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In the Name of God بسم الله
313.

Why did the Prophet marry a 9 year old?

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Guest Kazmi

1. No, HE (P.B.U.H) did not marry a 9 year old. Lady Ayesha was much older according to numerous authentic sources when she was married to Prophet Muhammad (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم).W.

2. It is too low for even a common layman to do something like that let alone The Best One among all the Creations. How can we even think HE P.B.U.H would do something like that!

May Allah bless us all hidayah.

 

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37 minutes ago, 313. said:

Why did the Prophet marry a 9 year old?

Prophet Muhammad ((صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم)) married many women for different reasons (maybe political). For example he married those from other tribes to cause unity.

It's obvious that Prophet Muhammad ((صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم)) only married Lady Khadija because he truly loved her.

Edited by ali_fatheroforphans

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2 hours ago, 313. said:

And why did he make his adopted son divorce his wife so he can marry her?

Salam he didn't make   " his adopted son divorce his wife so he can marry her" but it was a tradition from time of ignorance that Arabs were considering their Adopted sons as their real sons that still in Islam a father can't marry wife of his son because they become " forever Maram" even his real son divorces his wife father of son can't marry her but in ignorance time it was applying about adopted son too that Prophet Muhammad (pbu) canceled this rule with that marriage because this rule  hijacked by other people like as Ummayids to stick themselves to Quraish tribe because forefather of Ummayids ,the Ummayeh became a member of Quraish tribe as an adopted son that Imam Ali (عليه السلام) in his letter to Muawiah (la) said 

 nor can one of pure descent be a match for him who has been adopted, nor the pursuer of truth be a match of the adherent to wrong, nor a believer be a match for a hypocrite. How bad are the successors who go on following their predecessors who have fallen in the fire of Hell!

https://www.al-Islam.org/nahjul-balagha-part-2-letters-and-sayings/letter-17-reply-letter-muawiyah

Anti-Umayyad polemic says that his name is derived from 'afa', a diminutive of the word for slave-girl[1] and instead of being the legitimate son of Abd Shams, Ibn al-Kalbi claim that he was adopted by him,[2]however Ibn al-Kalbi is acknowledged as unreliable reporter.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Umayya_ibn_Abd_Shams

http://fa.wikishia.net/view/بنی‌امیه

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According to Tabari, Aisha was born before Islam emerged. So when she got married, she was at least 15 or 16.

According to Ibn-e Qatibeh Dinvari, she died at the age of 70 or 69 in the year 57 H.

So she was around 15 years old when she married.

There are more evidence that proves she was not 9...

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As-salāmu ʿālaykum wā raḥmātullahi wā barākatuh

First of all, the Shiʾa are known to have an opinion on Aisha, and so, her aḥādith mean nothing.

In reality, however, she wasn’t six, nine, or ten. She was much older.

I’ll use the much detailed biography of her sister, Asmāʾ, to show you.

Asmāʾ was born 27 years before hijrā.

  1. Tāhḏhib ʾal-Asmā, volume 2, page 329.

Abd ʾal-Raḥmān bin Aʾbi l-Zannād said: “Asmāʾ was 10 years older than Aisha.”

  1. Siyār Aʾlam al-Nubalāʾ, volume 2, page 289.
  2. ʾal-Bidāyah wan Nihāyah, volume 8, page(s) 371-381.

This means that Aisha was 17 years old in the year of hijrā,

according to their chroniclers (and historians), Aisha got married in the second year of hijrā, which would make her 19 years old at that time.

 

As brother Ibn al-Hussain said, you have to take into account, the historical context... The average life expectancy back then did not exceed fifty years old...

  1. According to apocryphal accounts, Mary was 12/14.
  2. 33 year old, King John of England, married 12 year old, Isabella.
  3. Margaret Beaufort gave birth to Henry Tudor when she was 13 years old.
  4. In 1476, Joan of France, Duchess of Barrie, was betrothed at 8 days old, and was officially married at age 12.
  5. In 1477, Anne de Mowbray, 8th Countess of Norfolk, was aged 6 when she got married, and died at the age of 10.

In Romeo and Juliet, Juliet was 13 years old, in a play written in the 16th century.

 

And even then, Aisha was actually barren (unable to give birth)...

Edited by Simon the Canaanite

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6 hours ago, 313. said:

And why did he make his adopted son divorce his wife so he can marry her?

