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In the Name of God بسم الله
Hussain Haider Bilgrami

Is it ok to do lanat on the first 3 caliphs?

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Though, I'd just like to add that I have at times cursed Umar and Abu Bakr (in private of course) but to be honest I curse Mu'aviya and Yazid in public. Cursing Umar and Abu Bakr in public is very wrong in my opinion. Imagine if Sunnis cursed our Imams (عليه السلام) in public. We'd be as angry as they probably are when they hear us cursing their Caliphs.

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It's important to understand a concept first before throwing around terminology.

Bara'ah means disassociation, and in the context of our madhab it specifically refers to disassociating from those who oppose Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى), His messenger ((صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم)) and the Ahlul Bayt (عليه السلام).

One can easily do this in a rational manner, with well established references to the Qur'an, narrations and Islamic history, in a clear and open manner. 

If you feel that what you are calling tabarrah cannot be practiced in public then you might have misunderstood what tabarrah is in the first place. 

Wallahu a'lam 

 

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16 hours ago, 3wliya_maryam said:

@Simon the Canaanite My brain cells have officially disappeared from the amount of narrations and quotes you copy and paste on threads

I’ll take that as a compliment..? And no, I don’t just “copy and paste,” most of these are written and translated by me.

On 9/15/2019 at 12:10 AM, Mortadakerim said:

If it is hadith thaqalayn, then zaidis are also cursed, while even they believe in some sort of wilayah and love Ahlul Bayt. Yet, they are cursed

By the way, Zāidis themselves do tākfir of us Imāmiyyah.

Their “Imam,” Yaḥyā bin ʾal-Ḥusāyn, ʾal-Hādi ila ʾal-Ḥāqq says in his book, ʾal-Aḥkām fi ʾal-Ḥalāl wāl-Ḥarām, volume 1, page 454-455.

حزب الإمامية الرافضة للحق والمحقين، الطاعنة على أولياء الله المجاهدين الذين أمروا بالمعروف الأكبر ونهوا عن التظالم والمنكر، وقول هؤلاء الإمامية الذين عطلوا الجهاد وأظهروا المنكر في البلاد والعباد، وأمنوا الظالمين من التغيير عليهم، ومكنوهم من الحكم فيهم وصاروا لهم خولا وجعلوا أموال الله بينهم دولا، وكفروا من جاهدهم، وعلى ارتكاب المنكر ناصبهم، وقول هذا الحزب الضال، مما لا يلتفت إليه من المقال لما هم عليه من الكفر والايغال، والقول بالكذب والفسوق والمحال، فهم على الله ورسوله في كل أمر كاذبون ولهما في كل أفعالهم مخالفون، قد جاهروهما بالعصيان وتمردوا عليهما بالبغي والطغيان وأظهروا المنكر والفجور، وأباحوا علانية الفواحش والشرور، وناصبوا الآمرين بالحسنات المنكرين للمنكر والشرارات الأئمة الهادين من أهل بيت الرسول المطهرين، وهتكوا يالهم الويل الحرمات وأماطوا الصالحات وحرضوا على أمانة الحق وإظهار البغي والفسق، وضادوا الكتاب وجانبوا الصواب وأباحوا الفروج، وولدوا الكذب والهروج، وفيهم ما حدثني أبي وعماي محمد والحسن، عن أبيهم القاسم بن إبراهيم، عن أبيه، عن جده إبراهيم بن الحسن، عن أبيه، عن جده الحسن بن علي بن أبي طالب، عن أبيهم علي بن أبي طالب، عن النبي صلى الله عليه وعلى آله وسلم، أنه قال: يا علي يكون في آخر الزمان قوم لهم نبز يعرفون به يقال: لهم الرافضة فإن أدركتهم فاقتلهم قتلهم الله فإنهم مشركون

  1. Calls the Imāmiyyah a deviant sect.
  2. Does tākfir of them.
  3. Narrates a fake tradition that calls for them to be killed, and calls them polytheists.
18 hours ago, Hussain Haider Bilgrami said:

Though, I'd just like to add that I have at times cursed Umar and Abu Bakr (in private of course) but to be honest I curse Mu'aviya and Yazid in public. Cursing Umar and Abu Bakr in public is very wrong in my opinion. Imagine if Sunnis cursed our Imams (عليه السلام) in public. We'd be as angry as they probably are when they hear us cursing their Caliphs.

