Were the Prophet's marriages to Aisha & Hafsa a colossal mistake?

[Cool]

9 hours ago, Ibn al-Hussain said:

How on Earth is he supposed to know what will happen right after he dies,

Prophet (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم) not informed Ummul Momineen Salma, about the martyrdom of Imam Hussain (عليه السلام)? 

[Muhammed Ali]

8 hours ago, khamosh21 said:

no ones really explained what was the benefit to Islam and the ummah from these marriages?

What if potentially there would have been no Islam without these marriages?

These people may have set up opposing factions during the life of the Prophet {s}. You must remember that the early Muslims were a very small number against a large group. He {s} needed support to achieve the goals. Also with all the praise and important responsibilities that Imam Ali {s} was getting, it may have alienated the likes of Abu Bakr; so to keep him happy the Prophet {s} married his daughter.

And we get to learn a lot by observing how these people acted. E.g. how to judge character. 

Edited September 1, 2019 by Muhammed Ali

[Ibn Al-Shahid]

If anything, those marriages teach you how to live with people who hate you. It was a very strategic plan. Omar and Abu Bakr are historically known to not like Muhammad صل الله عليه واله. (There’s a chapter in the Qur'an about it.) When you get married you marry the family, not the person only. And when you do so, the family has no choice but to make a peace treaty with you and accept you. It lessens the issues between people.

[Guest Light]

Hmmm, @Ibn al-Hussain-

Who is Imamin Mubeen according to Shia hadith books?

Surah Ya Seen, Verse 12:
إِنَّا نَحْنُ نُحْيِي الْمَوْتَىٰ وَنَكْتُبُ مَا قَدَّمُوا وَآثَارَهُمْ وَكُلَّ شَيْءٍ أَحْصَيْنَاهُ فِي إِمَامٍ مُّبِينٍ

Surely We give life to the dead, and We write down what they have sent before and their footprints, and We have recorded everything in a clear writing.
(English - Shakir)

[khamosh21]

lets stick to facts. does anyone know what were the historical circumstances that led to these marriages? what need and purpose did they serve, besides guessing, what's the actual history behind them, what actually happened?

[Abu Hadi]

12 hours ago, khamosh21 said:

nice theories. no doubt this question has been asked before, what did the Prophet or Imams have to say about these marriages? anything? our scholars? 

no ones really explained what was the benefit to Islam and the ummah from these marriages?

Like some have already said, it is possible that the Ummah wouldnt have existed without these marriages. Both Abu Bakr and Umar were from prominent tribes in the area around Mecca. When Rasoulallah married these women, this secured the loyalty of these tribes and many from these tribes, including Abu Bakr and Umar themselves at certain times defended and promoted Islam in the early days when there were only a few thousand Muslims and tens of thousands of Kuffar who fought against Rasoulallah. This was the a very precarious and difficult time for Muslims and Rasoulallah needed all the allies he could get. 

Our Sunni brothers don’t support and praise these two for no reason and some people make it seem like they never did a good deed in their whole lives. It is very possible that at a certain point in their lives, early on before Saqifa, they were sincere and believed in Rasoulallah and what he was trying to accomplish. Of course they threw away all their good deeds because of their jealousy of Imam Ali((عليه السلام)) and their lust for power. 

[khamosh21]

8 hours ago, Abu Hadi said:

Like some have already said, it is possible that the Ummah wouldnt have existed without these marriages. Both Abu Bakr and Umar were from prominent tribes in the area around Mecca. When Rasoulallah married these women, this secured the loyalty of these tribes and many from these tribes, including Abu Bakr and Umar themselves at certain times defended and promoted Islam in the early days when there were only a few thousand Muslims and tens of thousands of Kuffar who fought against Rasoulallah. This was the a very precarious and difficult time for Muslims and Rasoulallah needed all the allies he could get. 

Our Sunni brothers don’t support and praise these two for no reason and some people make it seem like they never did a good deed in their whole lives. It is very possible that at a certain point in their lives, early on before Saqifa, they were sincere and believed in Rasoulallah and what he was trying to accomplish. Of course they threw away all their good deeds because of their jealousy of Imam Ali((عليه السلام)) and their lust for power. 

all I have heard so far is "it is possible...", "maybe..." guys c'mon... we are Shia, we are supposed to know history aren't we?...any definitive answers as to why these marriages took place? must have been at least after the Prophet was 50, at least 10 years or more after he declared him self a Prophet... 

lets here the story, what happened at the time? or at least refer me to a book where one could find out...

[khamosh21]

something must have happened right, the Prophet must have seen a dream, maybe Gabriel came down...

and really the Prophet and Islam sound pretty damn weak if their dependent on these marriages... just think about it, you're saying Allah and His Prophet had no choice but to marry these women for the survival of Islam, who also later on play a role in misguiding thousands if not millons (battle of jamal alone is a great example)... sounds absurd. 

[The Green Knight]

Audhubillah .. the history of Prophets will quite often tell of such wives .. but they are not "colossal mistakes".

[Abu_Zahra]

16 minutes ago, khamosh21 said:

something must have happened right, the Prophet must have seen a dream, maybe Gabriel came down...

and really the Prophet and Islam sound pretty damn weak if their dependent on these marriages... just think about it, you're saying Allah and His Prophet had no choice but to marry these women for the survival of Islam, who also later on play a role in misguiding thousands if not millons (battle of jamal alone is a great example)... sounds absurd. 

As I mentioned in my previous post, these marriages were not the basis of the dispute over the caliphate. Your entire argument is based on the hypothesis that the marriages 'damaged' Islam for years to come whereas there is no basis for such a claim.

Wallahu a'lam 

[Guest Light]

Surah At-Tahrim, Verse 10:
ضَرَبَ اللَّهُ مَثَلًا لِّلَّذِينَ كَفَرُوا امْرَأَتَ نُوحٍ وَامْرَأَتَ لُوطٍ كَانَتَا تَحْتَ عَبْدَيْنِ مِنْ عِبَادِنَا صَالِحَيْنِ فَخَانَتَاهُمَا فَلَمْ يُغْنِيَا عَنْهُمَا مِنَ اللَّهِ شَيْئًا وَقِيلَ ادْخُلَا النَّارَ مَعَ الدَّاخِلِينَ

Allah sets forth an example to those who disbelieve the wife of Nuh and the wife of Lut: they were both under two of Our righteous servants, but they acted treacherously towards them so they availed them naught against Allah, and it was said: Enter both the fire with those who enter.
(English - Shakir)

[Ashvazdanghe]

Salam

I think it mostly backs to free choice in acceptin true or wrong way 

 

Edited September 2, 2019 by Ashvazdanghe

[Ashvazdanghe]

11 hours ago, Cool said:

Prophet (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم) not informed Ummul Momineen Salma, about the martyrdom of Imam Hussain (عليه السلام)? 

