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In the Name of God بسم الله
Abu Hadi

The Great Satan - Explained

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@Abu Hadi have you read A People's History of the United States? It probably goes a bit further than is totally factual, but it definitely is a different perspective on history - history from the point of view of oppressed persons. It's long and not exciting, but I recommend this book if you're interested in a point of view not of the victorious.

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To be honest I feel bad each time I stomp the United States, and that is often enough. I feel bad precisely because of dear siblings like Abu Hadi who believe in things like there being 'a vast majority of good people living in America who among other good things want good for the rest of the world' or that 'there is an unknown secret group at the top controlling it all', no my friend it is the great Satan himself with horns and a tail controlling it all and none other. With inaction and excuses on even matters like global warming one can understand its all out of his animosity for the entire human race.

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Americas days as a superpower are numbered, its decline has already started and once the US runs out of money to help Israel with, Israel will be done as well.

Even america's allies are moving away from the dollar trade because they don't want to be on the losing end of americas sanctions hindering their own trade, it will also be interesting to see what impact non state bound cryptocurrencies will have on the dollar and the global trade long term. As cryptocurrencies gets more adopted, the power of banks and national currencies who are subject to politics will decline substantially.

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7 hours ago, Abu Hadi said:

I am pretty sure that if he were to receive a few pretty girls from Iran as a gift, as well as a few square kilometers in North Tehran and given a permit to build his Iranian golf club there, let's call it Marilagoishazad, you would see him flip around 180 degrees on the Iran issue. Whether those who actually make the decisions would let him do this is another matter.  I am not suggesting that the Iranian government do this, because the dignity of the Iranian nation is more valuable than this, but I think you'll agree what the outcome of this theoretical deal would be. 

I respectfully disagree, brother. I also never thought that Khomeini was referring to the American people when he called that international thug the great satan. Everyone knows, people in a democracy like America's are able to control nothing, let alone the policies and future of a powerful country and international evil with a senate full of Zionists, crusaders and greediest rich men alive. But I do believe that the real Satan from scriptures exclusively controls the helm and rudder of the country. As for the people, I don't think even 'marg ber amreeka' is ever meant for the ordinary American people, minus all the rednecks and other complacent kinds I'm sure you already know plenty about.

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On 9/21/2019 at 1:42 PM, Abu Hadi said:

what Imam Khomeni(رضي الله عنه) refers to as the 'Great Satan' began sometime in the beginning of the 20th century.

I disagree. The very foundation of the United States makes it the Greate Satan. The 19th century propaganda that made people immigrate to the united states, the basis of the so called "American dream" is based on greed, vanity, narcissism and egoism. Things that most religions deem immoral or right out sin. That is these values (or lac there of) that has led to the exploitation and imperialism that is driving the actions of the United States both domestically and abroad. The ideology of the United States - capitalism is in essence the competition for worldly splendor. It is no wonder that Christianity in the US has been corrupted into the so called "prosperity gospel," which is contrary to the teachings of Nabi Issa, because capitalism is the de facto religion of the United States.
Of cause I can not say that all Americans are equally to blame, but most Americans com across as arrogant. The belief in American exceptionalism is really just stupidity paired with arrogance. This is widespread even among the so called progressives in the US. As a left-wing European I would expect left-wings to be pro-Palestinian an anti-Zionist, but I have often been called anti-Semite by so called progressive Americans for questioning the legality of Israel.
I think the world would be better of if United States was dismantled and humbled. I would willingly participate in burning American flags and shouting "مرگ بر آمریکا".

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Now that Mugabe is gone, do you think the Great Satan US will lift sanctions? They like sanctioning all over you might be forgiven for thinking that they are sanctioned somewhere else pure.

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On 9/21/2019 at 1:42 PM, Abu Hadi said:

The US, unlike other countries

The US is not a country it's a corporation, like many other countries that has been sold out.

The US is not run by americans nor by the presidents. It's owned by foreigners in britain, the city of London.

check my thread:

https://www.shiachat.com/forum/topic/235063988-city-of-London-vatican-washington-dc-finance-religion-military/

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The phrase "Great Satan" was originally applied to Hollywood(movies) in the 1920s. Because of the immoral content of its product.

It is only later that this was applied to the US (gov't) as a whole, but before Ayatollah Khomeini and the Revolution. I forget by whom and when.

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No matter where you look at the country's history you will find special unholiness. From European petty criminals punished to pioneer and colonize it to the genocide of the natives, to its systematic crusades against religions, cultures and science and all things natural, moral and human. For an unbiased student person it is hard to call it anything else.

Like the great deceiver it deceives you, told you it went to the moon and mars, told you it fights al-cia-duh and isis, champions freedom and justice, all absurd lies and fake self praises.

Edited by Darth Vader

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I don't agree with the rhetoric of "great satan", I think the US is just doing what every country has and will always do, pursue its interests in a way it sees fit, regardless of the human cost that entails. Any country will do the same, with China's growth you will see the same. The difference is I think Americans are very, very naive, they think of their country as a force for good, a beacon of hope and freedom etc. If you look at the history books, people like Columbus, Jefferson, Andrew Jackson, most of these people are lauded and venerated, and their crimes are glossed over or seen as justifiable given the end result they achieved, and this continues till date. In an authoritarian state where these things cannot be discussed, that is understandable, but in the US, which is a pretty free society, there is a strong sense of indoctrination, which is way more powerful than what any dictator could hope to achieve.