Anyway... Back to the original point...

In Biḥār ʿal-Anwār, volume 53, page 31.

Imam Ali said: “May Allah curse Ibn ʿal-Ḵḫāṭṭab, if it weren’t for him, no one would’ve committed fornication, except the wretched [of men and women...]”

8G2y5ud.jpg

Edited by Simon the Canaanite

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1 hour ago, Simon the Canaanite said:

By the way, Zāidis themselves do tākfir of us Imāmiyyah.

Their “Imam,” Yaḥyā bin ʾal-Ḥusāyn, ʾal-Hādi ila ʾal-Ḥāqq says in his book, ʾal-Aḥkām fi ʾal-Ḥalāl wāl-Ḥarām, volume 1, page 454-455.

Salam it was just his opinion & currently no one follows his idea & you just spread hate speech of shirazi cult against them  like as Yase Al Habib that his word only acceptable by his fans not all Shias & now majority of Zaidis are from Jarudi branch thatis very near to 12ers that don't agree with his statement. 

Zaidis accounts state the term Rafida was a term used by Zayd ibn Ali on those who rejected him in his last hours for his refusal to condemn the first two Caliphs of the Muslim world, Abu Bakr and Umar.[18] Zayd bitterly scolds the "rejectors" (Rafidha) who deserted him, an appellation used by Salafis to refer to Twelver Shi'ites to this day.[19]

A group of their leaders assembled in his (Zayd's presence) and said: "May God have mercy on you! What do you have to say on the matter of Abu Bakr and Umar?" Zayd said, "I have not heard anyone in my family renouncing them both nor saying anything but good about them...when they were entrusted with government they behaved justly with the people and acted according to the Qur'an and the Sunnah"[20]

Twelver Shia references to Zayd

While not one of the 12 Imams embraced by the Twelver denomination and current largest branch of Shi'ite Islam, Zayd ibn Ali features in historical accounts within Twelver literature in a positive light.

In Twelver Shia accounts, Imam Ali al-Ridha narrated how his grandfather Ja'far al-Sadiq also supported Zayd ibn Ali's struggle:

he was one of the scholars from the Household of Muhammad and got angry for the sake of the Honorable the Exalted God. He fought with the enemies of God until he got killed in His path. My father Musa ibn Ja’far narrated that he had heard his father Ja’far ibn Muhammad say, "May God bless my uncle Zayd... He consulted with me about his uprising and I told him, "O my uncle! Do this if you are pleased with being killed and your corpse being hung up from the gallows in the al-Konasa neighborhood." After Zayd left, As-Sadiq said, "Woe be to those who hear his call but do not help him!".
— Uyūn Akhbār al-Riḍā,[21] p. 466

Jafar al-Sadiq's love for Zayd ibn Ali was so immense, he broke down and cried upon reading the letter informing him of his death and proclaimed:

From God we are and to Him is our return. I ask God for my reward in this calamity. He was a really good uncle. My uncle was a man for our world and for our Hereafter. I swear by God that my uncle is a martyr just like the martyrs who fought along with God’s Prophet or Ali or Al-Hassan or Al-Hussein
— Uyūn akhbār al-Riḍā,[21] p. 472

The Rassid state was founded under Jarudiyya thought;[6] however, increasing interactions with Hanafi and Shafi'I schools of Sunni Islam led to a shift to Sulaimaniyyah thought, especially among the Hadawi sub-sect.

Zaydi fiqh is similar to the Hanafi school of Sunni Islamic jurisprudence.[6] Abu Hanifa, a Sunni madhab shaykh, was favorable and even donated towards the Zaydi cause.[7] Zaidis dismiss religious dissimulation (taqiyya)

https://www.wikizeroo.org/index.php?q=aHR0cHM6Ly9lbi53aWtpcGVkaWEub3JnL3dpa2kvWmFpZGl5eWFo

 the Jarudi position, unambiguously condemning Abu Bakr and ‘Umar as usurpers.

https://iis.ac.United Kingdom/encyclopaedia-articles/zaydiyya

1 hour ago, Simon the Canaanite said:

In Biḥār ʿal-Anwār, volume 53, page 31.

in foot note no2 says in Kafi v5 p 448 that exact word is "if Umar ..... & that is no proof on cursing him 

Edited by Ashvazdanghe

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44 minutes ago, Ashvazdanghe said:

Salam it was just his opinion & currently no one follows his idea & you just spread hate speech of shirazi cult against them

That’s one of their Imams, not a normal ʿālim. That’s like saying, that the Shiʾa don’t follow X tradition narrated from ʿal-Imām ʿal-Ṣādiq, because it’s “outdated.” Ridiculous.

