Jump to content
In the Name of God بسم الله

إِنَّ اللَّه عَلَى كُلِّ شَيْءٍ قَدِيرٌ

Rate this topic


Logic1234

Recommended Posts

  • Advanced Member

:bismillah:

Some people put forth their arguments from the verse where Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) says:

إِنَّ اللَّه عَلَى كُلِّ شَيْءٍ قَدِيرٌ

The translations:
 
Surely, Allah has power to will anything.
surely Allah has power over all things.
 Allah is able to do all things.

They assert that since Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) is capable of doing all things or He has the power to do everything therefore, He can speak lie, He can be unjust, He can forget, He can err etc. (Na'udobillah). I have also seen a comment here on Shiachat where a person arguing that God even have the power to create another God, can have Son & wife. That person was calling himself a Muslim!!

So what's left!! God can even resign from His status, He can start worshiping that God (na'udobillah). 

Any wrong interpretation of verse can take humanity directly into Hell.

So what are the things which God cannot do? By "cannot do", I mean to say, things which does not suits to His being. He is pure of doing such things.None can expect such things from Him.
Like in a verse of Chapter Taha, Prophet Musa (عليه السلام) said "My Lord errs not, neither He forgets". Like the verses of Al-Ikhlas says "He begets not nor is He begotten". 

And how should we deal with these sort of arguments? 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

The Lord is not unjust and does not create evil, but he created us and we are unjust and evil. We seek refuge from the evil inside that which he has created not the evil he created.

One may say, well Allah does what He pleases and even when He seems to be unjust, He isn't because He has wisdom in His actions and we don't.

Unlike humans, just because God has the ability to do something, it doesn't mean He does it. He doesn't work on a whim, He is All-Knowing and not senseless, He works by His own law and it is only us that breaks that law.

What I'm getting at is God's limitless capacity and ability does not mean He is anarchistic and has no control, unlike humans who when given even a sniff of power abuse it. God works by laws, methodical, meticulous, consistent, so just because He can do something it doesn't mean He does it. He would not do something that would be of no benefit to us, that would confuse us and cause us to fight.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Advanced Member
29 minutes ago, Logic1234 said:

Like in a verse of Chapter Taha, Prophet Musa (عليه السلام) said "My Lord errs not, neither He forgets"

What would be your reaction when you were told that, you are wrong, God can forget and then the person present a verse before you as an evidence:

 نَسُوا اللَّهَ فَنَسِيَهُمْ
They have forgotten Allah; so He hath forgotten them. (9:67, Yusuf Ali)
 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

16 minutes ago, Logic1234 said:

What would be your reaction when you were told that, you are wrong, God can forget and then the person present a verse before you as an evidence:

 نَسُوا اللَّهَ فَنَسِيَهُمْ
They have forgotten Allah; so He hath forgotten them. (9:67, Yusuf Ali)
 

That Allah cannot forget His creation, but if they turn their back on Him He can turn His 'back' on them, it doesn't mean He has forgotten them like someone forgets to post out a letter. Allah is ever present, if He could forget about someone that would imply He isn't ever present. How can one forget and remember at the same time, Allah remembers, Allah sees everything, how can you see something, remember something and forget it all at the same time? That's not even logical for humans to do so why would it be logical for God?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Advanced Member
2 minutes ago, aaaz1618 said:

but if they turn their back on Him He can turn His 'back' on them, it doesn't mean He has forgotten them like someone forgets to post out a letter. Allah is ever present, if He could forget about someone that would imply He isn't ever present.

You further need to explain this "turning back on them" brother. 

It would too mean that He is unaware because He turned His back on them. How can He (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) be said that He has turned his back on someone? If anyone turns his back from Allah, can he really turns his back from Allah? 

 فَأَيْنَمَا تُوَلُّواْ فَثَمَّ وَجْهُ اللّهِ
and whithersoever ye turn, there is Allah's Countenance.

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Advanced Member
1 hour ago, Logic1234 said:

Like the verses of Al-Ikhlas says "He begets not nor is He begotten". 

What would be your response when you were told that no, God can "will" to take a son and then that person presents before you a verse as evidence:

لَوْ أَرَادَ اللَّهُ أَنْ يَتَّخِذَ وَلَدًا لَاصْطَفَىٰ مِمَّا يَخْلُقُ مَا يَشَاءُ
 If Allah desire to take a son to Himself, He will surely choose those He pleases from what He has created. (39:4)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

With the forgetting, do you believe it is literal or symbolic, as I said about back turning, back turning is not literal in terms of forgetting.

