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In the Name of God بسم الله
Ruqaya101

The issue with the online community and Shias in general.

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I see a lot of threads about being in unity and trying to end crisis, judgements and preaching their opinions as if its a valid fact.

First of all, I am no expert, and neither are you, people practice what they preach, but honestly it should be the other way around and you should preach what you practice. You practice Islam, you follow the Word of Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى), and you follow the actions of Ahlul Bayt AS. But there are those individuals who speak out their opinion (thats fine, your opinion, your choice, your mindset) but please don't validate it like you are some scholar or an actual preacher. There are others, who can come on this site, and see a mentality that can be deemed as a deviation of what Islam actually is.

If you don't like what certain Muslims are doing or believing or, then be free and speak your opinion on it, but make sure you preach it from a subjective perspective, don't include "facts" that are actually only your own guesstimates and theory. Be logical. 

The issue is, humanity is lacking empathy, knowledge, and logic. Shia's should try to strive for all three of those along with their faith. If you want to make a statement, try to add understanding into it, please don't speak behind peoples backs, and don't rationalise it, its a sign of immaturity. 

Im not saying this at all to be rude, I'm saying it because I honestly am disappointed with the community at some points. We need to try and grow to be better, not degrade ourselves.

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 I disagree, there have not even been many threads promoting unity. If I'm wrong, link  me some more (recent ones, not a few years ago) apart from mine. I'd like to see examples of what you're trying to get at, this thread is way to vague.

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8 minutes ago, ali_fatheroforphans said:

 I disagree, there have not even been many threads promoting unity. If I'm wrong, link  me some more (recent ones, not a few years ago) apart from mine. I'd like to see examples of what you're trying to get at, this thread is way to vague.

No, I wasn't referring to yours. I was referring to the Shia community in general. I am not referring to any one in particular. don’t jump to conclusions so quickly, take it easy.

Also, I just saw your thread... how is it promoting unity exactly? What is your point? You mention a scholar, (would you pm me this scholars name and is it the one from ACWA?)

and also let me clarify, the posts within some threads are contradictory to the actions of what we are meant to preach. Theres too much judgement, and opinionated based "facts" and im not going to name anyone. Thats not the point of this thread, my point is this: 

"

The issue is, humanity is lacking empathy, knowledge, and logic. Shia's should try to strive for all three of those along with their faith. If you want to make a statement, try to add understanding into it, please don't speak behind peoples backs, and don't rationalise it, its a sign of immaturity. 

Im not saying this at all to be rude, I'm saying it because I honestly am disappointed with the community at some points. We need to try and grow to be better, not degrade ourselves.

"

People need to start using emotional intelligence rather than just speaking anything.

Edited by Ruqaya101

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42 minutes ago, Ruqaya101 said:

Also, I just saw your thread... how is it promoting unity exactly? What is your point?

Oh okay.

Anyway, firstly we have to define what unity means. It means uniting under the banner of Ahlul Bayt(عليه السلام) and not disrespecting other marajas based on our limited knowledge. It also means we should avoid denouncing scholars simply because they have a differences in opinion regarding certain issues. For example if a scholar forbids tatbir vs one who allows it, we have no right to attack scholars and their followers. If a scholar promotes mysticism, it doesn't mean that we curse him. I'm sure you can come up with more examples. We should never judge a Shia based on his/her marja, we should avoid dedicating an entire imambargah for a particular marja. We're all followers of Ahlul Bayt (عليه السلام) at the end of the day. Okay, so how does it promote unity? Well I took the time out to contact a respectable scholar who probably has way more knowledge than all of us combined (in fact he even came to Perth).The scholar expressed his concern for the Shia community and acknowledged the fact that there are groups who denounce a lot of scholars simply for promoting unity (with Christians, Sunnis, people of all faiths). None of us in this online community are doing anything to promote unity in its entirety!  My post probably did very little to promote unity, it's not even that easy. There are scholars out there who visit churches and actually take part in real life projects to spread the message of Islam in a peaceful way. There are scholars out there who focus on the points of agreement rather than disagreements.

So promoting unity requires an active approach, and can be looked at from a social perspective or a theological perspective. For example, in real life, we can focus on increasing youth engagement at our mosques by hosting more social events. Our youth are our future! So we need to do what we can right now to stop these problems affecting our future generations. Speakers, sheikhs and scholars need to promote social wilayah, and stop these barriers  which prevent us from being one unit. It doesn't matter who your marja is, and it's a personal thing.

Alson, what we can do is to catch people/groups out who aim to create discord. For example, it's obvious how people like Yassir Al Habib and Imam Tawhidi are destroying Shia communities. People need to be aware of these groups who want divide us and create problems in our ummah. These groups want to make us look bad in front of Christians, Sunnis etc.  Having said that, It's also not all rainbows because now what if someone follows a scholar/important figure (not naming him) who calls all Shias to stop doing taqleed? Or you have their followers saying that taqleed is blind imitation and we will go to hell? how can we accept a belief which aims to destroy the creadibilty of all marajas, it's an extreme view which will create many problems. So we need to guide our youth and educate them, so they don't fall for these deviant ideas.