No one has addressed this question!!!

@Ibn al-Hussain @Simon the Canaanite

His question is with reference to the following verse of Qur'an:
 

Quote

وَإِذْ تَقُولُ لِلَّذِي أَنْعَمَ اللَّهُ عَلَيْهِ وَأَنْعَمْتَ عَلَيْهِ أَمْسِكْ عَلَيْكَ زَوْجَكَ وَاتَّقِ اللَّهَ وَتُخْفِي فِي نَفْسِكَ مَا اللَّهُ مُبْدِيهِ وَتَخْشَى النَّاسَ وَاللَّهُ أَحَقُّ أَنْ تَخْشَاهُ ۖ فَلَمَّا قَضَىٰ زَيْدٌ مِنْهَا وَطَرًا زَوَّجْنَاكَهَا لِكَيْ لَا يَكُونَ عَلَى الْمُؤْمِنِينَ حَرَجٌ فِي أَزْوَاجِ أَدْعِيَائِهِمْ إِذَا قَضَوْا مِنْهُنَّ وَطَرًا ۚ وَكَانَ أَمْرُ اللَّهِ مَفْعُولًا {37}

[Shakir 33:37] And when you said to him to whom Allah had shown favor and to whom you had shown a favor: Keep your wife to yourself and be careful of (your duty to) Allah; and you concealed in your soul what Allah would bring to light, and you feared men, and Allah had a greater right that you should fear Him. But when Zaid had accomplished his want of her, We gave her to you as a wife, so that there should be no difficulty for the believers in respect of the wives of their adopted sons, when they have accomplished their want of them; and Allah's command shall be performed.
[Pickthal 33:37] And when thou saidst unto him on whom Allah hath conferred favour and thou hast conferred favour: Keep thy wife to thyself, and fear Allah. And thou didst hide in thy mind that which Allah was to bring to light, and thou didst fear mankind whereas Allah hath a better right that thou shouldst fear Him. So when Zeyd had performed that necessary formality (of divorce) from her, We gave her unto thee in marriage, so that (henceforth) there may be no sin for believers in respect of wives of their adopted sons, when the latter have performed the necessary formality (of release) from them. The commandment of Allah must be fulfilled.
[Yusufali 33:37] Behold! Thou didst say to one who had received the grace of Allah and thy favour: "Retain thou (in wedlock) thy wife, and fear Allah." But thou didst hide in thy heart that which Allah was about to make manifest: thou didst fear the people, but it is more fitting that thou shouldst fear Allah. Then when Zaid had dissolved (his marriage) with her, with the necessary (formality), We joined her in marriage to thee: in order that (in future) there may be no difficulty to the Believers in (the matter of) marriage with the wives of their adopted sons, when the latter have dissolved with the necessary (formality) (their marriage) with them. And Allah's command must be fulfilled.

 

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1 minute ago, Ibn al-Hussain said:

A 9 year old wasn't considered a child like today. There is nothing absurd about the marriage. Or else you should admit that Fatima (s) was a child bride as well.

There are even narrations that say Fatima (عليه السلام) was older aswell when she got married.

I know that it was a common thing back then, but there are even narrations which state that the Holy Prophet (sawas) would do something known as thighing (astaghfirullah) and Sunnis blieve that because it had to do with her young age, like thats just ridiculous. Not only that but there are many other narations which talk about the Prophet (sawas) having lustful desires. 

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Marriage is not always for the sake of lust or love.

Especially if you lived 600 years ago and trying to unite all the Arab tribes who are usually busy fighting each other.

Similarly we can see throughout the world's history that many times marriage between the rulers of countries or states was used as means of uniting them.

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Guest Just Sayin'
On 9/5/2019 at 10:22 AM, Soldiers and Saffron said:

Marriage is not always for the sake of lust or love.

Especially if you lived 600 years ago and trying to unite all the Arab tribes who are usually busy fighting each other.

Similarly we can see throughout the world's history that many times marriage between the rulers of countries or states was used as means of uniting them.

السلام عليكم

The Messenger صلى الله عليه وسلم lived 1400 years ago, بارك الله فيكم.

However, my question is; which tribes did the Messenger صلى الله عليه وسلم's marriage to Ayesha prevent from going to war?  There's in fact no real political reason for the marriage since the bani Taym was a pretty insignificant clan and Abu Bakr didn't have much influence.

