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In the Name of God بسم الله
Marzii

Proof of God's existence

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25 minutes ago, Marzii said:

.but as soon as the ocd strikes...it just messes up my head, my heart, my beliefs.. everything...there is just two thoughts in my mind 24/7 "what if there is no God" "what if you become an atheist" 

God surely knows your condition and your heart. 
May Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) grant you health behaqqe Imam Hussain (عليه السلام)!! 

If you read Qur'an, you can find in there verses where Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) command us to ponder and He really test our intellectual ability to ask questions from ourselves. 

What if there are two Gods? There would be a chance of rift between them or each God would have taken his creations separate!! 
What if all of our water disappear? Who will bring that flowing water for us? 
What if there is no God? What if these idols are God? 

:) Don't you enjoy these sort of questions? I think you just need to relax a bit. Don't feel insecure if you have a genuine health issue. Enjoy these questions and try to find the answers, the more you use your mental ability the more strength you will get for fighting this disorder.  

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23 minutes ago, Logic1234 said:

God surely knows your condition and your heart. 
May Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) grant you health behaqqe Imam Hussain (عليه السلام)!! 

If you read Qur'an, you can find in there verses where Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) command us to ponder and He really test our intellectual ability to ask questions from ourselves. 

What if there are two Gods? There would be a chance of rift between them or each God would have taken his creations separate!! 
What if all of our water disappear? Who will bring that flowing water for us? 
What if there is no God? What if these idols are God? 

:) Don't you enjoy these sort of questions? I think you just need to relax a bit. Don't feel insecure if you have a genuine health issue. Enjoy these questions and try to find the answers, the more you use your mental ability the more strength you will get for fighting this disorder.  

Thank you for replying..

I'm sorry..but I really don't enjoy such thoughts because they up my anxiety levels to infinity...and the more I try to find answers the more doubts arise..it is as if I'm being forced to become an atheist for no reason at all

Please pray for me

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1 hour ago, Marzii said:

sorry..but I really don't enjoy such thoughts because they up my anxiety levels to infinity..

Salam, 

Qur'an is a "shifa" (cure) for believers. So I am recommending you two verse which you can recite in your prayers or at anytime.

أُفَوِّضُ أَمْرِي إِلَى اللَّهِ إِنَّ اللَّهَ بَصِيرٌ بِالْعِبَادِ

Ufawwido amri ilallahe innallaha baseerum bil ibaad. (40:44)

(I entrust my affairs to Allah, surely He is watching His servants)

رَّبِّ اغْفِرْ وَارْحَمْ وَأَنتَ خَيْرُ الرَّاحِمِينَ

Rabbighfir warham wa anta khayr-ur-Rahimeen (23:118)

(My Lord! Grant forgiveness and bestow Your mercy for You are the truest bestower of mercy)

May Almighty Lord pour patience on you and grant you the steadfastness.

Wassalam

(A Brother)

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4 hours ago, eThErEaL said:

1) No.  You are someone with a mind and one of the functions of a mind is to doubt.  Why else would God give you a  mind if you weren’t allowed to doubt?   

2) No.  you cannot just believe in Him and have your doubts.  You must get them resolved and you must recognize certainty of Him, for only such certitude would give you peace.  You already have the certitude somewhere in your heart but there is something (and that is, your thoughts and emotions) clouding it right now.  You have to move beyond the clouds in order to see the sunlight shining there as it always was. Do not insult your intelligence by ignoring this.

3) PROOF.  