So yeah, it's good to investigate these matters ourselves, contact respectable scholars (who are known to be trustworthy and have good akhlaq), if we feel there's too much tension within our communities. Jumping on the bandwagon is dangerous and common amongst Shias imo.

Edited by ali_fatheroforphans

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45 minutes ago, Ruqaya101 said:

The issue is, humanity is lacking empathy, knowledge, and logic. Shia's should try to strive for all three of those along with their faith. If you want to make a statement, try to add understanding into it, please don't speak behind peoples backs, and don't rationalise it, its a sign of immaturity. 

Yeah I agree.

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15 minutes ago, ali_fatheroforphans said:

Oh okay.

Anyway, firstly we have to define what unity means. It means uniting under the banner of Ahlul Bayt(عليه السلام) and not disrespecting other marajas based on our limited knowledge. It also means we should avoid denouncing scholars simply because they have a differences in opinion regarding certain issues. For example if a scholar forbids tatbir vs one who allows it, we have no right to attack scholars and their followers. If a scholar promotes mysticism, it doesn't mean that we curse him. I'm sure you can come up with more examples. We should never judge a Shia based on his/her marja, we should avoid dedicating an entire imambargah for a particular marja. We're all followers of Ahlul Bayt (عليه السلام) at the end of the day. Okay, so how does it promote unity? Well I took the time out to contact a respectable scholar who probably has way more knowledge than all of us combined (in fact he even came to Perth).The scholar expressed his concern for the Shia community and acknowledged the fact that there are groups who denounce a lot of scholars simply for promoting unity (with Christians, Sunnis, people of all faiths). None of us in this online community are doing anything to promote unity in its entirety!  My post probably did very little to promote unity, it's not even that easy. There are scholars out there who visit churches and actually take part in real life projects to spread the message of Islam in a peaceful way. There are scholars out there who focus on the points of agreement rather than disagreements.

So promoting unity requires an active approach, and can be looked at from a social perspective or a theological perspective. For example, in real life, we can focus on increasing youth engagement at our mosques by hosting more social events. Our youth are our future! So we need to do what we can right now to stop these problems affecting our future generations. Speakers, sheikhs and scholars need to promote social wilayah, and stop these barriers  which prevent us from being one unit. It doesn't matter who your marja is, and it's a personal thing.

Alson, what we can do is to catch people/groups out who aim to create discord. For example, it's obvious how people like Yassir Al Habib and Imam Tawhidi are destroying Shia communities. People need to be aware of these groups who want divide us and create problems in our ummah. These groups want to make us look bad in front of Christians, Sunnis etc.  Having said that, It's also not all rainbows because now what if someone follows a scholar/important figure (not naming him) who calls all Shias to stop doing taqleed? Or you have their followers saying that taqleed is blind imitation and we will go to hell? how can we accept a belief which aims to destroy the creadibilty of all marajas, it's an extreme view which will create many problems. So we need to guide our youth and educate them, so they don't fall for these deviant ideas.

So yeah, it's good to investigate these matters ourselves, contact respectable scholars (who are known to be trustworthy and have good akhlaq), if we feel there's too much tension within our communities. Jumping on the bandwagon is dangerous and common amongst Shias imo.

See, I agree with this 100%. 

Thats what im trying to say, people are lacking knowledge, as you said "limited". No one is an expert, if you don’t agree with something, speak about it as you like, but don’t go around

1. speaking behind peoples backs

2. providing wrong "facts".

And if I were you, id paste this into your own thread, cause it makes sense what youre trying to say, without making you seem vague.

Edited by Ruqaya101

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34 minutes ago, ali_fatheroforphans said:

@2Timeless please read my response here to get a better understanding of what I mean by unity. 

That's not the issue though, I disagree with you on how you were pointing fingers on one group as if all other Shias and followers of other marjas are angels. 

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I with promoting unity and being tolerant, like most things the devil is in the details. How does one promote unity, how does one be tolerant ? 

I live in the US, in Michigan where you have a Muslim community that is a few hundred thousand and a Christian Community of 5 to 6 million. I think the difference between the Dearborn community and other Muslim communities in the US is that we are one of the largest, one of the most dense on terms of Muslims per square mile, and Majority Shia. 

Some ulema here, those who live here probably know who I am talking about, attempt to do interfaith dialogue with the Christian community here. The interfaith dialogue usually begins with some sort of meal, especially during Ramadan, and ends with some sort of declaration about how Muslims and Christians have alot in common, how we revere and respect Prophet Isa((عليه السلام).) and his mother Mariam. This is better than not having a dialogue but it is far from ideal because it just goes around in a loop without addressing the real issues and concerns from either side. We see the same Christian ministers and the same brothers and sisters there who always attend.

Christians have concerns about Muslims (terrorism, forced marriage, etc) that are blown up in certain churches and Muslims have concerns about Christians. Until the concerns are addressed directly and respectfully by both sides and we see the people who really have these concerns show up at these gatherings, I don’t think they will be very productive

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