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In the Name of God بسم الله

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We are growing stronger each Arbaeen. No matter our differences, Shias are united when it comes to Arbaeen. The timing of the protest cannot be a mere coincidence, an attempt to discourage people who visit Karbala from around the world. I doubt they'll succeed. 

Besides, I don't believe everyone protesting is bribed or something. They are genuinely distressed and going through a difficult phase. It's few mischief makers who have managed to spark a flame. 

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I hear people say the Shia are being manipulated into protesting. Then in the end the ba3this will rise from the the rubble and rule Iraq again. Or that this is all because the Sunnis can't stand not being in power.

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These reports are similar

Sidney Morning Herald; 2106hrsSidneyTime

https://www.smh.com.au/world/middle-east/facing-a-shortage-of-everything-iraqis-protest-corruption-20191001-p52xae.html 

And: country in media blackout -->telephone rumor mill

https://www.smh.com.au/world/middle-east/Iraq-is-under-curfew-internet-blackout-as-government-tries-to-curb-protests-20191004-52xju.html 

An unexpected (as n 'so soon') from Tass:

"Situation in lraq getting back to normal . . ."   https://tass.com/world/1081283 

For some other info and an overview, https://chicagotribune.com/sns-bc-ml-ap-explains-Iraq-protests-20191003-story.html   or Search "AP explains lraq protests"   There is a 'wait and see' as to what happens during jummah and what the here-to-silent militia leaders think. The US has 5,000 troops in lraq.

 

 

Edited by hasanhh

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Old tactic by fitna mongers: Using justified demands for another goals. But,  و مکر السیئ ولا یحیق المکر السیئ الا باهله

And plotting of evil, but evil plot doesn't encompass expect it's own people

#حب_الحسین_یجمعنا

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1100EDT/NYC Friday,04Oct19

Sistani urges calm.

Police open fire on these "leaderless demonstrations" again today.

Reported deaths: 18 in Nasiriya; 16 in Baghdad;  44 'total' this morning.

Kuwait, Bahrain and Qatar issue travel warnings.

https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2019/10/Iraq-protests-latest-updates-191004085506824.html 

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In other news, daesh closed down the road between Baghdad and Samarra, they were fought off, but look how close they are and how quick they are to take advantage of the unrest.

 

Edited by Soldiers and Saffron

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Not surprising if this came out to be true, taking the chaos as an opportunity to take out a man with great influence would be a realistic scenario. Seyyed Sistani made some big enemies with his fatwa that created the Hashd and subsequently made daesh advance come to a stop.

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The goons who shoot at the protesters are either inept at their job so they are quick to use excessive force or they are being given orders to use such force. Based on the sheer size of the death and casualty toll, it is clear this is a systematic effort to violently crackdown on the protesters.

How funny people pin the blame on them when they are the ones who live on trillions of dollars worth of oil wealth but don't have basic services like water and electricity. How is it that people, especially youth, can't find work at all?

The blame for all of this isn't on a "foreign power" or "hidden hands", the blame goes to the corrupt politicians who have sold out their nation's wealth for their own benefit or the benefit of others.

I agree with what the Sayyed said: "Lawmakers hold the biggest responsibility for what is happening."

Edited by Sumerian

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5 minutes ago, Sumerian said:

The goons who shoot at the protesters are either inept at their job so they are quick to use excessive force or they are being given orders to use such force. Based on the sheer size of the death and casualty toll, it is clear this is a systematic effort to violently crackdown on the protesters.

How funny people pin the blame on them when they are the ones who live on trillions of dollars worth of oil wealth but don't have basic services like water and electricity. How is it that people, especially youth, can't find work at all?

The blame for all of this isn't on a "foreign power" or "hidden hands", the blame goes to the corrupt politicians who have sold out their nation's wealth for their own benefit or the benefit of others.

I agree with what the Sayyed said: "Lawmakers hold the biggest responsibility for what is happening."

 

I don’t think anyone would argue that you can single out any factor as the sole reason to the events that are unfolding, rather I think we can all agree that its a mix of all of the above.

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31 minutes ago, Soldiers and Saffron said:

 

I don’t think anyone would argue that you can single out any factor as the sole reason to the events that are unfolding, rather I think we can all agree that its a mix of all of the above.

Corruption and selling out is the biggest factor.