God does not exist anymore than reality can be said to exist.  To say X exists means that it could be possible to “discuss” its non-existence (as you seem to be doing). God is beyond such duality of existence vs nonexistence.  God is simply what it means “to be real”.  He is “reality per se”.  Do you doubt that there is something rather than nothing?  NO!  There you have it!  Now, whatever can possibly not exist (like the device in front of you and the “God on your mind”), whatever can be doubted is NOT, is NOT the real God (not reality).  They appear to be real, they appear as real, they masquerade as reality, but they are not reality itself.  Reality itself is not an object or a thing or a thought or an emotion or a sensation.  Reality itself has no distinguishing marks that you can somehow distinguish it from that which isn’t real or from something else (for that matter).

hope this helps.

ethereal

Thank you for responding

1)good to hear that I'm not out of the fold of Islam

2) I understand what you are saying...and I do want that certitude..but do also consider that my mind is disordered...I have these thoughts 24/7 and no matter what proof I give myself..my mind is hell bent to ignore it...and produce such thoughts as"you'll become an atheist" 

3)so...you are basically trying to say that God is the ultimate reality?

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8 hours ago, Marzii said:

.what if the hadiths are all false, what if the Qur'an is man made,

Doesn't matter. The only reason we need the Qur'an, the hadith's and scholars that write long theological essays about them is so that we have a common idea in society about what Allah is saying to all of us. The message is there for society.

8 hours ago, Marzii said:

what if there is actually no Allah

What if Allah is actually there?  You may doubt the existence of Allah, but how do you know for certain that he is not there? Better safe than sorry.

8 hours ago, Marzii said:

1) am I out of the fold of Islam if I have such doubts?

No. Everyone has doubts.

8 hours ago, Marzii said:

2)can I just believe...as I want yo believe...I love Allah and Islam 

No. Seek Allah. Ask him to bring you guidance and not to let you go astray. He will guide you in the right direction. His personal guidance for you is for you alone and it is up to your conscience if you want to follow it or not. It is all between you and him and what he might ask you when the day comes. It is not for the rest of society. For that the message has all ready been send to the last of the Prophets for all of us to know.

8 hours ago, Marzii said:

3) lastly... please do provide some simple proofs of Allah's existence.

If you want a scientific proof there is none and neither is there proof that he is not there. Believe in him, seek him and pray to him and he will reveal him self to you in a way that gives certainty. It may take time but persistence will prove it self in the end.

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Hello, there are definitely answers that you yourself will be able to discover. I would also be very happy to help you to discover the truth.

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9 hours ago, Revert1963 said:

seek him and pray to him and he will reveal him self to you in a way that gives certainty. It may take time but persistence will prove it self in the end.

You forgot, in accordance with Ayat 18:23-24 inshallah

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13 hours ago, Marzii said:

3)so...you are basically trying to say that God is the ultimate reality?

Question not directed to me but yes, it is implicit that God is Ultimate Reality in Islam. Afterall, al-Haqq IS one of the names of Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى). 

Remember the Shahada (La ilaha illa'llah), "There is No God but God". 

Remember Surah Ikhlas? 

Remember the ayat (also in Ikhlas) that "There is nothing like God"? 

Remember names of Allah such as as-Samad, al-Ahad, az-Zahir, al-Batin, an-Nur, al-Baqi, al-Khaliq, al-Bari etc etc etc. 

Remember the many sayings of the Imams on the topic of Tawhid? (there's an incredible and massive section in al-Kafi, among others)

Also contemplate the Tashbih and Tanzih. 

 

Peace and blessings, may you be successful and find your way :)

Edited by HakimPtsid

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I think, aside from the contemplation of the nature of the cycles of manifest existence (or "the Universe") - which includes things that you in fact often do take completely for granted (like the day/night cycle, fractals in nature etc), the other part is to contemplate the nature of Dunya itself. We give too much credence to certain assumed expectations about this life/world/realm, but not much to it's actual nature. Sure we live and die, but even a skeptical materialist may begin to see a problem with that on a logical and ontological level. 

One oft-repeating Ayat in the Qur'an is "From Allah we come and to him is the Return". We tend to assume pre-birth and death to be qualities of "not-being" rather than states. Even on a materialist worldview the very idea of how nothing really goes anywhere, even if it appears to, is another part on a 'naturalistic' level of the issue you run into. 

