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In the Name of God بسم الله
Cool

Difference between two رُوحُ الْقُدُسِ الرُّوحُ الْأَمِينُ

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رُوحُ الْقُدُسِ  - Means The Holy Spirit and 

الرُّوحُ الْأَمِينُ - means The Trustworthy Spirit. They both refer to Angel Gibraeil (عليه السلام). I also read that Ruh Al-Qudus may refer to a creature of God who is with the Imam(s). But I have no knowledge about this matter

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On 9/18/2019 at 10:10 PM, ahlulbaytkr said:

رُوحُ الْقُدُسِ  - Means The Holy Spirit and 

الرُّوحُ الْأَمِينُ - means The Trustworthy Spirit. They both refer to Angel Gibraeil (عليه السلام). I also read that Ruh Al-Qudus may refer to a creature of God who is with the Imam(s). But I have no knowledge about this matter

Salam, 

Thanks for sharing your views.

Lets see few verses of Qur'an & expand the discussions in light of these blessed verses:

Surah Al-Baqara, Verse 97:
قُلْ مَن كَانَ عَدُوًّا لِّجِبْرِيلَ فَإِنَّهُ نَزَّلَهُ عَلَىٰ قَلْبِكَ بِإِذْنِ اللَّهِ مُصَدِّقًا لِّمَا بَيْنَ يَدَيْهِ وَهُدًى وَبُشْرَىٰ لِلْمُؤْمِنِينَ

Say: Whoever is the enemy of Jibreel - for surely he revealed it to your heart by Allah's command, verifying that which is before it and guidance and good news for the believers.
(English - Shakir)

Surah Ash-Shuara, Verse 193:
نَزَلَ بِهِ الرُّوحُ الْأَمِينُ

The Faithful Spirit has descended with it,
(English - Shakir)

Surah Ash-Shuara, Verse 194:
عَلَىٰ قَلْبِكَ لِتَكُونَ مِنَ الْمُنذِرِينَ

Upon your heart that you may be of the warners
(English - Shakir)

Surah An-Nahl, Verse 102:
قُلْ نَزَّلَهُ رُوحُ الْقُدُسِ مِن رَّبِّكَ بِالْحَقِّ لِيُثَبِّتَ الَّذِينَ آمَنُوا وَهُدًى وَبُشْرَىٰ لِلْمُسْلِمِينَ

Say: The Holy spirit has revealed it from your Lord with the truth, that it may establish those who believe and as a guidance and good news for those who submit.
(English - Shakir)

From above verses, it seems as Jibra'il (عليه السلام) is the Ruhul Qudus & Ruhul Ameen.

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12 hours ago, Cool said:

@Jaane Rabb

Does Qur'an revealed all at once or it was revealed in stages? 

In reference to revelation to Muhammad (S):

[25:32] And those who disbelieve say, "Why was the Qur'an not revealed to him all at once?" Thus [it is] that We may strengthen thereby your heart. And We have spaced it distinctly.

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1 hour ago, Jaane Rabb said:

In reference to revelation to Muhammad (S):

[25:32] And those who disbelieve say, "Why was the Qur'an not revealed to him all at once?" Thus [it is] that We may strengthen thereby your heart. And We have spaced it distinctly.

How do you link this verse to the following verses:

Surah Ad-Dukhan, Verse 3:
إِنَّا أَنزَلْنَاهُ فِي لَيْلَةٍ مُّبَارَكَةٍ إِنَّا كُنَّا مُنذِرِينَ

Surely We revealed it on a blessed night surely We are ever warning--
(English - Shakir)

Surah Al-Qadr, Verse 1:
إِنَّا أَنزَلْنَاهُ فِي لَيْلَةِ الْقَدْرِ

Surely We revealed it on the grand night.
(English - Shakir)

Surah Al-Baqara, Verse 185:
شَهْرُ رَمَضَانَ الَّذِي أُنزِلَ فِيهِ الْقُرْآنُ هُدًى لِّلنَّاسِ وَبَيِّنَاتٍ مِّنَ الْهُدَىٰ وَالْفُرْقَانِ فَمَن شَهِدَ مِنكُمُ الشَّهْرَ فَلْيَصُمْهُ وَمَن كَانَ مَرِيضًا أَوْ عَلَىٰ سَفَرٍ فَعِدَّةٌ مِّنْ أَيَّامٍ أُخَرَ يُرِيدُ اللَّهُ بِكُمُ الْيُسْرَ وَلَا يُرِيدُ بِكُمُ الْعُسْرَ وَلِتُكْمِلُوا الْعِدَّةَ وَلِتُكَبِّرُوا اللَّهَ عَلَىٰ مَا هَدَاكُمْ وَلَعَلَّكُمْ تَشْكُرُونَ