Salam he informed about it from angel Gabriel that it revealed by Allah through great arch angel Jibraeal  , the ilm ul ghayb completely for Allah but gives a portion of it to anyone that he wants that person must be capable of holding of it that Prophet Muhammad (pbu) & Imams (عليه السلام) had this capability but they said that they receive it from Allah & it's not a self knowledge  that they only use it in condition  that people don't think that they are God or something like that so they were only using it front of closed persons that could tolerate it .

1 hour ago, khamosh21 said:

something must have happened right, the Prophet must have seen a dream, maybe Gabriel came down...

and really the Prophet and Islam sound pretty damn weak if their dependent on these marriages... just think about it, you're saying Allah and His Prophet had no choice but to marry these women for the survival of Islam, who also later on play a role in misguiding thousands if not millons (battle of jamal alone is a great example)... sounds absurd. 

Salam he & Islam weren't dependent on these marriage but choosing this way was the best way without engaging in hard wars & shedding bloods of most of tribes , if you see comments of anti Islamic persons despite his peacefull manner with Jews they call him as a war monger on a report from a battle with Jews that historians under influence of Jews exaggerated in violence & blood shedding in battle Banu Quraizah that Prophet Muhammd (pbu) could continue his aggressive war with other non mulim tribe & forces them to convert to Islam by force & accept Imamate of Imam Ali (عليه السلام) & other Imams by Iron fist & nobody could blame him for that but his policy was spreading Islam by peace & reasoning  that marriage was best peaceful tool during his lifetime & between Arabs tribes that even islamophobes are accusing him to child marriage & (رضي الله عنه).p.e based on Sunni books that highly affected by ex jewish rabbis & close persons to them like as Abu Huraira like as Ka'b Al Ahbar that their trace in fabricating & forging narration cleared from history or they have untochable status between Sunnis .

[Ashvazdanghe]

2 hours ago, khamosh21 said:

something must have happened right, the Prophet must have seen a dream, maybe Gabriel came down...

and really the Prophet and Islam sound pretty damn weak if their dependent on these marriages... just think about it, you're saying Allah and His Prophet had no choice but to marry these women for the survival of Islam, who also later on play a role in misguiding thousands if not millons (battle of jamal alone is a great example)... sounds absurd. 

2 hours ago, khamosh21 said:

all I have heard so far is "it is possible...", "maybe..." guys c'mon... we are Shia, we are supposed to know history aren't we?...any definitive answers as to why these marriages took place? must have been at least after the Prophet was 50, at least 10 years or more after he declared him self a Prophet... 

lets here the story, what happened at the time? or at least refer me to a book where one could find out...

https://www.al-Islam.org/articles/how-old-was-ayshah-when-she-married-Prophet-Muhammad-ayatullah-Muhammad-husayn-husayni-al

[khamosh21]

45 minutes ago, Ashvazdanghe said:

https://www.al-Islam.org/articles/how-old-was-ayshah-when-she-married-Prophet-Muhammad-ayatullah-Muhammad-husayn-husayni-al

I went through these before, not thoroughly... they are about Aisha's age... as I said I don’t care abt her age in this topic, but the circumstances that led to the marriage... no one has told us the wonderful story of Abu Bakr asking the Prophet to marry his daughter, or was it the other way round? what events led to the marriage?

[khamosh21]

2 hours ago, Mahdavist said:

As I mentioned in my previous post, these marriages were not the basis of the dispute over the caliphate. Your entire argument is based on the hypothesis that the marriages 'damaged' Islam for years to come whereas there is no basis for such a claim.

Wallahu a'lam 

I wasnt referring to the caliphate, what about all the hadith Aisha made up and rest her overall impact on Sunni fiqh, aqaid, Islam etc plus her role in battle if jamal 

[Logic1234]

On 9/1/2019 at 12:57 PM, khamosh21 said:

Why did the Prophet marry Aisha and Hafsa (Abu Bakr and Omar's daughters)? What were the motivations and benefits (short and long term)? In terms of the Prophet's divine mission what role did these marriages play?

Salam, 

I look at this matter from a different perspective. If we consider the perspective of divine knowledge, it was in the divine knowledge that these two would create problems for the ummah, perhaps that would be the reason that Almighty Lord has selected these two to couple with the best of His creation present on Earth at that time and have arranged for these two special way of guidance so that they can learn from the best of the Allah's creation. 

They don't have an excuse at the end of the day that they don't knew anything. They in fact knew everything but they selected the wrong way for themselves and have ignored the special blessings of Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) which these two have availed in the form of enjoying the status as wives of His messenger and enjoyed his blessed company, saw his way of life and listen to his teachings and listened to the revelation from his holy mouth. 

Viewing through this angle would produce another question, what about the rest of 7-8 wives? Well for them I apply the theory of our scholars mentioned earlier by my various brothers I.e., tribal connections etc. Even though the scope of "special arrangement of guidance" would also remain there, that's why the wives of Prophet (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم) will receive double the punishment for any severe misconduct, this is mentioned in Qur'an.

Another reason of Prophet's marriages is to teach us lessons & to guide us, for instance, you can see the marriage of Prophet (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم) with Ummul Mo'mineen Lady Zaynab. Qur'an states this about this marriage:

33:37) . But when Zaid had accomplished his want of her, We gave her to you as a wife, so that there should be no difficulty for the believers in respect of the wives of their adopted sons, when they have accomplished their want of them; and Allah's command shall be performed.

Similarly, some marriages of Prophet (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم) is specifically for the example & lesson for the next generations. At the end of Chapter 66, you will find couple of verses mentioning this fact, the wives of Prophet Nuh (عليه السلام) and Prophet Lut (عليه السلام) were examples and the wife of Fir'on too is an example. 

May Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) shower countless blessings on Holy Prophet Muhammad (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم) & his pure progeny. 

Allahumma salli ala Muhammadin wa Aali Muhammad

 

Edited September 2, 2019 by Logic1234

[Abu Hadi]

5 hours ago, khamosh21 said:

something must have happened right, the Prophet must have seen a dream, maybe Gabriel came down...

and really the Prophet and Islam sound pretty damn weak if their dependent on these marriages... just think about it, you're saying Allah and His Prophet had no choice but to marry these women for the survival of Islam, who also later on play a role in misguiding thousands if not millons (battle of jamal alone is a great example)... sounds absurd. 

Prophet Muhammad(p.b.u.h) as well as other Imams existed on Earth, in the real world. This is part of the test of being a Prophet  / Imam. They didn't live in some kind of virtual reality where all they had to do is snap their fingers and they could make anything happen. They Holy Qur'an even addresses this point directly, 

Say, "I hold not for myself [the power of] benefit or harm, except what Allah has willed. And if I knew the unseen, I could have acquired much wealth, and no harm would have touched me. I am not except a warner and a bringer of good tidings to a people who believe."