You're always going to run into IT, however it conceptualizes in various philosophical systems but IT will inevitably show up. The biggest shot to the foot in modern science is the denial of (and often subtle concealing of) Metaphysics. 

Aside from this, the Universe is Duality (opposites and disctinctiveness), for these to even be Duality in the first place requires there to be a Unity that precedes and defines the essence of everything else. God is that Unity (Tawhid). Even if we take it in the most radically impersonal sense (such as how Buddhists try to conceptualize the ontological limits of known existence), it still remains a thing that is simultaneously present and different from everything else. There is also far more to discuss here as well.

Edited by HakimPtsid

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19 hours ago, Marzii said:

but I really don't enjoy such thoughts because they up my anxiety levels to infinity

Salamun Alaikum, 

Do we have the power to stop ideas, thoughts or doubts to popup in our minds? Although I believe yes we can but it will require Allah's blessings and strong exercise/efforts for our side. 

How many people struggle in making their prayers pure for Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى)? Their wish is that not even any thought or idea should come in their minds except the thought of Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) while performing the salah but most of us struggle thought out our lives to attain this "malakah" (ability). So as long as we are "Qasir" (unable) we need to deal with them on our own. 

I can understand your anxiety, it is not comfortable to think that whether there is a God or not specially when one has believed. Your anxiety is a proof that you have not left the folds of Islam. How you deal with the whispers of Satan? He is your hidden enemy and he is ready all the time to fill your mind with different sort of doubts or thoughts, I believe that you have the power to reject those doubts & thoughts. A part from that our own "nafs" incites us to do evil or think bad, we need to fight with our self & take it to the level where it becomes nafs al-lawwama (the one who condemns the wrongdoing or bad things) and this is not the end of the war, their is another station for it where it becomes totally peaceful (mutma'in). 

My prayers are with you, may Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) grant you good health as well as steadfastness.   

Edited by Logic1234

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21 hours ago, Marzii said:

Salam alaikum every one

I hope everyone is doing well. So,as my previous posts reveal, I'm a patient of obsessive compulsive disorder, diagnosed officially. My mind tends to doubt everything under the sky..from the very point of me being awake and living to the point if Allah exists or not.. some days I'm full of conviction in my beliefs about Allah....but as soon as the ocd strikes...it just messes up my head, my heart, my beliefs.. everything...there is just two thoughts in my mind 24/7 "what if there is no God" "what if you become an atheist" 

It's the beginning of Muharram...and these thoughts are really killing me. I just can't focus in my prayers, while reading the Qur'an or during the Majlis... although I do these things everyday...I feel no. Connection with Allah...I feel lost..in every aspect of Islam that I believe in...there is a" what if" thought in my head...what if the hadiths are all false, what if the Qur'an is man made, what if there is actually no Allah....and the list goes on... whenever these thoughts strike...I search for a solution...I'm compelled to...search the internet..go on atheistc and/or religious sites to reassure myself that my beliefs are true..

I wanted to ask some questions regarding my above condition

1) am I out of the fold of Islam if I have such doubts? 

2)can I just believe...as I want yo believe...I love Allah and Islam 

3) lastly... please do provide some simple proofs of Allah's existence..

I would humbly request every one to pray for me to Allah..that if he exists I want to be guided..

Thank you so much

 

You are not alone in such condition. Question comes for answers and no any question is unanswered. 

I will try to answer few of your questions:

1. Qur'an is not man made because the prophecies in it are not man made because a human cannot possess such ability. Qur'an mentions that Persia will be defeated by Rome prophesied in the life of Prophet and happened after his (PBUHHP) life. Also mentioned that Sun has a course and modern science says it follows a star and travels along its solar system. Also explains that humans are born from a "semen"....while before it was thought female is responsible for son or daughter but Qur'an says its male as semen is from male.