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6 hours ago, Ibn al-Hussain said:

From Usul al-Kafi

وعن علي بن إبراهيم، عن محمد بن عيسى، عن يونس، عن أبي أيوب الخراز، عن إسماعيل بن جعفر ـ في حديث ـ أن رسول الله ( صلى الله عليه وآله ) دخل بعائشة وهي بنت عشر سنين، وليس يدخل بالجارية حتى تكون امرأة

And from Ali b. Ibrāhīm from Muḥammad b. ʿĪsā from Yūnus from Abū Ayyūb al-Kharrāz from Ismāʿīl b. Jaʿfar in a hadith that the Messenger of God (p) entered upon (I.e. had intercourse with) ʿĀ’isha while she was ten years old, and that one does not enter upon a girl until she is a woman.

Save your Orientalist-appeasing evidence for Ayesha being older for yourself.

Wasalam

Six, nine, ten, or nineteen, Shiʾa don’t care about Aisha either way.

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1 hour ago, 3wliya_maryam said:

I know that it was a common thing back then, but there are even narrations which state that the Holy Prophet (sawas) would do something known as thighing (astaghfirullah) and Sunnis blieve that because it had to do with her young age, like thats just ridiculous. Not only that but there are many other narations which talk about the Prophet (sawas) having lustful desires. 

Err... pretty much all Shia marjas allow that...

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5 minutes ago, Simon the Canaanite said:

*NOT all. Some do, some don’t.

Majority allow it, for example all the big names: 

- Al-Sayyid Muḥammad Kāẓim al-Yazdī (d. 1919) in his al-‘Urwah al-Wuthqa (vol. 5, pg. 502 http://lib.eshia.ir/10027/5/502)
- Al-Sayyid Muḥsin al-Ḥakīm (d. 1970) in his Mustamsak al-‘Urwah al-Wuthqa (vol. 14, pg. 80 http://lib.eshia.ir/27158/14/80)
- Al-Imām al-Khomeynī (d. 1989) in his Taḥrīr al-Wasīlah (vol. 2, pg. 259 http://lib.eshia.ir/27158/14/80)
- Al-Sayyid Mar’ashī al-Najafī (d. 1990) in his Minhāj al-Mu’minīn (vol. 2, pg. 208)
- Al-Sayyid al-Khūī (d. 1992) in his Kitāb al-Nikāḥ (vol. 1, pg. 155 http://lib.eshia.ir/27158/14/80)
- Al-Sayyid ‘Abd al-A’la al-Sabzwārī (d. 1993) in his Muhadhdhab al-Aḥkām fī Bayān Ḥalāl wa al-Ḥarām (vol. 24, pg. 73 http://lib.eshia.ir/10443/24/73)
- Al-Shaykh Muḥammad al-Fāḍil al-Lankarānī (d. 2007) in his Tafṣīl al-Sharī’ah – al-Nikāḥ (pg. 22 http://lib.eshia.ir/10605/1/22)
- Al-Sayyid Muḥammad Ṣādiq al-Rūḥānī in his Fiqh al-Ṣādiq (vol. 21, pg. 88 http://lib.eshia.ir/10113/21/88/)
- Al-Shaykh Luṭfallah al-Ṣāfī in his Hidāyah al-‘Ibād (vol. 2, pg. 238 http://lib.eshia.ir/10113/21/88/)
- Al-Sayyid Muḥammad Taqī al-Modarresī in his Al-Wajīz fī Fiqh al-Islāmī – Aḥkām al-Ziwāj wa Fiqh al-Usra (pg. 147 http://lib.eshia.ir/10113/21/88/)
- Al-Sayyid al-Sīstānī in his Minhāj al-Ṣāliḥīn (pg. 10, issue #8 https://www.Sistani.org/Arabic/book/16/858/)

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2 hours ago, 3wliya_maryam said:

There are narrations which state that Aisha was much older.

 

2 hours ago, 3wliya_maryam said:

There are even narrations that say Fatima (عليه السلام) was older aswell when she got married.

