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In the Name of God بسم الله

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Guest Basira

Lol! 

The reason Islamic Revolution respects those borders is because of people like you who think they are so sacred they are willing to weaken the transnational alliance of Muslims in the name of fighting corruption. Islamic Revolution isn't some idealistic idiot movement. It knows it has to act gradually, make coalitions, form alliances, create consent, be patient. It knows it has limited resources and has to balance budget. And it's so rich saying to Islamic Revolution thanks for having us,  saving us from Taliban, allowing us to work despite unemployment, now give us more than your economy can manage. What an ungrateful stance! 

A bit like you saying Thanks Hashd and Sulaimani for risking your lives against Daish and helping us get rid of US occupiers but Iraq is not going to be your allies against your enemies because Youre not Iraqi. Oh and, we know most of us were silent when Saddam attacked Iran but we owe you guys nothing. Do come again next time we are fragmenting or next time a strongman starts gassing Shias and Kurds!

Attacking all Iraqi parties as corrupt and then attacking Iran's consulate. 

Kalimatul haqq yurad bihi baatil

Fight against corruption is word of truth but you are using it for baatil. Those borders and citizenship are baatil which must slowly be weakened because they are imposed and divisive and unpopular and false. 

Lol. How about you start by giving Kurdistan the towns and surrounding regions with majority Kurds? Course you won't because you want Baghdad's empire over unwilling people so you can have a share of their resources. What a self-defeating position. 

Alhamdulillah a lot of Iraqis are not ungrateful and are not spiteful and are not worshiping Iraq borders and care more than just Iraqis and they think about how foreign colonialism has kept us back for a century and even occupy land of people who are so close to us - except they were born on the other side of Sykes-Picot!!

Whats the point of religion if you are willing to unite and take weapons to fight an occupier to defend someone born in Sykes-Picot but you are not willing to do it for a Shi'a or Muslim who just happens to live outside your portion of Sykes-Picot and is in exactly same circumstance?? 

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19 minutes ago, Sumerian said:

Yes, in Iraq. Ethnic and sectarian quotas. Different laws for different people.

In Great Britain this is forbidden by law to beking if you are not anglican. In Canada there are different rules if you are english speaker or french speaker. By the way me too I am against "ethnic quota". However I have no problem about religious quota.

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1 minute ago, Mohammadi_follower said:

If you want to forbid every political groups who comitted injustice I think we must be ready to forbid 98% of political groups in this world.

And this happens only when Imam Mehdi (عليه السلام) comes.

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@Sumerian I have a question about Iraqi society. Some analysts have argued that dictators are often a representation of their societies, and many have in fact said the US invasion was bad not because it was illegal but because Iraq needed a dictator to keep the stability and fissures between groups to a minimum. Do you agree with this assessment? These protests are an obvious expression of anger against the establishment but then if that argument I suggested about the need for a dictator rings true then is a government with less corruption even possible? Societies themselves need to evolve for their governments to be at a point where they are truly accountable and serving everyone. If societies themselves are divided and "corrupt", then governments will reflect those attitudes. If you look around the region, why is it that strongmen rulers have been necessary to keep stability, as soon as there is any semblance of democratic reform, the societies become divided on sectarian lines, you have the MB gaining power, which is sectarian in itself, or you have corrupt leadership like Iraq, or ineffective governments like in Lebanon? Of course there is the involvement of external forces, no doubt, but is there something more? Internal factors? 

Edited by Mohamed1993

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7 hours ago, Mohamed1993 said:

@Sumerian I have a question about Iraqi society. Some analysts have argued that dictators are often a representation of their societies, and many have in fact said the US invasion was bad not because it was illegal but because Iraq needed a dictator to keep the stability and fissures between groups to a minimum. Do you agree with this assessment? These protests are an obvious expression of anger against the establishment but then if that argument I suggested about the need for a dictator rings true then is a government with less corruption even possible? Societies themselves need to evolve for their governments to be at a point where they are truly accountable and serving everyone. If societies themselves are divided and "corrupt", then governments will reflect those attitudes. If you look around the region, why is it that strongmen rulers have been necessary to keep stability, as soon as there is any semblance of democratic reform, the societies become divided on sectarian lines, you have the MB gaining power, which is sectarian in itself, or you have corrupt leadership like Iraq, or ineffective governments like in Lebanon? Of course there is the involvement of external forces, no doubt, but is there something more? Internal factors? 