Same with the son concept, God is coming down to our level of intellect and asking us to think. Man made God's son of the person they chose, Jesus, because of their interpretation of Isaiah or other earlier texts. Here Allah is saying actually no, if He was to take a son He will surely choose. 

The Qur'an is addressing people and sometimes I think Allah uses ideas that we would understand or ponder upon. He didn't beget, and He is saying if He did beget then is the subject matter the begetting or something else?

An example might be: I didn't go to the shops today to buy milk, but if I did buy milk today I would have gone later so I could get a discount. 

Is the main focal point about milk or the method of getting it? The reality is I didn't buy milk so it's not about the milk.

Allah isn't asking us to get caught up on Him and the begetting, He's saying we don't choose who He chooses because as I mentioned before people took Jesus to be His son, when that was not the words of God but the word of man.

Excuse me if what I'm saying is confusing, lack of sleep, the analogies make sense in my head anyway.

Edited by aaaz1618
Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Advanced Member
1 minute ago, aaaz1618 said:

With the forgetting, do you believe it is literal or symbolic, as I said about back turning, back turning is not literal in terms of forgetting.

Irrespective of literal or symbollic impressions, I simply understand verse as "they ignored Allah so Allah ignored them". The word نَسُوا can also mean "to ignore". 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Advanced Member
7 minutes ago, aaaz1618 said:

Excuse me if what I'm saying is confusing, lack of sleep, the analogies make sense in my head anyway.

:) I do suggest you to sleep well and give me the best analogy with a completely fresh mind. You can improve and formulate a more convincing response. But you need to keep in view all the related verses where Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) has given the arguments about why He is pure of having or taking son or wife. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Veteran Member

As mentioned in the other topic, Allah can do everything that is شيء (a thing) he cannot do a non-thing (لا شيء). What is a non-thing? I do not know as a non-thing doesn’t exist. It’s like asking a blind person to describe the colour purple.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Advanced Member

Look,

There are things and non-things. God being unjust is a non-thing. God can do everything. A paradox is a non-thing and a non-thing does not exist. So God being just and unjust does simply not exist. Because it isn’t a thing, it is a paradox, and a paradox is a non-thing, which means it doesn’t exist. Therefore, this question itself is against logic in all aspects. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

5 hours ago, Logic1234 said:

By "cannot do", I mean to say, things which does not suits to His being.

This is simple. The 99 names of Allah are a very good list of his attributes. 

۔ القوی The One Who is beyond all weakness. His strength is supreme. unlimited and inexhaustible.

۔ الواحد The One who is unique in His essence and He has no second, no partner, peer or rival. 

۔ الاحد The One who is unique in attributes. There is no one or nothing like Him and He was, is and will forever be the unequaled

5 hours ago, Logic1234 said:

They have forgotten Allah; so He hath forgotten them. (9:67, Yusuf Ali)

Forgetting is 'abandoning' rather than literal forgetting just like verse 45:34 

 And it will be said, "Today We will forget you as you forgot the meeting of this Day of yours, and your refuge is the Fire, and for you there are no helpers.

4 hours ago, Logic1234 said:

If Allah desire to take a son to Himself, He will surely choose those He pleases from what He has created. (39:4)

This is the wrong translation! It's 'Had Allah wanted a son' and the verse ends on 'but he is Wahid, The One'  I am pasting three different translations and they all show a different meaning to the one you wrote.Someone probably gave you a distorted version.

PICKTHALL

If Allah had willed to choose a son, He could have chosen what He would of that which He hath created. Be He Glorified! He is Allah, the One, the Absolute.

SAHIH INTERNATIONAL

If Allah had intended to take a son, He could have chosen from what He creates whatever He willed. Exalted is He; He is Allah, the One, the Prevailing.

Yusuf Ali

Had Allah wished to take to Himself a son, He could have chosen whom He pleased out of those whom He doth create: but Glory be to Him! (He is above such things.) He is Allah, the One, the Irresistible.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

50 minutes ago, Mortadakerim said:

 God being unjust is a non-thing.

Please elaborate it brother.

We can say God is a "thing" like of which there is "nothing".