So for you to say 'its weak' that the Prophets and Imams((عليه السلام)) had to deal with realities on the ground means that you don't know about or don't understand the ayat above. The realities on the ground are a result of the sum total of the actions of the people who were around Rasoulallah(p.b.u.h). If the Arabs, from the beginning, had supported the Message of Islam and Rasoulallah(p.b.u.h) and not spent all their wealth and resources for decades after the announcement at the 'Feast of the Relatives' to fight against Rasoulallah(p.b.u.h) and the Message of Islam, then maybe their would have been enough support for Rasoulallah(p.b.u.h) not to have done these marriages. This is speculation, of course, because I, and noone else knows the unseen. Even Rasoulallah(p.b.u.h) only knew as much as Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) chose to share with him, and no more. 

Why did Imam Hassan((عليه السلام)) make the treaty with Muawiya(la) ? Are you one of those who would also say this showed weakness ? If you do I would ask you if you were in the same situation, with powerful enemies that were threatening (and you know that they would do this) to wipe out you and every last one of your supporters from the face of the Earth, and most of your army had just abandoned you, would you wait for Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) to send down a brigade of Malaika(Angels) to deal with your enemies ? Things don't work that way. If that were the case, Imam Hussein((عليه السلام)) would have done the same thing at Karbala. Part of the reason that we follow, admire, and emulate our Imams((عليه السلام)) and Prophet(p.b.u.h) is because they were born on the same Earth we were born on and have to deal with the same circumstances that we have to deal with. Yes, they have a special spiritual connection to Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى), but this doesn't give them 'Super powers' in the physical world. If that were the case, there would be no test. Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) says in the Holy Qur'an (first verses of Surat Ankaboot)

Do the people think that they will be left to say, "We believe" and they will not be tried?

But We have certainly tried those before them, and Allah will surely make evident those who are truthful, and He will surely make evident the liars.

The Prophet and Imams are not exempt from this test. This test is our purpose, all of us. It is why Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) sent us to this dunya. The difference between us and the Prophet and Imams((عليه السلام).) is that they were given the most difficult tests, and they passed them completely, and in the best way so as to set examples for us about how to pass this test we call the 'Hayat Ad Dunya' or Life of this lower world. 

 

[khamosh21]

2 hours ago, Abu Hadi said:

Prophet Muhammad(p.b.u.h) as well as other Imams existed on Earth, in the real world. This is part of the test of being a Prophet  / Imam. They didn't live in some kind of virtual reality where all they had to do is snap their fingers and they could make anything happen. They Holy Qur'an even addresses this point directly, 

Say, "I hold not for myself [the power of] benefit or harm, except what Allah has willed. And if I knew the unseen, I could have acquired much wealth, and no harm would have touched me. I am not except a warner and a bringer of good tidings to a people who believe."

So for you to say 'its weak' that the Prophets and Imams((عليه السلام)) had to deal with realities on the ground means that you don't know about or don't understand the ayat above. The realities on the ground are a result of the sum total of the actions of the people who were around Rasoulallah(p.b.u.h). If the Arabs, from the beginning, had supported the Message of Islam and Rasoulallah(p.b.u.h) and not spent all their wealth and resources for decades after the announcement at the 'Feast of the Relatives' to fight against Rasoulallah(p.b.u.h) and the Message of Islam, then maybe their would have been enough support for Rasoulallah(p.b.u.h) not to have done these marriages. This is speculation, of course, because I, and noone else knows the unseen. Even Rasoulallah(p.b.u.h) only knew as much as Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) chose to share with him, and no more. 

Why did Imam Hassan((عليه السلام)) make the treaty with Muawiya(la) ? Are you one of those who would also say this showed weakness ? If you do I would ask you if you were in the same situation, with powerful enemies that were threatening (and you know that they would do this) to wipe out you and every last one of your supporters from the face of the Earth, and most of your army had just abandoned you, would you wait for Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) to send down a brigade of Malaika(Angels) to deal with your enemies ? Things don't work that way. If that were the case, Imam Hussein((عليه السلام)) would have done the same thing at Karbala. Part of the reason that we follow, admire, and emulate our Imams((عليه السلام)) and Prophet(p.b.u.h) is because they were born on the same Earth we were born on and have to deal with the same circumstances that we have to deal with. Yes, they have a special spiritual connection to Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى), but this doesn't give them 'Super powers' in the physical world. If that were the case, there would be no test. Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) says in the Holy Qur'an (first verses of Surat Ankaboot)

Do the people think that they will be left to say, "We believe" and they will not be tried?

But We have certainly tried those before them, and Allah will surely make evident those who are truthful, and He will surely make evident the liars.

The Prophet and Imams are not exempt from this test. This test is our purpose, all of us. It is why Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) sent us to this dunya. The difference between us and the Prophet and Imams((عليه السلام).) is that they were given the most difficult tests, and they passed them completely, and in the best way so as to set examples for us about how to pass this test we call the 'Hayat Ad Dunya' or Life of this lower world. 

 

fair enough. maybe now someone can tell me the actual history, which if I have to guess seems no one knows. how is it possible to have any type of discussion without knowing the actual history surrounding those events. you give the example Imam Hassan's treaty with Muwaiya, this requires a thorough understanding of historical events.

Not a single reply in this thread addresses what happened at the time.

[khamosh21]

20 hours ago, Ibn al-Hussain said:

I have issues with this concept, but since that is not the topic of the thread and the matter is very extensive, I do not want to derail it.

Despite the fact that these traditions are found in Sunni works and the theological authority of this tradition for us to prove that the Prophet had 'Ilm ul-Ghayb in this specific case is extremely weak, we should still also look at how their scholars understood the tradition. There are other traditions in their works that imply that the fitnah would be from the East and that 'Ayesha's room was in Eastern direction with respect to the pulpit from which the Prophet (p) uttered these words. So it is possible that 'Ayesha herself and/or her house has no relevance at all in this fitnah. In any case, 'Ayesha's house is essentially the Prophet's house - in fact the husband is the head of the house.

Can you please tell me what did she do in the roughly 10 years of married life she was with him (p) that warrants him (p) to know or predict what she will be doing after him?

No one has an issue - not even the Sunnis - in cases where it is established that the Prophet (p) would be informed about some matter of the unseen or future, that he indeed knew some details like these. Despite that, it does not prove he (p) would have known all details (for example, in the case of Fatima (s) it is not necessarily the case that he would have known why she would be the first one to join him and that she would be attacked and so on) or that our first and initial presumption about his life is that he had 'Ilm ul-Ghayb about all matters of life that did not concern his direct role as a Prophet (p).

its irrelevant whether the Prophet knew the future or not. consider this, did the Prophet make any choices or decisions on his own? we believe he didn't say a single word of his own accord right?

God definitely knew the future and had the Prophet go through with this marriage... deeper question is to what extent does then God interfere in events?

[Cool]

37 minutes ago, khamosh21 said:

did the Prophet make any choices or decisions on his own?

Yes. He has the authority to make choices in different matters.

37 minutes ago, khamosh21 said:

deeper question is to what extent does then God interfere in events?

