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In the Name of God بسم الله
Ummat Mohammed

Nahj El Balagha Sermon 127

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Are you talking about this sermon (link given below)?

https://www.al-Islam.org/nahjul-balagha-part-1-sermons/sermon-127-if-you-refuse-stop-claiming

If so then can you mention which is the part you need explanation for?

I may be of any help in that case, please.

wasalam

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Yes, thus is the correct sermon, hank you for your response.

The part I need clarification on is which are the two catagories of people who will be ruined?

Belong to the majority and don't divide,.

Kill them even if they are under the headband of mine.

Who are the two arbitrators?

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I believe the two catagories of Muslims who will be ruined are the Shia who love Ali so much and the Wahabies who hate Ali so much.

Now Imam Ali clearly demands the Muslims to belong to the majority,  "who are the sunnah wal jama3a."

Now we know why there are so much killing now between wahabies and Shias 

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3 hours ago, Ummat Mohammed said:

I believe the two catagories of Muslims who will be ruined are the Shia who love Ali so much and the Wahabies who hate Ali so much.

Now Imam Ali clearly demands the Muslims to belong to the majority,  "who are the sunnah wal jama3a."

Now we know why there are so much killing now between wahabies and Shias 

You are mistaken my brother. We love Imam Ali (عليه السلام) up to the extent Allah (عزّ وجلّ), Our Prophet (PBUHHP) and our Imams have explained us. If you really are the one who neither exceed nor fall behind in the love of Imam Ali (عليه السلام) then tell me why you people:

1. Say that Prophet (PBUHHP) left this world without leaving a Khalifah while in your own Sahih Bukhari it is written that there will be 12 khalifas and all from Qureish. Who are your 12 khalifas?

2. Hazrat Abu Bakar and Hazrat Umer accepted Hazrat Ali (عليه السلام) as Imam on Ghadeer and went back on to their promises and Hazrat Abu Bakar saying Hazrat Umer that you be Khalifah and Hazrat Umer saying Hazrat Abu Bakar that you be Khalifah both confused and putting each other infront so that if there be civil disturbance the head of leader be cutt off and other can do Tobah.

3. Your three Khalifahs often consulted Imam Ali (عليه السلام) and thus accepting that they were incapable of making decisions and guiding people. On one occasion Hazrat Abu Bakar said: "If I do a mistake then guide me to truth".

4. Hazrat Abu Bakar rejected Hadith of Prophet by confiscating Garden of Fadak from Syeda Zahra (عليه السلام)

And, there are still many issues which prove that your Maktab reduces the position of Ahlebait (عليه السلام) and therefore not justified. We do not say that you fall in second group but historical evidences does. As for Jannah and hell, Allah (عزّ وجلّ) is the judge and we are told by our Imams to hold you dear as we hold our brothers dear.

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2 hours ago, Ummat Mohammed said:

Can we please focus on the subject here please. I want an explanation of sermon 127, do you have another explanation please.

They will tell you that this is talking about nasibis and nusayris. I disagree with this notion. I believe the current twelver Shia are looped into this damnation as some of them focus more on Imam Ali (عليه السلام) than they do Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) and Rasool Allah (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم). Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) and Muhammad (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم) are only uttered in adhan and salah in Shia centers. Outside of that you will find no mention of them. Imam Ali (عليه السلام) is definitely talking about such group in this sermon. I am a Shia myself saying this. Truth has no bias.

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Thank you my brother for your honesty. I pray for all Muslims to unite soon.

Anger and pride is making the Muslims divide and fight, disobeying Allah 3azawagal and his Prophet and Imam Ali (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم)

May Allah guide all Muslims

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3 hours ago, Ummat Mohammed said:

Can we please focus on the subject here please. I want an explanation of sermon 127, do you have another explanation please.

