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In the Name of God بسم الله
Haji 2003

Determinism and freewill [Research]

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In this article we have showed that people do not lack moral responsibility only because they have “bad genes” or come from a “bad environment.” Furthermore, the results shows that so far, we have no proof that determinism in the wider sense is true. However, neither does our study disprove that the world is deterministic in this sense. Twin studies cannot falsify this thesis, since not even twins growing up together are ever exposed to the same environmental influences down to the last detail.

https://www.frontiersin.org/articles/10.3389/fpsyg.2014.00308/full

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There is no such thing as "randomness" in this world... does this imply it's all determined?

Imagine if I were playing billiards. If I know every single variable that goes into breaking the balls, I can determine where every ball will land on the table. The balls appear randomly broken on the table due to my ignorance of every variable.

So can we then say God has taken the greatest billiard shot in history?

Edited by khamosh21

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5 hours ago, khamosh21 said:

There is no such thing as "randomness" in this world... does this imply it's all determined?

Imagine if I were playing billiards. If I know every single variable that goes into breaking the balls, I can determine where every ball will land on the table. The balls appear randomly broken on the table due to my ignorance of every variable.

So can we then say God has taken the greatest billiard shot in history?

One could say that there is no reason why anything exists at all, and that all the spontaneous arisings that happen are what make the whole universe and life so beautiful, exciting, amazing and miraculous!  The reason why we get so carried away with our thoughts is because our thoughts are by and large very random.  If every thought is anticipated and controlled then wouldn’t that be boring?  But the more we try to mentally understand the world with our mind and the more try to fit things within specific laws (thereby falsely believing that we have control over this world or that we have understood this world) then the more we veil ourselves from the fun play of this universe.  The universe is like a dance, it isn’t meant to be thought about and analyzed but simply enjoyed.  When one thinks they understand then they don’t understand.  But one should understand only that they don’t understand.  

 

The idea that God began this universe is the minds attempt to understand this universe.  Just let go of this false belief.  Be an Atheist.  

 

Edited by eThErEaL

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@eThErEaL

Are we and everything else just streams of data; 1s and 0s, that flow through God's conscious? Hence we're all intertwined with one another (would explain how my wife can read my mind now n then) and in particular, God.

What's your thoughts on Perennialism?

Edited by Jaane Rabb

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48 minutes ago, Jaane Rabb said:

@eThErEaL

Are we and everything else just streams of data; 1s and 0s, that flow through God's conscious? Hence we're all intertwined with one another and in particular, God.

Can you explain this more?

also what do you mean by Perennialism?

There is nothing but reality (which is neither limited nor limitless).  It is neither this nor that, it is neither here nor there, it just IS.  

Anything else which appears to be is simply just that, an appearance.  Reality appearing as this or as that, reality appearing as here or as there.  

Look into the mirror.  You see a room in the mirror.  You see depth.  You see here and you see there.  You see this thing and you see that thing.  But in fact there is depth at all.  There is just the mirror appearing to have depth.  There isn’t this thing or that thing because there is only the substance of the mirror which is neither this nor that.  

So to correct your statement, I would not say that God “connects us all” (as if to say we have some kind of superstar and distincct realities), but rather I would say that our reality is God just like the reality of what appears in the mirror is nothing but the mirror itself.  Do you see the nuance in what I am saying.  It may sound like I am being picky with my words but there is a major distinction that need some to be drawn.  

 

 

 

 

Edited by eThErEaL

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7 hours ago, eThErEaL said:

One could say that there is no reason why anything exists at all, and that all the spontaneous arisings that happen are what make the whole universe and life so beautiful, exciting, amazing and miraculous!  The reason why we get so carried away with our thoughts is because our thoughts are by and large very random.  If every thought is anticipated and controlled then wouldn’t that be boring?  But the more we try to mentally understand the world with our mind and the more try to fit things within specific laws (thereby falsely believing that we have control over this world or that we have understood this world) then the more we veil ourselves from the fun play of this universe.  The universe is like a dance, it isn’t meant to be thought about and analyzed but simply enjoyed.  When one thinks they understand then they don’t understand.  But one should understand only that they don’t understand.  

 

The idea that God began this universe is the minds attempt to understand this universe.  Just let go of this false belief.  Be an Atheist.  

 

How would you go about proving thoughts are random? so many of my thoughts are highly dependent on fixed variables.. 

ps. have u abandoned the other thread?

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2 hours ago, khamosh21 said:

How would you go about proving thoughts are random? so many of my thoughts are highly dependent on fixed variables.. 

Here is a piece I wrote a while back, It may help with your question.

A 'Creator' that is not in control or fully aware of every future consequence of his creative act is not a God, he is an irresponsible, capricious entity.

If God exists, everything in existence is tied to God through a network of causes (an unbroken chain of cause-and-effect), so we can only do what he designed us to do, essentially making us nothing more than conscious puppets.

We do not choose our feelings, desires, tastes, genes, environments, parents, family and relatives, tribe/clan, native language, upbringing, and son and so forth; everything has already been decided for us.
We each have about as much knowledge of what we are about to think next as we do of what someone else would think. We are not the author of our own thoughts. That is, we don't pick our next thought. 
Can you stop yourself thinking, can you choose which thoughts to summon for analysis or decide what to think?

Schopenhauer famously wrote:
Man can do what he wills but he cannot will what he wills. 

He makes a distinction between freedom of acting (which he endorses) and freedom of willing (which he refutes). 

Our 'willing' is slave to desires over which we have little control; we cannot will what we will. Yes you are free to do whatever you desire. But you are not free to choose your desires.
In essence, man's desires are not predicated on careful calculation; rather, they are innate. The "heart of man" is autonomous and fickle. Our urges are genetically encoded, rooted in the subconscious and not subject to the whims (desires) of the conscious mind. 

ws.

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