44 minutes ago, Ashvazdanghe said:

like as Yase Al Habib that his word only acceptable by his fans not all Shias.

Well, why don’t you try to say that to yourself? You always brand the regime as the “representative and defender of the Shiʾa in the world,” when you know that the majority of Shiʾa in Iraq (for example) dislike the regime...

44 minutes ago, Ashvazdanghe said:

Zaidis accounts state the term Rafida was a term used by Zayd ibn Ali on those who rejected him in his last hours for his refusal to condemn the first two Caliphs of the Muslim world, Abu Bakr and Umar.[18] Zayd bitterly scolds the "rejectors" (Rafidha) who deserted him, an appellation used by Salafis to refer to Twelver Shi'ites to this day.[19]

A group of their leaders assembled in his (Zayd's presence) and said: "May God have mercy on you! What do you have to say on the matter of Abu Bakr and Umar?" Zayd said, "I have not heard anyone in my family renouncing them both nor saying anything but good about them...when they were entrusted with government they behaved justly with the people and acted according to the Qur'an and the Sunnah"[20]

Twelver Shia references to Zayd

While not one of the 12 Imams embraced by the Twelver denomination and current largest branch of Shi'ite Islam, Zayd ibn Ali features in historical accounts within Twelver literature in a positive light.

In Twelver Shia accounts, Imam Ali al-Ridha narrated how his grandfather Ja'far al-Sadiq also supported Zayd ibn Ali's struggle:

he was one of the scholars from the Household of Muhammad and got angry for the sake of the Honorable the Exalted God. He fought with the enemies of God until he got killed in His path. My father Musa ibn Ja’far narrated that he had heard his father Ja’far ibn Muhammad say, "May God bless my uncle Zayd... He consulted with me about his uprising and I told him, "O my uncle! Do this if you are pleased with being killed and your corpse being hung up from the gallows in the al-Konasa neighborhood." After Zayd left, As-Sadiq said, "Woe be to those who hear his call but do not help him!".
— Uyūn Akhbār al-Riḍā,[21] p. 466

So, you’re trying to make seem true, that the rāfiḍha are bad people, right?

Well, first of all.

In Biḥār ʿal-Anwār, volume 65, page 97.

ʿal-Imam ʿal-Bāqir said (three times): “I am from the rāfiḍha.”