Those who say that Imam Ali (عليه السلام) is Allah are the Ghulaat or those who say that Imam Ali (عليه السلام) is above Prophet are Ghulaat and have exceeded beyond limits and those who reduces the position of Ahlebait (عليه السلام) below Ashab have reduced their position. 

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On 9/8/2019 at 2:21 AM, Ummat Mohammed said:

The part I need clarification on is which are the two catagories of people who will be ruined?

Belong to the majority and don't divide,.

 

On 9/11/2019 at 10:48 AM, Ummat Mohammed said:

I believe the two catagories of Muslims who will be ruined are the Shia who love Ali so much and the Wahabies who hate Ali so much.

Now Imam Ali clearly demands the Muslims to belong to the majority,  "who are the sunnah wal jama3a."

1. Then two types of people in the light of other hadith It is considered as those who love so much Imam Ali that consider him as God. Secondly those who hate Imam Ali as or fought Imam Ali in battles. Your interpretation of Shia and Wahhabi principle is certainly illogical

 2. The khwarij addressed in this sermon deliberately took the path against the majority of the Muslims who were followers of Imam Ali (عليه السلام) at that time. The hadith can be seen (from Kunz ul ummal) in which the majority is clarified by Imam Ali (عليه السلام) as his followers instead of the term Sunna wal jama devised by ummayad who hated Imam Ali (عليه السلام) 

wasalam

Edited by Muslim2010

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The following tradition is further added:

Imam Ali peace be upon him gave us a thorough definition for the term Jammah. Al Mutaqi Al Hindi, a prominent Sunni scholar, in Kanzu Al Umal vol 16 page 184 said that Imam Ali peace be upon him was asked:

“Who are the people of Jama’a ( congregation, flock or assembly)? Who are the people of disunity and dissension? Who are the people of Sunna (traditions of the Prophet)? And who are the people of innovation”?

Imam Ali peace be upon him replied: “Now that you asked, do store in your mind what I advise you! You must not ask anyone else after I inform you! As for the people of Jama’a (congregation or assembly), they include me and whoever follows me despite their little number (Our Path). That has been confirmed as the Truth by Allah’s command and his Prophet peace be upon him and his family. As for the people of disunity and religious nonconformity, they include all those who oppose me and my followers despite their large numbers. (Your Sect) As for the people of Sunna ( traditions and practices of the Prophet peace be upon him and his family), they include those who strictly abide by those traditions and practices despite their little numbers. And as for the people of innovation, they include all those who opposed Allah’s commands, contested the Qur'an, went up against the Prophet peace be upon him and his family and observed their self made decisions and choices despite their huge numbers. The early flock had gone past. Many more flocks are yet to follow. I ask Allah to uproot those deviators from the face of Earth!”

wasalam

Edited by Muslim2010

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I believe that Imam Ali (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم) is warning us in his Sermon about Division in Islam, and his words are not just for the incident or the time this Sermon was said, he is clearly warning the Muslims of division in Islam in the future as well.

After researching for many years I have came to a conclusion that Allah 3azawajal and his respected Prophet Mohammed were not sent to us to give us a puzzle to solve, they are very clear in their warnings.

Shias and Sunnies around the world love Ali AS and his books are all over the Sunni libraries in all Sunni countries, I have seen it with my own eyes, the love of AHL bayt is all over.

In my opinion,  this sermon is asking for unity and only unity. 

Going back to the Sermon, I believe that Shias are definitely in the group who love Ali AS too much,  and the love have made them astray.

They changed the shahada to include welayat of Ali AS even though Prophet ASWS never added this to the Shahada neither did Imam Ali ASWS.

They go visit the Ahlulbait graves  spending their money and taking time off from work before they go to Hajj witch is obligatory in Islam if you are able to physically and financially.

They never cry or do maytam for our great Prophet instead they do for Imam Hussain AS.