In the above statement, God is a thing and His likeness is nothing. Second point is that since God is a "thing like of which there is nothing", can He cease to exist? 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Veteran Member
9 hours ago, Logic1234 said:


إِنَّ اللَّه عَلَى كُلِّ شَيْءٍ قَدِيرٌ

The translations:
 
Surely, Allah has power to will anything.
surely Allah has power over all things.
 Allah is able to do all things.
 

The following verses and similar can be seen in order to get the meaning of the verses from the Qur'an. Some of these are mentioned below:

٢_٢٠  يَكَادُ ٱلْبَرْقُ يَخْطَفُ أَبْصَٰرَهُمْ ۖ كُلَّمَآ أَضَآءَ لَهُم مَّشَوْا۟ فِيهِ وَإِذَآ أَظْلَمَ عَلَيْهِمْ قَامُوا۟ ۚ وَلَوْ شَآءَ ٱللَّهُ لَذَهَبَ بِسَمْعِهِمْ وَأَبْصَٰرِهِمْ ۚ إِنَّ ٱللَّهَ عَلَىٰ كُلِّ شَىْءٍۢ قَدِيرٌۭ

002:020 The lightning almost snatches away their sight: whenever it shines for them, they walk in it, and when the darkness falls upon them, they stand. Had Allah willed, He would have taken away their hearing and sight. Indeed Allah has power over all things.

٢_١٠٦         ۞ مَا نَنسَخْ مِنْ ءَايَةٍ أَوْ نُنسِهَا نَأْتِ بِخَيْرٍۢ مِّنْهَآ أَوْ مِثْلِهَآ ۗ أَلَمْ تَعْلَمْ أَنَّ ٱللَّهَ عَلَىٰ كُلِّ شَىْءٍۢ قَدِيرٌ

002:106 For any verse that We abrogate or cause to be forgotten, We bring another which is better than it, or similar to it. Do you not know that Allah has power over all things?

٢_١٠٩         وَدَّ كَثِيرٌۭ مِّنْ أَهْلِ ٱلْكِتَٰبِ لَوْ يَرُدُّونَكُم مِّنۢ بَعْدِ إِيمَٰنِكُمْ كُفَّارًا حَسَدًۭا مِّنْ عِندِ أَنفُسِهِم مِّنۢ بَعْدِ مَا تَبَيَّنَ لَهُمُ ٱلْحَقُّ ۖ فَٱعْفُوا۟ وَٱصْفَحُوا۟ حَتَّىٰ يَأْتِىَ ٱللَّهُ بِأَمْرِهِۦٓ ۗ إِنَّ ٱللَّهَ عَلَىٰ كُلِّ شَىْءٍۢ قَدِيرٌۭ

002:109 Many of the People of the Book are eager to turn you into unbelievers after your faith, out of their inner envy, [and] after the truth had become manifest to them. Yet excuse [them] and forbear until Allah issues His edict. Indeed Allah has power over all things.

٢_١٤٨         وَلِكُلٍّۢ وِجْهَةٌ هُوَ مُوَلِّيهَا ۖ فَٱسْتَبِقُوا۟ ٱلْخَيْرَٰتِ ۚ أَيْنَ مَا تَكُونُوا۟ يَأْتِ بِكُمُ ٱللَّهُ جَمِيعًا ۚ إِنَّ ٱللَّهَ عَلَىٰ كُلِّ شَىْءٍۢ قَدِيرٌۭ

002:148 Everyone has a cynosure to which he turns; so take the lead in all good works. Wherever you may be, Allah will bring you all together. Indeed Allah has power over all things.

٢_٢٥٩         أَوْ كَٱلَّذِى مَرَّ عَلَىٰ قَرْيَةٍۢ وَهِىَ خَاوِيَةٌ عَلَىٰ عُرُوشِهَا قَالَ أَنَّىٰ يُحْىِۦ هَٰذِهِ ٱللَّهُ بَعْدَ مَوْتِهَا ۖ فَأَمَاتَهُ ٱللَّهُ مِا۟ئَةَ عَامٍۢ ثُمَّ بَعَثَهُۥ ۖ قَالَ كَمْ لَبِثْتَ ۖ قَالَ لَبِثْتُ يَوْمًا أَوْ بَعْضَ يَوْمٍۢ ۖ قَالَ بَل لَّبِثْتَ مِا۟ئَةَ عَامٍۢ فَٱنظُرْ إِلَىٰ طَعَامِكَ وَشَرَابِكَ لَمْ يَتَسَنَّهْ ۖ وَٱنظُرْ إِلَىٰ حِمَارِكَ وَلِنَجْعَلَكَ ءَايَةًۭ لِّلنَّاسِ ۖ وَٱنظُرْ إِلَى ٱلْعِظَامِ كَيْفَ نُنشِزُهَا ثُمَّ نَكْسُوهَا لَحْمًۭا ۚ فَلَمَّا تَبَيَّنَ لَهُۥ قَالَ أَعْلَمُ أَنَّ ٱللَّهَ عَلَىٰ كُلِّ شَىْءٍۢ قَدِيرٌۭ

