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In the Name of God بسم الله
Ruqaya101

Lets talk about Discipline.

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Every parent has their own way of disciplining their kids (even when they're adults)... Many conservative parents/cultural will resort to negative ways of disciplining their kids. This consists of:

- Guilt-tripping

- shaming

- hitting

- swearing/putdowns

and many other ways...

Its understandable that some parents, out of anger will:

- shout

- take away their electronics

But there are other ways to discipline a child or even adult kid. Other ways to teach them right from wrong. There are some parents who've never raised a hand on their kids but discipline their kids other ways/other tactics, their kids still were able to grow to be kind, caring and intellectual people. I don’t agree when parents resort to physically hurting their child/kid.

What do you think causes them to resort to such actions? Is it an anger outburst? Is it out of love? Worry? Maybe...Hatred??

 

 

 

Edited by Ruqaya101

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3 minutes ago, notme said:

Usually parents who resort to hitting or shouting were raised that way and don't know any more positive ways to correct and redirect their children/young adults.

I disagree, some parents don’t know any positive ways to correct, at all. And if thats the case, theyre not bothered, and think that a good smack would put some "common sense" into their minds.

Edited by Ruqaya101

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Just now, Ruqaya101 said:

I disagree, some parents don’t know nay positive ways to correct, at all.

I don't think that's a disagreement with what I said. I think that's a miscommunication centered around one word. Positive would be "more positive" than negative. Apologies for my words being unclear. Eloquence has never been one of my strengths.

Hitting and shouting are negative. Using reasoning or redirection, depending on the age of the child, are positive.

Guilt trips, removal of privledges, nagging and such are also negative, but usually less bad than resorting to violence. Taken to extreme, even these become psychological abuse.

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Just now, notme said:

I don't think that's a disagreement with what I said. I think that's a miscommunication centered around one word. Positive would be "more positive" than negative. Apologies for my words being unclear. Eloquence has never been one of my strengths.

Hitting and shouting are negative. Using reasoning or redirection, depending on the age of the child, are positive.

Guilt trips, removal of privledges, nagging and such are also negative, but usually less bad than resorting to violence. Taken to extreme, even these become psychological abuse.

Thats very unfortunate. I reckon even nowadays, we try to grow and think that we would love to raise our kids in a more positive environment, but thats difficult when finding a man as a spouse, Will they agree with the methods of their fathers and forefathers ?

2 minutes ago, notme said:

become psychological abuse

And I think thats also another aspect of it that isn't liked to be said. They don’t see the hitting as abuse. 

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7 minutes ago, Ruqaya101 said:

And I think thats also another aspect of it that isn't liked to be said. They don’t see the hitting as abuse. 

Anything done in anger is likely to be abuse. Parents need to learn to calm down before speaking or deciding on punishments. Often punishment isn't helpful, especially if the child already regrets the bad behavior. Sometimes a little empathy is the best thing a parent can do.

11 minutes ago, Ruqaya101 said:

but thats difficult when finding a man as a spouse, Will they agree with the methods of their fathers and forefathers ?

I guess you have to discuss that before deciding who to marry.

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57 minutes ago, Ruqaya101 said:

Every parent has their own way of disciplining their kids (even when they're adults)... Many conservative parents/cultural will resort to negative ways of disciplining their kids. This consists of:

- Guilt-tripping

- shaming

- hitting

- swearing/putdowns

and many other ways...

Its understandable that some parents, out of anger will:

- shout

- take away their electronics

But there are other ways to discipline a child or even adult kid. Other ways to teach them right from wrong. There are some parents who've never raised a hand on their kids but discipline their kids other ways/other tactics, their kids still were able to grow to be kind, caring and intellectual people. I don’t agree when parents resort to physically hurting their child/kid.

What do you think causes them to resort to such actions? Is it an anger outburst? Is it out of love? Worry? Maybe...Hatred??

 

 

 

They were most likely raised that way when they were younger so obviously when they have kids they’ll think the best way to discipline them is by those certain actions. But that’s not with all parents, as some probably do realise that it had a mental impact on them and wouldn’t want the same for their kids. And some parents are just not bothered honestly . 

or maybe they were abused when they were younger, they were hurt. 

yes it can be out of love, but the way they express this kind of love is wrong. How can a child understand from their parents that they’re getting beaten out of love? That they’re constantly being put down, because their parents care for them and they do these things because they want them to be better, but no it destroys our mental health. Guilt tripping is the worst. It’s like some type of manipulation, if that makes sense.  