They teach their kids about Ahl Elbait before teaching them Quraan and Seerat Mohammed ASWS

They use Ahl Elbayt as a waseela to pray to Allah, even though Allah Azawajal said ادعوني استجب لكم"  Allah also explicitly said in Qur'an I am closer to you then your jugular vein, but the Shias say using a waseela is to shorten the distance to get to Allah

They are fueled by hate and sad emotions that they represent Islam in a very sad hateful image by disrespecting the companions of our great Prophet ( Al Muhajeroun wal Ansar) and his honorable wife Aisha and Hafasa. Who are mentioned in Quraan on many occasions in a very pleasing and respectful way.

They put Imams position above the great Prophets of God.

They claim that Quraan is not complete, denying the Aya " هذا الكتاب لا ريب فيه)

They refuse to name any of their children the names Ali AS names his own children , Abu Bakr, Umar and Uthman

They fight for Ali AS's khilafah till today, while Ali AS himself never did.

In conclusion, Shias are certainly a group who will be ruined as Ali AS mentioned in his Sermon.

They do everything against what Ali asked them to do, even going against the Ayatollah orders of not cursing and don't hit yourselves.

Not sure really who do they follow?!

http://balaghah.net/old/nahj-htm/eng/id/book-libraray/002/001.htm

However Sunnies are definitely the middle course who resite quraan, memorize it and teach it to their children, who love Ahl el bayt, muhajeroon Ansar and the wives

They are the majority whether you like it or not, and if Muslims have to fight against each other like its happening today, remember what Imam Ali AS said whoever sect himself out in small groups will he attacked by wolfs.

This is just the reality of our situation today.

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16 hours ago, Ummat Mohammed said:

I believe that Imam Ali (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم) is warning us in his Sermon about Division in Islam, and his words are not just for the incident or the time this Sermon was said, he is clearly warning the Muslims of division in Islam in the future as well.

After researching for many years I have came to a conclusion that Allah 3azawajal and his respected Prophet Mohammed were not sent to us to give us a puzzle to solve, they are very clear in their warnings.

Shias and Sunnies around the world love Ali AS and his books are all over the Sunni libraries in all Sunni countries, I have seen it with my own eyes, the love of AHL bayt is all over.

In my opinion,  this sermon is asking for unity and only unity. 

The above points raised and mentioned by yourself are quite logical, The rest of the stuff mentioned by yourself are just baseless allegations which I reject in clear words. These are the words of the propaganda  as comes from Wahhabi web sites. 

Do you not think and believe the words of Imam Ali (عليه السلام) as posted by me in last post as mentioned from Sunni reference?

Edited by Muslim2010

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These points mentioned above are real, I lived it and experienced all of them for the past 20 years, I am not making this up.

I have not experienced, read or lived with wahabies to talk about their beliefs and style that's why I'm hesitant of accusations that I'm not sure of. That's why I'm still not sure who are the other category of people who are ruined due to their hate of Ahl el bayt. 

The hadeeth you mentioned above is definitions of different groups of Muslims that I would like to investigate further, if you can send me a reference link or image  I will be grateful because when I looked it up I was unable to locate it

 

 

 

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On 9/11/2019 at 8:16 PM, 786:) said:

They will tell you that this is talking about nasibis and nusayris. I disagree with this notion. I believe the current twelver Shia are looped into this damnation as some of them focus more on Imam Ali (عليه السلام) than they do Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) and Rasool Allah (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم). Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) and Muhammad (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم) are only uttered in adhan and salah in Shia centers. Outside of that you will find no mention of them. Imam Ali (عليه السلام) is definitely talking about such group in this sermon. I am a Shia myself saying this. Truth has no bias.

If you are a Shia you know that we send full Salawat Everytime that we hear name of Prophet Muhammad (pbu) so speakers use his other titles like as Nabi & etc for avoiding gaps in sermons but at least one or two time we hear his name in every Majlis & you just show wahabi propaganda like as Safavid syndrome between them .

