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In the Name of God بسم الله
RepentantServant

Who has a higher status in the eyes of God

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19 hours ago, aaaz1618 said:

So Iblis rebelled and other angels rebelled, except the Qur'an only mentions Iblis rebelling. For example, if Iblis was given the chance to hide under the 'throne', would Allah have let them? The angels clearly rebelled the same but decided to hide rather than face Allah's punishment. 

It's just strange and significant something like this doesn't feature in the Qur'an, because if anything we should know

Salam angles didn't rebel but they just judged wrongly about Prophet Adam (عليه السلام) & his descendants from their previous experience that seen other creatures befor that like as humans caused bloodshed on Earth  but Iblis (la) was silent but he rebeled when saw superiority of Prophet Adam (عليه السلام) & his descendants to past creatures 7 lost his hope for being Caliph of Allah on Earth that was promised before that Allah(صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم) will put his best creation as caliph on Earth.

18 hours ago, Jaane Rabb said:

Next, they will tell you that Allah only made Hell for the the enemies of Wilayat-e-Ali.

I also don't know how one can take religion from a book compiled in 1100AH~ especially when many of the ahadith in it are chainless and sourced from unknown books. It has also attracted criticism from some scholars:

it said in Shia narration that if all creatures were accepting Wilayat of Imam Ali (عليه السلام) ,Allah wouldn't create the hell & Bihar is a refernce book to all type of Hadiths that must be examined by Qur'an & teaching of Ahlul Bayt that we don't take religion from it like as so called Sahih books of Sunnis without examining it.

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On 9/12/2019 at 3:35 AM, RepentantServant said:

Who has a higher status in the eyes of God, an Imam of Ahlul Bayt, or a Prophet of God & why?   And by Prophet, I mean all Prophets other than Rasool Allah. 

The most God conscious to speak generally 

For Prophet and Imams Allah knows best 

Edited by Noor Taleb

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On 9/15/2019 at 12:08 PM, aaaz1618 said:

Now, now. That's not what the Qur'an says it? The fish swallowed him when he was thrown overboard, he was swallowed because he was blameworthy for not changing the people's mindsets he was entrusted with. Had he not have been praiseworthy of Allah then Allah would never have set him free until the end of time. Nowhere at all is the wilayah of Ali mentioned as a reason why Jonas, peace be upon him, was swallowed or freed by the fish.

A verse can withhold hundreds of interpretations/meanings...

Imam Ali is reported to have said:

لَا تُخَاصِمْهُمْ بِالقُرآن؛ فَإِنَّ القُرْآنَ حَمَّالُ أَوْجُهٍ، ذُو وُجُوهٍ، تَقُولُ وَيَقُولُونَ، وَلَكِنْ حَاجِجْهُمْ بِالسُّنَّةِ؛ فَإِنَّهُمْ لَنْ يَجِدُوا عَنْهَا مَحِيصًا

22 hours ago, Jaane Rabb said:

Next, they will tell you that Allah only made Hell for the the enemies of Wilayat-e-Ali.

With all due respect, and honesty, the way you speak makes you seem like a non-Shiʾa, and the logic you’re using makes it seem so as well.

So, I am not going to waste much time with you, sorry.

23 hours ago, Jaane Rabb said:

I also don't know how one can take religion from a book compiled in 1100AH~ especially when many of the ahadith in it are chainless and sourced from unknown books. It has also attracted criticism from some scholars:

al-Allāmah al-Mājlesi spent all of his life authoring and collecting traditions, I don’t think a person who doesn’t even know the Arabic language is more knowledgeable than him.

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On 9/12/2019 at 5:35 AM, RepentantServant said:

Who has a higher status in the eyes of God, an Imam of Ahlul Bayt, or a Prophet of God & why?

Ask this question from the "eyes of God". 

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1 hour ago, Simon the Canaanite said:

A verse can withhold hundreds of interpretations/meanings...

That pretty much throws out the possibility of verifying hadith with the Qur'an - The Criterion, al-Furqan - when you can claim that the hadith is instructing of an inner, deeper, completely different meaning than that of the verse. I would say you're very brave to accept such narrations especially since they have been included in a mix bag of truth and falsehood.

Quote

With all due respect, and honesty, the way you speak makes you seem like a non-Shiʾa, and the logic you’re using makes it seem so as well.

So, I am not going to waste much time with you, sorry.

I am an ex-Twelver and not part of any sect. Just a Muslim and a lame one at that.

As for wasting time with me. No problem brother. You do as you please as there is no obligation for you to engage in dialogue with me.

Quote

al-Allāmah al-Mājlesi spent all of his life authoring and collecting traditions, I don’t think a person who doesn’t even know the Arabic language is more knowledgeable than him.