The month of Ramazan is that in which the Qur'an was revealed, a guidance to men and clear proofs of the guidance and the distinction; therefore whoever of you is present in the month, he shall fast therein, and whoever is sick or upon a journey, then (he shall fast) a (like) number of other days; Allah desires ease for you, and He does not desire for you difficulty, and (He desires) that you should complete the number and that you should exalt the greatness of Allah for His having guided you and that you may give thanks.
(English - Shakir)

 

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3 hours ago, Cool said:

How do you link this verse to the following verses:

You're really clutching at straws here trying to prove Muhammad (S) had complete knowledge of the book considering there's a plethora of verses saying and suggesting otherwise.

None of your verses above say to whom revelation was made and in what quantity. We know Muhammad (S) wasn't the first to receive revelation, but that it was the angels/Gibrael.

None of your verses explicitly say Muhammad (S) received revelation in full and nor can they otherwise they will directly contradict 25:32.

Going back to 25:32. Not only does it explicitly acknowledge that revelation wasn't made to Muhammad in full, but it also gives a reason; to thereby strengthen his heart. Such is the weight of the Qur'an that a mountain would've trembled had the Qur'an been sent upon it (59:21).

Wallahu alam.

Edited by Jaane Rabb

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4 hours ago, Jaane Rabb said:

None of your verses above

I just need to warn you to please not to get effected by your personal anger. If you don't want to discuss anything, simply tell me and I will quit asking you the questions.

Is there anything like "my verses or your verses"?

4 hours ago, Jaane Rabb said:

None of your verses above say to whom revelation was made and in what quantity

To whom Qur'an was revealed prior to its revelation on the heart of Prophet (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم)? On angels? 

Quantity: The verses of chapter 44, clearly mentions the revelation of Qur'an as a whole

Surah Ad-Dukhan, Verse 2:
وَالْكِتَابِ الْمُبِينِ

I swear by the Book that makes manifest (the truth).
(English - Shakir)

Surah Ad-Dukhan, Verse 3:
إِنَّا أَنزَلْنَاهُ فِي لَيْلَةٍ مُّبَارَكَةٍ إِنَّا كُنَّا مُنذِرِينَ

Surely We revealed it on a blessed night surely We are ever warning--
(English - Shakir)

Surah Ad-Dukhan, Verse 4:
فِيهَا يُفْرَقُ كُلُّ أَمْرٍ حَكِيمٍ

Therein every wise affair is made distinct,
(English - Shakir)

So forget about questioning the quantity. Answer the question asked earlier by me:

"To whom Qur'an was revealed prior to its revelation on the heart of Prophet (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم)? On angels?"

4 hours ago, Jaane Rabb said:

None of your verses explicitly say Muhammad (S) received revelation in full and nor can they otherwise they will directly contradict 25:32.

Who actually then received the revelation in full as mentioned in chapter 44? First Heaven?

4 hours ago, Jaane Rabb said:

Going back to 25:32. Not only does it explicitly acknowledge that revelation wasn't made to Muhammad in full, but it also gives a reason; to thereby strengthen his heart.

Am I denying the gradual revelation of Qur'an? Am I questioning anything like the kuffar? 

Strengthen the heart of Prophet: We will discuss this matter after knowing the answers of above questions. 

 

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On 8/31/2019 at 12:44 PM, Logic1234 said:

:bismillah:

What is Qur'an? 

The verses/divine messages (Ayaat) recited & the reciter (Prophet (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم)) or simply a combination of revealed/collected verses or the verses & the place (heart) where they were revealed/preserved? 

For example, while referring to the verses, Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) has said:

تِلْكَ آيَاتُ اللّهِ نَتْلُوهَا عَلَيْكَ بِالْحَقِّ
2:252

And while referring to Qur'an as a whole, while Prophet (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم) just recited one single verse, Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) has mentioned it Qur'an:

إِنَّ هَـذَا الْقُرْآنَ يِهْدِي لِلَّتِي هِيَ أَقْوَمُ
17:9

وَلَقَدْ صَرَّفْنَا فِي هَـذَا الْقُرْآنِ لِيَذَّكَّرُواْ 
17:41

What is meant by the word "هَـذَا " (a masculine singular pronoun) while the Prophet (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم) has recited only one verse? 
Similarly the pronoun "ذَٰلِكَ" is used in the verse 2:3 which itself is a single verse but referring & pointing to a Kitab (ذَٰلِكَ الْكِتَابُ لَا رَيْبَ ۛ فِيهِ ۛ). 