002:259  Or him who came upon a township as it lay fallen on its trellises. He said, ‘How will Allah revive this after its death?!’ So Allah made him die for a hundred years, then He resurrected him. He said, ‘How long did you remain?’ Said he, ‘I have remained a day or part of a day.’ He said, ‘No, you have remained a hundred years. Now look at your food and drink which have not rotted! Then look at your ass! [This was done] that We may make you a sign for mankind. And now look at its bones, how We raise them up and clothe them with flesh!’ When it became evident to him, he said, ‘I know that Allah has power over all things.’

٢_٢٨٤         لِّلَّهِ مَا فِى ٱلسَّمَٰوَٰتِ وَمَا فِى ٱلْأَرْضِ ۗ وَإِن تُبْدُوا۟ مَا فِىٓ أَنفُسِكُمْ أَوْ تُخْفُوهُ يُحَاسِبْكُم بِهِ ٱللَّهُ ۖ فَيَغْفِرُ لِمَن يَشَآءُ وَيُعَذِّبُ مَن يَشَآءُ ۗ وَٱللَّهُ عَلَىٰ كُلِّ شَىْءٍۢ قَدِيرٌ

002:284 To Allah belongs whatever is in the heavens and the Earth. Whether you disclose what is in your hearts or hide it, Allah will bring you to account for it. Then He will forgive whomever He wishes and punish whomever He wishes, and Allah has power over all things.

٣_٢٦  قُلِ ٱللَّهُمَّ مَٰلِكَ ٱلْمُلْكِ تُؤْتِى ٱلْمُلْكَ مَن تَشَآءُ وَتَنزِعُ ٱلْمُلْكَ مِمَّن تَشَآءُ وَتُعِزُّ مَن تَشَآءُ وَتُذِلُّ مَن تَشَآءُ ۖ بِيَدِكَ ٱلْخَيْرُ ۖ إِنَّكَ عَلَىٰ كُلِّ شَىْءٍۢ قَدِيرٌۭ

003:026 Say, ‘O Allah, Master of all sovereignty! You give sovereignty to whomever You wish, and strip of sovereignty whomever You wish; You make mighty whomever You wish, and You degrade whomever You wish; all choice is in Your hand. Indeed You have power over all things.’

٣_٢٩  قُلْ إِن تُخْفُوا۟ مَا فِى صُدُورِكُمْ أَوْ تُبْدُوهُ يَعْلَمْهُ ٱللَّهُ ۗ وَيَعْلَمُ مَا فِى ٱلسَّمَٰوَٰتِ وَمَا فِى ٱلْأَرْضِ ۗ وَٱللَّهُ عَلَىٰ كُلِّ شَىْءٍۢ قَدِيرٌ

003:029 Say, ‘Whether you hide what is in your hearts or disclose it, Allah knows it, and He knows whatever there is in the heavens and whatever there is in the Earth; and Allah has power over all things.’ۭ

٣_١٦٥         أَوَلَمَّآ أَصَٰبَتْكُم مُّصِيبَةٌۭ قَدْ أَصَبْتُم مِّثْلَيْهَا قُلْتُمْ أَنَّىٰ هَٰذَا ۖ قُلْ هُوَ مِنْ عِندِ أَنفُسِكُمْ ۗ إِنَّ ٱللَّهَ عَلَىٰ كُلِّ شَىْءٍۢ قَدِيرٌۭ

003:165 What, when an affliction visits you—while you have inflicted twice as much—do you say, ‘How is this?’! Say, ‘This is from your own souls.’ Indeed Allah has power over all things.

٣_١٨٩         وَلِلَّهِ مُلْكُ ٱلسَّمَٰوَٰتِ وَٱلْأَرْضِ ۗ وَٱللَّهُ عَلَىٰ كُلِّ شَىْءٍۢ قَدِيرٌ

003:189 To Allah belongs the kingdom of the heavens and the Earth, and Allah has power over all things.

