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In the Name of God بسم الله

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3 hours ago, Guest Sunshine said:

This was orchestrated by Sadr and other Iranian backed. Even the protest are corrupt in Iraq. If Iraqis was concerned about Iraq they would go in street and protest.. Not following order from Sadr.

It's not really America's job to mediate or resolve disputes between parties of other countries. Nor should we necessarily interject in the middle. If 49% of the country wanted the US out and 51% wanted the US to stay, then the US shouldn't be there.

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3 minutes ago, iCenozoic said:

It's not really America's job to mediate or resolve disputes between parties of other countries. Nor should we necessarily interject in the middle. If 49% of the country wanted the US out and 51% wanted the US to stay, then the US shouldn't be there.

I agree but this is not point im here trying to imply. Problem is that people don’t think critically. They just will follow these elites without any critical thinking at all. One protester said this

Quote

"The American forces should leave," an 18-year-old protester, Amer Saad, told the Associated Press. "I am ready to fight against the Americans if Muqtada al-Sadr asks us."

Why in the world people are still following them like this? This is not democracy. This not how country works. This means they don’t follow any law. They only follow what their leader say. This is dangerous stuff. Imagine if Qaiz Ali or other stupid leader gave them order to kill innocent people. We will never get anything done until people really start to follow law instead of just doing what ever their leader say. People declare wars like its a nothing. We can only have Independent country when these people start to think they belong to real nation instead of following authority commands. This why we are so divided with Sunnis, Shia and kurds. This why you have other part of country carving for Usa defense because they cannot trust Pro Iranians that have heavy sectarian based thinking. 

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3 French nationals mssing/abducted by gov't; 2 more killed ni Baghdad by security; 25 wounded; Sistani calls on gov't to quit 'stalling';

"10s of thousands" attend Sadr Rally

https://apnews.com/c2934966e27d5188f2419054db438aac 

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-Iraq-security-sadr/no-no-america-Iraq-protesters-demand-expulsion-of-u-s-troops-idUSKBN1ZN0RI 

 

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19 hours ago, Guest Sunshine said:

Its really not good thing. This was orchestrated by Sadr and other Pro Iranian leaders. These elites have no reason to fight against Iranian influence  or corruption and they are much bigger problem than 5000 Usa members that are solely training Iraqi army to fight against Isis. Usa barely have any influence in Iraq. Iraqis is still not thinking critically. They rather follow their elites instead of fighting against them. These same elites that orchestrated this protest is reason why Iraq is still poor and corrupt country.  Im very disappointing with Iraq.  Why don’t make million protest against corrupt government? Oh because you are basically  supporting corrupt government.. Real protest movement does not happen when leader say so.. Real protest movement comes from people frustration and oppression... Population will itself start it.. 

Not everyone who went to this protest did so following Sadr or the other elites. Some people genuinely want to kick all foreign presence out of Iraq, whether it is American or Iranian.

The protesters in the South and in Tahrir Square will continue to protest against this corrupt regime, the elites, the munafiq clerics and those who hide behind Islam in order to continue their corruption and stealing, and most importantly, the foreign/Iranian controlled militant groups and political parties.

They will continue to protest for a respectful livelihood, for jobs, for basic public services, and for true public infrastructure spending.

At the same time, we mustn't forget the American role in killing and torturing Iraqis, in invading our country, and spreading chaos. We must never accept a US presence in our country. If the argument was we needed the International Coalition to provide military and intelligence support, as well as training, in order to defeat ISIS, well ISIS has been defeated. The Iraqi military can now stand on its own two feet and counter ISIS operations alone.

Like I said brother, we must be against all foreign presence, and there are many, you have America, Iran, Turkey, Saudi and other nations in Iraq, and they all fear a potential independent Iraq with its own interests - seperate to theirs - in the Middle East.

Edited by Sumerian

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2 hours ago, Sumerian said:

Not everyone who went to this protest did so following Sadr or the other elites. Some people genuinely want to kick all foreign presence out of Iraq, whether it is American or Iranian.

The protesters in the South and in Tahrir Square will continue to protest against this corrupt regime, the elites, the munafiq clerics and those who hide behind Islam in order to continue their corruption and stealing, and most importantly, the foreign/Iranian controlled militant groups and political parties.

They will continue to protest for a respectful livelihood, for jobs, for basic public services, and for true public infrastructure spending.