Salams,

Which narrations? Could you quote them along with their sources, please. It'd be necessary seeing all historians seem to suggest that they were both child-brides by today's standards since, at least in the instance of Aisha, we have direct testimony of her age when she was married and consummated by the Prophet while evidence for her being older is often more unreliable as it requires the corroborations of several individual pieces of information which can, at times, just be nothing better than estimations. While I personally think there could be an argument that these reports of Aisha's age aren't as reliable as we'd think, a friend of mine is writing a PhD thesis using the Isnad-cum-Matn analysis to analyse the traditions on Aisha and demonstrate them to be a Kufan fabrication. I haven't read his work since he's still writing it so as it stands the evidence seems to be in the favour of her very young age. Sayyida Fatima being around that age is more certain, though, based off the historical sources. I'm especially curious which narrations exist stating Sayyida Fatima was older, please share. 

 

 

Edited by Ibn Al-Ja'abi

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1 hour ago, Simon the Canaanite said:

Six, nine, ten, or nineteen, Shiʾa don’t care about Aisha either way.

It's not about whether we care for Aisha, you likely stated she was older because it's often perceived as an embarassement since its contrary to modern mores. Yasir al-Habib argued for her being older for this reason, I believe. We have a rather explicit Shia hadith stating she was ten when the Prophet consummated his marriage with her. Whether we care about her or not is unimportant, as it regards this topic we have evidence he had intercourse with her at the age of ten from our books.

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16 minutes ago, Ibn Al-Ja'abi said:

I'm especially curious which narrations exist stating Sayyida Fatima was older, please share. 

No narrations exist, it is usually just relying on estimated dates and ages given for other events or other individuals after which the ages of these figures is calculated and estimated. In such a case, given the overwhelming presence of the view regarding the age - for example, of 'Ayesha - other arguments relying on estimations are pretty much useless and all legitimate historians know that this is nothing but a modern attempt to make the West happy and update our history to meet their moral standards because of the theological presumption that whatever the Prophet or an Imam did necessarily has to remain moral until the end of times. They then shoot themselves in the foot and get their underwear in a knot when the topic of slavery is opened up...

Edited by Ibn al-Hussain

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4 minutes ago, Ibn al-Hussain said:

No narrations exist, it is usually just relying on estimated dates and ages given for other events or other individuals after which the ages of these figures is calculated and estimated. In such a case, given the overwhelming presence of the view regarding the age - for example, of 'Ayesha - other arguments relying on estimations are pretty much useless and all legitimate historians know that this is nothing but a modern attempt to make the West happy and update our history to meet their moral standards because of the theological presumption that whatever the Prophet or an Imam did necessarily has to remain moral until the end of times. They then shoot themselves in the foot and get their underwear in a knot when the topic of slavery is opened up...

 

1 hour ago, Ibn al-Hussain said:

Err... pretty much all Shia marjas allow that...

I don’t think I already asked you about that brother. What is your point of view about this article  ?

https://exposingtawhidi.wordpress.com/2017/06/26/defence-of-tashayyu-thighing/

 

Edited by Mohammadi_follower

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15 minutes ago, Mohammadi_follower said:

I don’t think I already asked you about that brother. What is your point of view about this article  ?

https://exposingtawhidi.wordpress.com/2017/06/26/defence-of-tashayyu-thighing/

Yeah you can give many answers like these and try to contextualize it and say that this is not something that is encouraged etc. That's besides the point though - the point is that it is allowed as a primary ruling according to these Maraji', and only under secondary circumstances it can be disallowed (even that is left up to the individual themselves to determine). Most people will probably determine that it is to be disallowed today through secondary reasons, but that doesn't mean that had to have been the case during the time of the Prophet (p).

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3 minutes ago, Ibn al-Hussain said:

Yeah you can give many answers like these and try to contextualize it and say that this is not something that is encouraged etc. That's besides the point though - the point is that it is allowed as a primary ruling according to these Maraji', and only under secondary circumstances it can be disallowed (even that is left up to the individual themselves to determine). Most people will probably determine that it is to be disallowed today through secondary reasons, but that doesn't mean that had to have been the case during the time of the Prophet (p).

So here I want to ask. Do most scholars add the second reason for forbid that? You meant that was authorized without problem some centuries ago? 

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Just now, Mohammadi_follower said:

You meant that was authorized without problem some centuries ago? 

Yes. Secondary reasons are not mentioned in the Fatwas - that is the case for most Fatwas anyways, because they are subjective to each individual case.