When I was younger , my parents often guilt tripped me, and because I was always a very naive person, I would feel guilty for even the slightest thing I did to them. I would constantly run and beg for their forgiveness bc I feared that Allah would punish me and that my prayers wouldn’t get accepted. I always had the need to go and say sorry. Now realising how much that affected me mentally, I have grown to despise that word. Yes I may be still apologetic , but I don’t like to apologise, if that makes sense. The way you use words can be so powerful, whether they’re good or bad will leave an impact. Guilt tripping is one of the worst things that a lot of people tend to deal with, bc I believe that guilt is our weakness. It makes us withdraw and sit in a corner, contemplating and thinking. But part of it I blame myself for being sensitive and letting it get in my way, I should have just learnt to control it

 

Anyway, I may be complaining, but at the same time I think of my parents and I am still grateful alhamdullilah. Sometimes you just gotta appreciate the parents that you have regardless of the mental damage they may have caused. I hear stories about honour killings and what not, and I’m like some of us have the best parents, but we don’t realise it sometimes. Alhamdullilah for everything .

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7 minutes ago, 3wliya_maryam said:

They were most likely raised that way when they were younger so obviously when they have kids they’ll think the best way to discipline them is by those certain actions. But that’s not with all parents, as some probably do realise that it had a mental impact on them and wouldn’t want the same for their kids. And some parents are just not bothered honestly . 

or maybe they were abused when they were younger, they were hurt. 

yes it can be out of love, but the way they express this kind of love is wrong. How can a child understand from their parents that they’re getting beaten out of love? That they’re constantly being put down, because their parents care for them and they do these things because they want them to be better, but no it destroys our mental health. Guilt tripping is the worst. It’s like some type of manipulation, if that makes sense.  

When I was younger , my parents often guilt tripped me, and because I was always a very naive person, I would feel guilty for even the slightest thing I did to them. I would constantly run and beg for their forgiveness bc I feared that Allah would punish me and that my prayers wouldn’t get accepted. I always had the need to go and say sorry. Now realising how much that affected me mentally, I have grown to despise that word. Yes I may be still apologetic , but I don’t like to apologise, if that makes sense. The way you use words can be so powerful, whether they’re good or bad will leave an impact. Guilt tripping is one of the worst things that a lot of people tend to deal with, bc I believe that guilt is our weakness. It makes us withdraw and sit in a corner, contemplating and thinking. But part of it I blame myself for being sensitive and letting it get in my way, I should have just learnt to control it

 

Anyway, I may be complaining, but at the same time I think of my parents and I am still grateful alhamdullilah. Sometimes you just gotta appreciate the parents that you have regardless of the mental damage they may have caused. I hear stories about honour killings and what not, and I’m like some of us have the best parents, but we don’t realise it sometimes. Alhamdullilah for everything .

I don’t agree with it being out of love. If you love someone, you don’t physically harm them. Theyre your own flesh and blood.

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27 minutes ago, Ruqaya101 said:

I don’t agree with it being out of love. If you love someone, you don’t physically harm them. Theyre your own flesh and blood.

That’s true but then again not all parents have that intention that they’re doing it out of hatred.

sometimes I snack my little sister because she can be a nuisance, but that doesn’t mean I hate her, I love her more than all of my siblings. So really it just depends on the person, I’m not saying that physical harm is good, no it’s really bad, all I’m saying is that their intention isn’t based on hatred 

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10 minutes ago, 3wliya_maryam said:

That’s true but then again not all parents have that intention that they’re doing it out of hatred.

sometimes I snack my little sister because she can be a nuisance, but that doesn’t mean I hate her, I love her more than all of my siblings. So really it just depends on the person, I’m not saying that physical harm is good, no it’s really bad, all I’m saying is that their intention isn’t based on hatred 

You may love her, but youre doing it out of anger, not even because shes a nuisance, her being a nuisance angered you.

There are other ways...

 

Edited by Ruqaya101

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There is a difference between punishment and discipline.

l remember when l was in grade school, one of the teenage boys had done something. His father came home, walked into the house, the teenager came out the picture window, cleared the porch and sidewalk, hit the ground, his father came out and finished it in the front yard.

My Dad and l remembered that 40 years later. We forgot what he did.

Edited by hasanhh

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47 minutes ago, 3wliya_maryam said:

That’s true but then again not all parents have that intention that they’re doing it out of hatred.

sometimes I snack my little sister because she can be a nuisance, but that doesn’t mean I hate her, I love her more than all of my siblings. So really it just depends on the person, I’m not saying that physical harm is good, no it’s really bad, all I’m saying is that their intention isn’t based on hatred 

Try something other than a smack. Yank her hair or such.