Internal factors matter alot, in 2003 when the US downed the Saddamist regime, sectarianism came to be. Tribalism came to be. And ethnic nationalism came to be. All at once. Everyone supported leaders from their sect, and no one looked at themselves as "Iraqi first", which is why the sectarian constitution was adopted in the first place, to allow each group in Iraq to "share-power".

Many Shi'as in Iraq were chanting things like "we don't want a leader, except a Ja'fari" when heading to the polls. Having a Sunni rule over them again was impossible, they believed it is finally their turn to rule. Sunnis did not accept that, and this lead to an environment that led to the rise of Al-Qaeda and ISIS.

I feel like Iraqi society has evolved since then brother. Civil parties have rose for the first time, social media has come to be, and this new generation of Iraqis (that are leading the protests) seems to be secular and progressive to a large degree, are "colour-blind" when it comes to sectarianism, and have an element of nationalism. The new political host "stars" are all "progressives".

I think the power-sharing system is done and dusted, but I do not think a dictator is necessary. But a presidential system that gives the President more powers and the ability to choose their own cabinet (like the US President) is needed. Reforms packages need to include removal a ton of unneeded bureaucracy, get rid of useless ministry positions or merge them into other ones, and give attention to the private sector so we can finally have proper foreign investment. 

I believe prosperity leads to peace in society, we don't need a dictator for that. Even a country like Kuwait, to a large extent it isn't a dictatorship. It is quite successful.

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Wed,06Nov19  0500EST/NYC

"Clashes in Iraq kill two protesters" a Reuters carried by HeraldSun(Australia)

--these two deaths are in Karbala this morning (NYC time) 19:58hrs Baghdad

13 More Dead, Channel News Asia  https://www.channelnewsasia.com/news/world/Iraqi-security-forces-use-live-fire-to-disperse-baghdad-protesters-12068826 

Also, the lraqi Gov't has been able to shut off more internet and social media connections.

OPINE: How is it a gov't like lraq's under 'attack' can shout off internet and social media, but the US can't do it in Afghanistan (This Afghan aspect has been asked by the media for over a decade.) A good read about lS' resurgence, lS-Sinai and particularly lS-Khorasan. Since we fear that this newer lS will be among the shooters now and maybe with Suf_later, lS-Sinai is only two days overland away. https://www.voanews.com/south-central-Asia/us-takes-notice-more-Islamic-state-branches-back-new-leader 

EDIT/Added:  Sentenial Record is carrying an Associated Press  0300EST06Nov summary which also reports other deaths, arson, the British Embassy calling for gov't restraint, and so forth. 5 minute read:  https://www.hotsr.com/news/2019/nov/06/3-protesters-killed-in-clashes-Iraq-/ 

Edited by hasanhh

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33 minutes ago, Sumerian said:

 

To be honnest as an iranian I would of course prefer that iranian interest could be preserved in Iraq. But at the end of the day if iraqis prefer otherwise and Muslim interests are preserved I would accept that. The only issue for me is about to be sure Iraq would not become chaos if the actual government resign. After like you said it is not to foreigners to decide what is good for Iraq instead of iraqis.

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Wed, 2200EST/NYC, 06Nov19

3 More Dead, Arrest Warrents lssued and Distributed for Mass Arrests, Military Bans Live Ammo

https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2019/11/killed-baghdad-protests-military-bans-live-ammunition-191106140913317.html 

Outside Communications becoming more limited.

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The news media is seriously behind in the body-count. Over 300 have been killed while the media lags with 250 until this week with 260 and one news outlet reporting "269.

Friday 0800EST 08Nov19

Deaths, the Internet Blackout, immobility of many transportation services: https://www.cbsnews.com/news/Iraq-protests-death-toll-mounts-basra-baghdad-protesters-defy-police-today-2019-11-08/ 

Ayatollal Sistani Callas for Restraint:  https://english.almanar.com.lb/866483 

And of course, another "it's all about nefarious lran" diatribe -which BTW, Central Command opened a new field HQ in Bahrain yesterday (dedicated to invadingand bombing lRI) So far six countries have joined the US "peace keeper" mission (In the Old American West, the "Peace Keeper" was a revolver)

https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2019/11/report-reveals-extent-Iran-growing-middle-east-influence-191107123143506.html    -with most of the usual complaints.

 

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With as much internet trouble l'm having, rather than Edit the above, l'llpost this additional info here:

The CBS report above has reporting on the 4 days of Blackout with chart.

The Int'l lnstitute for Strategic Studies (London) did the anti-lran diatribe.