 

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..These points mentioned above are real, I lived it and experienced all of them for the past 20 years, I am not making this up. I have not experienced, read or lived with wahabies to talk about their beliefs and style that's why I'm hesitant of accusations that I'm not sure of. That's why I'm still not sure who are the other category of people who are ruined due to their hate of Ahl el bayt.  The hadeeth you mentioned above is definitions of different groups of Muslims that I would like to investigate further, if you can send me a reference link or image  I will be grateful because when I looked it up I was unable to locate it

 

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..These points mentioned above are real, I lived it and experienced all of them for the past 20 years, I am not making this up. I have not experienced, read or lived with wahabies to talk about their beliefs and style that's why I'm hesitant of accusations that I'm not sure of. That's why I'm still not sure who are the other category of people who are ruined due to their hate of Ahl el bayt.  The hadeeth you mentioned above is definitions of different groups of Muslims that I would like to investigate further, if you can send me a reference link or image  I will be grateful because when I looked it up I was unable to locate it

 

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On 9/12/2019 at 11:46 PM, Ummat Mohammed said:

They changed the shahada to include welayat of Ali AS even though Prophet ASWS never added this to the Shahada neither did Imam Ali ASWS

we don't change Shahada  & shahada to Welayat of Imam Ali (عليه السلام) is an optional part not an obligatory part of it.

 

On 9/12/2019 at 11:46 PM, Ummat Mohammed said:

They go visit the Ahlulbait graves  spending their money and taking time off from work before they go to Hajj witch is obligatory in Islam if you are able to physically and financially.

many Shias go to Hajj & visiting graves of Ahlul Bayt  (عليه السلام) doesn't prevent us from going to Hajj also  grave of Prophet Muhammad (pbu) & Imam Hasan (عليه السلام) and Imam Sajjad (عليه السلام) and Imam Baqir (عليه السلام) and Imam Sadiq (عليه السلام) graves are in Medina  and for increasing reward of Hajj Shias are trying to visit their grave but Wahabist are stopping them but when a Sufi  leader like as Kadyruf went to Hajj they allowed him to do everything like a visiting of grave of Prophet Muhammad (pbu) while they say it's shirk by Shias 

http://en.wikishia.net/view/Al-Baqi' 

Ziarat e Rawda e Rasool Allah ﷺ Chechnya leader Ramzan Kadyrov visit Behind the Grill in Roza Rasool

President Ramzan Kadyrov prays inside the Kaaba

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6SmxIuORP0c

In the SACRED MONTH Ramadan, Ramzan Kadyrov has made a small Hajj

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eZE8iprFfpE

On 9/12/2019 at 11:46 PM, Ummat Mohammed said:

They never cry or do maytam for our great Prophet instead they do for Imam Hussain AS.

it's also incorrect we celebrate & mourn for Prophet Muhmmad (pbu) both for his born & demise but Wahabist are people that are stopping people from doing it.

On 9/12/2019 at 11:46 PM, Ummat Mohammed said:

They teach their kids about Ahl Elbait before teaching them Quraan and Seerat Mohammed ASWS

Ahlul Bayt are guardians of Seerat Prophet Muhammad (pbu) not fabricated books of wahabists 

On 9/12/2019 at 11:46 PM, Ummat Mohammed said:

They use Ahl Elbayt as a waseela to pray to Allah, even though Allah Azawajal said ادعوني استجب لكم"  Allah also explicitly said in Qur'an I am closer to you then your jugular vein, but the Shias say using a waseela is to shorten the distance to get to Allah

you can find many threads here about it but as a short answer Shaitan (la) was more near than any of us  to Allah & he was near to Allah also more than many of angles but when Allah order him to prostrate to Prophet Adam (عليه السلام) as his Wasilah to Allah he refrained from it & said I just ask help from Allah not Prophet Adam (عليه السلام) like as wahabists that don't know how ask help from Allah (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم)

On 9/12/2019 at 11:46 PM, Ummat Mohammed said:

