Jump to content
Guests can now reply in ALL forum topics (No registration required!) ×
Guests can now reply in ALL forum topics (No registration required!)
In the Name of God بسم الله
Syed Ali Mehdi Shah Naqvi

Mujtahids Marjas who Allow Third Testimony Ali un wali Ullah in Tashahud

Rate this topic

Recommended Posts

8 minutes ago, Syed Ali Mehdi Shah Naqvi said:

Show me a single ahdith that Imam said don't recite anymore than 2 testimonies in tashahud.
I will leave this discussion accept defeat and will never ever write any thread regarding third testimony!

Well, I am not a Mujtahid nor are you brother. But, I think that those who have held the view are most learned and you should first contend your case before them and then upload a video here if you win.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Just now, Cool said:

@Syed Ali Mehdi Shah Naqvi how many times do you want to discuss the issue of third testimony? How many times do open a new thread for the same discussion? 

If you follow any marja who allows you to recite it, then feel free to do it. Don't just try to convince others that third testimony is obligatory in tashahud. Because you cannot in anyway prove that.

Do you want that people quote hadith against your quoted hadith, list of Ayatullah who doesn't allow reciting it against your list? What are your motives? 

People say no one allows like Qasim raza on other thread.
I decided to post fatawas here.

2. Quote a hadith against hadith I give that says donot recite it in namaz. I am waiting for such hadith since 2 years!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, Syed Ali Mehdi Shah Naqvi said:

Ahlebait (عليه السلام) never had majority of people!
See what Allama khomeni says in his book Imamate aur Insaan e kamil:

image.png.1b3def12cc0222378c71cd14ab864373.pngimage.png.a6b5aeecfbd7823e7db141f04e7f2b51.png

Is this majority made by Ahlebait which will be against 12th Imam (عليه السلام) ?

Time and duration can be different. Such as some orders are wajib in one time and optional in other. Such as Prophet (PBUHHP) said: "Color your hair". When Imam Ali (عليه السلام) was asked as to why doesn't he color his hair, he said: "Color was made obligatory by Prophet during the time when there were less young people among our ranks so Prophet (PBUHHP) said that to color so that most of the people look young". Now, if you think that you know better than these ulemas, then I will ask you to show me that you have ilmul ghaib like Imam Ali (عليه السلام) brother. If not then let the Mujtahid deal with it. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 minutes ago, Jibrael-e-Muhammadi said:

Time and duration can be different. Such as some orders are wajib in one time and optional in other. Such as Prophet (PBUHHP) said: "Color your hair". When Imam Ali (عليه السلام) was asked as to why doesn't he color his hair, he said: "Color was made obligatory by Prophet during the time when there were less young people among our ranks so Prophet (PBUHHP) said that to color so that most of the people look young". Now, if you think that you know better than these ulemas, then I will ask you to show me that you have ilmul ghaib like Imam Ali (عليه السلام) brother. If not then let the Mujtahid deal with it. 

Mujtahid has ilm-e-gaib?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

This kind of extremism is how Aliyun Waliullah crept into the adhan and iqamah. Originally it had no part in it until the time of the Safavid crooks. Present day if you were to not say it in the adhan or iqamah, you will he labeled a nasibi—even though the scholars say it is not a part of the adhan, but preferable to say. Nice little loophole to appease the masses because they know it was not in the Adhans of Muhammad (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم) or in the adhans on the plains of Karbala. That’s another topic for another day.

Point being, eventually the extremists will win and Aliyun Waliullah will be accepted in tashahud by the majority. Those who will say it is innovation will be called a nasibi even though they will be on haqq.

Next they will try to force Aliyun Waliullah in the Qur'an by saying the original Qur'an was tampered with Aliyun Waliullah was taken out of it.

Rinse and repeat. The ghaalis always win because they stroke people’s emotions.

Edited by 786:)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 hours ago, Syed Ali Mehdi Shah Naqvi said:

Here I am presenting scans of fatawas from book:
Shahdat e salisa ka jawaz dar tashahud e Namaz:

Mujtahids Who Allow Ali Un Wali Ullah in tashahud
Refrences would be clear and anyone can verify them from particular book.

The best answer to OP is that "Follow your Marja" and do not try to indulge in minute actions that are just based on conjectures alone in order to keep unity among Shias.

wasalam.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Imam Ali:

“With regard to me, two categories of people will be ruined, namely he who loves me too much and the love takes him away from rightfulness, and he who hates me too much and the hatred takes him away from rightfulness. The best man with regard to me is he who is on the middle course. So be with him and be with the great majority (of Muslims) because Allah's hand (of protection) is on keeping unity. You should beware of division because the one isolated from the group is (a prey) to Satan just as the one isolated from the flock of sheep is (a prey) to the wolf.

Beware; whoever calls to this course, kill him, even though he may be under this headband of mine.”

reference: https://www.al-Islam.org/nahjul-balagha-part-1-sermons/sermon-127-if-you-refuse-stop-claiming

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
10 minutes ago, 786:) said:

namely he who loves me too much and the love takes him away from rightfulness

Who is he referring to?