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Grand Ayatollah Sistani under threat:

https://www.presstv.com/Detail/2019/10/04/607847/Iraq-terror-cell-plotting-to-assassinate-top-Shia-cleric-amid-unrest-Report 

 

Sadr: Calls on gov't to resign

https://www.xinhuanet.com/english/2019-10/05/c_138448810.htm 

Sadr: in lran  https://www.al-monitor.com/pulse/originals/2019/09/Iran-Iraq-sadr-hakim-Sistani-Khamenei.html 

Editorial (May 2019) accusatory towards the US: https://www.tehrantimes.com/news/435334/U-S-hostile-military-activities-in-Iraq 

l checked several news agencies, but no other reporting on 'attack' directed at Sistani.

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Ayatollah Sistani urges security forces, protesters to avoid violence

https://en.abna24.com/news//ayatollah-Sistani-urges-security-forces-protesters-to-avoid-violence_980198.html

October 4, 2019 - 5:42 PM News Code : 980198 Source : Press TVLink: 

Ayatollah Sistani urges security forces, protesters to avoid violence

 

Grand Ayatollah Ali al-Sistani, the top Shia cleric of Iraq, has urged security forces and protesters to avoid violence, expressing sorrow over some sporadic unrest that has led to several casualties.

Ahlul Bayt News Agency (ABNA):

“It is sorrowful there have been so many deaths, casualties and destruction” from clashes between anti-government protesters and security forces in recent days, Ayatollah Sistani said in a letter Friday.

In the letter read out by his representative Ahmed al-Safi during a sermon in the holy city of Karbala, the top cleric urged all parties to avoid violence.

He also criticized officials and political sides for failing to answer the demands of the people to fight corruption, urging them to heed the demands of the protesters “before it's too late”.

“Lawmakers hold the biggest responsibility for what is happening,” Ayatollah Sistani was quoted as saying.

Iraqi Prime Minister Adil Abdul-Mahdi on Thursday expressed regret that the ongoing protests have become violent, saying he is ready to meet with representatives of the protesters to discuss their demands.

Speaking on Thursday night, the Iraqi prime minister said certain elements have been able to derail the protests from their peaceful path.

He said there was no "magic solution" to issues such as graft, unemployment and corruption but he would begin passing a law for basic income to be meted out to poor families.

During the televised address, Abdul-Mahdi also asked the parliament, where his coalition is in majority, to give him support so that he can reshuffle his cabinet to address people's demands.

The unrest comes as millions of pilgrims are preparing to travel to the Iraqi holy cities of Najaf and Karbala to attend Arba'een marking the fortieth day after the martyrdom of their third Imam, Hussein ibn Ali (عليه السلام).

On Friday, a senior Iranian cleric said the United States and Israel are stoking unrest in Iraq to disrupt the Arba'een pilgrimage.

"The enemy is now determined against the Islamic nation. America and Zionism ... are targeting Arba'een and Iraq, and causing trouble because it is hard for them to accept the presence of millions (of pilgrims) in Karbala," Ayatollah Mohammed Emami-Kashani said in a sermon in Tehran.

Iran’s Foreign Ministry on Thursday urged all pilgrims from the country to postpone their visit to Iraq until calm is restored.

“Stressing the importance of the great march of Arba’een and the necessity of holding this magnificent congregation, the Foreign Ministry calls on the Iranian faithful ... to postpone their visit to Iraq until calm is restored to the country, and to pay close attention to the warnings of political and security officials,” the statement said.

Iran, it said, is confident the Iraqi government and nation will work with all groups, parties and personalities, especially the top clerics and other religious authorities and political leaders to calm the current tense situation.

“The Ministry of Foreign Affairs is confident that the Iraqi nation and government will not allow the continuation of certain moves that are to the detriment of the Iraqi people and will not let the foreigners take advantage of the situation,” the statement added.

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1 hour ago, Ruqaya101 said:

There’s been news and evidence apparently that Iran troops are also ones engaging in attack.

abunch of iraqis wrestled down some of the army troopers and one of them dropped their passport visa, an irani man.

but who knows... could all be planned.

it's a common problem during Ziarat that Iranians lose their passport due to rubbing in large crowd specialty in shrines visiting in large crowds that some smugglers sell lost passports to some people so it's not strange that they find some Iranian passports during this planned protest.