Edited by Ibn al-Hussain

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I looked into this and from a lot of Sunni sources it seems that she was somewhere between 19 and 21 (as has been already said). The increasing lowering of her age in Sunni sources from what I have been able to make out was due to some Shia implying that Aishia was not a virgin when she married. I am not a Muslim though I accept a lot of what Islam teaches and one of the principle reasons, in fact the principle I am not a Muslim, is that I have a lot of problems accepting the historicity of what I am tempted to call legends about the Prophet. One of the most annoying things, if not the most annoying things I find about "Islamophobes"/"Counter Jihad" is that they always take the most outrageous of these legends, and often ones in Islamic Tradition are open to doubt, and state them as if they were pure fact that cannot be denied.

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Just now, Mohammadi_follower said:

But you said recently scholars began to put a second reason for forbid it. So when they began to do that? 

In their academic discussions or in their notes on 'Urwah al-Wuthqa - for example Ayatullah Makarem Shirazi: http://ar.lib.eshia.ir/27542/2/772 and http://ar.lib.eshia.ir/10282/1/39

Wasalam

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2 hours ago, Ibn al-Hussain said:

Majority allow it, for example all the big names: 

- Al-Sayyid Muḥammad Kāẓim al-Yazdī (d. 1919) in his al-‘Urwah al-Wuthqa (vol. 5, pg. 502 http://lib.eshia.ir/10027/5/502)
- Al-Sayyid Muḥsin al-Ḥakīm (d. 1970) in his Mustamsak al-‘Urwah al-Wuthqa (vol. 14, pg. 80 http://lib.eshia.ir/27158/14/80)
- Al-Imām al-Khomeynī (d. 1989) in his Taḥrīr al-Wasīlah (vol. 2, pg. 259 http://lib.eshia.ir/27158/14/80)
- Al-Sayyid Mar’ashī al-Najafī (d. 1990) in his Minhāj al-Mu’minīn (vol. 2, pg. 208)
- Al-Sayyid al-Khūī (d. 1992) in his Kitāb al-Nikāḥ (vol. 1, pg. 155 http://lib.eshia.ir/27158/14/80)
- Al-Sayyid ‘Abd al-A’la al-Sabzwārī (d. 1993) in his Muhadhdhab al-Aḥkām fī Bayān Ḥalāl wa al-Ḥarām (vol. 24, pg. 73 http://lib.eshia.ir/10443/24/73)
- Al-Shaykh Muḥammad al-Fāḍil al-Lankarānī (d. 2007) in his Tafṣīl al-Sharī’ah – al-Nikāḥ (pg. 22 http://lib.eshia.ir/10605/1/22)
- Al-Sayyid Muḥammad Ṣādiq al-Rūḥānī in his Fiqh al-Ṣādiq (vol. 21, pg. 88 http://lib.eshia.ir/10113/21/88/)
- Al-Shaykh Luṭfallah al-Ṣāfī in his Hidāyah al-‘Ibād (vol. 2, pg. 238 http://lib.eshia.ir/10113/21/88/)
- Al-Sayyid Muḥammad Taqī al-Modarresī in his Al-Wajīz fī Fiqh al-Islāmī – Aḥkām al-Ziwāj wa Fiqh al-Usra (pg. 147 http://lib.eshia.ir/10113/21/88/)
- Al-Sayyid al-Sīstānī in his Minhāj al-Ṣāliḥīn (pg. 10, issue #8 https://www.Sistani.org/Arabic/book/16/858/)

It is really terrible that some scholars say "it is permissible even if the wife is a baby"!!!!

A baby??!!!! 

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وعن سيد الحفاظ أبي منصور الديلمي بإسناده أن عبدالله بن الحسن دخل على هشام بن عبدالملك وعنده الكلبي ، فقال هشام لعبد الله بن الحسن : يا أبا محمد! كم بلغت فاطمة بنت رسول الله من السن؟ فقال : بلغت ثلاثين فقال للكلبي : ما تقول؟ قال : بلغت خمسا وثلاثين ، فقال هشام لعبدالله : ألا تسمع ما يقول الكلبي؟ فقال عبدالله : يا أميرالمؤمنين سلني عن امي فأنا أعلم بها وسل الكلبي عن امه فهو أعلم بها.

Hesham ibn Abd-al Malik asks Abdallah ibn Hassan (Imam Hassam's son): How long did Fatima(s) live?...he replied: 30 years.

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