Other scholars commented and refuted some of Majlesi's views and strange practises, like citing hadith sourced from unknown books saying: "I saw it in an old book...". I'm sure you know better about this than I and I'm not too bothered about discussing it further. If you're happy taking narrations from a book published post 1100AH~ without verifying the hadith, then good luck you.

The Truth is not exclusive to the Arabic language. One can be Arab and yet be very ignorant, as would be the case with the Ahlus Sunnah in your view.

Knowledge is one thing, wisdom is another.

Fi Amanillah

Edited by Jaane Rabb

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On 9/13/2019 at 4:07 AM, Jaane Rabb said:

As for the logical comment, I mean logically they can be lower in status than other Prophets also. Especially when Allah commands Muhammad (S) a number of times in the Qur'an to "follow the way of Abraham, inclining toward truth, he was not an associater..." and "Allah took Abraham as an intimate friend". Allah shows much regard for Abraham to the extent that Muhammad (S) is being told to follow Abraham's way

Salamun Alaikum,

Surah Aal-e-Imran, Verse 81:
وَإِذْ أَخَذَ اللَّهُ مِيثَاقَ النَّبِيِّينَ لَمَا آتَيْتُكُم مِّن كِتَابٍ وَحِكْمَةٍ ثُمَّ جَاءَكُمْ رَسُولٌ مُّصَدِّقٌ لِّمَا مَعَكُمْ لَتُؤْمِنُنَّ بِهِ وَلَتَنصُرُنَّهُ قَالَ أَأَقْرَرْتُمْ وَأَخَذْتُمْ عَلَىٰ ذَٰلِكُمْ إِصْرِي قَالُوا أَقْرَرْنَا قَالَ فَاشْهَدُوا وَأَنَا مَعَكُم مِّنَ الشَّاهِدِينَ

And when Allah made a covenant through the Prophets: Certainly what I have given you of Book and wisdom-- then an apostle comes to you verifying that which is with you, you must believe in him, and you must aid him. He said: Do you affirm and accept My compact in this (matter)? They said: We do affirm. He said: Then bear witness, and I (too) am of the bearers of witness with you.
(English - Shakir)

And there is another verse:

وَكَذَلِكَ جَعَلْنَاكُمْ أُمَّةً وَسَطًا لِّتَكُونُواْ شُهَدَاء عَلَى النَّاسِ وَيَكُونَ الرَّسُولُ عَلَيْكُمْ شَهِيدًا 

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10 hours ago, Jaane Rabb said:

not part of any sect. Just a Muslim and a lame one at that.

 

8 hours ago, aaaz1618 said:

People like you and me who don't belong to a clique don't have a chance of smelling paradise, didn't they tell you? 

You see here, since both of you “don’t belong to a sect,” as you claim, it’s impossible to debate with you, because you:

  1. Don’t follow the books I follow.
  2. Don’t accept them as sources.
  3. Only follow “the Holy Book,” which is impossible to debate with.

And just as a matter of fact, the people that use the excuse of, “bring it to me from the Holy Book” in debates are the biggest jokes in the circles of knowledge.

 

Another fact, is that it’s also impossible to “not belong to a sect,” since there are many matters that you have to return to jurists in, such as: laws, engagement, marriage, etc.

So, I don’t buy it.

Moses output-onlinepngtools.png.781c65f14945b7d6d8f83dc70fd649fd.png told ʾal-Ḵḫiḍhr:

“You will find me, if God wills, patient, and I will not disobey you in [any] order.” (18:69)

ʾal-Ḵḫiḍhr said (in another verse):

“This is parting between me and you. I will inform you of the interpretation of that about which you could not have patience.” (18:78)

And ʾal-Ḵḫiḍhr, as stated by many scholars, is not a Prophet.

قَالَ مُوسَى لِوَصِيِّهِ يُوشَعَ: إِنَّ اللَّهَ أَمَرَنِي أَنْ أَتَّبِعَ رَجُلًا عِنْدَ مُلْتَقَى الْبَحْرَيْنِ وَأَتَعَلَّمَ مِنْهُ

10 hours ago, Jaane Rabb said:

The Truth is not exclusive to the Arabic language. One can be Arab and yet be very ignorant, as would be the case with the Ahlus Sunnah in your view.

This is not a game. You have to know the language of the matter you’re debating about.

Edited by Simon the Canaanite

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2 hours ago, Simon the Canaanite said:

So, I don’t buy it.

So long as we can all sleep at night with a clear conscience and absolute clarity and firmness in what we believe, it doesn't really matter who buys it and who doesn't.

...And I think a sound night's sleep is something we can all want for one another.

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