10 minutes ago, 786:) said:

So be with him and be with the great majority (of Muslims) because Allah's hand (of protection) is on keeping unity.

Arent the majority Sunnis?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Just now, Syed Ali Mehdi Shah Naqvi said:

you have exposed him. he has been saying wahabi like things.
people can clearly see what he is upto

Wait, Im confused...

Exposed who?

And what is the hadith referring to??

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 minutes ago, Syed Ali Mehdi Shah Naqvi said:

you have exposed him. he has been saying wahabi like things.
people can clearly see what he is upto

Of course, your narrow mind can’t see anything other than black or white. Again, I don’t subscribe to any sect. I am a Muslim who believes Imam Ali should’ve been the first calipha.

Edited by 786:)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Just now, 786:) said:

He thinks I am an undercover Saudi nasibi. However, I am pretty open on these threads to share my views. I don’t have any sinister agenda.

Okay, understandable

But can you answer my questions about the sermon?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, 786:) said:

Of course, your narrow mind can’t see anything other than black or white. Again, I don’t subscribe to any sect. I am a Muslim who believes Imam Ali should’ve been the first calipha.

then why don't you leave us alone as this is a discussion between Shias only.
plus one who calls testimony of wilayat an innovation is not at all a person worth a cent

you should read that sermon you quoted here carefully.
in Alam e zar you testified to 3 shahdah now you are caclling it an innovation
You should care for yourself

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Just now, Ruqaya101 said:

Okay, understandable

But can you answer my questions about the sermon?

That’s for you to dig deep and answer for yourself. Molanas will point you in all different directions with bias whether Sunni or Shia.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The one who si rejecting the order of Imam e Sadiq,
The one who is rejecting adhan from al kafi,
the one who is rejecting taking names of Imams in namaz as per man la yahzarahu al faqih and tehzeeb al ahkaam 
He is the one of the parties! if you know what I mean.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 minutes ago, Syed Ali Mehdi Shah Naqvi said:

then why don't you leave us alone as this is a discussion between Shias only.

Shiachat is open to everyone. We shouldnt discourage anyone from having an open discussion. Its ok, we can give and take.

If theres something that bothers you, we can all deal with it calmly.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, 786:) said:

That’s for you to dig deep and answer for yourself. Molanas will point you in all different directions with bias whether Sunni or Shia.

I don’t have to dig deep, when I can just ask you, brother. You are the one who made the comment, and the one that posted the sermon, therefore you have an understanding of it. You have a chance to help me understand what your reasoning is of this sermon, so please explain to me.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
12 minutes ago, Ruqaya101 said:

Shiachat is open to everyone. We shouldnt discourage anyone from having an open discussion. Its ok, we can give and take.

If theres something that bothers you, we can all deal with it calmly.

Shia chat is open to everyone true but, in Shia-Shia discussion on laws and practices, who is he to interfere if he isn't a Shia?
I am discussing it with Shias not anyone else, neither do I consider others Muslims.
neither are our books hujjah on them neither are our scholors

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, Syed Ali Mehdi Shah Naqvi said:

who is he to interfere if he isn't a Shia?

Hes still an inquisitive person at the end of the day, honestly, most people that try to add in their own views are also trying to find answers.

Secondly, he said he believes that Imam Ali should have been the first khalifa, thats what being Shia is, along with having love for them

He simply doesnt want a title but follows them, I assume.

We should still try to reason with them, and understand their thought process in order to be able to help/receive. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
43 minutes ago, 786:) said:

namely he who loves me too much and the love takes him away from rightfulness,

Brother, he could be referring to nusayris or alawites, they love him so much as God.

47 minutes ago, 786:) said:

So be with him and be with the great majority (of Muslims) because Allah's hand (of protection) is on keeping unity. You should beware of division because the one isolated from the group is (a prey) to Satan just as the one isolated from the flock of sheep is (a prey) to the wolf.

And this could be referring to the position of the majority with regard to his status. The majority agrees that he is neither a God, as Nusayris believe, nor must one hate him like the khawarij.

This goes to @Khadim uz Zahra.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 minutes ago, Ruqaya101 said:

Brother, he could be referring to nusayris or alawites, they love him so much as God.

And this could be referring to the position of the majority with regard to his status. The majority agrees that he is neither a God, as Nusayris believe, nor must one hate him like the khawarij.

This goes to @Khadim uz Zahra.

