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In the Name of God بسم الله
Hussain Haider Bilgrami

Is it ok to do lanat on the first 3 caliphs?

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On 9/16/2019 at 8:04 AM, Ashvazdanghe said:

you provided narration that says they didn't accept testimony of  a companion of Imam Sadiq (عليه السلام) by calling him Rafidi that at that time the courts were under control of Ummayid & Abbasid not Zaidis , you even don't read what you bring as evidence or don't think about it.

One day Ammār al-Duhanī testified in the court of Ibn Abʾi Layla, the judge said: O Ammār! We know you, you are a rāfiḍhī, your testimony is not valid. You shall go. As he was shaking and crying, Ammār stood up to leave. Ibn Abʾi Layla said: Ammār! You are a knowledgeable man, if you are unhappy with this name, quit this sect and you shall be our brother. Ammār then said, “No, it is not as you think, my tears were for me and you, I cried for myself because you ascribed a credit to me I don’t deserve, you called me a Rafidi, whereas al-Imām al-Ṣādiq output-onlinepngtools.png.781c65f14945b7d6d8f83dc70fd649fd.png says: the first to be known by this title, were the magicians of Pharaoh, once they realized the truth of Moses’ divine miracle, they refused to obey the command and religion of Pharaoh, they joined Moses and accepted all the hardship and torture. Then, Pharaoh called them rāfiḍha (those who refuse) because they had refused his religion. So rāfiḍhī is the one refusing all that is unpleasant by God. But I cried for you; because you dared to take the best title as the worst label, so how are you going to reply when you are questioned by your Lord about such serious crime on the day of Judgment?”

Upon hearing about this story of Ammār, al-Imām al-Ṣādiq output-onlinepngtools.png.781c65f14945b7d6d8f83dc70fd649fd.png said, “If Ammār had sins greater than heavens and Earth, they all would be forgiven because of this saying of his, and this saying will increase his reward to the point that each bit of his good deeds is a thousand times greater than the whole universe.”

Majlisī, Biḥār al-Anwār, vol. 65, p. 156.

A man came to al-Imām Jʾafar al-Ṣādiq saying that someone had warned him against becoming a rāfiḍhī, and the Imām replied,

“By Allah, this name which Allah has granted you is excellent, as long as you follow our teaching and do not attribute lies to us.”

عَنْهُ، عَنْ عَلِيٍّ بْنِ أَسْبَاطَ، عَنْ عُيَيْنَةَ بَيَّاعَ الْقَصَبِ، عَنْ أَبِي عَبْدِ اللَّهِ output-onlinepngtools.png.781c65f14945b7d6d8f83dc70fd649fd.png قَالَ: وَاللَّهِ لَنِعْمَ الْاِسْم الَّذِي مَنَحَكُمُ اللَّهُ مَا دُمْتُمْ تَأْخُذُونَ بِقَوْلِنَا وَلَا تَكْذِبُونَ عَلَيْنَا قَالَ: وَقَالَ لِي أَبُو عَبْدِ اللَّهِ output-onlinepngtools.png.781c65f14945b7d6d8f83dc70fd649fd.png هَذَا الْقَوْلَ أَنِّي كُنْتُ خَبَّرْتُهُ أَنَّ رَجُلًا قَالَ لِي: إِيَّاكَ أَنْ تَكُونَ رَافِضِيًّا

al-Maḥāsin, vol. 1, p. 157.

On 9/16/2019 at 8:04 AM, Ashvazdanghe said:

your statement also not new we have our viewpoint & you have your viewpoint & nobody forces us to follow the other one.

Oh, really? Nobody forces, huh? That’s why the followers of Shayḵḫ Yāsser al-Ḥabīb are imprisoned/executed/kidnapped for no reason other than following him?

Edited by Simon the Canaanite

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14 minutes ago, Simon the Canaanite said:

Another invention that you just created out of thin air.

you repeated my words but I don't have time to translate whole of  hadith

14 minutes ago, Simon the Canaanite said:

Oh, really? Nobody forces, huh? That’s why the followers of Shayḵḫ Yāsser al-Ḥabīb are imprisoned/executed/kidnapped for no reason other than following him?

like as always baseless accusations without evidence.

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Just now, Ashvazdanghe said:

you repeated my words but I don't have time to translate whole of  hadith

I repeated your words? You were saying that the term “had two definitions,” and I was pointing out that this is false.

3 minutes ago, Ashvazdanghe said:

like as always baseless accusations without evidence.

Where is Sayyid Muḥammad Alī al-Mūsawī? Why did he disappear completely from Lebanon?