The matters related to the life of Prophet (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم) are specifically under direct monitoring of Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى), to the extent that when he decided to quit eating honey, Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) revealed a verse:

Surah At-Tahrim, Verse 1:
يَا أَيُّهَا النَّبِيُّ لِمَ تُحَرِّمُ مَا أَحَلَّ اللَّهُ لَكَ تَبْتَغِي مَرْضَاتَ أَزْوَاجِكَ وَاللَّهُ غَفُورٌ رَّحِيمٌ

O Prophet! why do you forbid (yourself) that which Allah has made lawful for you; you seek to please your wives; and Allah is Forgiving, Merciful.
(English - Shakir)

Question would arise here whether the Prophet (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم) forbid himself on his own or was it a divine plan to expose the two wives and issue a strict warning to them? 

Another event is mentioned in the verse quoted by @Logic1234 let me quote the complete verse to show you the divine intervention and planning:

Surah Al-Ahzab, Verse 37:
وَإِذْ تَقُولُ لِلَّذِي أَنْعَمَ اللَّهُ عَلَيْهِ وَأَنْعَمْتَ عَلَيْهِ أَمْسِكْ عَلَيْكَ زَوْجَكَ وَاتَّقِ اللَّهَ وَتُخْفِي فِي نَفْسِكَ مَا اللَّهُ مُبْدِيهِ وَتَخْشَى النَّاسَ وَاللَّهُ أَحَقُّ أَن تَخْشَاهُ فَلَمَّا قَضَىٰ زَيْدٌ مِّنْهَا وَطَرًا زَوَّجْنَاكَهَا لِكَيْ لَا يَكُونَ عَلَى الْمُؤْمِنِينَ حَرَجٌ فِي أَزْوَاجِ أَدْعِيَائِهِمْ إِذَا قَضَوْا مِنْهُنَّ وَطَرًا وَكَانَ أَمْرُ اللَّهِ مَفْعُولًا

And when you said to him to whom Allah had shown favor and to whom you had shown a favor: Keep your wife to yourself and be careful of (your duty to) Allah; and you concealed in your soul what Allah would bring to light, and you feared men, and Allah had a greater right that you should fear Him. But when Zaid had accomplished his want of her, We gave her to you as a wife, so that there should be no difficulty for the believers in respect of the wives of their adopted sons, when they have accomplished their want of them; and Allah's command shall be performed.
(English - Shakir)

This is the most sensitive verse I have found in Qur'an, it tests the hearts of believers with strong shocks and exposes the disease of heart, so go through it with very careful manner. 

 

Edited September 2, 2019 by Cool

[Mortadakerim]

10 hours ago, khamosh21 said:

and really the Prophet and Islam sound pretty damn weak if their dependent on these marriages... just think about it, you're saying Allah and His Prophet had no choice but to marry these women for the survival of Islam, who also later on play a role in misguiding thousands if not millons (battle of jamal alone is a great example)... sounds absurd. 

What do you expect? A giant angel to come down and preach that if the pagan arabs worship Allah they will be in heaven?

No! What’s the point of testing them if there is no test?

Our Prophet (saas) had Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) on his side, but it wasn’t like he would do every task for the Prophet (saas). Spreading Islam through the tribe of Aisha was a very good and creative idea and our beloved Prophet made no mistakes.

There is no “maybe” or “I think”, everything the Prophet (saas) did was for Islam and not for himself. So if marrying Aisha will spread Islam, then who are we to question?

[Cool]

56 minutes ago, khamosh21 said:

did the Prophet make any choices or decisions on his own?

Here is the evidence from Qur'an that Prophet (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم) had the option of giving permission:

Surah An-Noor, Verse 62:
إِنَّمَا الْمُؤْمِنُونَ الَّذِينَ آمَنُوا بِاللَّهِ وَرَسُولِهِ وَإِذَا كَانُوا مَعَهُ عَلَىٰ أَمْرٍ جَامِعٍ لَّمْ يَذْهَبُوا حَتَّىٰ يَسْتَأْذِنُوهُ إِنَّ الَّذِينَ يَسْتَأْذِنُونَكَ أُولَٰئِكَ الَّذِينَ يُؤْمِنُونَ بِاللَّهِ وَرَسُولِهِ فَإِذَا اسْتَأْذَنُوكَ لِبَعْضِ شَأْنِهِمْ فَأْذَن لِّمَن شِئْتَ مِنْهُمْ وَاسْتَغْفِرْ لَهُمُ اللَّهَ إِنَّ اللَّهَ غَفُورٌ رَّحِيمٌ

Only those are believers who believe in Allah and His Apostle, and when they are with him on a momentous affair they go not away until they have asked his permission; surely they who ask your permission are they who believe in Allah and His Apostle; so when they ask your permission for some affair of theirs, give permission to whom you please of them and ask forgiveness for them from Allah; surely Allah is Forgiving, Merciful.
(English - Shakir)

Lets now see at another place, what Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) is saying:

Surah At-Taubah, Verse 43:
عَفَا اللَّهُ عَنكَ لِمَ أَذِنتَ لَهُمْ حَتَّىٰ يَتَبَيَّنَ لَكَ الَّذِينَ صَدَقُوا وَتَعْلَمَ الْكَاذِبِينَ

Allah pardon you! Why did you give them leave until those who spoke the truth had become manifest to you and you had known the liars?
(English - Shakir)

 

[Abu_Zahra]

7 hours ago, khamosh21 said:

I wasnt referring to the caliphate, what about all the hadith Aisha made up and rest her overall impact on Sunni fiqh, aqaid, Islam etc plus her role in battle if jamal 

There were others who fabricated many more narrations like Abu Hurairah and some who spread more fitnah like Muawiya. If you follow this line of thinking you will find that your real questions are a lot more general: why does Satan exist? Why does evil exist? Why do people suffer? 

What you're seeking is a form of utopia or paradise where man is never tested through trials or tribulations. Heaven on Earth.

Wallahu a'lam  

 

[khamosh21]

5 hours ago, Cool said:

Yes. He has the authority to make choices in different matters.

The matters related to the life of Prophet (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم) are specifically under direct monitoring of Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى), to the extent that when he decided to quit eating honey, Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) revealed a verse:

Surah At-Tahrim, Verse 1:
يَا أَيُّهَا النَّبِيُّ لِمَ تُحَرِّمُ مَا أَحَلَّ اللَّهُ لَكَ تَبْتَغِي مَرْضَاتَ أَزْوَاجِكَ وَاللَّهُ غَفُورٌ رَّحِيمٌ

O Prophet! why do you forbid (yourself) that which Allah has made lawful for you; you seek to please your wives; and Allah is Forgiving, Merciful.
(English - Shakir)

Question would arise here whether the Prophet (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم) forbid himself on his own or was it a divine plan to expose the two wives and issue a strict warning to them? 