Anyone please explain

@Jaane Rabb, @Cool

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@Logic1234 @Cool

I've just heard both those videos you guys linked. Glad YouTube has a playback speed option!

Starting with lecture 5. He tries to prove Muhammad's (S) prophethood since birth using what, the example of Isa as the main point. God knows how he was able extrapolate such a belief that because Isa was a Prophet from birth that this somehow proves Muhammad was as well. All the while he casually ignores the number of Quranic verses (as mentioned in the 'hadith rejectors' thread) suggesting otherwise. If its due to superiority then that itself hasn't been clearly established from the Qur'an either.

His other proofs were from hadith and naturally that's not an acceptable proof for me (and the fact they would contradict the verses). That's not to say (and as mentioned) that the Prophet didn't have any qualities in him as a person.

Then he talks about the 3 ways the Prophet receives revelation;

1. Allah speaks through a veil
2. Direct infusion into the heart *
3. Gibrael brings

* Here he mentions a hadith or two saying when direct infusion would be taking place, that it would show on the Prophet's face/body language as witnessed by companions because this type of method of revelation was difficult to receive.

Moving on to lecture 6. Totally disappointing. First he claims that the verse "we sent the Qur'an down" (97:1) means that the whole Qur'an was infused into the heart of the Prophet (speculative assertion as the verse says nothing of the sort), which took place in Ramadan.

Then he says the gradual revelation began from 27th rajab. Now, rather than discussing why Muhammad (S) received gradual revelation (despite having complete knowledge of the book already), he changed the focus on why mankind needed revelation to be gradual.

No. I want to know, why Muhammad (S) received gradual revelation despite supposedly already having complete knowledge of the book as claimed.

Also. Nakshawani contradicted himself a number of times. He said the whole Qur'an was infused into the Prophet on the night of Ramadan. This contradicts lecture 5, where he said companions (such as Imam Ali) witnessed the state of Muhammad when he'd receive an infusion. And another occasion where another companion asked what happens when he receives revelation and Prophet mentioned hearing a ringing before infusion. Meaning what, if the whole Qur'an had been infused into the Prophet already, why is Allah reinfusing in later periods!?

Another contradiction, that Allah infused whole Qur'an in Prophets heart yet Gibrael is bringing wahi into the Prophets heart again later (see verses posted in #3rd post).

The Qur'an is CLEAR:

[25:32] And those who disbelieve say, "Why was the Qur'an not revealed to him all at once?" Thus [it is] that We may strengthen thereby your heart. And We have spaced it distinctly.

Allah is clearly acknowledging the question of the disbelievers that the Qur'an hasn't been revealed to Muhammad (S) in full. So Nakshawani trying to prove that Allah had revealed it in full beforehand is him attributing lies and creating a contradiction. Nakshawani himself acknowledges this verse then straight after goes n says the Qur'an was revealed in full to the Prophet in the Night of Qadr. Astonishing!

Lastly, Nakshawani says that the other school of thought concocted hadith against the Prophet to lower his status so to allow the 3 caliphs to cover their mistakes n lapses.

But from my perspective and with all the Quranic verses posted here and in the other thread, I believe the Shia exaggerated the Prophet so to exaggerate the Ahlul Bayt. Because if Muhammad (S) didn't have complete knowledge of the book then how could they claim Imam Ali had it. That would be a problem. So they deny and argue that Muhammad (S) did have complete knowledge of the book.

And such is the problem with fitting the Qur'an with sectarian beliefs.

Wallahu Alam.

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3 hours ago, Jaane Rabb said:

No. I want to know, why Muhammad (S) received gradual revelation despite supposedly already having complete knowledge of the book as claimed.

Salam, 

You never even bothered to answer my questions asked earlier.

Anyway, the prerevealed existence of Qur'an is mentioned in Qur'an. It is also mentioned in Qur'an that none can touch it (can get access to it) except the Mutahharoon. So these Mutahharoon even have access to the pre-revealed reality of Qur'an which is in kitabin maknoon.

Surah Al-Waqia, Verse 77:
إِنَّهُ لَقُرْآنٌ كَرِيمٌ

Most surely it is an honored Qur'an,
(English - Shakir)

Surah Al-Waqia, Verse 78:
فِي كِتَابٍ مَّكْنُونٍ

In a book that is protected
(English - Shakir)

Surah Al-Waqia, Verse 79:
لَّا يَمَسُّهُ إِلَّا الْمُطَهَّرُونَ

None shall touch it save the purified ones.
(English - Shakir)

Who are the Mutahharoon according to Qur'an? 