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24 minutes ago, Ashvazdanghe said:

it's a common problem during Ziarat that Iranians lose their passport due to rubbing in large crowd specialty in shrines visiting in large crowds that some smugglers sell lost passports to some people so it's not strange that they find some Iranian passports during this planned protest.

If it is during ziyarat then there should be few Indian and Pakistani passports as well. 

This could be real/fake/stolen passport. 

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48 minutes ago, Sirius_Bright said:

If it is during ziyarat then there should be few Indian and Pakistani passports as well. 

This could be real/fake/stolen passport. 

their rumors are just about Iran ,if they were trying spread rumors about Pakistan & India so we would see Pakistani & Indian passports too .

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Guest Basira

Decades of dictatorship kicked the oil barrels.

Corruption spilled like the oil. 

Impatience of people (Shi'a and Sunni) set the oil alight.

Anti-Shi'a mercenaries flame the fire to increase destruction and violence to weaken Iraq's geopolitical standing.

*

One look at Venezuela, Libya, Ukraine, and Syria is enough to see how protestors quickly become pawns in a greater game which leads only to more misery.

Because of decades of dictatorship, corruption is rooted in Iraq, and in many other countries. The instability and violence and destruction of the post-Saddam years has made it harder to create the necessary means to combat corruption. If anything, it has turned state corruption into anarchic corruption. This is much harder to deal with. 

Protesting is legitimate, but making Iraq even more unstable is illegitimate. It won't get rid of corruption: it will lead to more.

Eradicating corruption, whether we like it or not, is a multi-generational endeavour, and requires decades of stability and political cooperations and geopolitical security.

Destabilising the region in the name of fighting corruption is foolish because it won't solve the problem but it will bleed its resources and it will turn Iraq into the chessboard for anti-Shi'a forces to play divide and conquer, whether it is dividing Iraq's territory or dividing Iraq and Iran politically. 

Iran and Iraqis are neighbours and have a long history together and share many interests - and both are proud and seek to be independent from the US and from Saudi Arabia. But these wealthy countries are afraid of an independent Iran and Iraq that reflect the genuine political positions of their people because this would frustrate their hegemony over the region. They will go to any lengths to weaken Iran and Iraq - exploiting protests is one of the best ways, especially when the majority of the protestors are unaware of these plots.

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5 hours ago, Ruqaya101 said:

There’s been news and evidence apparently that Iran troops are also ones engaging in attack.

abunch of iraqis wrestled down some of the army troopers and one of them dropped their passport visa, an irani man.

but who knows... could all be planned.

That really sounds so absurd that its laughable.

It reminds me of when there was protests in Iran in 2009 and the protesters who were setting things on fire and vandalizing used to say the guards are arabs that theyve brought in to stop them.

I guess some people can never phantom the idea that others in their own country might not share their opinions and understanding of reality.

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I don't know with all respect, the story sounds like a Bollywood movie. They are facing the soldiers face to face and I oop- the soldier drops his Iranian passport. And in all videos or pictures we can clearly see the empty space between the soldiers and the protestors. It’s impossible that a group of men go and wrestle with some soldiers that are shooting at people do you think these soldiers that shooting at people wouldn’t shoot at the persons that are directly attacking them. This is the only article I could find. https://m.jpost.com/Middle-East/Iraqi-protesters-claim-Iranian-forces-firing-on-demonstrations-603710/amp If you find an Israeli news agency credible then I don't know anymore. 

Edited by Lebanese313

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24 minutes ago, Lebanese313 said:

I don't know with all respect, the story sounds like a Bollywood movie. They are facing the soldiers face to face and I oop- the soldier drops his Iranian passport. And in all videos or pictures we can clearly see the empty space between the soldiers and the protestors. It’s impossible that a group of men go and wrestle with some soldiers that are shooting at people do you think these soldiers that shooting at people wouldn’t shoot at the persons that are directly attacking them. This is the only article I could find. https://m.jpost.com/Middle-East/Iraqi-protesters-claim-Iranian-forces-firing-on-demonstrations-603710/amp If you find an Israeli news agency credible then I don't know anymore. 

Allahu 3a3lam. Allah knows best, really/

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Guest Basira

It is easier for people with power and money to use genuine anger to create a crisis which has as its main purpose the political dependence of the country on those who have exploited it for decades in the past and wish to exploit it for decades in the future. 