At the same time, we mustn't forget the American role in killing and torturing Iraqis, in invading our country, and spreading chaos. We must never accept a US presence in our country. If the argument was we needed the International Coalition to provide military and intelligence support, as well as training, in order to defeat ISIS, well ISIS has been defeated. The Iraqi military can now stand on its own two feet and counter ISIS operations alone.

 

No this was 100% percent elite supporters march. Otherwise nobody would come to protest American presence with millions of people. They even brought people from other district with buses. This whole think does not require any kinda of protest movement. You can settle this issue in Parliament. This event was to show elite and their supporters/power against  anti government protester...  The Anti government  protester did not support this march because it came from same elite that has destroyed our country and they are much bigger danger to us than American force. When these protester protest... Same elites and their media create all kinds of propaganda to make them look bad. People are killed just by walking. Our police and army  has a lot of  psychopath people. They will kill you just for fun. If  you want evidence I can give you plenty of evidence  from recent days. 600 people have killed by the government and militants.. Absolutely no outrage.. Muhandis/soleimani killed. Suddenly the whole  world has been shattered to pieces in Iraq.  These same protester fought against Isis but they don’t get any respect because they are against the same elite that created PMU for their failure the create Iraqi army which made Isis to come in Iraq first place.

 

Quote

At the same time, we mustn't forget the American role in killing and torturing Iraqis, in invading our country, and spreading chaos. We must never accept a US presence in our country. If the argument was we needed the International Coalition to provide military and intelligence support, as well as training, in order to defeat ISIS, well ISIS has been defeated. The Iraqi military can now stand on its own two feet and counter ISIS operations alone.

As I said before if we want independent country we need make our country nationalistic and civil. Sunnis will never accept PMU until they merge with Iraqi army.  PMU has a lot of sectarian and Pro Iranians  militants which does not see Sunnis in good light. This is not going to happen soon.. maybe it will be too late for real changes. I lost all my hope for Iraq.

 

 

 

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13 hours ago, Guest Sunshine said:

I agree but this is not point im here trying to imply. Problem is that people don’t think critically. They just will follow these elites without any critical thinking at all. One protester said this

Why in the world people are still following them like this? This is not democracy. This not how country works. This means they don’t follow any law. They only follow what their leader say. This is dangerous stuff. Imagine if Qaiz Ali or other stupid leader gave them order to kill innocent people. We will never get anything done until people really start to follow law instead of just doing what ever their leader say. People declare wars like its a nothing. We can only have Independent country when these people start to think they belong to real nation instead of following authority commands. This why we are so divided with Sunnis, Shia and kurds. This why you have other part of country carving for Usa defense because they cannot trust Pro Iranians that have heavy sectarian based thinking. 

Hm yea. I don't know if this is an accurate assessment, but in my relatively brief experience with Shia, it always did seem like there was an emphasis on giving large support to individual religious leaders.

For example, a local Maulana might have 50 people who would put their life on the line for him. Soleiman who wasn't a religious leaders had an incredible turn out for his funeral. But we would never see that kind of following with a military leader of any kind in the US. Even pastors of a church aren't really followed in the quite the same way. And I'm sure Iraqis come in many shapes and sizes and grades of secularism vs tribalism. But I think there may be a cultural aspect at play.

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Guest Sunshine

Crackdown on anti-government protests enter what appears to be the final phase following Muqtada's announcement that he us no longer supportive.

Sadr supporters arent happy about this. 

 

 

 

 

It does not matter if government destroy this movement. The government and the elite are so incompetent mess that they will make all Iraqis their enemies at some point. It just matter of time.

 

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Guest Sunshine
1 hour ago, iCenozoic said:

Hm yea. I don't know if this is an accurate assessment, but in my relatively brief experience with Shia, it always did seem like there was an emphasis on giving large support to individual religious leaders.

For example, a local Maulana might have 50 people who would put their life on the line for him. Soleiman who wasn't a religious leaders had an incredible turn out for his funeral. But we would never see that kind of following with a military leader of any kind in the US. Even pastors of a church aren't really followed in the quite the same way. And I'm sure Iraqis come in many shapes and sizes and grades of secularism vs tribalism. But I think there may be a cultural aspect at play.

