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In the Name of God بسم الله
ali_fatheroforphans

Let's all unite - important read!!

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Salam,

I've spoken to a well known scholar who has studied at Hawza in Qom for about 20 years , so he's studied under Sheikh Mohammed Shomali. I won't share his name on public (unless you pm me). But yeah, I just don't like how much hatred our online Shia community have towards a group of scholars and no one bothers doing anything about it! So I messaged him about how certain people make accusations towards certain scholars (not mentioning names), and his opinion on it! to be honest I asked him because I don't trust the online community and people here are keyboard warriors who want to just jump on the bandwagon without being rational. I'd rather listen to a credible scholar who has probably done more in terms of serving the community etc.

That scholar told us that there are two types of problematic groups within Shias, and he told me to recognise them, although we should never hate them etc.

(1) This group of Shias tend to be common within Iraqi communities. They believe that Ahmad Al Hassan is the Yamani who comes  before Imam Mahdi (عليه السلام). They have this extreme view where they reject all scholars and warn us from doing taqleed.

(2) This group of Shias tend to be narrow-minded and have enmity towards many scholars who call for unity. Also, they tend to curse, reject scholars simply due to differences in opinion. It's very clear that this group encourages us to view religion as black and white. It's a view where "we're correct" and all other scholars are wrong. Apparently, they are also against Shia Christian unity etc.

Anyway, that scholar emphasised on the fact that we've failed as an ummah if we don't hold on to the rope of Allah. The Ahlul Bayt (عليه السلام) are supposed to unite us, not divide us. Differences in opinion are perfectly healthy and it's simply because we don't have access to a living Imam(عليه السلام). Once Imam Mahdi (عليه السلام) comes, everything will become clear and he'll sort everything out! However, how are we preparing for his arrival? Why are we so arrogant that we're willing to accuse scholars of corruption, mock, ridicule and curse them? It's actually destroying Shias communities. Be patient for the time being and never take extreme stances! 

I'm not saying what the scholar said word to word, however I'm conveying his general message. Let's all unite under the banner of Imam Hussein (عليه السلام)!

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Wa'alaykum Assalaam.

Well done brother, for your effort. May Allah reward you for your sincere endeavor. However, I think there is a big part of the issue that you and your Hawza friend have neglected.

It's one thing that there's so n so groups that have enmity towards certain and/or all scholars.

But, its an entirely different thing when scholars are bashing other scholars calling them jahil. When scholars are being beaten to death and/or cursed because of not agreeing with a particular regime, run by scholars. When scholars refuse to meet this regime, despite originally being a descent of that regime's country. It is more than just a difference of opinion.

This is the bigger issue. The lack of unity between scholars. Until they don't sort the issue out between themselves, don't except X group to see the light, I'm afraid.

And I think at some point the Shia will have to realise the strong possibility that the scholarly ranks can be hijacked so to create this discord. Perhaps that's already happening. Or perhaps these scholars are doing a good job of satisfying the enemy themselves. I mean, you'd think that people of that calibre could meet up once in a while and say, "Hey, wassup?". But nope. That day will never come. Not unless they're forced to by a divine presence.

By the way, isn't there a hadith that when Imam Mahdi will come, he will chop the heads off of scholars? One must wonder how many of them will be the heads of Shia scholars...

Fi Amanillah.

Edited by Jaane Rabb

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31 minutes ago, Jaane Rabb said:

But, its an entirely different thing when scholars are bashing other scholars calling them jahil. When scholars are being beaten to death and/or cursed because of not agreeing with a particular regime, run by scholars. When scholars refuse to meet this regime, despite originally being a descent of that regime's country. It is more than just a difference of opinion.

Hmm firstly we should make it clear whether we're referring to Ayatollahs or scholars. Yeah, it definitely is an issue if you have a scholar cursing or bashing another scholar. However, I'm not sure if it's that common..

Brother, believe me, there is this teacher in this online hawza (I signed up for before) and my friend (this user on shiachat) asked him why are there videos of scholars and their followers cursing certain scholars. You know what his reply was? He said "scholars who misguide people with deviant ideas, should be cursed so people are aware etc."  Basically, these personalities will always justify their actions somehow.

People have this black and white mentality where "I am right and whoever disagrees with me deserves to be cursed". It's so sad how even personalities like Ayatollah Bahjat are bashed, why? Simply for having an interest in mysticism and Irfan etc.

Sometimes I fail to see the differences between Salafis and Shias sadly. Many people in our communities are starting to feel as if they know everything about what Ahlul Bayt (عليه السلام) preached. You even have the youth (as young as 12 years of age) denouncing scholars and ridiculing them despite their limited knowledge. What's the big deal if there are differences in opinion?

But yeah, it's complicated, and we can at least do our part of uniting.

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4 hours ago, ali_fatheroforphans said:

Why are we so arrogant that we're willing to accuse scholars of corruption, mock, ridicule and curse them?

I disagree. If a scholar is corrupt then we should call him out. A corrupt and insincere scholar is much more harmful than a corrupt common man. 