Another event is mentioned in the verse quoted by @Logic1234 let me quote the complete verse to show you the divine intervention and planning:

Surah Al-Ahzab, Verse 37:
وَإِذْ تَقُولُ لِلَّذِي أَنْعَمَ اللَّهُ عَلَيْهِ وَأَنْعَمْتَ عَلَيْهِ أَمْسِكْ عَلَيْكَ زَوْجَكَ وَاتَّقِ اللَّهَ وَتُخْفِي فِي نَفْسِكَ مَا اللَّهُ مُبْدِيهِ وَتَخْشَى النَّاسَ وَاللَّهُ أَحَقُّ أَن تَخْشَاهُ فَلَمَّا قَضَىٰ زَيْدٌ مِّنْهَا وَطَرًا زَوَّجْنَاكَهَا لِكَيْ لَا يَكُونَ عَلَى الْمُؤْمِنِينَ حَرَجٌ فِي أَزْوَاجِ أَدْعِيَائِهِمْ إِذَا قَضَوْا مِنْهُنَّ وَطَرًا وَكَانَ أَمْرُ اللَّهِ مَفْعُولًا

And when you said to him to whom Allah had shown favor and to whom you had shown a favor: Keep your wife to yourself and be careful of (your duty to) Allah; and you concealed in your soul what Allah would bring to light, and you feared men, and Allah had a greater right that you should fear Him. But when Zaid had accomplished his want of her, We gave her to you as a wife, so that there should be no difficulty for the believers in respect of the wives of their adopted sons, when they have accomplished their want of them; and Allah's command shall be performed.
(English - Shakir)

This is the most sensitive verse I have found in Qur'an, it tests the hearts of believers with strong shocks and exposes the disease of heart, so go through it with very careful manner. 

5 hours ago, Cool said:

Yes. He has the authority to make choices in different matters.

The matters related to the life of Prophet (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم) are specifically under direct monitoring of Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى), to the extent that when he decided to quit eating honey, Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) revealed a verse:

Surah At-Tahrim, Verse 1:
يَا أَيُّهَا النَّبِيُّ لِمَ تُحَرِّمُ مَا أَحَلَّ اللَّهُ لَكَ تَبْتَغِي مَرْضَاتَ أَزْوَاجِكَ وَاللَّهُ غَفُورٌ رَّحِيمٌ

O Prophet! why do you forbid (yourself) that which Allah has made lawful for you; you seek to please your wives; and Allah is Forgiving, Merciful.
(English - Shakir)

Question would arise here whether the Prophet (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم) forbid himself on his own or was it a divine plan to expose the two wives and issue a strict warning to them? 

Another event is mentioned in the verse quoted by @Logic1234 let me quote the complete verse to show you the divine intervention and planning:

Surah Al-Ahzab, Verse 37:
وَإِذْ تَقُولُ لِلَّذِي أَنْعَمَ اللَّهُ عَلَيْهِ وَأَنْعَمْتَ عَلَيْهِ أَمْسِكْ عَلَيْكَ زَوْجَكَ وَاتَّقِ اللَّهَ وَتُخْفِي فِي نَفْسِكَ مَا اللَّهُ مُبْدِيهِ وَتَخْشَى النَّاسَ وَاللَّهُ أَحَقُّ أَن تَخْشَاهُ فَلَمَّا قَضَىٰ زَيْدٌ مِّنْهَا وَطَرًا زَوَّجْنَاكَهَا لِكَيْ لَا يَكُونَ عَلَى الْمُؤْمِنِينَ حَرَجٌ فِي أَزْوَاجِ أَدْعِيَائِهِمْ إِذَا قَضَوْا مِنْهُنَّ وَطَرًا وَكَانَ أَمْرُ اللَّهِ مَفْعُولًا

And when you said to him to whom Allah had shown favor and to whom you had shown a favor: Keep your wife to yourself and be careful of (your duty to) Allah; and you concealed in your soul what Allah would bring to light, and you feared men, and Allah had a greater right that you should fear Him. But when Zaid had accomplished his want of her, We gave her to you as a wife, so that there should be no difficulty for the believers in respect of the wives of their adopted sons, when they have accomplished their want of them; and Allah's command shall be performed.
(English - Shakir)

This is the most sensitive verse I have found in Qur'an, it tests the hearts of believers with strong shocks and exposes the disease of heart, so go through it with very careful manner. 

 

 

4 hours ago, Mortadakerim said:

What do you expect? A giant angel to come down and preach that if the pagan arabs worship Allah they will be in heaven?

No! What’s the point of testing them if there is no test?

Our Prophet (saas) had Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) on his side, but it wasn’t like he would do every task for the Prophet (saas). Spreading Islam through the tribe of Aisha was a very good and creative idea and our beloved Prophet made no mistakes.

There is no “maybe” or “I think”, everything the Prophet (saas) did was for Islam and not for himself. So if marrying Aisha will spread Islam, then who are we to question?

 

4 hours ago, Cool said:

Here is the evidence from Qur'an that Prophet (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم) had the option of giving permission:

Surah An-Noor, Verse 62:
إِنَّمَا الْمُؤْمِنُونَ الَّذِينَ آمَنُوا بِاللَّهِ وَرَسُولِهِ وَإِذَا كَانُوا مَعَهُ عَلَىٰ أَمْرٍ جَامِعٍ لَّمْ يَذْهَبُوا حَتَّىٰ يَسْتَأْذِنُوهُ إِنَّ الَّذِينَ يَسْتَأْذِنُونَكَ أُولَٰئِكَ الَّذِينَ يُؤْمِنُونَ بِاللَّهِ وَرَسُولِهِ فَإِذَا اسْتَأْذَنُوكَ لِبَعْضِ شَأْنِهِمْ فَأْذَن لِّمَن شِئْتَ مِنْهُمْ وَاسْتَغْفِرْ لَهُمُ اللَّهَ إِنَّ اللَّهَ غَفُورٌ رَّحِيمٌ

Only those are believers who believe in Allah and His Apostle, and when they are with him on a momentous affair they go not away until they have asked his permission; surely they who ask your permission are they who believe in Allah and His Apostle; so when they ask your permission for some affair of theirs, give permission to whom you please of them and ask forgiveness for them from Allah; surely Allah is Forgiving, Merciful.
(English - Shakir)

Lets now see at another place, what Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) is saying:

Surah At-Taubah, Verse 43:
عَفَا اللَّهُ عَنكَ لِمَ أَذِنتَ لَهُمْ حَتَّىٰ يَتَبَيَّنَ لَكَ الَّذِينَ صَدَقُوا وَتَعْلَمَ الْكَاذِبِينَ

Allah pardon you! Why did you give them leave until those who spoke the truth had become manifest to you and you had known the liars?
(English - Shakir)

 

 

4 hours ago, Mahdavist said:

There were others who fabricated many more narrations like Abu Hurairah and some who spread more fitnah like Muawiya. If you follow this line of thinking you will find that your real questions are a lot more general: why does Satan exist? Why does evil exist? Why do people suffer? 

What you're seeking is a form of utopia or paradise where man is never tested through trials or tribulations. Heaven on Earth.

Wallahu a'lam  

 

Not a single reply in this thread addresses what happened at the time. It's pointless to discuss an event without knowing the history around it.

[Flying_Eagle]

On 9/1/2019 at 12:57 PM, khamosh21 said:

Salaam... 