q6jTexV.jpg

Also, in Biḥār ʿal-Anwār, volume 65, page 156

قِيلَ لِلصَّادِقِ عليه السَّلام : إِنَّ عَمَّاراً الدُّهْنِيَّ شَهِدَ الْيَوْمَ عِنْدَ ابْنِ أَبِي لَيْلَى قَاضِيَ الْكُوفَةِ بِشَهَادَةٍ فَقَالَ لَهُ الْقَاضِي : قُمْ يَا عَمَّارُ، فَقَدْ عَرَفْنَاكَ لَا تُقْبَلُ شَهَادَتُكَ، لِأَنَّكَ رَافِضِيٌّ فَقَامَ عَمَّارٌ وَقَدِ ارْتَعَدَتْ فَرَائِصُهُ وَاسْتَفْرَغَهُ الْبُكَاءُ فَقَالَ لَهُ ابْنُ أَبِي لَيْلَى : أَنْتَ رَجُلٌ مِنْ أَهْلِ الْعِلْمِ وَالْحَدِيثِ، إِنْ كَانَ يَسُوؤُكَ أَنْ يُقَالَ لَكَ رَافِضِيٌّ، فَتَبَرَّأْ مِنَ الرَّفْضِ، فَأَنْتَ مِنْ إِخْوَانِنَا فَقَالَ لَهُ عَمَّارٌ : يَا هَذَا، مَا ذَهَبْتَ وَاللَّهِ حَيْثُ ذَهَبْتَ، وَلَكِنْ بَكَيْتُ عَلَيْكَ وَ عَلَيَّ أَمَّا بُكَائِي عَلَى نَفْسِي، فَإِنَّكَ نَسَبْتَنِي إِلَى رُتْبَةٍ شَرِيفَةٍ لَسْتُ مِنْ أَهْلِهَا، زَعَمْتَ أَنِّي رَافِضِيٌّ، وَيْحَكَ لَقَدْ حَدَّثَنِي الصَّادِقُ عليه السَّلام : أَنَّ أَوَّلَ مَنْ سُمِّيَ الرَّفَضَةَ السَّحَرَةُ الَّذِينَ لَمَّا شَاهَدُوا آيَةَ مُوسَى فِي عَصَاهُ آمَنُوا بِهِ وَ اتَّبَعُوهُ وَرَفَضُوا أَمْرَ فِرْعَوْنَ، وَاسْتَسْلَمُوا لِكُلِّ مَا نَزَلَ بِهِمْ، فَسَمَّاهُمْ فِرْعَوْنُ الرَّافِضَةَ لِمَا رَفَضُوا دِينَهُ، فَالرَّافِضِيُّ كُلُّ مَنْ رَفَضَ جَمِيعَ مَا كَرِهَ اللَّهُ، وَفَعَلَ كُلَّ مَا أَمَرَهُ اللَّهُ، فَأَيْنَ فِي هَذَا الزَّمَانِ مِثْلُ هَذِهِ وَ إِنَّمَا بَكَيْتُ عَلَى نَفْسِي، خَشِيتُ أَنْ يَطَّلِعَ اللَّهُ عَزَّ وَجَلَّ عَلَى قَلْبِي وَقَدْ تَلَقَّبْتُ هَذَا الِاسْمَ الشَّرِيفَ عَلَى نَفْسِي، فَيُعَاتِبَنِي رَبِّي عَزَّ وَجَلَّ وَ يَقُولَ يَا عَمَّارُ أَكُنْتَ رَافِضاً لِلْأَبَاطِيلِ، عَامِلًا بِالطَّاعَاتِ كَمَا قَالَ لَكَ، فَيَكُونَ ذَلِكَ بِي مُقَصِّراً فِي الدَّرَجَاتِ إِنْ سَامَحَنِي، وَمُوجِباً لِشَدِيدِ الْعِقَابِ عَلَيَّ إِنْ نَاقَشَنِي، إِلَّا أَنْ يَتَدَارَكَنِي مَوَالِيَّ بِشَفَاعَتِهِمْ وَأَمَّا بُكَائِي عَلَيْكَ، فَلِعِظَمِ كَذِبِكَ فِي تَسْمِيَتِي بِغَيْرِ اسْمِي، وَشَفَقَتِي الشَّدِيدَةِ عَلَيْكَ مِنْ عَذَابِ اللَّهِ إِنْ صَرَفْتَ أَشْرَفَ الْأَسْمَاءِ إِلَيَّ، وَ إِنْ جَعَلْتَهُ مِنْ أَرْذَلِهَا، كَيْفَ يَصْبِرُ بَدَنُكَ عَلَى عَذَابِ كَلِمَتِكَ هَذِهِ ؟ فَقَالَ الصَّادِقُ عليه السَّلام : لَوْ أَنَّ عَلَى عَمَّارٍ مِنَ الذُّنُوبِ مَا هُوَ أَعْظَمُ مِنَ السَّمَاوَاتِ وَالْأَرَضِينَ لَمُحِيَتْ عَنْهُ بِهَذِهِ الْكَلِمَاتِ، وَإِنَّهَا لَتَزِيدُ فِي حَسَنَاتِهِ عِنْدَ رَبِّهِ عَزَّ وَجَلَّ حَتَّى يُجْعَلَ كُلُّ خَرْدَلَةٍ مِنْهَا أَعْظَمَ مِنَ الدُّنْيَا أَلْفَ مَرَّةٍ

iBFEs24.jpg

Secondly, regarding the traditions you posted that praise Zaid: there are other traditions that dispraise him. Here’s one.