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27 minutes ago, Sirius_Bright said:

 

I disagree. If a scholar is corrupt then we should call him out. A corrupt and insincere scholar is much more harmful than a corrupt common man. 

Brother, it's not that straightforward. Islam tells us to be very careful with our accusations and mockery. Islam doesn't encourage ignorant keyboard warriors to always give their opinion on certain scholars and cause discord between people. In this digital world, how can we even be sure that our facts are even correct? There is so much bias out there. It's best to be careful and not jump to conclusions and ridicule respected personalities with a large following. The fact is that we don't have all the evidences even though we like to think as a result of our arrogance. 

Sometimes it may be very very obvious such as Moulana Fazal ur Rahman lol, so I do agree to some extent.

Edited by ali_fatheroforphans

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4 minutes ago, ali_fatheroforphans said:

Brother, it's not that straightforward. Islam tells us to be very careful with our accusations and mockery. Islam doesn't encourage ignorant keyboard warriors to always give their opinion on certain scholars and cause discord between people. In this digital world, how can we even be sure that our facts are even correct? There is so much bias out there. It's best to be careful and not jump to conclusions and ridicule respected personalities with a large following. The fact is that we don't have all the evidences even though we like to think as a result of our arrogance. 

Is it fine to accuse some scholars and their Shias of being MI6 agent?

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As Shias, we are most unfortunate. The 2 things that have been instrumental in our survival are our scholars and our azadari. We are unfortunate because we bash both these things wholeheartedly without realizing we are killing ourselves. 

We have countless ahadith praising scholars yet we read 1 book and form opinions about how the scholar is wrong and we are right. 

Similarly our forefathers gave up everything for azadari to be spread throughout the world. But we want to destroy it all by questioning it and rejecting it rather than getting to the essence of these actions andtm traditions.

In this day and age, my compass and barometer is simple. Anyone bashing our marajae or marjaeat OR anyone trying to redice/dilute azadari is not one of us.

I commend you for your efforts brother.

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1 hour ago, Sirius_Bright said:

Is it fine to accuse some scholars and their Shias of being MI6 agent?

You're not looking at the core of the problem. Of course certain groups of Shias need to be investigated who aim to divide us and instill hate in the heart of innocent Shias towards scholars.

It's very clear that the West and certain anti-unity Shia groups feed off each other. What do you expect when certain personalities such as Imam Tawhidi and Yassir al Habib go around causing problems in the Shia community? It means we need to closely investigate them and find out whether they're backed by certain governments.

It's a whole different thing how certain scholars are cursed simply for promoting unity and having differences in opinion. This is the real problem, why do we feel that anyone who promotes mysticism and Irfan is to be cursed? Why do we feel that those who promote Shia Sunni unity are to be mocked etc.? It just goes to show how short-sighted  we've become.

It's so clear who's actually working to support the cause of Imam Hussein(عليه السلام) vs those who are trying to do the opposite.

Edited by ali_fatheroforphans

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6 hours ago, Jaane Rabb said:

By the way, isn't there a hadith that when Imam Mahdi will come, he will chop the heads off of scholars? One must wonder how many of them will be the heads of Shia scholars...

Salam he will reappear beside Kaaba in Mecca & there will be heads of many wahabi scholars that their head will chop only standing against him by Shias is by limited group before entering to Kufa but  he based on hadiths that you mentioned Imam Mahdi (aj) will start his revenge from Mecca that is land of wahabi scholars that said he will nail choped  hands of thieves of Kaaba from  house of Allah that many of them from will be from Bani Shiba that are supporting Saud monarchies & al- Saud are blind to their stealing from pilgrims of Kaaba 

6 hours ago, Jaane Rabb said:

But, its an entirely different thing when scholars are bashing other scholars calling them jahil. When scholars are being beaten to death and/or cursed because of not agreeing with a particular regime, run by scholars. When scholars refuse to meet this regime, despite originally being a descent of that regime's country. It is more than just a difference of opinion.

that regime clearly is regime of Iran that british Shi'ism & wahabists of United States and KSA are against it. 

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" الحسین یجمعنا " اوبریت مشترك بین العراق وإیران ولبنان "

"َAl-Hussain gathers us" "pair (united) video clip between Iraq & Iran & Lebanon" 

https://www.aparat.com/v/oml32/quot%3B_الحسین_یجمعنا_%26quot%3B_اوبریت_مشترك_بین_العراق_وإیران_ولبنان

https://fa.abna24.com/news/ویدیو-خبری/کلیپ-الحسین-یجمعنا_758276.html

 

نتیجه تصویری برای الحسین-یجمعنا

نتیجه تصویری برای الحسین-یجمعنا

 

https://www.video3.net/v/oml32/

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3 hours ago, ali_fatheroforphans said:

You're not looking at the core of the problem. Of course certain groups of Shias need to be investigated who aim to divide us and instill hate in the heart of innocent Shias towards scholars.