I've tried searching for this and seen many threads on shiachat previously asking this with no real answer. Most topics end up being about Aisha's age, this is absolutely not the focus of my questions.

Why did the Prophet marry Aisha and Hafsa (Abu Bakr and Omar's daughters)? What were the motivations and benefits (short and long term)? In terms of the Prophet's divine mission what role did these marriages play?

Suppose there were some benefits such as tribal political unity... seen 1400 years later one has to admit the long term damage done to Islam by these marriages can't be denied... the Prophet essentially handed power and legitmacy over to hypocrites and enemies of Islam. Most of the ummah has been led away from Ahlul Bayt, not towards them, partially due to these marriages... really at the end of the day what was the point? This is supposedly the last and best Prophet sent to mankind, and he can't even make good marriage decsions?

It is very unfortunate that you think so lowly of Prophet (PBUHHP) that you compared his marriage to be like those of kings to obtain material gains. Prophet (PBUHHP) already rose as Prophet without the help of Umer and Abu Bakar and had established the religion in Medina. So, from this you should ascertain that reason of marriage was not political. Now, you should think other way round who said after demise of Prophet that they are eligible for Caliphate because they are relatives of Prophet. Prophet (PBUHHP) did favor upon them that he accepted their daughter when they offered their proposal and didn't reject it so that they may not think of themselves as neglected. Prophet (PBUHHP) never asked their hands but were offered such proposals. If he would have rejected it, people would have pointed fingers at those girls for being bad omen. Since you have no time to think that deep, those questions are going to creep in your brain.

[Ibn al-Hussain]

On 9/1/2019 at 10:55 PM, Cool said:

"In tatooba ilallahe faqad saghat quloobokuma" 

In ten years of marriage, all you can find is one marital issues between her and the Prophet (p) - where verses are revealed condemning her and also admonishing the Prophet at the same time? Do husband and wife together, or one party (husband or the wife) not get into disputes and issues with one another during the course of their married life? Is that so abnormal and strange? How would that by any means warrant that the Prophet (p) should have known she will lead a war against Imam 'Ali (a) almost 3 decades after his demise? What does the actual event that caused the verses of Tahreem to be revealed have to do with her waging war against the caliph of her time 3 decades later? There is no connection between these two things.

As for her questioning the Prophet (p) how he knew, that it self can be used as an alibi to show it was not normal for the Prophet (p) to know all things, especially about personal secrets kept between people, hidden from the Prophet (p). When he told her about it, it came to her as a shock (there are historical discrepancies on who this wife was), but this was an exception to the rule and the Prophet (p) was informed about it by Allah, and he later used this knowledge to inform her of what she was up to. He didn't just possess the knowledge and continued to pretend like he doesn't know what's going on, like an actor.

Quote

To prove that Prophet (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم) had ilm ul ghayb, the verses of Sura e Jinn (already quoted) are sufficient.

You are quoting verses that have nothing to do with 'Ilm ul-Ghayb the way you are defining it as a principle - that it is something he always possessed at all times. Neither do scholars use these verses to prove their theological case. I don't get what you are defending? No one is saying the Prophet (p) was not informed about matters of the unseen or things that would occur in the future or things that would not normally be known by a person if another human contemporary to them didn't inform them of it. What we are saying is that these were exceptional situations, and when the Prophet was granted this knowledge, he would actually do something with it, he would change his course of action, and make decisions based off of it. What you are trying to defend is that the Prophet (p) had this type of knowledge at all times, and on top of that, possessing this knowledge did not always lead him to even change anything about his decisions or actions. I am arguing that the principle is that: he (p) did not know the unseen unless proven otherwise in exceptional situations, and that this knowledge caused him to either change a decision and make amendments, or he would warn the companions about what is to come in the future, and so on. It was not something that he simply possessed, and yet he continued to act and pretend as if he doesn't know.

On 9/1/2019 at 11:00 PM, starlight said:

She was very jealous of Hazrat Khadija(عليه السلام) and her daughter Fatima (sa) and this showed in her actions. 

People are jealous of others in their lives all the time - this is nothing unique to 'Ayesha, in fact when it comes to women it is an even more common trait. That is how the Prophet (p) seems to have dealt with it as well - as a pretty normal and expected thing in some women. Sometimes you can make some predictions or judgement regarding a person based off their jealousy towards someone, to a certain extent, but I do not see anything in the 10 years of married life that would warrant the Prophet (p) to believe that her jealousy would lead to a full-blown war 3 decades after he (p) dies. I mean, it was not even known that Imam 'Ali would become a caliph 3 decades later, so how could he (p) have known there would be a war between the two.

The Prophet (p) divorced a number of women during his life, in fact as per the numerous reports, he also either divorced Hafsa or had decided to divorce her but was commanded by Allah to remarry her or abstain from divorcing her (depending on the version of events you accept), however he (p) never reached a stage where he divorced 'Ayesha. When one's perspective on someone is so immensely biased and negative, fed by years and years of negativity from the pulpits without care for any real historical accuracy, people cannot easily discern between the different periods of a person's life. What 'Ayesha did after the Prophet (p) becomes the criterion to judge her during her teenage years as a wife of the Prophet (p) in Medina. This is just a very poor approach to studying the lives of any human.

Also how far are people to going to go with the 'Ilm ul-Ghayb? After the conquest of Makkah and the conversion of many polytheists such as Abu Sufyan and other members of the Bani Umayyah, the Prophet literally granted them positions of power and a lot of wealth. The house of Abu Sufyan was deemed the house of security, he (p) gave positions of authority to a number of members of the Bani Umayyah - he sent Abu Sufyan towards Najran as a representative to collect taxes, he made 'Attab b. Asid (or Usayd) as a governor of Makkah, 'Uthman b. Abu al-Aas as governor of Taif, Khalid b. Sa'id as a person of authority in Yemen, 'Uthman b. Sa'eed as governor of Khayber, Aban b. Sa'eed as governor of Bahrayn and so on. In fact he did not even give one member from the Bani Hashim any position of power. After the battle of Hunayn he didn't give much war booty to the Ansar, rather he gave 200 camels to Abu Sufyan and a 100 to Mu'awiyah - most of it was distributed amongst the Bani Umayyah. This is just a couple of years before the Prophet's (p) demise.

As for @khamosh21 - the Shi'as have no clear historical report telling us why he married her, all we have are historical speculations. Most presume it was because he wanted to get closer to Abu Bakr and strengthen his ties with him and this is a very reasonable explanation. The Sunnis have some other analysis based on some reports they have, but the Shi'as could never accept those traditions.

Edited September 2, 2019 by Ibn al-Hussain

[ZethaPonderer]

My answer to your question @khamosh21 would be to meditate and understand this question with another question. Can we as Human Beings comprehend the Knowledge of the Unseen (ilm ul ghayb)? The answer is a clear cut NO. Humans can only comprehend Knowledge that is Revealed/Seen, and do not possess the necessary means to grasp The Unseen Knowledge. And even then, Human Beings don't necessarily possess Knowledge of The Revealed/Seen with absolute certainty since Human Beings based on how they are born begin as Jaahils (Ignorant) from the start. Therefore a limitation has been placed upon Humans from Allah Himself.

