then. This is the only possible conclusion: you believe that women are so precious and dear to Allah that they are the ones who will help men elevate their status in the eyes of Allah. Men, supposedly fall victims to the "whispers of shaytan" and turn into mere tools, therefore they need multiple women each in order to be able to make up for all their faults and sin. :respect: I think we finally agree brother.

Edited by 2Timeless

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31 minutes ago, 2Timeless said:

Okay then. This is the only possible conclusion: you believe that women are so precious and dear to Allah that they are the ones who will help men elevate their status in the eyes of Allah. Men, supposedly fall victims to the "whispers of shaytan" and turn into mere tools, therefore they need multiple women each in order to be able to make up for all their faults and sin. :respect: I think we finally agree brother.

Good moomin wives will elevate a man and their children to serve and prepare for Imam and for the hereafter.

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10 hours ago, Lilly14 said:

Whose to say that women in their careers all prioritize their careers over family. Lots of them aren't that way.

And if abusive or deadbeat husbands were completely nonexistent, and husbands all had a secure job with enough income where an entire family could live a very comfortably and had enough savings for emergencies, I'd imagine that not all, but many women who work would have never feel the need to go after a career and would stay home to focus on their families. 

You're also forgetting that many husbands these days WANT their wives to have a career so they have a better standard of living. Or else girls who are highly educated and make a lot of money from their careers wouldnt be sought after.

Then whatever choice you make on your future, do it with the intention of preparing and serving the Imam, have that as priority. To prepare yourselves and your family.

Don't do it for the money or for the career or something else. Do it because you love Imam and you want to prepare and serve him.

Edited by AkhiraisReal

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On 10/3/2019 at 1:05 AM, Liggel said:

Prophet Isa(عليه السلام) is an example where we see a life-long, absolute and complete control of the natural urges even when no wife was available.

Do you know what lifelong is in case of Prophet Jesus? He died in his early 30s. 

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1 hour ago, 7ssein said:

Nabi Isa didn't die

Yep  thank you for the correction. He left this world in the early 30s.

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2 hours ago, Marbles said:

But he still departed in his early 30s.

 

1 hour ago, starlight said:

Yep  thank you for the correction. He left this world in the early 30s.

Now to keep the point valid, I have a question:

Does he still have to control urges or is he married now or does he have no urges? 

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24 minutes ago, 7ssein said:

 

Now to keep the point valid, I have a question:

Does he still have to control urges or is he married now or does he have no urges? 

 Allah knows. 

Edited by starlight

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