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On 9/15/2019 at 4:08 AM, Mortadakerim said:

Yes, the hadith can be interpreted in various ways. This is not clear cut. Otherwise all Sunnis would have converted, since this hadith is very famous

If This believe is so fundemental why did Allah not just make it clear from the Qur’an.

why the hidden meanings?

You see how hard it is to convince?

and you over an over again try to confirm the painful chastisment of Sunnis. What is the point? 

Just get us name of 12 guided caliphs from Sunni Books..

how hard it is for opposite faction to prove 12 guided caliphs.. All Sunni stops at Imam Hasan (عليه السلام) as rightly guided caliph. If We accept these 5 caliphs according to Sunni traditions and accept Imam Mehdi (عليه السلام) as last guided one, where are rest 6 guided caliphs? 

How Sunni and their books are going to convince us about these forgotten 6 caliphs??? 

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3 hours ago, Simon the Canaanite said:

Where is Sayyid Muḥammad Alī al-Mūsawī? Why did he disappear completely from Lebanon?

I never heard or saw anything about something with this name only Israeli media spreaded false stories about a person with this name that completely unacceptable by any sane Shia except people like as you :missing::liar::ko: & the other one is one of founders of Hizbullah that martyred by zionistst

Shiite cleric calls to revoke Nasrallah’s Lebanese citizenship for his Iran ties

Muhammad Ali Al-Husseini accuses Hezbollah leader of ‘clear collaboration’ with a foreign country, says Tehran wants to ‘divide and infiltrate’ Lebanon

By TOI STAFF19 March 2018, 8:44 am  3

Lebanese cleric Sayyed Muhammad Ali al-Husseini (Facebook image)

Lebanese cleric Sayyed Muhammad Ali al-Husseini (Facebook image)

A Lebanese Shiite cleric is urging Lebanon to strip Hezbollah leader Hassan Nasrallah of his citizenship over his “clear collaboration” and allegiance to Iran.

https://www.timesofisrael.com/shiite-cleric-calls-for-revoking-nasrallahs-citizenship-over-Iran-ties/

Abbas al-Musawi

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia [wikipedia page]
 
Abbas al Moussawi
عباس الموسوي

Hezbollah fighter Seyyed Abbas Mousavi with Hezbollah cleric Hassan Nasrallah.jpeg

Abbas al-Mousawi right.
 
Secretary-General of Hezbollah
In office
1984 – 16 February 1992
Preceded by Subhi al-Tufayli
Succeeded by Sayyed Hassan Nasrallah
Personal details
Born 26 October 1952
Al-Nabi ShaythLebanon
Died 16 February 1992 (aged 39)
Nabatieh Governorate, Lebanon
Nationality Lebanese
Occupation Cleric

Abbas al Moussawi (/əˈbɑːs əl msɑːw/Arabicعباس الموسوي‎; 26 October 1952 – 16 February 1992) was an influential Lebanese Shia cleric, co-founder and Secretary General of Hezbollah. He was killed by the Israel Defense Forces in 1992.

 

https://wikivisually.com/wiki/Abbas_al-Musawi

3 hours ago, Simon the Canaanite said:

I repeated your words? You were saying that the term “had two definitions,” and I was pointing out that this is false.

the translation of hadith is available for public in many sites but you avoid facts.

Edited by Ashvazdanghe

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5 hours ago, haidermpr said:

Just get us name of 12 guided caliphs from Sunni Books..

how hard it is for opposite faction to prove 12 guided caliphs.. All Sunni stops at Imam Hasan (عليه السلام) as rightly guided caliph. If We accept these 5 caliphs according to Sunni traditions and accept Imam Mehdi (عليه السلام) as last guided one, where are rest 6 guided caliphs? 

How Sunni and their books are going to convince us about these forgotten 6 caliphs??? 

Good question. I am not Sunni, but both me and Sunnis can’t answer this question.

However, how could one know it is our Imams [as] the hadith is referring to:

- Our Imams were most of the times silent, while they were guides. Even if they get killed aren’t they [as] the guides? The Prophet (sawas) would as return wounded from preaching Islam. And Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) would never allow him to die. So why did our Imams not act like this? Isn’t Allah with them?

- Imam Mahdi (عليه السلام) has been in occultation for the last 1000 years. Isn’t he the guide?

- The Qur’an is a very complex, but clear book (surah hud). Why did Allah not mention

I don’t criticize them, but I ask questions based on logic, since the matter is not clear (for me atleast)

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I agree that (without a doubt) Abu Bakr and Umar basically paved the way for people like Mu'aviya and Yazid to do whatever they wanted to, however, it is not respectful to insult them in public (tell me I'm wrong?)