2. Hadith that confirm Qur'an are true and those who don't are not authentic.

3. Allah is truth think about yourself, who is taking care of your body? Your intellect right....if your intellect does not send you signal that you are hungry, will you eat food? You won't even think about it and your body will slowly weakens until you get sick. So, you cannot maintain your body without a guide, how could this whole universe stand balanced without an intellect and such intellect is Allah (عزّ وجلّ).

 

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On 9/5/2019 at 4:16 PM, Marzii said:

please do provide some simple proofs of Allah's existence..

Surah At-Tur, Verse 35:
أَمْ خُلِقُوا مِنْ غَيْرِ شَيْءٍ أَمْ هُمُ الْخَالِقُونَ

Or were they created without there being anything, or are they the creators?
(English - Shakir)

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On 9/5/2019 at 8:52 AM, Marzii said:

Thank you for responding

1)good to hear that I'm not out of the fold of Islam

2) I understand what you are saying...and I do want that certitude..but do also consider that my mind is disordered...I have these thoughts 24/7 and no matter what proof I give myself..my mind is hell bent to ignore it...and produce such thoughts as"you'll become an atheist" 

3)so...you are basically trying to say that God is the ultimate reality?

1) no one (including myself) needs to validate this for you.  You gotta have trust in God’s mercy because that is what dominates over all the rest of his names.  It is finally time for you to simply and effortlessly relax and fall back into infinite Sea of His merciful Presence.  

2) what I gave you is not even a proof.  It is just an unnecessary declaration of the way things already are.  The thought you have of “I am unable to...” or “I always doubt”, is you choosing to limit yourself by focusing your attention on something very tiny and small.  Don’t have a tiny mind but have a vast mind like the universe all around you that you are aware of (after all, how are you aware of this vast universe?).  Try to understand and to see that you are vast like the universe. Try to see that God has allowed us, mankind, to preside over the rest of His creation, as vicegerents.  

Once you believe in this you will notice the gift God gave you.  The gift He gave you is Himself.    He is within you and it is through Him that you are aware of everything.  

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On 9/5/2019 at 3:46 PM, Marzii said:

Salam alaikum every one

I hope everyone is doing well. So,as my previous posts reveal, I'm a patient of obsessive compulsive disorder, diagnosed officially. My mind tends to doubt everything under the sky..from the very point of me being awake and living to the point if Allah exists or not.. some days I'm full of conviction in my beliefs about Allah....but as soon as the ocd strikes...it just messes up my head, my heart, my beliefs.. everything...there is just two thoughts in my mind 24/7 "what if there is no God" "what if you become an atheist" 

It's the beginning of Muharram...and these thoughts are really killing me. I just can't focus in my prayers, while reading the Qur'an or during the Majlis... although I do these things everyday...I feel no. Connection with Allah...I feel lost..in every aspect of Islam that I believe in...there is a" what if" thought in my head...what if the hadiths are all false, what if the Qur'an is man made, what if there is actually no Allah....and the list goes on... whenever these thoughts strike...I search for a solution...I'm compelled to...search the internet..go on atheistc and/or religious sites to reassure myself that my beliefs are true..

I wanted to ask some questions regarding my above condition

1) am I out of the fold of Islam if I have such doubts? 

2)can I just believe...as I want yo believe...I love Allah and Islam 

3) lastly... please do provide some simple proofs of Allah's existence..

I would humbly request every one to pray for me to Allah..that if he exists I want to be guided..

Thank you so much

 

salaam brother, I was in your boat some time ago, and although I don't want to, I can't bring myself to believe in the Islamic version of God, a God that destroys nations and roasts people's skin over and over again, that hangs women by their hair and has evil looking angels burning prisoners in hell. what part of this is divine and not made up, I can’t tell... I can’t believe in a God that wants us to repeat things like robots, Much of the "life of hereafter" seems like a fantasy to me...

for a religion that asks you to ponder, paradoxically the first thing its asks you to do is "believe in the unseen"... don't ponder on that... in other words take one person's word for it, this is something that can't be proven.

lastly this religion is so much dependent on the scholarly work and trust worthiness of normal men throughout the history... (Ilm Rajaal)... because of these imperfect men throughout history, in my opinion its impossible to clearly figure out what actually happened in history, what anyone actually said or didn't say... did the Prophet split the moon or not, how can anyone prove this?

it's impossible to criticize the Qur'an, as there is always some "interpretation" of it that means something else... its like arguing with Sunnis, you can't win even if the hadith is from their book.