They are fueled by hate and sad emotions that they represent Islam in a very sad hateful image by disrespecting the companions of our great Prophet ( Al Muhajeroun wal Ansar) and his honorable wife Aisha and Hafasa. Who are mentioned in Quraan on many occasions in a very pleasing and respectful way.

our defition from companions is very different from Wahabists they consider people like as Muawiah (la) & Shimr (la) as companions & only a small minority of Shias like as shirazi cult are insulting Aisha and Hafsa 7 there is no place in Qur'an they mentioned  as pleasing Qur'an except that Wahbists have their own Qur'an that praised them 

On 9/12/2019 at 11:46 PM, Ummat Mohammed said:

They put Imams position above the great Prophets of God.

They claim that Quraan is not complete, denying the Aya " هذا الكتاب لا ريب فيه)

it's talked many time & wahabist accusation against Shias about Qur'an refuted many times 

On 9/12/2019 at 11:46 PM, Ummat Mohammed said:

They refuse to name any of their children the names Ali AS names his own children , Abu Bakr, Umar and Uthman

it's not obligatory also Wahabists don't put names of our Imams like as Imam Ali (عليه السلام) & Hasan & Hussain on their childs too

On 9/12/2019 at 11:46 PM, Ummat Mohammed said:

They fight for Ali AS's khilafah till today, while Ali AS himself never did.

In conclusion, Shias are certainly a group who will be ruined as Ali AS mentioned in his Sermon.

They do everything against what Ali asked them to do, even going against the Ayatollah orders of not cursing and don't hit yourselves.

Imam Ali (عليه السلام) in every situation claimed that he was first caliph & it's also available in Nahjul Balagha 

in Kuffa there was many groups like as Khawarij & folllowers of way of three caliphs that were under command of Imam Ali (عليه السلام) against Muawaiah (la) until khawarij stated terrorizing people but before that non Shia groups like as Khawarij were attending in Imam Ali (عليه السلام) sermons & he was pointing to them beside some weak Shias & we try to do what he wants from us but there is many differences in understanding of all of us & hate of wahabist from Imam Ali (عليه السلام) ruined tthem more than people that do guluw about him 

On 9/12/2019 at 11:46 PM, Ummat Mohammed said:

However Sunnies are definitely the middle course who resite quraan, memorize it and teach it to their children, who love Ahl el bayt, muhajeroon Ansar and the wive

you can find many Shias like as this & non of these causes superiority to other people except you see result of it in their life 

 

On 9/12/2019 at 11:46 PM, Ummat Mohammed said:

Shias and Sunnies around the world love Ali AS and his books are all over the Sunni libraries in all Sunni countries, I have seen it with my own eyes, the love of AHL bayt is all over.

Shia books like as Nahjul Balagha & Sahifa Sajjadia & even Mafatih al Jinan & Alghadeer & etc are forbidden in many Sunni countries like as Egypt & KSA so name one Shia books that you saw 

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On 9/15/2019 at 4:52 AM, Ummat Mohammed said:

 The hadeeth you mentioned above is definitions of different groups of Muslims that I would like to investigate further, if you can send me a reference link or image  I will be grateful because when I looked it up I was unable to locate it

The image of book page for the mentioned hadith are given below:

image.jpeg

image.thumb.png.05a62d0c979c0371e0560a3059d33694.png

wasalam

Edited by Muslim2010

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The words of Imam Ali as can also be seen from the other sermon of Nehjul Balagha in this regard. The words are mentioned below:

"Nehjul Balagha Sermon no. 200,  One should not be afraid of the scarcity of those who tread on the right path

O' people, do not wonder at the small number of those who follow the right path, because people throng only round the table (of this world) whose edibles are few but whose hunger is insatiable."

The above words of Imam Ali as are inline with the meaning given by verses of Qur'an that  minority are believers that follow the right path.

wasalam

Edited by Muslim2010

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