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1 hour ago, notme said:

Anything done in anger is likely to be abuse. Parents need to learn to calm down before speaking or deciding on punishments. Often punishment isn't helpful, especially if the child already regrets the bad behavior. Sometimes a little empathy is the best thing a parent can do.

You forgot, there is the responsibility of being a parent, and the parent is legally responsible for what their charges do.

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1 minute ago, hasanhh said:

You forgot, there is the responsibility of being a parent, and the parent is legally responsible for what their charges do.

I didn't forget. I've got four children including two teenagers. Legal responsibility does not justify abuse.

Sometimes hitting a child might be justifiable, but rarely. Same with shouting. Same with "grounding" or taking away privledges, same with assigning extra chores. Each of these punishments might have a place, but too much loses any benefit. Parents need to treat their children with at least as much respect as they would give a new colleague in the workplace who might not know all the rules and policies, might try to get away with shortcuts, but one day is going to be a big help. If you wouldn't beat and shout at your workplace subordinate, why would you beat and shout at your child, who you love, and who is learning correct behaviors from you?

Of course we're all human and we all do regrettable things sometimes, but I really think children learn best by example. Rather than teaching my children to fear authority, I'd prefer to teach them to respect.

And parents should apologize when they are wrong.

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5 minutes ago, notme said:

I didn't forget. I've got four children including two teenagers. Legal responsibility does not justify abuse.

Sometimes hitting a child might be justifiable, but rarely. Same with shouting. Same with "grounding" or taking away privledges, same with assigning extra chores. Each of these punishments might have a place, but too much loses any benefit. Parents need to treat their children with at least as much respect as they would give a new colleague in the workplace who might not know all the rules and policies, might try to get away with shortcuts, but one day is going to be a big help. If you wouldn't beat and shout at your workplace subordinate, why would you beat and shout at your child, who you love, and who is learning correct behaviors from you?

Of course we're all human and we all do regrettable things sometimes, but I really think children learn best by example. Rather than teaching my children to fear authority, I'd prefer to teach them to respect.

And parents should apologize when they are wrong.

I love you for this response, you are absolutely right!

My aunty has 3 kids, 2 teenagers and has never raised a hand on them, they are the most respectful kids I have seen in this day and age. She taught them respect and disciplined them with respect and they grew up respectful.

The most I have seen her do is raise her voice the slightest when they did something wrong, but she would always explain to them the consequences in Islam about doing wrong and in humanity about doing wrong. 

And she grew up being constantly abused.

She shows them love and care, shes even taught them to have all the social media they want, but as long as they sit in front of her or in a close room, and limits it to an hour, and they enjoy most of their time outdoors or as a family.

Edited by Ruqaya101

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2 hours ago, Ruqaya101 said:

I disagree, some parents don’t know any positive ways to correct, at all. And if thats the case, theyre not bothered, and think that a good smack would put some "common sense" into their minds.

My little sister used a spatula as a warning symbol for my little nephew. When l was there, nephew would run behind me and l'd just stand there while he kept me between the two of them. So, when l'd baby sit him and he did too much, l'd get the spatula and he'd run. Then soon, he'd run into a corner and as l tapped on his legs he'd squeal with laughter. I knew for sure he thought 'spatula' was a game when he handed me a pastry rolling pin (which is long and slender) and said 'spatula'.But when he did do something, l'd say, 'give me your hand' and he'd start "La, Amu, La". Pretty soon he'd put his hand in mine and l'd hold it with my thumb and then about slap my thumb. He'd wail like l threw him up the stairs or something. Then l'd go back to whatever and he'd follow me wanting to do something else. He is a good kid. But he learned what he could or couldn't do --like sit on the good couch, or not to eat something in the wrong place and all.

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1 minute ago, hasanhh said:

My little sister used a spatula as a warning symbol for my little nephew. When l was there, nephew would run behind me and l'd just stand there while he kept me between the two of them. So, when l'd baby sit him and he did too much, l'd get the spatula and he'd run. Then soon, he'd run into a corner and as l tapped on his legs he'd squeal with laughter. I knew for sure he thought 'spatula' was a game when he handed me a pastry rolling pin (which is long and slender) and said 'spatula'.But when he did do something, l'd say, 'give me your hand' and he'd start "La, Amu, La". Pretty soon he'd put his hand in mine and l'd hold it with my thumb and then about slap my thumb. He'd wail like l threw him up the stairs or something. Then l'd go back to whatever and he'd follow me wanting to do something else. He is a good kid. But he learned what he could or couldn't do --like sit on the good couch, or not to eat something in the wrong place and all.

