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In the Name of God بسم الله
Haji 2003

Tunisia & Iran comparison - resilience & decay of ulema

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Interesting paper:

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Ghozzi, K. The Study of Resilience and Decay in Ulema Groups: Tunisia and Iran as an Example. Sociology of Religion. 2002, 63:3 317-334

He makes the following observation:

Quote

In order to test the explanatory power of my argument, I apply it to the different historic trajecto¡ experienced by two major ulema institutions in the modem history of the Muslim world, namely the Tunisian ulema institution, Zeitouna, which was easily dismantled by the Tunisian govemment in 1958, and the Iranian ulema institution which, following a violent standoff with the Pahlavi rule, ended up victorious and inherited the Iranian state in 1979.

I argue that while the easy defeat of Zeitouna resulted to a large extent from its historic lack of consensus, institutional autonomy, and charisma, the victory of its Iranian counterpart resuked primarily from its relative accumulation of these same capitals. My comparison of Tunisia to Iran in terms of resilience and decay of their ulema institutions is justified by the similarities and differences they exhibit. First, in both societies, the ulema faced authoritarian and highly cen- tralized govemments that dealt with them as holders of a competitive world view and sought to lessen their control over education; abolish theŸ history old monopoly over the judiciary; totally or partially confiscate their endowments; discourage of ridicule their public celebration of religious holidays; and jailed, persecuted, exiled, of forced into silence the most non-conformist members among them. Second, in each of the two societies, the distance that traditionally separated the religious sphere of the ulema from the political sphere of the govemment has been largely determined by two different traditions of political jurisprudence. 

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Fmr . Tunisian  president : Gulf countries led by "Midget-state" UAE are interfering in our Affairs

Tunisian cleric praised Europeans toward Islam  ,calls on Tunisia to purge the shiites

 

Edited by Ashvazdanghe

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Salam although UAE & KSA are allies but in hidden they are struggling with each other like as previous Qatar-KSA alliance that at the end Qatar & KSA turned against each other & Qatar stopped funding radical groups in Syria & allied with Iran that know UAE & KSA are struggling in south of Yemen with each other also UAE is turning to Iran slowly. 

Edited by Ashvazdanghe

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On 9/9/2019 at 10:14 AM, Mohammadi_follower said:

Tunisia is a country where now a Muslim woman could marry a kafir, polygamy is forbidden, an homosexual was running as a president, ancient tunisian president said openly that he didnt care about Islamic laws and so on. 

Tunisia is really the exemple of what Muslim countries must never be.

There is nothing wrong with Muslim women marrying non Muslims. They are adults and able to make their own decisions.

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20 minutes ago, exshia2004 said:

There is nothing wrong with Muslim women marrying non Muslims. They are adults and able to make their own decisions.

Also nothing wrong with siblings getting married, as long as they are adults and able to make their own decisions, right? :shifty:

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3 minutes ago, starlight said:

Also nothing wrong with siblings getting married, as long as they are adults and able to make their own decisions, right? :shifty:

this happens in tunisia?

Basically tunisia is like turkey, am I right?

Edited by AkhiraisReal

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6 minutes ago, AkhiraisReal said:

this happens in tunisia?

Basically tunisia is like turkey, am I right?

I don't know. I was replying to the user above about adults being allowed to marry whoever they wanted.

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35 minutes ago, starlight said:

Also nothing wrong with siblings getting married, as long as they are adults and able to make their own decisions, right? :shifty:

The basis for not allowing Muslim women to marry non Muslims  is because of religious prohibitions. I stated that they are adults capable of deciding who they want to marry in this case.This is not a valid reason for prohibiting inter religious marriages in cases involving Muslim women in comparison to incestuous marriages which significantly increase chances of genetic disorders in offspring and also often rises questions of grooming/manipulation by the older relative.

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8 minutes ago, exshia2004 said:

This is not a valid reason for prohibiting inter religious marriages in cases involving Muslim women in comparison to incestuous marriages which significantly increase chances of genetic disorders in offspring 

There is also a significantly raised risk of genetic defects when increasing maternal age. There is a whole list of risk factors for genetic disorders, so this alone isn't a good enough reason for me. And I said marriage not kids. Two siblings can chose to get married and not have kids. What's wrong with that if we go by your argument - adults making their own life decisions?

12 minutes ago, exshia2004 said:

rises questions of grooming/manipulation by the older relative.

There is no older relative here. I gave the examples of siblings. 

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2 hours ago, exshia2004 said:

There is nothing wrong with Muslim women marrying non Muslims. They are adults and able to make their own decisions.

Salam so there is no problem that women marry with Shias because wahabist & radicla slafis also put Shias in non Muslim range.

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3 hours ago, exshia2004 said:

There is nothing wrong with Muslim women marrying non Muslims. They are adults and able to make their own decisions.

If a Muslim woman marries a kafir she will basically be constantly sinning. Same could be say for Muslim men who don't marry a Muslim woman or an ahl hul Kitab woman but a polytheist. 

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