وعن أبان، قال: أخبرني الأحول أن زيد بن علي بن الحسين عليهما السلام بعث إليه وهو مستخف قال: فأتيته فقال لي: يا أبا جعفر ما تقول إن طرقك طارق منا أتخرج معه؟ قال: فقلت له: إن كان أباك أو أخاك، خرجت معه قال: فقال لي: فأنا أريد أن أخرج أجاهد هؤلاء القوم فأخرج معي قال: قلت: لا ما أفعل جعلت فداك، قال: فقال لي: أترغب بنفسك عني؟ قال: قلت له: إنما هي نفس واحدة فإن كان لله في الأرض حجة فالمتخلف عنك ناج والخارج معك هالك وإن لا تكن لله حجة في الأرض فالمتخلف عنك والخارج معك سواء. قال: فقال لي: يا أبا جعفر كنت أجلس مع أبي على الخوان فيلقمني البضعة السمينة ويبرد لي اللقمة الحارة حتى تبرد، شفقة علي، ولم يشفق علي من حر النار، إذا أخبرك بالدين ولم يخبرني به؟ فقلت له: جعلت فداك شفقته عليك من حر النار لم يخبرك، خاف عليك: أن لا تقبله فتدخل النار، وأخبرني أنا، فإن قبلت نجوت، وإن لم أقبل لم يبال أن أدخل النار، ثم قلت له: جعلت فداك أنتم أفضل أم الأنبياء؟ قال: بل الأنبياء قلت: يقول يعقوب ليوسف: يا بني لا تقصص رؤياك على إخوتك فيكيدوا لك كيدا، لم لم يخبرهم حتى كانوا لا يكيدونه ولكن كتمهم ذلك فكذا أبوك كتمك لأنه خافعليك، قال: فقال: أما والله لئن قلت ذلك لقد حدثني صاحبك بالمدينة أني أقتل وأصلب بالكناسة وأن عنده لصحيفة فيها قتلي وصلبي. فحججت فحدثت أبا عبد الله عليه السلام بمقالة زيد وما قلت له، فقال: لي: أخذته من بين يديه ومن خلفه وعن يمينه وعن شماله ومن فوق رأسه ومن تحت قدميه، ولم تترك له مسلكا يسلكه

Why don’t you also show these, huh? Or are they against your agenda? As per ʾal-iḥtiyāṭ ʾal-wujūbi, tawāqquf should be made in the matter of Zāyd, since there are aḥādith that praise and dispraise him. We don’t know for sure whether he’s in heaven or hell.

Cherry picking, however, is not nice.

44 minutes ago, Ashvazdanghe said:

in foot note no2 says in Kafi v5 p 448 that exact word is "if Umar ..... & that is no proof on cursing him

So, you’re denying the fact that a certain ḥādith can have different alfāḍh, or are you saying that ʾal-Allāmah ʾal-Mājlesi is a jāhil that doesn’t know such things?

Edited by Simon the Canaanite

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3 minutes ago, Simon the Canaanite said:

So, you’re trying to make seem true, that the rāfiḍha are bad people, right?

Well, first of all.

In Biḥār ʿal-Anwār, volume 65, page 97.

ʿal-Imam ʿal-Bāqir said (three times): “I am from the rāfiḍha.”

Salam he said it in response to enemies of Shias like as Ummayid & Abbasid followers not Zaidis & Imam Sadiq (عليه السلام) didn't point to Zaidi definition 

 

4 minutes ago, Simon the Canaanite said:

So, you’re denying the fact that a certain ḥādith can have different alfāḍh, or are you saying that ʾal-Allāmah ʾal-Mājlesi is a jāhil that doesn’t know such things?

he bringes all type of Hadith in Bihar Al anwar from all sources that some of them maybe polluted by radicals & Gulats as a refernce to all hadith from all sources we must examine every narration in Biahar al Anwar with unbiased view & consider that all narrations in Bihar are not Allamah Majlisi viewpoint but he colllected alll type of Hadiths for preserving all of them that we must judge with our tools but you are every time ready to do Takfir on any sect with playing with words & mixing multiple topics that don't have relation to each other like as definition of Rafidi from enemies of Shias & zaidis that have no relation to each other.