Have a look at the bigger picture behind the coordination of these protests - Washington's man in Iraq's security forces:

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.euronews.com/amp/2019/10/03/is-this-Iraqi-general-behind-Iraq-s-wave-of-protests

The aim is to divide Shi'as of Iraq and Iran along arbitrary colonial and Ottoman borders or by emphasising race and language over the shared interests of walaya and marja'iyya.

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Guest Basira

If this was just a "spontaneous" demonstration about "corruption", we wouldn't be seeing this coordinated geopolitically-charged language. Probably the reason there is violence from the Iraqi government is because there is something sinister lurking in between the innocent protestors. 

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3 hours ago, Guest Basira said:

If this was just a "spontaneous" demonstration about "corruption", we wouldn't be seeing this coordinated geopolitically-charged language. Probably the reason there is violence from the Iraqi government is because there is something sinister lurking in between the innocent protestors. 

Victim blaming rationalisations 101

Edited by Sumerian

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10 hours ago, Ruqaya101 said:

Clarify...?

What I mean is that sometimes people are so convinced that what they think is also what everyone else thinks that the thought of someone from the same situation (in this case nation) could have a different way of thinking is so distant that they think to themselves that it must be someone from outside the situation (I.e. another nationality) and that's why they don’t think like me.

But in reality of course you can have two people living in one place and think differently about the same thing, unfortunately the more fanatic (lack of rationalism) the individual becomes, the more likely that they will use violence to anyone who does not agree with them, thats the case usually.

 

If I would quote the article from jerusalem post(lol):

"There is no work, you come to protest, they fire at you. Live gunfire. They are all Iranian speaking in Farsi. You want to speak to them, they answer in Farsi. The Iraqis would not fire at you."

 

This is litteraly what people protesting used to say in Iran back in 2009. They just can’t phantom that maybe some people in the same living situation don’t see the government the same way they do. Or that some people don’t consider their actions (violent protests) as the best way to change things even if they agreed that things needs to be changed.

It reminds me of the last Ashura walk we had in stockholm some weeks ago. We past by a small tent with some people from munafiqeen e khalq (MKO) in it spreading their propaganda and the Iranian guy in the tent told another women there in Farsi while she was recording him and the people in the walk who were passing by: none of these people are from stockholm, they drive them in with busses from other cities and they are all Arab and afghani people. 

I told him as I was passing by, actually I am Iranian and I am from stockholm and the majority of these people are from stockholm too. Of course the answer from him was an insult, though I would not expect more from people like him.

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Guest Basira

The country has only just come out of a war with Da'ish and rogue Ba'th elements are still present, and there are definitely countries who funded Da'ish with their money and would like Iraq to stay chaotic. They didn't like Sistani's fatwa and the mobilization against Da'ish. Who thinks they won't coordinate protests, infiltrate protestors?

It only takes 5% of infiltrators to make a protest go violent and justify government response. Even if 95% are genuine.

Not everyone thinks these protests are the right way to achieve goals. Especially after only 1 year of being Prime Minister. It's not like Iraq can just accelerate out of decades of dictatorship and famine and war and chaos and civil war into a healthy economy in a year. That's just wishful thinking, irresponsible behaviour. Iraq needs stability and security first of all. 

 

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Reports indicate that security forces are using mortor shells against the protesters. 

And then you put question marks on the protesters. What normal government does that? 

Answer: No normal government.

Look at this video, both the protesters and the army/police are together and taking COVER from shots fired by another group of armed individuals:

This shows the possibility of hired goons.

Edited by Sumerian

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4 minutes ago, Sumerian said:

Reports indicate that security forces are using mortor shells against the protesters. 

And then you put question marks on the protesters. What normal government does that? 

There is no one who currently knows who shot the mortal shells that landed in Sadr city, please don’t spread rumors. 

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34 minutes ago, Soldiers and Saffron said:

There is no one who currently knows who shot the mortal shells that landed in Sadr city, please don’t spread rumors. 

Who else would do it? Who else has mortar shells? Either government forces or hired goons. Let me guess what you'll say, the Mossad? lol :hahaha: Please don't waste my time with your apologetics and defending this government.

Based on the footage we have seen of security forces spraying fire in a wild manner and sniper attacks, they would have no issue with this.

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