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Looks Like Change of Stances -Madhi to Remain

These two reports are the same:

https://www.wionews.com/world/Iraq-factions-reach-deal-to-save-government-protests-to-end-soon-261015 

https://gulfnews.com/world/mena/Iraq-factions-reach-deal-to-save-government-1.67716091 

At the end of both reports:  "Overnight, security forces began clearring out protest camps in Baghdad, the port city of Basra and the holy city of Karbala"[italics added -ed.]

Security forcees take the offensive:  https://www.rt.com/newsline/473024-baghdad-bridge-security-forces/ 

Qatari Leaks:  https://www.egypttoday.com/Article/2/77603/Qatari-Leaks-report-exposes-IRGC-visit-to-Doha  ;to "coordinate efforts to extinguish the lraqi revolution";  "ln April(2019-ed), Qatar and Turkey "voiced objection" at the US designation lRGC is "a terrorist group".

 

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1 hour ago, Mohammadi_follower said:

The son of ayatollah Sistani accepted to keep the actual government. 

lol now you believe Western media reports?

Anyway I don't believe in "taking down" the Government by force, I believe the current Government should resign and there should be a temporary Government to lead Constitutional changes and new laws in place against foreign influence and term limits imposed on politicians.

Then there should be elections for a new President, whilst getting rid of the pathetic "Prime Minister" role.

Not hard is it? Can you tell me what is wrong with such demands, which is what the protesters have asked? But when the corrupt is stuck to his seat, it is hard to move him.

Edited by Sumerian

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Sayed Ali Talqani - one of the well known speakers across Iraq, who is also very close to the 4 Maraaje in Najaf puts out an urgent appeal to the UN to intervene in helping the Iraqis in securing their human rights, getting rid of the corrupt and changing the constitution. 

He expressly points out the foreign backed 'political militias, killing innocent Iraqi protestors in an attempt to restore their control'

Everyone responsible for innocent blood spilt as well as their backers will be held accountable. 

 

 

 

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Salam, so my question is as far as I know Iran never condemned the killing and kidnapping and assassinations that Iraqi gov is doing to Iraqi protestors, so why is that? Is it not ok to kill Shias if the gov is non Shia but its ok if the gov is Shia? 

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On 11/5/2019 at 1:31 AM, Enlightened Follower said:

lol how funny are you. So Sistani says it is the right of every Iraqi to protest for his rights and for reform from corruption, and you bring me what Israel says? :hahaha: So what Iraqis shouldn't protest for their rights? They should shut up when they don't have electricity and water?

And did you forget who put these people who are currently in power in Iraq? Pretty sure it was America (supported by Israel). 

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On 11/5/2019 at 8:31 PM, Guest Basira said:

Lol! 

The reason Islamic Revolution respects those borders is because of people like you who think they are so sacred they are willing to weaken the transnational alliance of Muslims in the name of fighting corruption. Islamic Revolution isn't some idealistic idiot movement. It knows it has to act gradually, make coalitions, form alliances, create consent, be patient. It knows it has limited resources and has to balance budget. And it's so rich saying to Islamic Revolution thanks for having us,  saving us from Taliban, allowing us to work despite unemployment, now give us more than your economy can manage. What an ungrateful stance! 

Lol what the heck.

So the "Islamic Revolution" respects borders because of... people like me (and Sistani) who respect borders? So now the "Islamic Revolution" apparently cares about what people think? If so, it should listen to what millions of Iraqis are saying on the streets. I've never seen a country so hellbent on allying with a country that doesn't want to ally with it. Bruv if people don't want you, leave them alone. Simple.

"Weaken a transnational alliance in the name of fighting corruption" any alliance built on corruption is a corrupt alliance. Nothing worse than someone who claims to be Shi'a and has used his position to steal billions of dollars whilst his brothers are fighting hunger and don't have access to basic services or have any opportunity for employment. Tell me what do you want Iraqis to do? Give us advice. Should Iraqis sit and shut up and not demand basic human rights like access to clean water? 

If Iran's allies in Iraq - whom this "Islamic Revolution" has built and propped up, have nothing to show the Iraqi people in terms of improving their living standards, why should Iraqis support them? 

Stop bringing up ISIS, ISIS only became powerful because of the same corruption the Iraqis are protesting against. You know how Mosul fell? 200-300 ISIS fighters pushed thousands of troops out and they left their weapons and ran off. That's called corruption in the military. That happened under the eyes and rulership of the corrupt Shi'a parties. How can we defeat ISIS without eliminating the environment that allows ISIS to even exist? 