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10 minutes ago, Ashvazdanghe said:

Salam he said it in response to enemies of Shias like as Ummayid & Abbasid followers not Zaidis & Imam Sadiq (عليه السلام) didn't point to Zaidi definition

Bring me one scholar that says this. You keep inventing interpretations yourself that have zero value for me whatsoever.

11 minutes ago, Ashvazdanghe said:

he bringes all type of Hadith in Bihar Al anwar from all sources that some of them maybe polluted by radicals & Gulats as a refernce to all hadith from all sources we must examine every narration in Biahar al Anwar with unbiased view & consider that all narrations in Bihar are not Allamah Majlisi viewpoint but he colllected alll type of Hadiths for preserving all of them that we must judge with our tools but you are every time ready to do Takfir on any sect with playing with words & mixing multiple topics that don't have relation to each other like as definition of Rafidi from enemies of Shias & zaidis that have no relation to each other.

I’ve heard this over and over. Nothing new.

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11 minutes ago, Simon the Canaanite said:

Bring me one scholar that says this. You keep inventing interpretations yourself that have zero value for me whatsoever.

you provided narration that says they didn't accept testimony of  a companion of Imam Sadiq (عليه السلام) by calling him Rafidi that at that time the courts were under control of Ummayid & Abbasid not Zaidis , you even don't read what you bring as evidence or don't think about it.

 

15 minutes ago, Simon the Canaanite said:

’ve heard this over and over. Nothing new.

your statement also not new we have our viewpoint & you have your viewpoint & nobody forces us to follow the other one.

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2 hours ago, Simon the Canaanite said:

I don’t just “copy and paste,” most of these are written and translated by me.

Jazakallah for your efforts. Your posts with textual references are valuable. But on a minor (and off-topic) note, and I'm just a nit-picky person when it comes to these things, your English transcriptions of the Arabic text is a tad inaccurate and it'd be better if you just translated the Arabic into plain English.

For example:

1 hour ago, Simon the Canaanite said:

ʿal-Imām ʿal-Ṣādiq  should be al-Imām al-Ṣādiq (the ' or ` is usually used for ع such as in `uyūn).

tawāqquf should be tawaqquf (ā is used for long ا such as in the word mukhābarāt)

ḥādith --> ḥadīth (plural aḥādīth).

al-Aḥkām fi ʾal-Ḥalāl wāl-Ḥarām --> al-Aḥkām fī al-Ḥalāl wal-Ḥarām

Zāidis --> Zaidīs

tākfir --> takfīr

Maybe take a look at this: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Romanization_of_Arabic

Apologies for the off-topic post.

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so who actually really really thinks that by their uttering a few words of "lanat" that it will actually have any type of impact on reality?

the problem is how someone's ego is attached to these 3 or any attachment of the ego, for example to a nationality. When you say something negative about those 3, or lets something racist, you are hurting someone's ego. These things have nothing to do with reality. It's funny how people question and discuss this issue while they have no clue what their own status is in eyes of Allah.

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On 9/16/2019 at 10:25 AM, Ali~J said:

You can say a similar thing for the first 3 "caliphs".... 

FB_IMG_1568613262433.jpg

I agree Allah will forgive him for that.

However this is the same guy that said by cursing the 3, it may result in the killing of some innocent Shia... I can provide the clip for that if you like. 

but its all good, if there is some unneeded hatred and some Shias get killed, some Sunnis get killed, God will take care of it...  -_+

Edited by khamosh21

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8 minutes ago, khamosh21 said:

However this is the same guy that said by cursing the 3, it may result in the killing of some innocent Shia... I can provide the clip for that if you like. 

Shias are going to be killed either way though... 

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Just now, Ali~J said:

Shias are going to be killed either way though... 

Thats only if they are weak and don't know how to defend themselves, for example pakistanis are totally fine with people shooting them in front of their houses or mosques... if thts the idea of shahadat they wish to romanticize, you can't do much  with that... lambs to slaughter, enjoy getting killed

those who do know how to defend themselves like Hizbullah, Iran, Hashd AlShabi, the Zainibiyoin, the Houthis, they may lose many in the line of defense but they save a lot more, and they are the only resistance against the enemy, if there is another one, please show it to me

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14 minutes ago, khamosh21 said:

However this is the same guy that said by cursing the 3, it may result in the killing of some innocent Shia... I can provide the clip for that if you like. 