I find myself lost and no one to turn to for answers....

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On 9/5/2019 at 7:15 PM, eThErEaL said:

1) No.  You are someone with a mind and one of the functions of a mind is to doubt.  Why else would God give you a  mind if you weren’t allowed to doubt?   

2) No.  you cannot just believe in Him and have your doubts.  You must get them resolved and you must recognize certainty of Him, for only such certitude would give you peace.  You already have the certitude somewhere in your heart but there is something (and that is, your thoughts and emotions) clouding it right now.  You have to move beyond the clouds in order to see the sunlight shining there as it always was. Do not insult your intelligence by ignoring this.

3) PROOF.  

God does not exist anymore than reality can be said to exist.  To say X exists means that it could be possible to “discuss” its non-existence (as you seem to be doing). God is beyond such duality of existence vs nonexistence.  God is simply what it means “to be real”.  He is “reality per se”.  Do you doubt that there is something rather than nothing?  NO!  There you have it!  Now, whatever can possibly not exist (like the device in front of you and the “God on your mind”), whatever can be doubted is NOT, is NOT the real God (not reality).  They appear to be real, they appear as real, they masquerade as reality, but they are not reality itself.  Reality itself is not an object or a thing or a thought or an emotion or a sensation.  Reality itself has no distinguishing marks that you can somehow distinguish it from that which isn’t real or from something else (for that matter).

hope this helps.

ethereal

Why does less than 1 percent of entire humanity have access or the ability to see Reality? if Reality is so real, then why are so many blind to it? the disparity and distribution of spiritual wealth by God appears to be far worse than the distribution of material wealth...

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13 minutes ago, khamosh21 said:

can't bring myself to believe in the Islamic version of God, a God that destroys nations and roasts people's skin over and over again, that hangs women by their hair and has evil looking angels burning prisoners in hell. what part of this is divine and not made up,

So you believe in such a God who continue to send his messengers and you (means humanity) continue to kill them & ridicule them, fight with them, stone them or crucify them but that God always love & bless you and avoid doing justice so that another group of humans raise questions about the justice & power of that God.

I am sorry to say that, but it seems like you have made God to an incapable & unjust thing.

19 minutes ago, khamosh21 said:

paradoxically the first thing its asks you to do is "believe in the unseen"..

If a simple truth seems paradox to you then its your problem. Anything which can be seen, is limited. A thing which is unlimted cannot be seen through these eyes or through telescopes or microscopes. 

25 minutes ago, khamosh21 said:

lastly this religion is so much dependent on the scholarly work

The religion is only that "there is no God except Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) and Muhammad (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم) is His servant & Prophet". This is the simplest definition of Islam. 

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@ op

Everything is a proof if only you think about it, starting from you yourself, where is a universe within you. What makes you think otherwise? The unbelievers always lie. Have you ever met an unbeliever who is honest?

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44 minutes ago, Cool said:

So you believe in such a God who continue to send his messengers and you (means humanity) continue to kill them & ridicule them, fight with them, stone them or crucify them but that God always love & bless you and avoid doing justice so that another group of humans raise questions about the justice & power of that God.

I am sorry to say that, but it seems like you have made God to an incapable & unjust thing.

If a simple truth seems paradox to you then its your problem. Anything which can be seen, is limited. A thing which is unlimted cannot be seen through these eyes or through telescopes or microscopes. 

The religion is only that "there is no God except Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) and Muhammad (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم) is His servant & Prophet". This is the simplest definition of Islam. 