I also find it funny how the pro-Iran crowd keeps bringing up "US imperialism and Zionism" as if it wasn't America who put these so-called Shi'a in power and supported them and aided them. What is someone like Maliki if not a US-installed corrupt politician? 

Edited by Sumerian

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In all honesty, I have tried to stir away from these Iraqi protests' threads for close to a month on Shiachat, ever since I joined, because I know it's a serious and dangerous Fitna which I did not want to play a part in.

The fact that some people here are so oblivious to the injustice and the suffering of Iraqis as well as the level of corruption (in the name of religion) that many, happily turn a blind eye to, left me with no choice but to speak up. 

To answer your question, in simple terms: Double standards.

Because it does not serve their interests. Because if they were to stand with Haqq and justice, they would lose geopolitically. 

Is this a political policy building a foundation for the Imam (ajf)? 

I think not. 

As difficult as some may find this to digest, I can guarantee you that the Imam (ajf) does not want ANYTHING to do with the corrupt nor their backers. 

Edited by Moalfas

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14 minutes ago, Moalfas said:

In all honesty, I have tried to stir away from these Iraqi protests' threads for close to a month on Shiachat, ever since I joined, because I know it's a serious and denagerous Fitna which I did not want to play a part in.

The fact that some people here are so oblivious to the injustice and the suffering of Iraqis as well as the level of corruption (in the name of religion) that many, happily turn a blind eye to, left me with no choice but to speak up. 

To answer your question, in simple terms: Double standards.

Because it does not serve their interests. Because if they were to stand with Haqq and justice, they would lose geopolitically. 

Is this a political policy building a foundation for the Imam (ajf)? 

I think not. 

As difficult as some may find this to digest, I can guarantee you that the Imam (ajf) does not want ANYTHING to do with the corrupt nor their backers. 

You see but there are implications to this which are serious because it also implies that the supreme leader of Iran as the leader is somehow in on this and this also means he is somewhat corrupted ? Or what is going on because im confused as hell honestly,  Some people here think I want to stir fitna but im trying to find an answer for myself , im not seeking batil im seeking the haq. 

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3 minutes ago, SajjadKhil said:

Or what is going on because im confused as hell honestly,  Some people here think I want to stir fitna but im trying to find an answer for myself

Salam, I understand your concerns. I think what one should do in this situation is work on improving their Imaan and pray for the return of Imam Zamana(عليه السلام).

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@SajjadKhil

Brother, I explained to you in your other thread that this is a very sensitive topic and naming personalities that others might revere isn't the best way to create dialogue. 

This issue at hand isn't about a person. It's about a case. The case of the injustice against a people who were tricked by politicians by using religion.

You have to remember that the enemies are also waiting to jump at any opportunity to bolster friction between us. We cannot fall for it and we also cannot stay silent about injustice. 

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3 minutes ago, Moalfas said:

@SajjadKhil

Brother, I explained to you in your other thread that this is a very sensitive topic and naming personalities that others might revere isn't the best way to create dialogue. 

This issue at hand isn't about a person. It's about a case. The case of the injustice against a people who were tricked by politicians by using religion.

You have to remember that the enemies are also waiting to jump at any opportunity to bolster friction between us. We cannot fall for it and we also cannot stay silent about injustice. 

My brother the Sunnis revere the caliphs but when did that ever stop us from bringing their names into discussions? I don’t believe in political correctness, we should stop treating ulama as infallible because if we do that then we will not be able to apply Imam Ali’s rule( let the truth be the measure of men not men be the measure of truth) . 

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@SajjadKhil

لكلِ مقامٍ مقال 

Edited by Moalfas

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43 minutes ago, SajjadKhil said:

You see but there are implications to this which are serious because it also implies that the supreme leader of Iran as the leader is somehow in on this and this also means he is somewhat corrupted ? Or what is going on because im confused as hell honestly,  Some people here think I want to stir fitna but im trying to find an answer for myself , im not seeking batil im seeking the haq. 

Salam 

brother how dare you talk about the beloved ayatollah sayid Ali Khamenei 

how can you face Allah ob day of judgement after making accusations 

please repent because what you have implied and said 

I would be fearing punishment from Allah 

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As @starlight said, we should pray to Allah and try increase our Imaan and ask Allah to guide us through this Fitnah and all other Fitnahs around us. 

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6 minutes ago, Sisterfatima1 said:

Salam 

brother how dare you talk about the beloved ayatollah sayid Ali Khamenei 

how can you face Allah ob day of judgement after making accusations 

please repent because what you have implied and said 

I would be fearing punishment from Allah 

Im not accusing him im just wondering theres a difference. 

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