I could understand Sistani but not Muhandis or Soleimani. Soleimani was not angel. If Saddam was Shia and oppressing Sunnis. Soleimani would be his right hand man. Muhandis was responsible  of Kuwaiti terror attack which killed 5 innocent people.  He ran away form Iraq 2004-2005 to Iran  when Usa knew his identity .. He came back in Iraq 2012 and he was appointed as head deputy of PMU. There no check of balance... Former terrorist can became your hero in next day. 

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3 hours ago, Guest Sunshine said:

I could understand Sistani but not Muhandis or Soleimani. Soleimani was not angel. If Saddam was Shia and oppressing Sunnis. Soleimani would be his right hand man. Muhandis was responsible  of Kuwaiti terror attack which killed 5 innocent people.  He ran away form Iraq 2004-2005 to Iran  when Usa knew his identity .. He came back in Iraq 2012 and he was appointed as head deputy of PMU. There no check of balance... Former terrorist can became your hero in next day. 

Yea, looks like Shia militia had a bit of history back in the day. Seems to resemble today's events.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islamic_Jihad_Organization

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/1984_United_States_embassy_annex_bombing_in_Beirut

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/1983_United_States_embassy_bombing_in_Beirut

This is informative reading.

Edited by iCenozoic

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15 minutes ago, iCenozoic said:

Yea, looks like Shia militia had a bit of history back in the day. Seems to resemble today's events.

1]    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islamic_Jihad_Organization

2]  https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/1984_United_States_embassy_annex_bombing_in_Beirut

 3]    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/1983_United_States_embassy_bombing_in_Beirut

This is informative reading.

Comments:

1] Robin Wright was a ClA domestic mouthpiece for US domestic consumption. Robert Baer's career was in Afghanistan, not the Eastern Mediterranean.

2]& 3]  l do not remember these attacks. Sorry.

This was the beginning of "bunker diplomacy" -a term used to describe the new and re-built American Embassies.   

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2300hrsEST Sat25Jan20

Baghdad Post has two articles on killed protesters, the one not included said Police cracked heads and arrested 16 in Basra.

The better of the two as articles: https://www.thebaghdadpost.com/en/Story/45629/Three-Iraq-protesters-killed-in-clashes-as-security-forces-clear-streets 

https://www.france24.com/en/20200125-Iraq-forces-al-sadr-tahrir-square-raid-baghdad-protest-camp-kill-moqtada-al-sadr-tahrir-square-basra-saddam-Hussein   -said 4 killed

A more complete report on Sadr betraying the other protesters:  https://www.reuters.com/article/us-Iraq-protests/Iraqi-security-forces-raid-protest-camps-after-sadr-supporters-withdraw-idUSKBN1ZO0AN 

-->Similar to Reuters but with more explanation from al-Sadr (he feels betrayed? -ed.) https://apnews.com/deed88f86fb4a5efc4fb5651b6d66cdd 

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1500EST in the last hour this Sunday:

https://au.news.yahoo.com/Iraq-protesters-keep-rallies-despite-pressure-riot-police-1019307220--spt.html 

--protesters renewed, fill streets

--a "volley" of rockets hit the Green Zone (no claim of responsibility)

 

https://www.cnn.com/2020/01/26/middleeast/Iraq-protests-clashes-intl/index.html 

--over the last three days, 12 dead, 230 wounded

 

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Quote

Five katyusha rockets have crashed into a river bank near the US embassy in Iraq capital's heavily fortified Green Zone without causing any injuries, a statement from US Joint Operations Command has said.

Three out of five rockets fired on Sunday directly hit the US embassy in Baghdad, a security source told the AFP news agency, including one that slammed into a cafe at dinner time.

https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2020/01/Iraq-rockets-hit-baghdad-green-zone-anti-gov-protests-200126195616176.html

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Guest Sunshine

Nasriya are right now burning :cryhappy:. Militants attacked them.. Some people are blaming Sadr forces.