He also said, there's a time and place for everything. Relate all three statement and you'll understand. 

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2 minutes ago, Sirius_Bright said:

He also said, there's a time and place for everything. Relate all three statement and you'll understand. 

Right... this is not the time and place for it.

These are the most childish topics that plague the most backward minded Shias of our time. 

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There should be respect in the Muslim Ummah to be honest. Just as the Sunnis should respect us and not takfir us, we should not insult their role models

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On 9/16/2019 at 6:20 AM, Simon the Canaanite said:

I’ll take that as a compliment..? And no, I don’t just “copy and paste,” most of these are written and translated by me.

 

I respect your efforts in translating these long texts with the intention of guiding people.

And I want to ask you what your view is of Zayd (رضي الله عنه)

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1 minute ago, Sirius_Bright said:

Or the most important Furu-e-deen that people are denying and should be practiced in right time and right place. 

I agree in practicing it by actually standing up against the Umar, Abu Bakr, Yazid of our time. 

I don't believe in running to Western countries to save my life. I don't believe in doing taqiyya in the Middle East so I can have cushy luxurious life. I don't believe in doing year round ziarats and arbaeen walks, doing 40 day ziarat ashuras, so I can secure some job or some other ridiculous worldly dua.

While you curse the past, why forget the present?

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36 minutes ago, khamosh21 said:

Thats only if they are weak and don't know how to defend themselves, for example pakistanis are totally fine with people shooting them in front of their houses or mosques... if thts the idea of shahadat they wish to romanticize, you can't do much  with that... lambs to slaughter, enjoy getting killed

those who do know how to defend themselves like Hizbullah, Iran, Hashd AlShabi, the Zainibiyoin, the Houthis, they may lose many in the line of defense but they save a lot more, and they are the only resistance against the enemy, if there is another one, please show it to me

:sign_war:

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3 minutes ago, Ali~J said:

:sign_war:

what do you with an enemy that has been wanting to kill you for 1400 years?

self defense.

starting war is not the answer, which is exactly what cursing and insulting potential future believers* will do!

Edit: I consider Sunni brothers potential helpers in the cause of Islam, many become Shia, and I guarantee your cursing isn't helping. This is why Saudi  and United Kingdom funds people that like cursing them.

Edited by khamosh21

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2 minutes ago, khamosh21 said:

Umar, Abu Bakr, Yazid of our time. 

While you stand up against Abu Bakar, Umar, Yazid of this time, do not forget the actual Abu Bakar, Umar, Yazid, which are roots of present day oppression. No one is asking you to stand on street and chant la'anah but altogether denying condemnation and curse on enemies of Ahlul Bayt (عليهم اسلام) is akin to forsaking wajib Furu-e-deen.

The topic is very much needed especially when few people looking to appease their dear brothers are in denial of a wajibat. 

9 minutes ago, khamosh21 said:

I don't believe in running to Western countries to save my life. I don't believe in doing taqiyya in the Middle East so I can have cushy luxurious life. I don't believe in doing year round ziarats and arbaeen walks, doing 40 day ziarat ashuras, so I can secure some job or some other ridiculous worldly dua.

Your believing and not believing in something doesn't change the Islamic Principles and foundations. 

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On 9/17/2019 at 12:58 PM, Sirius_Bright said:

While you stand up against Abu Bakar, Umar, Yazid of this time, do not forget the actual Abu Bakar, Umar, Yazid, which are roots of present day oppression. No one is asking you to stand on street and chant la'anah but altogether denying condemnation and curse on enemies of Ahlul Bayt (عليهم اسلام) is akin to forsaking wajib Furu-e-deen.

The topic is very much needed especially when few people looking to appease their dear brothers are in denial of a wajibat. 

I don't deny it all. I have yet to meet a Shia who denies the crimes of those 3.

I encourage you to visit Iran during Fatimiyya days. I once visited this place in Qom, they had recreated the entire scene of Omar, Abu Bakr burning down the door... they had actors playing them... I don't think ppl understand Iran at all.

even though I personally found it extreme, just telling u brother, just saying lanat doesn't do anything, it is all practical and amali... ziayarat ashura is amali... on one hand you say I'm at war with those Imam Hussain is at war with, then you pray for a job where your boss maybe gay or an alcoholic... how does that work?