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1 hour ago, Hussain Haider Bilgrami said:

I agree that (without a doubt) Abu Bakr and Umar basically paved the way for people like Mu'aviya and Yazid to do whatever they wanted to, however, it is not respectful to insult them in public (tell me I'm wrong?)

I don't see why you would insult anyone at all, public or private. Condemning them for their actions, yes of course. Insulting? I don't see why we would insult anyone.

Wallahu a'lam 

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14 hours ago, Mortadakerim said:

Good question. I am not Sunni, but both me and Sunnis can’t answer this question.

However, how could one know it is our Imams [as] the hadith is referring to:

- Our Imams were most of the times silent, while they were guides. Even if they get killed aren’t they [as] the guides? The Prophet (sawas) would as return wounded from preaching Islam. And Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) would never allow him to die. So why did our Imams not act like this? Isn’t Allah with them?

- Imam Mahdi (عليه السلام) has been in occultation for the last 1000 years. Isn’t he the guide?

- The Qur’an is a very complex, but clear book (surah hud). Why did Allah not mention

I don’t criticize them, but I ask questions based on logic, since the matter is not clear (for me atleast)

No, Imam (عليه السلام) were never silent, they continuously taught true Islamic teachings to people but Ummah was not ready to listen them. The Ummah even didn't listen Imam Ali (عليه السلام) though on numerous occasions Prophet (saww) introduced him as his Wasi (successor) in very clear terms. Prophet (saww) ask Ummah to follow Qur'an and Ahlebait (عليه السلام) but Ummah believed only in Qur'an and left Ahlebait (عليه السلام).

In Court of first caliph, daughter of Prophet Fatima Zahra (sa) presented all proofs from Qur'an regarding her inheritance but was rejected based on fabricated hadith and Ummah kept silent.  

Maula Ali (عليه السلام) to Imam Hasan Askari (عليه السلام), all Imam (عليه السلام) tried their best to present true teachings of Islam but Ummah didn't listen any of them. Prophet (saww) tried his best to preach Islamic values to Makkan but they were not ready to accept the Truth and tried to assassinate Prophet (saww) and he migrated to Medina. Why he didn't start war during Makkan Period? Why he started war when he moved to Medina?  

Qur'an is very clear and there is no doubt about that why there is no clarity on first obligatory act Salat in Qur'an? Why Qur'an didn't mention exact method of performing Salat? Different Muslim are performing their salat according to their Jurists. Why it is so? 

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Quote

why not send salawat each time u wish like lanating

which has more reward or benefit for you? lanat or salawat?

Salawat has more reward and is positive to your own soul and wellbeing.

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Shia will continue to fail because they do not understand that these Ahadith are within context. Let us not forget that the Imams were political geniuses that knew how to deal with people. In a time where western powers prefer proxy wars so that they would appear without sin in front of the world they let you fight amongst yourselves and kill each other. It is time that we unite for the sake of Islam and for the sake of not causing Muslim bloodshed. We have a current enemy on our doors, leave Abu Bakr and Omar for now, Allah is dealing with with their doings. We need to focus on the trouble that's being caused against Islam.

No wonder the youth are becoming atheists and leaving the religion. Who would want to be in a religion where there are 73 sects fighting with each other over something that does not affect us now. We're being affected by bigger things.

Wake up, the west is invading your ideology and ruining your communities, religion and culture. 

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43 minutes ago, Ibn Al-Shahid said:

Shia will continue to fail because they do not understand that these Ahadith are within context. Let us not forget that the Imams were political geniuses that knew how to deal with people. In a time where western powers prefer proxy wars so that they would appear without sin in front of the world they let you fight amongst yourselves and kill each other. It is time that we unite for the sake of Islam and for the sake of not causing Muslim bloodshed. We have a current enemy on our doors, leave Abu Bakr and Omar for now, Allah is dealing with with their doings. We need to focus on the trouble that's being caused against Islam.

No wonder the youth are becoming atheists and leaving the religion. Who would want to be in a religion where there are 73 sects fighting with each other over something that does not affect us now. We're being affected by bigger things.

Wake up, the west is invading your ideology and ruining your communities, religion and culture. 

Though I partially agree with what  you have stated, however, you cannot ultimately blame the west. There are fanaticism within Muslim communities who will keep us divided. 

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1 hour ago, Ibn Al-Shahid said:

Who would want to be in a religion where there are 73 sects fighting with each other over something that does not affect us now. We're being affected by bigger things.

This is a very strong point. People who join Islam don’t even know how to pray, because of all the disputes

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