It is up for Human Beings to decide if they wish to remain in their Jaahiliyat (Ignorance) status since birth to be even worse than an Animal or Seek Knowledge that is Revealed/Seen for them to be better people.

One of the 99 names of Allah is All-Knowing (Al-Aalim). Therefore He knows ALL types of Knowledge. Revealed/Seen, Unseen, and who knows what other types of Knowledge Allah knows with absolute certainty.

What are Prophets and Imams? Let's note down the similarities and differences as well,

• Prophets and Imams are Human Beings just like us, therefore they have limitations as a creation of Allah just like us, Jinns, and Angels. They eat, drink, sleep, and poop like the rest of us.
• However, unlike the rest of Human Beings they are divinely chosen from Allah to serve a divine purpose.
• Prophets are Messengers of Allah and their livelihood, breath, deeds are a reflection of the Revelation from Allah they spread on Humanity.
• Imams are Guardians that preserve The Revelation from Allah through His Prophets while also The Divinely Chosen Leader from Allah for Humanity.
• Not all Nabis are Rasuls, but all Rasuls are Nabis. A Rasul is a Prophet who is appointed from Allah to reveal a New Revelation from Allah, while a Nabi does not and only reveals The Revelation from Allah through the previous Rasuls.

All of my answers up above is in direct accordance of how I was taught within Shia Islam (Zaidi Branch) and Shia Islam (Jaafari Branch).

 

Now to answer your question directly, Is it a mistake for Prophet Muhammad (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم) to marry Aisha when Humans nowadays have understood that Aisha was not a good person?

To answer your question would be another question. Do you believe Prophet Muhammad (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم) who is considered as The Seal of All Prophets from Allah which would also mean that he is an amalgamation of ALL of the Previous Prophets/Apostles that came before him (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم), can FULLY COMPREHEND The Knowledge of Unseen like Allah can?

The answer to that is, they are creations of Allah just like us. So as creations of Allah, they have the ability to comprehend The Knowledge of Unseen with ABSOLUTENESS as long as its in relation to the Revelation from Allah they are chosen from Him to spread upon Humanity. If Prophet Muhammad (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم) along with the rest of the Nabis (عليه السلام) and Rasuls (عليه السلام) before him can comprehend 100% of The Knowledge of Unseen like Allah can, than they are just as All-Knowing (Al-Aalim) as Allah is which is contradictory since Al-Aalim is one of the 99 names of Allah.

Furthermore, the question itself is flawed and narrow-minded since previous Nabis and Rasuls (عليه السلام) before him (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم) also married women who are NOT good in character. For example, Prophet Noah/Nuh (AS)'s wife and Prophet Lot/Lut (AS)'s wife?

So what does the question itself tell us? That Prophet Muhammad (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم) is truly the Amalgamation of ALL of the Nabis and Rasuls (عليه السلام) before him. He truly is the Seal of ALL Prophets of Allah. The question also tells us that Prophet Muhammad (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم) is here to teach us just like Prophet Noah/Nuh (عليه السلام) and Prophet Lot/Lut (عليه السلام) did many years ago that in Marriage there will be compromises to make. You and your significant other might not be the best match at all as it may seem at first. Good and Evil live and flourish together in this world. Evil festers when you least expect it. Evil may look like its triumphing and trampling all over the Goodness of This World. But, Good ultimately does triumph over Evil in the end. Guess what happened to Aisha after Prophet Muhammad (SAW)'s return to the Afterlife through Martyrdom? The Battle of The Camel and her Humiliating Defeat landing in Camel Poop at the end.

To me, this is all part of Allah's plan. For Humanity to live up to Allah's expectations that Humans are His Best Creation on top of defeating Satan/Shaytan's ambitions and making him eat his own words.

That is all I want to convey. Peace (Salaam).

Edited September 2, 2019 by ZethaPonderer
Correcting and Adding furthermore in bold.

[ShiaMan14]

On 9/1/2019 at 2:57 AM, khamosh21 said:

Salaam... 

I've tried searching for this and seen many threads on shiachat previously asking this with no real answer. Most topics end up being about Aisha's age, this is absolutely not the focus of my questions.

Why did the Prophet marry Aisha and Hafsa (Abu Bakr and Omar's daughters)? What were the motivations and benefits (short and long term)? In terms of the Prophet's divine mission what role did these marriages play?

Suppose there were some benefits such as tribal political unity... seen 1400 years later one has to admit the long term damage done to Islam by these marriages can't be denied... the Prophet essentially handed power and legitmacy over to hypocrites and enemies of Islam. Most of the ummah has been led away from Ahlul Bayt, not towards them, partially due to these marriages... really at the end of the day what was the point? This is supposedly the last and best Prophet sent to mankind, and he can't even make good marriage decsions?

Allah is All-Knowing so why did he even give life to Abu Bakr, Umar, Aisha, Hafsa. Essentially Allah handed over power and legitimacy over to the hypocrites and enemies of Islam. Most of the ummah has been led away from the Ahlul Bayt, not towards them, partially due to these marriages...really at the end of the day what was the point?

[Cool]

5 hours ago, Ibn al-Hussain said:

He didn't just possess the knowledge and continued to pretend like he doesn't know what's going on, like an actor.

As for the beginning, you should be clear that I am not arguing that Prophet (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم) had ilm ul ghayb in an absolute manner.

To me ilm ul ghayb solely belongs to Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) and it came to Prophet when Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) allows it or will that knowledge to share with them. I believe on the divine words "wala yuhetoona be shayin min ilmehe" with the exception mentioned "illa bema sha'a". And I believe that even this exception does to allow any human to hold 100 percent of divine knowledge of unseen.

Now back to the points raised by you, Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) has sent Prophet (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم) as witness too. There are narrations in our hadith books which mentions that our deeds are presented before Imam of our time and the Prophet. From Al-Kafi to Hayat ul Quloob, there are numerious traditions mentioning this with reference to certain verses of Qur'an. Isn't itself an evidence about the vastness of his knowledge about each & every person? If these traditions are sahih, then consider that if I whisper into your ear any secret, this deed of mine would be presented before Imam of my time and before the Prophet. 

6 hours ago, Ibn al-Hussain said:

You are quoting verses that have nothing to do with 'Ilm ul-Ghayb the way you are defining it as a principle - that it is something he always possessed at all times.

You can view my comments from the beginning and the explanation given above.

6 hours ago, Ibn al-Hussain said:

I am arguing that the principle is that: he (p) did not know the unseen unless proven otherwise in exceptional situations, and that this knowledge caused him to either change a decision and make amendments, or he would warn the companions about what is to come in the future, and so on. It was not something that he simply possessed, and yet he continued to act and pretend as if he doesn't know.

And all I am arguing is that keeping in mind the verses of Qur'an as well as ahadith, we cannot simply rule out that Prophet (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم) has no knowledge of unseen. 