 

 

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41aed62fb076bb05d3a118d3f3c6984d_542.jpg

no , Iraq is not for cow milking

https://fa.abna24.com/news/کاریکاتور/کاریکاتور-کارت-قرمز-مردم-عراق-به-ارتش-تروریستی-آمریکا_764554.html

Iraqi protesters hang Trump, US soldiers dummies (+ Video, Photos)
January 24, 2020 - 4:39 PM News Code : 1004976 Source : ABNA24Link: 
http://abna.cc/92Zx
Ahlul Bayt News Agency (ABNA): Iraqis have rallied in Baghdad in massive numbers to call for an end to US military presence in the country following high-profile assassinations and airstrikes targeting anti-terror forces.

https://en.abna24.com/news//Iraqi-protesters-hang-Trump-us-soldier-dummies-video-photos_1004976.html

Iraqis march in 'millions' to call for expulsion of US troops

https://en.abna24.com/news//iraqis-march-in-millions-to-call-for-expulsion-of-us-troops_1004963.html

Edited by Ashvazdanghe

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4 hours ago, Guest Sunshine said:

Nasriya are right now burning :cryhappy:. Militants attacked them.. Some people are blaming Sadr forces.

 

 

Sadr said to attack these protesters after he changed his side. The Iraqis themselves are killing each other while taking outside sides. 

Edited by Abu Nur

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6 hours ago, Abu Nur said:

Sadr said to attack these protesters after he changed his side. The Iraqis themselves are killing each other while taking outside sides. 

It looks indeed that Sadr changed his political positions and now become closer to pro-Iran groups. Does that mean that protesters have no more chances to gain anything ?

Edited by Mohammadi_follower

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Guest Sunshine

:( 5 people killed yesterday.

 

Father of  martyr who was killed was Ali. He was with PMU over 4 years  fighting Isis and he was one that made living for their family. Rest in piece hero. 

 

Here is father reaction very sad video.

 

 

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Guest Sunshine
8 minutes ago, Mohammadi_follower said:

It looks indeed that Sadr changed his political positions and now become closer to pro-Iran groups. Does that mean that protesters have no more chances to gain anything ?

No at all. The last time when we got changed 50 people got killed in one day. Thats how we got rid of Abdul Mahdi.  If we want change it seems many people need to die. This how it work  in Iraq sadly. Sadr is shooting himself . These protester that he is attacking where the same people that voted him in power. He betrayed all of them. I have no idea what he is thinking. Iraq has much bigger problem than Usa forces. Even if they get rid of Usa.. We are still living in High poverty, High unemployment rate and high corruption.  Instead Sadr is putting all his energy to start conflict with Usa and Iran.

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36 minutes ago, Guest Sunshine said:

No at all. The last time when we got changed 50 people got killed in one day. Thats how we got rid of Abdul Mahdi.  If we want change it seems many people need to die. This how it work  in Iraq sadly. Sadr is shooting himself . These protester that he is attacking where the same people that voted him in power. He betrayed all of them. I have no idea what he is thinking. Iraq has much bigger problem than Usa forces. Even if they get rid of Usa.. We are still living in High poverty, High unemployment rate and high corruption.  Instead Sadr is putting all his energy to start conflict with Usa and Iran.

What do you think about protests asking us troops to leave ? Do these protesters were mainly pro-iranian groups ? Do many iraqis prefer these troops stay ? At least is there not a possibility that some protesters stop to protest now that Sadre left them ?

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At the end of this article, it reports that security forces removed concrete barriers at Tahrir Square. OPINE: after months of protests and this happens, to me, lMHO, signals that the security force is preparing to attack.

https://www.ntd.com/Iraqi-security-forces-clash-with-protesters-in-baghdad-and-other-cities_427761.html 

--is a good summary of weekend events

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Guest Sunshine
1 hour ago, Mohammadi_follower said:

What do you think about protests asking us troops to leave ? Do these protesters were mainly pro-iranian groups ? Do many iraqis prefer these troops stay ? At least is there not a possibility that some protesters stop to protest now that Sadre left them ?

The anti government protester are against both Iran and Usa  meddling but Iran is much larger problem because of the Pro Iranians Iraqis. They are reason why our country are in this state and they are loyal to Iran rather than their own country.  We should have good ties with America and Iran but we should never allow them to meddle in our country. This is only achievable if we make our country independent state. Civil state. Strong judicial system,  One constitutions. One army and one country. When you look at Saddam era. We had one of strongest  army in Middle East and we never had to rely on Usa or other countries help. 

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Guest Sunshine
2 hours ago, Mohammadi_follower said:

What do you think about protests asking us troops to leave ? Do these protesters were mainly pro-iranian groups ? Do many iraqis prefer these troops stay ? At least is there not a possibility that some protesters stop to protest now that Sadre left them ?