Surah Al-Ahzab, Verse 33:
وَقَرْنَ فِي بُيُوتِكُنَّ وَلَا تَبَرَّجْنَ تَبَرُّجَ الْجَاهِلِيَّةِ الْأُولَىٰ وَأَقِمْنَ الصَّلَاةَ وَآتِينَ الزَّكَاةَ وَأَطِعْنَ اللَّهَ وَرَسُولَهُ إِنَّمَا يُرِيدُ اللَّهُ لِيُذْهِبَ عَنكُمُ الرِّجْسَ أَهْلَ الْبَيْتِ وَيُطَهِّرَكُمْ تَطْهِيرًا

And stay in your houses and do not display your finery like the displaying of the ignorance of yore; and keep up prayer, and pay the poor-rate, and obey Allah and His Apostle. Allah only desires to keep away the uncleanness from you, O people of the House! and to purify you a (thorough) purifying.
(English - Shakir)

A gradual revelation is done in order to present the answers and arguments when & where their time comes as well as gradual reformation of the society. For instance the verse:

Surah Al-Isra, Verse 85:
وَيَسْأَلُونَكَ عَنِ الرُّوحِ قُلِ الرُّوحُ مِنْ أَمْرِ رَبِّي وَمَا أُوتِيتُم مِّنَ الْعِلْمِ إِلَّا قَلِيلًا

And they ask you about the soul. Say: The soul is one of the commands of my Lord, and you are not given aught of knowledge but a little.
(English - Shakir)

demanding a question, there is a time for it when to present this verse. Likewise is the case of following verse:

Surah Al-Kahf, Verse 9:
أَمْ حَسِبْتَ أَنَّ أَصْحَابَ الْكَهْفِ وَالرَّقِيمِ كَانُوا مِنْ آيَاتِنَا عَجَبًا

Or, do you think that the Fellows of the Cave and the Inscription were of Our wonderful signs?
(English - Shakir)

And so on.

Wassalam

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On 9/22/2019 at 6:53 AM, Cool said:

Salam, 

You never even bothered to answer my questions asked earlier.

Who are the Mutahharoon according to Qur'an? 

A gradual revelation is done in order to present the answers and arguments when & where their time comes as well as gradual reformation of the society.

Wassalaam,

Brother, I bothered to watch two lectures and write a lengthy response. Surely that counts for something?

I will look into Mutahharoon later but this discussion of purified ones, infallibility, etc is deviating from the main subject. I don't see how arguments/beliefs derived from assumption can supersede clear verses.

As for your last statement quoted. I agree and that's another reason why I believe the Prophet (S) didn't have complete knowledge of the book. Questions were asked of him, and he received the answers from Allah via revelation.

Anyway, I think we've discussed this topic enough for now. I will now take my leave to concentrate elsewhere.

Fi Amanillah.

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42 minutes ago, Jaane Rabb said:

will look into Mutahharoon later but this discussion of purified ones, infallibility, etc is deviating from the main subject. I

:) I can understand your position after this argument.

Allah Hafiz

 

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On 9/20/2019 at 6:42 PM, Jaane Rabb said:

In reference to revelation to Muhammad (S):

[25:32] And those who disbelieve say, "Why was the Qur'an not revealed to him all at once?" Thus [it is] that We may strengthen thereby your heart. And We have spaced it distinctly.

@Ashvazdanghe - Brother, you're free to disagree with my opinions, but I don't think you should disagree with verses of the Qur'an. I'd love to hear why you disagreed with this post?

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On 9/22/2019 at 7:53 AM, Cool said:

فِي كِتَابٍ مَّكْنُونٍ

In a book that is protected

This refers to the Lawh Al-Mahfudh. Lawh Al-Mahfudh consists of a lot of things which includes all the holy revealed books, and so, also The Qur'an

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1 hour ago, ahlulbaytkr said:

This refers to the Lawh Al-Mahfudh. Lawh Al-Mahfudh consists of a lot of things which includes all the holy revealed books, and so, also The Qur'an

Yes Sir, Lawh Al Mahfudh or Kitabin Maknoon, and it has one more name I.e., Ummil Kitab.

Surah Az-Zukhruf, Verse 4:
وَإِنَّهُ فِي أُمِّ الْكِتَابِ لَدَيْنَا لَعَلِيٌّ حَكِيمٌ

And surely it is in the original of the Book with Us, truly elevated, full of wisdom.
(English - Shakir)

 

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