I don't agree with this notion that the government is fundamentally all that different from the people, who are just everyday people who want to go to work, feed their families and live a peaceful life. That may be true to an extent, but there's an argument to be made that governments do reflect the people as well. I don't know about you @Abu Hadi but in my experience, Americans tend to be pretty ignorant and there is a particular disdain for intellectual discussion in a way that doesn't exist in many other countries. I mean you literally have a party in power that thinks climate change is a Chinese hoax, and I've met people who think its just a way for governments to make money off taxes. So imagine that. The people may be nice when you converse with them but I've noticed they tend to enjoy meaningless, superficial conversation and what does it say about them to elect representatives who believe this stuff? It's either ignorance, and they don't really care to learn or apathy, both of which point to a degree of complicity in the actions of the government. I came to the US as a student, and I always enjoyed conversing with international students or even first generation Americans more, they seemed to be more interested in talking about things that many consider boring or nerdy. Of course, this does not include all Americans, indeed there are many brilliant minds this country has produced, but it is true to a large extent.

You can examine polls of Americans throughout conflicts in the world if you want to just evaluate the innocence of the average American. During the Vietnam war, where horrendous atrocities were perpetrated against the Vietnamese people, the My Lai massacre, in which a bunch of US troops massacred most of the men, women and children in the village of My Lai. This was stopped because a morally courageous US soldier, threatened to use his weapon against the soldiers who perpetrated this massacre. What was the reaction back in the US? Thompson, the brave US soldier got death threats as a result of doing so, it didn't matter that he tried to stop the murder of innocent people, what mattered was that he threatened US forces, even though they were committing a horrendous atrocity. Only one soldier Calley Jr. was convicted, and he was placed on house arrest, and released after continued pressure from Americans, who sympathized with him, many of them felt he shouldn't have been punished and was a scapegoat. This is just one example where the myth of innocence fades away and you see a direct alignment of ideology with the government. If you look at polls, most Americans, over 70% agreed with the invasion of Iraq, and many turned against it after it was taking too many American lives, but the Iraqi lives that would be lost did not matter when they supported the war to begin with. 

You can see the above pattern repeatedly. In the Korean war, the US decimated a fifth of Korean population, that hardly prompted much of a backlash. Polls have shown that Americans are shockingly supportive of nuking civilians in Iran and North Korea; https://www.vox.com/future-perfect/2019/6/26/18750566/nuclear-war-polling-americans-support-civilian-deathshttps://www.mitpressjournals.org/doi/pdf/10.1162/ISEC_a_00284. When you look at support for the use of drone strikes, there are only a select few countries that support the policy despite the evidence that they overwhelmingly kill civilians; https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Public_opinion_about_U.S._drone_attacks.

There is something to be said from these studies above that Americans see themselves as superior to everyone else, and there is an arrogant mindset that doesn't just prevail in the leadership but in the population too. Now you can say that this is a product of indoctrination, but in a country that is free, you have a responsibility to educate yourself, if you don't do so, then you cannot feign innocence, you are complicit. 

 

 

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On 9/21/2019 at 8:01 AM, notme said:

A People's History of the United States?

Reading it now, it is hard to get through, it's long, but I will finish it now that I've bought it. I was kind of hoping it would give a bit more context to someone that's fairly ignorant of American history, like how all the states were acquired. So I find myself googling a lot about how every state was acquired, important milestones like 1763, 1783, 1812, etc. 

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42 minutes ago, Mohamed1993 said:

Reading it now, it is hard to get through, it's long, but I will finish it now that I've bought it. I was kind of hoping it would give a bit more context to someone that's fairly ignorant of American history, like how all the states were acquired. So I find myself googling a lot about how every state was acquired, important milestones like 1763, 1783, 1812, etc. 

It isn't intended as a primary text, but as a counter to the whitewashed version of history that American students are taught in school. I imagine it must be difficult as a primary history, as it assumes the reader knows the sanitized version.

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16 minutes ago, notme said:

to the whitewashed version of history that American students are taught in school.

Into this, l submit Frances Fitzgerald's America Revised(1979) which outlines the changes in American history books used in schools that reflect a revisionist or patronizing socio-political correctness. This started in the mid 70s.

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4 hours ago, Mohamed1993 said:

I don't agree with the rhetoric of "great satan", I think the US is just doing what every country has and will always do, pursue its interests in a way it sees fit, regardless of the human cost that entails.

And this is why the human race has no future. This is why, every 30 thousand years there had to be divine intervention among the populace of the Jinns, because the evil ones would overcome the planet and acted like animals, abusing power just like America does now perhaps. No wonder then some Shias think the Ahl-al-Bayt (عليه السلام) to be deities because they themselves can not imagine there being such good and human members of their own species. Or like our corrupt ex-prime minister said during trial that there are no truthful or honest persons in the whole nation they why is he being held accountable. I disagree with those thinkings.

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16 hours ago, Mohamed1993 said:

If you look at polls, most Americans, over 70% agreed with the invasion of Iraq, and many turned against it after it was taking too many American lives, but the Iraqi lives that would be lost did not matter when they supported the war to begin with. 

 recent poll from Business Insider found that just 13 percent of Americans would support U.S. military action in response to the strike on Saudi oil facilities. Similarly, a Gallup poll from August found that just 18 percent of Americans think it's time to take military action against Iran.

https://thehill.com/opinion/national-security/462507-trumps-Iran-strategy-maximum-pressure-minimum-impact

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