Para 1: exactly, I don't believe in such a God. I also don't know if there were as many Prophets as Islam or Qur'an says there were, there is simply no way to prove it. Much of the historical view of the Qur'an and Islam can't be proved... Muslims can't even agree on their limited 1300 year old history, how do you expect to believe anything they have to say about what happened before?

Para 2: there needs to be evidence or proof for the unseen, not necessarily evidence for the senses, but at least enough reasoning to accept it. one man saying so doesn't count as evidence.

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5 hours ago, khamosh21 said:

I also don't know if there were as many Prophets as Islam or Qur'an says there were, there is simply no way to prove it.

The message is quite simple I.e., there is no God except Allah and Muhammad (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم) is His servant & Prophet.

This doesn't need you to prove there are any number of Prophets arrived for guiding humanity. 

6 hours ago, khamosh21 said:

there needs to be evidence or proof for the unseen, not necessarily evidence for the senses, but at least enough reasoning to accept it.

There are solid logical arguments mentioned in Qur'an and as well as presented by Urfa.

One of them is the verse of Sura e Tur quoted earlier on this thread.

Apart from all this, our very self, is a proof of God.

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2 hours ago, Cool said:

The message is quite simple I.e., there is no God except Allah and Muhammad (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم) is His servant & Prophet.

This doesn't need you to prove there are any number of Prophets arrived for guiding humanity. 

There are solid logical arguments mentioned in Qur'an and as well as presented by Urfa.

One of them is the verse of Sura e Tur quoted earlier on this thread.

Apart from all this, our very self, is a proof of God

If you are satisfied with such arguments, that's great, but what if someone like me isn't satisfied, then what? 

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1 minute ago, khamosh21 said:

what if someone like me isn't satisfied, then what? 

There were many who were not satisfied when Hazrat Madinatul ilm (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم) was among them & explaining them, reciting before them "suhufan mutahharah". So my answer to this question would be same as his answer:

"Wama ana alaikum behafeez"

Surah Al-Anaam, Verse 104:
قَدْ جَاءَكُم بَصَائِرُ مِن رَّبِّكُمْ فَمَنْ أَبْصَرَ فَلِنَفْسِهِ وَمَنْ عَمِيَ فَعَلَيْهَا وَمَا أَنَا عَلَيْكُم بِحَفِيظٍ

Indeed there have come to you clear proofs from your Lord; whoever will therefore see, it is for his own soul and whoever will be blind, it shall be against himself and I am not a keeper over you.
(English - Shakir)

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16 hours ago, khamosh21 said:

Why does less than 1 percent of entire humanity have access or the ability to see Reality? if Reality is so real, then why are so many blind to it? the disparity and distribution of spiritual wealth by God appears to be far worse than the distribution of material wealth...

I beg to differ.  100% of humanity has 100% certitude that there is reality.  

Edited by eThErEaL

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8 hours ago, khamosh21 said:

I think you know what I mean brother... if you want to play word games like usual, be my guest

Why do you think he is playing word games, lol. How can someone be blind of reality? Everyone accept there is reality. It is the only and same reality that can't be doubt or defined. It is the only and same reality that allows all the definition of things to manifest. If there have always been creations, then there have always been one reality and if there have been none creation, then there have always been one reality. Everything depends on it, and reality does not depend on anything.

Edited by Abu Nur

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1 hour ago, Abu Nur said:

Why do you think he is playing word games, lol. How can someone be blind of reality? Everyone accept there is reality. It is the only and same reality that can't be doubt or defined. It is the only and same reality that allows all the definition of things to manifest. If there have always been creations, then there have always been one reality and if there have been none creation, then there have always been one reality. Everything depends on it, and reality does not depend on anything.

do I really need to spell this out for you? in your terms, I am asking why is it that such few people are able to define reality correctly then? why the drama and game of convincing Allah exists if it's all so easy and 100 percent people get it?

im just saying the point was quite clear, the reply did not address this...

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