You tapped it though? I don’t think that would hurt at all. Its a tap.

Im talking about a hard smack, or shoving, pushing, etc.

Some parents even burn or use hot sauce.

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Just now, hasanhh said:

l was not joking. Smacking is something l do not like.

Then why did you tell her to yank her hair? -_- I don’t like smacking either, neither is yanking good... Do you know what its like to yank a girls hair, if someone so as sits on my hair accidentally, it hurts a lot. let alone yanking.

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1 minute ago, Ruqaya101 said:

You tapped it though? I don’t think that would hurt at all. Its a tap.

Im talking about a hard smack, or shoving, pushing, etc.

Some parents even burn or use hot sauce.

The younger the child the shorter the memory. Wait 'too long' and the child does not know why or for what it is being whacked for.

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1 minute ago, Ruqaya101 said:

Then why did you tell her to yank her hair? -_- I don’t like smacking either, neither is yanking good... Do you know what its like to yank a girls hair, if someone so as sits on my hair accidentally, it hurts a lot. let alone yanking.

I should have used another word, like 'tug' or something. I didn't use 'yank' intending to convey something painful -like a smack.

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1 minute ago, hasanhh said:

The younger the child the shorter the memory. Wait 'too long' and the child does not know why or for what it is being whacked for.

Point is a tap doesnt hurt. Thats good.

A child doesnt need to be whacked to learn right from wrong.

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Just now, hasanhh said:

I should have used another word, like 'tug' or something. I didn't use 'yank' intending to convey something painful -like a smack.

I think just using a distraction method is good enough. But youre right, as long as it isn't painful.

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5 hours ago, notme said:

Usually parents who resort to hitting or shouting were raised that way and don't know any more positive ways to correct and redirect their children/young adults.

Well someone has to break the cycle... 

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Guest Monad

How many parents from the old and new generation read?

why don't the clergymen constantly tell their listeners to self educate?.

We follow patterns of yore, we are promised of heaven if we obey, but how can one obey if they are not use to using and applying reason?.

punishment and fear is needed.

what is below is not concrete.

Rousseau Emile

Jean Piaget

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4 hours ago, Guest Monad said:

How many parents from the old and new generation read?

why don't the clergymen constantly tell their listeners to self educate?.

We follow patterns of yore, we are promised of heaven if we obey, but how can one obey if they are not use to using and applying reason?.

punishment and fear is needed.

what is below is not concrete.

Rousseau Emile

Jean Piaget

What’s your point? 

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Guest Mewithout

Hitting children is never an acceptable measure of discipline. It creates mistrust, anxiety, and sets children up to be abusers themselves unless they are aware of the pattern. Physical punishment is a negative reinforcement that causes the child to lie and sneak around to avoid punishment. It is highly correlated with anxiety, depression, anger outbursts and disorders, as well as low self-esteem for teenagers who are especially vulnerable to internalizing this type of punishment. When you hit, slap, spank, demean, taunt a child, he or she will learn to hit, slap, spank, demean, and taunt others. And sometimes, this behavior will last throughout adulthood. Children who have been subjected to this type of treatment will feel like the people who say they love them will also hurt them. 

There are more effective ways of discipline that doesn’t involve abuse. Parental frustration is never an excuse to hit or verbally attack vulnerable children.

Unfortunately, many parents are too frustrated to critically think about the consequences of their behavior when this occurs on the regular. Some may justify or gaslight or deny endlessly for the sake of not feeling guilty, not apologizing, or not having to admit any wrongdoings.

Parents who resort to physical abuse as a method of discipline and order likely don’t understand that children are people who are not robots to obey every command, that they have feelings, and that they do not have efficient conflict-resolution skills since they lack basic respect for their children. 

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Easy. Stop treating your kids like kids!!!! Treat them like adults!!!! Islamically they are adults as young as 9 so if you talk to them like they are intelligent and respect them, they will respect you. Parents have egos and only care about controlling their kids, not raising them. A good parents will teach kids responsibility by being respectful towards their kids, explaining why an action might not be a good idea instead of saying " don't do that because I'm the boss of you", and will respect decisions their kids make as long as they are halal.  

Of course don't kick out a 9year old and tell them to go get a job and house but do treat them with respect.

Have open discussions and debates with your kids. Don't treat them like there's no way they could know anything. If you're kids aren't smarter than you (at least in one field or topic), are you sure you raised them right? 

I could rant forever about lazy/bad parents...

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