Sadr absence did not destroy this protest movement and it was proven yesterday when thousand of protester poured in Tahrir square to support them. These protester that Sadr betrayed are same people that did put him in power. He promised to fight against corruption and Iranian influence but now he became full blown Pro Iranian which might cost him all of his power..  What makes this more funny is that some of Pro Iranians does not like Sadr. He is going to isolate himself with his bad decision. He cannot flip flop forever.

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4 hours ago, Guest Sunshine said:

The anti government protester are against both Iran and Usa  meddling but Iran is much larger problem because of the Pro Iranians Iraqis. They are reason why our country are in this state and they are loyal to Iran rather than their own country.  We should have good ties with America and Iran but we should never allow them to meddle in our country. This is only achievable if we make our country independent state. Civil state. Strong judicial system,  One constitutions. One army and one country. When you look at Saddam era. We had one of strongest  army in Middle East and we never had to rely on Usa or other countries help. 

Actually I think these people are more loyal to ayatollah Khamenei than to Iran itself if you understand what I mean. 

 

4 hours ago, Guest Sunshine said:

Sadr absence did not destroy this protest movement and it was proven yesterday when thousand of protester poured in Tahrir square to support them. These protester that Sadr betrayed are same people that did put him in power. He promised to fight against corruption and Iranian influence but now he became full blown Pro Iranian which might cost him all of his power..  What makes this more funny is that some of Pro Iranians does not like Sadr. He is going to isolate himself with his bad decision. He cannot flip flop forever.

Most of sadr supporters will not follow him? 

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20 minutes ago, Mohammadi_follower said:

Most of sadr supporters will not follow him? 

 

4 hours ago, Guest Sunshine said:

He is going to isolate himself with his bad decision. He cannot flip flop forever.

To wit:

https://www.thebaghdadpost.com/en/Story/45743/Al-Sadr-turns-against-Iraqi-demonstrations  

https://www.thebaghdadpost.com/en/Story/45731/Iraq-s-Sadr-movement-begins-to-split 

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15 hours ago, Guest Sunshine said:

look at Saddam era. We had one of strongest  army in Middle East and we never had to rely on Usa or other countries help

:hahaha::hahaha::hahaha:

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Guest Sunshine
3 hours ago, Ashvazdanghe said:

:hahaha::hahaha::hahaha:

Why you are laughing this is 100% true. Even Iran did not manage get us even  thought they  economy were like  triple as big as ours and population size much better. I don’t like Saddam at all but this is true.

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l can't get the link to post, but a headline from the "national council of resistance in Iran" says that it and the (designated) MEK are holding protests in Canada, Denmark and "world wide" "in solidarity with lran and lraq protests."

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29Jan20

--5 dead,3 wounded: two were soldiers attacked and killed in Daquq; bomb killed 1 in Hadhar; unknown gumen killed soldier in Buhriz; a Sinjar police force officer's bullet ridden body discovered. Additional to the 600+ protesters dead, a 121 'activists have been kidnapped and found dead; https://original.antiwar.com/updates/2020/01/29/Iraq-daily-roundup-five-killed-in-insurgent-attacks/ 

29Jan20 Banner of Sistani (the last person trusted by protesters) and UN flag on "Mount Uhud" a.k.a. "Revolution Mountain" the six-story Turkish restaurant; Millions moving; https://aawsat.com/english/home/article/2104911/Iraq-protesters-unfurl-un-flag-appeal-protection 

29Jan20 https://www.thebaghdadpost.com/en/Story/45779/Iraq-protesters-shut-down-government-offices-in-Diwaniya   and a retired general assassinated

29Jan20 Replace US with NATO/OTAN? https://www.thebaghdadpost.com/en/Story/45782/Iraq-weighs-larger-NATO-role-to-replace-US-led-coalition

30Jan20 SlTREP -Students "fighting" with "militias"  https://themediaexpress.com/2020/01/30/iraqs-anti-Iran-regime-protests/ 

 

 

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"over 9,000 wounded" although article understates known deaths

appeals to the UN; https://www.thebaghdadpost.com/en/Story/45797/Iraqi-Protesters-Appeal-to-UN-forIntervention-to-Save-Iraq 

Gov't deadlock: https://www.thebaghdadpost.com/en/Story/45794/Iraq-parties-locked-in-talks-over-new-PM-as-clock-ticks-to-Feb-1-deadline  one MP claims the dual assassinations is one reason the the deadlock (last two paragraphs)

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