Other point is that the definition of unseen varies from person to person. Have we seen heavens & hell? Have we been to sidratil muntaha? Have we saw all the Prophets? Do we know the interpretation of the verses of Qur'an? Do we have that special type of knowledge through which we carryout a job within a second? We were not aware of the news when Prophet (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم) was telling us "awwalo ma khalaq Allaho noori". 

So I think it is better for us to keep in mind all the time that Imam of our time has special means of getting information so that none of us repeat the statement of Aisha as mentioned in Qur'an "man anba'aka hatha".

Wassalam

[khamosh21]

So one of the most important marriages in Islam, and Shias don't have any historical record of what happened, how, and why in reality it took place (not mere speculation)... no mention of it by their 12 perfect Imams, or their countless scholars... how does this make sense?

Also my problem isn't that the Prophet married someone of bad character, problem is the impact it is had on Islam and the ummah until now.

someone asked whats the point of it all... really what is the point of it all? thats really my fundamental question... I no longer understand the purpose of life as explained by Islam.

[Ashvazdanghe]

9 hours ago, Ibn al-Hussain said:

- this is nothing unique to 'Ayesha, in fact when it comes to women it is an even more common trait. That is how the Prophet (p) seems to have dealt with it as well - as a pretty normal and expected thing in some women. Sometimes you can make some predictions or judgement regarding a person based off their jealousy towards someone, to a certain extent, but I do not see anything in the 10 years of married life that would warrant the Prophet (p) to believe that her jealousy would lead to a full-blown war 3 decades after he (p) dies. I mean, it was not even known that Imam 'Ali would become a caliph 3 decades later, so how could he (p) have known there would be a war between the two.

Salam her jealously approved from both Sunni &Shia narration ,also Prophet (p) waned her about consequences of her action after his demise thta famous story of " Dogs of Hawab" is very well known that when Ayesha saw that prophecy was true refrained from engaging from war with Imam Ali (عليه السلام) but Talaha & Zubair and his son recruited fake witnesses that they are not in "Hawab"  & fooled her again 

9 hours ago, Ibn al-Hussain said:

After the conquest of Makkah and the conversion of many polytheists such as Abu Sufyan and other members of the Bani Umayyah, the Prophet literally granted them positions of power and a lot of wealth. The house of Abu Sufyan was deemed the house of security, he (p) gave positions of authority to a number of members of the Bani Umayyah - he sent Abu Sufyan towards Najran as a representative to collect taxes, he made 'Attab b. Asid (or Usayd) as a governor of Makkah, 'Uthman b. Abu al-Aas as governor of Taif, Khalid b. Sa'id as a person of authority in Yemen, 'Uthman b. Sa'eed as governor of Khayber, Aban b. Sa'eed as governor of Bahrayn and so on. In fact he did not even give one member from the Bani Hashim any position of power. After the battle of Hunayn he didn't give much war booty to the Ansar, rather he gave 200 camels to Abu Sufyan and a 100 to Mu'awiyah - most of it was distributed amongst the Bani Umayyah. This is just a couple of years before the Prophet's (p) demise.

Prophet (p) siad that they are Tulaqa & house of AbuSufayn must not have any share in power after his demise but he protected as rest of new Muslims of Mecca & gave them enough money to satisfy them by giving too much wealth to them and by not choosing someone from Banu Hashim as a governor tried to silence them about loosing their position before accepting Islam but sent them to furthest locations to reduce their influence also Prophet (p) exiled Hakam & his son Marwan (la) to deserts without money & power but Banu Ummayah & Abusyfyan hijacked leadership of Muslims after Prophet (p) demise & fabricated narrations about their authority that also Marawan Hakam (la) & his father despite direct order of Prophet (p) with help of third Caliph gained main role & authority over Muslims .

[Follower of Ahlulbayt]

On 9/2/2019 at 1:36 AM, Ibn al-Hussain said:

Presuming their authenticity, you can answer them just like you answer this verse:

وَنَزَّلۡنَا عَلَیۡكَ ٱلۡكِتَـٰبَ تِبۡیَـٰنࣰا لِّكُلِّ شَیۡءࣲ

How would you explain this verse?

I would say the verse is not speaking in absolute terms, but with regards to the hadith in Bukhari, it seems as if the Prophet was speaking in absolute terms. If we read the whole hadith, the companions asked the Prophet all sorts of random question such as if they would be in heaven or hell and one asked who his father was. 

My understanding of these narrations where the Prophet (s) and Imam Ali say "you will not ask me anything except that I will answer it" is that maybe Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) gave them the knowledge and answers to all the questions that the people were going to ask them at that time, and so that is why they made the challenge. But, this doesn't mean the Prophet (s) and Imam (a) knew absolutely every answer to every question and everything.  

Also, I wanted to ask, is having the belief that the Prophet and Imams have absolute knowledge of everything, but their knowledge is given to them from Allah (s) and their knowledge is a part of them (they are not knowledge itself, like Allah), kufr? You mentioned it was ghuluw, but did you mean by this that it is kufr, or that it is just baseless? 

Edited September 3, 2019 by Follower of Ahlulbayt

[Ashvazdanghe]

4 hours ago, khamosh21 said:

So one of the most important marriages in Islam, and Shias don't have any historical record of what happened, how, and why in reality it took place (not mere speculation)... no mention of it by their 12 perfect Imams, or their countless scholars... how does this make sense?

Also my problem isn't that the Prophet married someone of bad character, problem is the impact it is had on Islam and the ummah until now.

someone asked whats the point of it all... really what is the point of it all? thats really my fundamental question... I no longer understand the purpose of life as explained by Islam.

Salam the most important marriage in Islam was marriage of lady Fatimah (sa) with Imam Ali (عليه السلام) that Prophet (pbu) with a negative tactic rejected proposal from Abubakr & Umar & Uthman & maybe Abdul Rahman ibn uff for marriage with his daughter so it seams for making balance and protecting Imam Ali (عليه السلام) & Lady Fatima (sa) from trouble making of them he married with Ayesha that later in Sunni books they fabricated a story that Imam Ali (عليه السلام) was loving daughter of Abusfyan (la) & it made lady Fatima (sa) angry from him.

[khamosh21]

22 minutes ago, Ashvazdanghe said:

Salam the most important marriage in Islam was marriage of lady Fatimah (sa) with Imam Ali (عليه السلام) that Prophet (pbu) with a negative tactic rejected proposal from Abubakr & Umar & Uthman & maybe Abdul Rahman ibn uff for marriage with his daughter so it seams for making balance and protecting Imam Ali (عليه السلام) & Lady Fatima (sa) from trouble making of them he married with Ayesha that later in Sunni books they fabricated a story that Imam Ali (عليه السلام) was loving daughter of Abusfyan (la) & it made lady Fatima (sa) angry from him.

I'm not comparing the importance of one historical event over the other. any decision made by the Prophet is important, including a momumental marriage to a very important personality in Islam... how is it we have no info on it?