٥_١٧  لَّقَدْ كَفَرَ ٱلَّذِينَ قَالُوٓا۟ إِنَّ ٱللَّهَ هُوَ ٱلْمَسِيحُ ٱبْنُ مَرْيَمَ ۚ قُلْ فَمَن يَمْلِكُ مِنَ ٱللَّهِ شَيْـًٔا إِنْ أَرَادَ أَن يُهْلِكَ ٱلْمَسِيحَ ٱبْنَ مَرْيَمَ وَأُمَّهُۥ وَمَن فِى ٱلْأَرْضِ جَمِيعًۭا ۗ وَلِلَّهِ مُلْكُ ٱلسَّمَٰوَٰتِ وَٱلْأَرْضِ وَمَا بَيْنَهُمَا ۚ يَخْلُقُ مَا يَشَآءُ ۚ وَٱللَّهُ عَلَىٰ كُلِّ شَىْءٍۢ قَدِيرٌۭ

005:017 They are certainly faithless who say, ‘Allah is the Messiah, son of Mary.’ Say, ‘Who can avail anything against Allah should He wish to destroy the Messiah, son of Mary, and his mother, and everyone upon the Earth?’ To Allah belongs the kingdom of the heavens and the Earth, and whatever is between them. He creates whatever He wishes, and Allah has power over all things.

٥_١٩  يَٰٓأَهْلَ ٱلْكِتَٰبِ قَدْ جَآءَكُمْ رَسُولُنَا يُبَيِّنُ لَكُمْ عَلَىٰ فَتْرَةٍۢ مِّنَ ٱلرُّسُلِ أَن تَقُولُوا۟ مَا جَآءَنَا مِنۢ بَشِيرٍۢ وَلَا نَذِيرٍۢ ۖ فَقَدْ جَآءَكُم بَشِيرٌۭ وَنَذِيرٌۭ ۗ وَٱللَّهُ عَلَىٰ كُلِّ شَىْءٍۢ قَدِيرٌۭ

005:019 O People of the Book! Certainly Our Apostle has come to you, clarifying [the Divine teachings] for you after a gap in [the appearance of] the apostles, lest you should say, ‘There did not come to us any bearer of good news nor any warner.’ Certainly, there has come to you a bearer of good news and a warner. And Allah has power over all things.

٥_٤٠  أَلَمْ تَعْلَمْ أَنَّ ٱللَّهَ لَهُۥ مُلْكُ ٱلسَّمَٰوَٰتِ وَٱلْأَرْضِ يُعَذِّبُ مَن يَشَآءُ وَيَغْفِرُ لِمَن يَشَآءُ ۗ وَٱللَّهُ عَلَىٰ كُلِّ شَىْءٍۢ قَدِيرٌۭ

005:040 Do you not know that to Allah belongs the kingdom of the heavens and the Earth? He punishes whomever He wishes, and forgives whomever He wishes, and Allah has power over all things.

٥_١٢٠         لِلَّهِ مُلْكُ ٱلسَّمَٰوَٰتِ وَٱلْأَرْضِ وَمَا فِيهِنَّ ۚ وَهُوَ عَلَىٰ كُلِّ شَىْءٍۢ قَدِيرٌۢ

005:120 To Allah belongs the kingdom of the heavens and the Earth and whatever there is in them, and He has power over all things

....and others

wasalam.

Edited by Muslim2010
Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Advanced Member
8 hours ago, Logic1234 said:

a person arguing that God even have the power to create another God, can have Son & wife. That person was calling himself a Muslim!!

I think that many people (including Muslims) make the mistake of seeing God as a person be it a very large, holy and powerful person. If God var a person of cause he could have a Son & wife, but God is not a person and his nature make it absurd to thinking of him with wives and children. Does God even have a gender? He can of cause create all the celestial beings he want, but none of them will be his equal or capable of being his partner. I guess you can say that all of creation is gods children, which would then apply to all of us, but that would be figuratively speaking and not in any literal or genetic sense of the word.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Advanced Member
16 hours ago, Ibn Al-Shahid said:

Allah can do everything that is شيء (a thing) he cannot do a non-thing (لا شيء). What is a non-thing?

Ok, So how you define "a thing"? 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You are posting as a guest. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

×
×
  • Create New...