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On 9/14/2019 at 11:04 PM, Hussain Haider Bilgrami said:

I hear many people (Mostly followers of Yasser Habib) cursing the first 3 Caliphs: Abu Bakr, Umar and Usman. Do you think it is ok to do lanat on these people? Give me a reason why. I personally believe it is fine to criticise them and maybe even insult them in private but it is very wrong to do lanat on them in public or in private.

I think there is no any youth who does not know the exact answer of this question and what is the rulings of Maraja and interpretation of their rulings. I consider these questions widening divisions and brewing hatred among Muslims. 

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9 minutes ago, Sirius_Bright said:

 

Your believing and not believing in something doesn't change the Islamic Principles and foundations. 

The problem is you"ve been conditioned to think this is Islam, because since a kid you've had a guy on the pulpit telling you this.

Ironically you (ppl in general) criticize these very mullahs for being frauds and destroying our communities, for charging money etc... yet their brainwashing is ever effective.

Going to ziarat is not to achieve worldly goals, this can easily be done through hardwork (as proven by the West)

Edited by khamosh21

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1 hour ago, khamosh21 said:

so who actually really really thinks that by their uttering a few words of "lanat" that it will actually have any type of impact on reality?

"Inna Rabbi la sami ad-dua"

These are the divine words and I do believe on it. When I see in history, cruel person killing the chosen ones, guided ones, I pray to God to remove His mercy (which has encircled everything) from that very criminal. This is a dua and it will never go unattended. At least it will be heard.

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1 minute ago, khamosh21 said:

I have yet to meet a Shia who denies the crimes of those 3.

Again, you haven't come across any doesn't indicate there aren't any. There are many who directly/indirectly deny their crimes. 

3 minutes ago, khamosh21 said:

on one hand you say I'm at war with those Imam Hussain is at war with, then you pray for a job where your boss maybe gay or an alcoholic...

Where does this come from? What I have to do with my boss. I go to work and get my rizq. Whatever he does outside work is not my business.

There are times when you can try and bring such sinner to the right path. 

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On 9/17/2019 at 1:08 PM, Sirius_Bright said:

Where does this come from? What I have to do with my boss. I go to work and get my rizq. Whatever he does outside work is not my business.

There are times when you can try and bring such sinner to the right path. 

It's outside my scope to explain this here, may you be successful inshallah, iltemasay dua.

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2 minutes ago, khamosh21 said:

The problem is you"ve been conditioned to think this is Islam, because since a kid you've had a guy on the pulpit telling you this.

Why would you assume such things. 

3 minutes ago, khamosh21 said:

Ironically you (ppl in general) criticize these very mullahs for being frauds and destroying our communities, for charging money etc... yet their brainwashing is ever effective.

lol. I legit don't know how to answer this accusation. 

3 minutes ago, khamosh21 said:

Going to ziarat is not to achieve worldly goals, this can easily be done through hardwork (as proven by the West)

Well, these holy shrines are the place where your haajaat are fulfilled. So nothing wrong if one goes there and ask for his difficulties and wishes. You can sit in the west and do hard work. Let other Shias have worldly and spiritual benefits. 

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1 hour ago, Mortadakerim said:

And I want to ask you what your view is of Zayd (رضي الله عنه)

Tawaqquf. Don’t love or hate him, because there are traditions that praise and dispraise him (madḥ and ḏhamm). So, we don’t know for sure if he’s a good/bad person.

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1 hour ago, khamosh21 said:

starting war is not the answer, which is exactly what cursing and insulting potential future believers* will do!

This is 2019 people cannot start a war or attack you just because they don't like something you say... Lol... 

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8 hours ago, Ali~J said:

This is 2019 people cannot start a war or attack you just because they don't like something you say... Lol... 

agreed, no one actually really cares about these things anymore... as I stated earlier, uttering simple words with zero action and living comfortable lives makes no difference to anyone... like a child playing or throwing a tantrum

specially once you grow up and have your own kids you realize how incredibly disfunctional our parents and families have become. no enemy needs to really need to do anything, most of us are self destructing anyway. 

 

Edited by khamosh21

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