This is the typical answer from sectarian molanas whose best interest is to keep sectarianism alive as it is their livelihood. After pondering over this sermon for years I’ve reached the conclusion that not only does it refer to nusayris and nasibis, but anyone who promotes sectarianism. This sermon is the zulfiqar on the head of sectarianism.

this sermon has a large part of why I don’t call myself Shi’a or Sunni. Imam Ali was against it. When he referred to his Shias he meant his supporters not the sect behind him. I am a Shia in the sense of his supporter. However I am not a Shia in the sectarian sense. Hope this helps.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
15 hours ago, 786:) said:

this sermon has a large part of why I don’t call myself Shi’a or Sunni. Imam Ali was against it. When he referred to his Shias he meant his supporters not the sect behind him. I am a Shia in the sense of his supporter. However I am not a Shia in the sectarian sense. Hope this helps.

title of Shia used for Prophet Ibrahim (عليه السلام) as Shia of propht Nuh (عليه السلام) & also refers to followers of Prophet Musa (عليه السلام) in story of killing the Egyptian & Prophet Muhammd (pbU) & all of Imams used title of Shia for their followers but they defined qualities of Shias not people that were around them like as sermons of Imam Ali (عليه السلام) that all types of Muslims like as Khawarij & uthmanists that were present in his his sermons more than Shias that majority of sermons of Imam Ali (عليه السلام) was response to them not Shias because they were in temporary allegiance with Shias against Muawaih (la) but they were hurting Imam Ali (عليه السلام) & his few Shias in Kufa too by their hateful speeches & disobedience of Imam Ali(عليه السلام) commands in war with Muawiah(la)

35) The Prophet (P.B.U.H) said, “Ali ((عليه السلام)) and his shi^a are the successful ones.” Ibn Al-Maghazeli, 47; Mizan Al-^Itidal, 2/313.

https://www.sibtayn.com/en/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=2133:forty-seven-sayings-about-Imam-Ali-a-s-from-Prophet-p-b-u-h&catid=263&Itemid=335

The Prophet (peace be upon him and his progeny) was asked by Ibn Abbas about the verse of the Holy Qur’an, “And the Foremost Ones are the foremost ones: they are the ones brought near to Allah” (56:10-11), to which he replied, ‘This refers to Ali and his Shia – they will be the foremost to enter Paradise, the ones brought near to Allah through His Magnanimity over them.” (Amali al-Tusi)

The Shia of Ali Are Humble and Aware

The Shia of Ali Are Able to Control their Speech

The Shia of Ali are Pious and Noble

The Shia of Ali Are Careful about Prayers

Imam al-Baqir (peace be upon him) explains the need for humility and God-consciousness in anyone claiming to be a Shia of Ali ibn Abi-Talib:

“Our Shia are none other than those who are consciously wary of their duty to Allah and obey Him. They are known solely for their humbleness, their humility, their returning promptly whatever is entrusted in their care, and their abundant remembrance of Allah.” (Tuhaf al-Uqool) It is not possible to merely claim one is a Shia while remaining oblivious of one’s duties towards God, the Holy Prophet, and the Purified Household. 

https://www.islamicinsights.com/religion/who-are-the-Shia-of-Imam-Ali.html

 

‘Ali b. Musa al-Riza (عليه السلام) was requested to make his way to the city of tus (present day Mashad) and was ordered to be the heir-apparent of Ma’mun al-Rashid, a group of the Shi’a came to see him and requested permission to enter into his presence.

The Imam replied, 'You claim that you are the Shi’a of ‘Ali whereas the true Shi’a of ‘Ali are people like Hasan, Husayn, Abu Dharr, Salman, Miqdad and Muhammad b. Abu Bakr.'

These people replied, 'We ask forgiveness, what else can we say?'

The Imam replied to them, “Say that you are the lovers of ‘Ali.'

Imam Ja’far b. Muhammad as-Sadiq (عليه السلام) has said that, “My companions are those who are the strongest in Wara’; fearful of Allah; are hopeful of His reward and surround themselves with the commandments of Allah.”

http://balaghah.net/old/nahj-htm/eng/id/book-libraray/002/001.htm

To be a Shi’a means to be self-sacrificing; show altruism; possess cognizance of Allah; be a person of Taqwa, and other such ethical traits. Our entire life, our house, our market place, our religious programs, our travels, our entire presence must all take on the aroma of Wilayah of the Ahlu'l Bayt (عليه السلام).

Edited by Ashvazdanghe

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

"The first of us is Muhammad, the mid of us is Muhammad, the last of us is Muhammad, all of us are Muhammad" - hadith.

The above is denied by this.

Moreover, if you really want to testify to imamah then testify to the Imam of our times, Imam al-Mahdi (عليه السلام).

Obviously insisting on this break away and new sect has a different purpose.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 10/1/2019 at 8:57 AM, Syed Ali Mehdi Shah Naqvi said:

People say no one allows like Qasim raza on other thread.
I decided to post fatawas here.

Yes that’s because I have asked our local city ullemas about it and did a online research of myself  and that’s what I found that no marjas as per my knowledge allowed it as a obligatory part of namaz.

but since you quoted all these fatwa  references I will check with my local   ullemas about it,and do research on your references myself too. 

But my marja ayotullah Sistani said you cannot read it as an obligatory part of namaz because it’ll become a bidah than , but As an Dua it’s fine 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest Mazahir naqvi

Could you please provide me the link of these books? or from where can i download these? 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You are posting as a guest. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.


×
×
  • Create New...