It's very clear that the West and certain anti-unity Shia groups feed off each other. What do you expect when certain personalities such as Imam Tawhidi and Yassir al Habib go around causing problems in the Shia community? It means we need to closely investigate them and find out whether they're backed by certain governments.

It's a whole different thing how certain scholars are cursed simply for promoting unity and having differences in opinion. This is the real problem, why do we feel that anyone who promotes mysticism and Irfan is to be cursed? Why do we feel that those who promote Shia Sunni unity are to be mocked etc.? It just goes to show how short-sighted  we've become.

It's so clear who's actually working to support the cause of Imam Hussein(عليه السلام) vs those who are trying to do the opposite.

This is different than what you said in the OP. 

I would not name any scholar but there are different kinds of scholar we should watch out for:

Honest, pious and khaalis - These scholars deserves all our respect after Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى), His Prophet (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم) and Aimma (عليهم اسلام). 

Corrupt and misguided Scholars - These are some people who start with all good talks and when they get good grip of people they start saying all notorious thing that suit their motive. 

In any case, never ever sit back and accept everything from every scholar. Don't look what title they have or how many followers they has. They are fallible beings. Technically, their misguidance is possible. It is possible that some might do Tafseer of Surah Dahar or Ayate Balligh and make their favorite person it's misdaaq rather than Ahlul Bayt (عليهم اسلام). 

Imam Ali ((عليه السلام).) Said :

How many a scholar is corrupt and [how many] a worshipper is ignorant, so be wary of the corrupt among the scholars and the ignorant among the worshippers. 

(Ghorar al-Hikam) 

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My experience so far is that all those other Shia groupies are all too toxic too venomous rather to even talk to let alone unite with. Within seconds they will get triggered about something and proceed to abandon all etiquette and label you illegitimate, names, names and more names mindlessly. [not mentioning any names] At least some try.

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14 hours ago, ali_fatheroforphans said:

(1) This group of Shias tend to be common within Iraqi communities. They believe that Ahmad Al Hassan is the Yamani who comes  before Imam Mahdi (عليه السلام). They have this extreme view where they reject all scholars and warn us from doing taqleed.

Good idea, bad execution. 

You're talking about unity but you're aiming jabs at only at one group of people. I might have misunderstood your post, correct me if I am wrong. 

What about the followers of Khomeini, Sistani, Shirazi, Hezbollah who all attack eachother and insult eachothers scholars? You can’t make a thread exclaiming "unity!" when you refuse to see that all humans attack each other, no matter who they follow. 

Instead of pointing fingers at one group of people (who I personally don’t agree with at all) why not make general points aimed at everyone? So, in practice your post does the exact opposite of what is intended. 

Edited by 2Timeless

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^ The scholar simply said based on his observation that a lot of his followers are Iraqi (not that it's important or mattters), I never said anything other than that. I have no idea what you're on about. So now it's all good, move on. 

Wait I'm confused, are you against the fact that I mentioned their nationality?

Edited by ali_fatheroforphans

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55 minutes ago, 2Timeless said:

Instead of pointing fingers at one group of people (who I personally don’t agree with at all) why not make general points aimed at everyone?

 

15 hours ago, ali_fatheroforphans said:

Why are we so arrogant that we're willing to accuse scholars of corruption, mock, ridicule and curse them?

This is a general statement.

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@ali_fatheroforphans I don’t know why you're so lost. I'm against the fact that you mentioned the specific group of people (followers of Al Mehdi) and the fact that they were Iraqi (highly irrelevant and inaccurate, but that wasnt my original point anyway). 

Theres bad apples everywhere. Some Sistani followers curse and insult Khomeini followers (vice versa). Some Khomeini followers curse and insult Shirazi followers (vice versa). Some Shirazi followers curse and insult Hezbollah followers (vice versa). Got it? My point is, instead of picking on one group, either mention them among all other Shia groups or don’t mention any names at all. By mentioning names you're demonising some and creating in-groups and out-groups. 

Edited by 2Timeless

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Ayatollah Taskhiri to address Muslim world leaders about unity in Russia

https://en.abna24.com/news//ayatollah-taskhiri-to-address-Muslim-world-leaders-about-unity-in-russia_977780.html

September 24, 2019 - 2:24 PM News Code : 977780 Source : IRNALink: 

Ayatollah Taskhiri to address Muslim world leaders about unity in Russia

 

A senior advisor to the Iranian Supreme Leader took part in the seventh annual reunion of Russia’s Muslims in Moscow on Monday.

Ahlul Bayt News Agency (ABNA):

Ayatollah Mohammed Ali Taskhiri, a senior advisor to Iran’s supreme leader, participated in the meeting where 500 Muslim figures from 42 countries were present.

Ayatollah Taskhiri will deliver a speech on Tuesday about Muslims’ unity to counter the enemies’ plots in Moscow Grand Mosque.

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"الحسین یجمعنا " اقوی اوبریت مشترک بین العراق وایران و لبنان 

“Hussain gathers us” powerful work between Iraq ,Iran & Lebanon 

 

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