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In the Name of God بسم الله

Is homeschooling the best option?


Sumerian

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Seeing as the current cultural climate in the world is becoming more accepting of these we Muslims regard as degenerate and reprehensible - and this is all promoted as regular cirriculum in many places,not to mention the general layout of schools - especially mixed ones but also segregated ones - makes it extremely possible that one may fall into sin some way or another, would the best option be for Muslim parents to homeschool the future generations?

Discuss.

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Homeschooling is not even allowed were I currently live.

There are few Muslim schools but they (the government) are also not accepting of the teachings there and are discussing regarding making them illegal as well.

 

I think the best choice is to move to a Muslim country if possible. It is only going to get worse, thats what I have seen the last 15 years.

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Home schooled children have been tracked for 40 plus years now and in general are rated doing better than public schooled.

l talked to one man around here and he told me the parents split on subjects, one does biology because that is what they know, algebra the same way, and so forth. And some things all the parents know.

How to teach is the big hurtle.

Our mosque has a school but it is very expensive.

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It depends on the child and the parents too.

I homeschooled my son for one year, and he didn't do the work he needed to do because he didn't feel like it, and I'm not an authoritarian parent. I provided study materials based on his input and the requirements for his grade in public schools, and I explained expectations. He did great with assigned literature reading and easy writing, but only with much nagging would he do the work for math and science.

Maybe if we'd been doing homeschool all along he would have been used to self motivation and I would have learned his best learning style. We only did one year because we lived in a school zone which had a bad problem with gang violence.

My friends who have homeschooled started from preschool and their kids are much better at taking responsibility for their own education than public school kids are.

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11 minutes ago, King said:

I feel it should be a mix. Kids need to get out in the real world and learn to deal with difficult social situations and also experience life.  Parents should be actively involved with education at home.

Agree.

In some school districts, home schooled children are allowed full participation in school activities.

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If you can guarantee the child will be taught everything essential to pass exams and you aren't missing key subjects, then why not try it? 

My one issue with homeschooling is that you risk bubble wrapping your child, school is awful at times and yes they teach useless topics, but school does have its merits and gives life experiences that if a child doesn't go through then when they get to college, university or work they will be in for a really hard time. 

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In my country many Muslim parent send their kids to Muslim private schools. I think when it comes to education it is better that professionals deal with it. Even if parents mean well thy most often lac the necessary skills to teach a child. And also the school provide the social interactions that the children need in order to function in a society. So homeschooling should be the absolute last resort. Private schools doesn't need to be expensive or just for the elites. In my country there is a tradition of private schools being run by parents. The curriculum is the same as in public schools, but the parents get to choose the teachers so they have a say in how it is presented.

That being said I don't think that you can stop your children from sinning or from being let astray by shielding them from the world. I would think that other things are better, such as a good heart, knowledge, belief in God and even experience will make you reject sin.

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18 hours ago, Sumerian said:

Seeing as the current cultural climate in the world is becoming more accepting of these we Muslims regard as degenerate and reprehensible - and this is all promoted as regular cirriculum in many places,not to mention the general layout of schools - especially mixed ones but also segregated ones - makes it extremely possible that one may fall into sin some way or another, would the best option be for Muslim parents to homeschool the future generations?

Discuss.

The first, big hurdle in the mere thought of it would be somewhat like how reverts feel about everybody else they care about when they say goodbye to their religion. Schooling your children is a religion for the schooled. A very delicate matter, a very essential obligation towards their children, they the parents would think because that is what they learnt in their lives as children.

Once that hurdle is overcome and we are able to unbridle and put our minds to it, it can be an interesting discussion. As for me, I think today some human beings are simply inhuman. So when your child sits in class next to, say, a prostitute's child and they converse about, say, television, I shudder to imagine what my child will be learning. When I went to a school in the city of Lahore it was a school where merit (and not hefty donations) was the requisite for admission. That is not so today here. Today you can buy a judge for a slightly more sum of money than what you would pay a lawyer, and as a bonus you get away without risking your lawyer betraying you having been approached and paid by your opponent otherwise. I mean everything today in our society is about money. In a very well known university near my brother's place, Lahore University, all a guy has to have is oh about 500$ to take her choice of a girl shopping, and...... Its very well understood, its a social canon there. Being a Muslim nation, the people employ the services of a "Qari sahab" who will come home after Asr and teach Qur'an to the children, the Qari is quite often a young lad schooled in a madrassa. Too many times, it so happens that the Qari commits pedophilia. For that we reason even the Qari sahab who teaches Qur'an (Ironic init?) has to be watched by a parent. We do this.

The trouble with home schooling is just how you will go about managing all that? Don't you have car loads of money to make, to put dinner on the table? So a feasible way is that you will have to hire a tutor and that tutor must not be a vicious Z in disguise waiting to animalize and ruin the next thing it touches like so many of the rest so-called living today. And that tutor will still have their own problems and the solution will be that you have a lot of money. Probably less money than what you pay schools though. Then later the society will always frown on homeschooled even if they topped the results in government conducted board examinations, for whatever reason. The system will always discourage it but can not forbid it for the sake of those who can not attend schools for other reasons.

Edited by Darth Vader
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22 hours ago, Sumerian said:

Seeing as the current cultural climate in the world is becoming more accepting of these we Muslims regard as degenerate and reprehensible - and this is all promoted as regular cirriculum in many places,not to mention the general layout of schools - especially mixed ones but also segregated ones - makes it extremely possible that one may fall into sin some way or another, would the best option be for Muslim parents to homeschool the future generations?

Discuss.

This is here why I said to you that was better to live in a Muslim country in the past but you didn't want to accept my view. 

I think best solution would be to migrate to a Muslim country or homeschooling. 

 

 

 

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2 hours ago, Mohammadi_follower said:

This is here why I said to you that was better to live in a Muslim country in the past but you didn't want to accept my view. 

I think best solution would be to migrate to a Muslim country or homeschooling. 

 

 

 

I never even mentioned the West in my O.P. I asked the question in general, I'd say homeschooling should be an option even in Muslim countries. 

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As a future elementary school teacher, I would say that children attending public school (not Christian schools, charter schools, etc.) is paramount.

Public teachers (wether that’s k-8 certification or 6-12 single subject certification) are prepared vigorously to help students grow, learn, and develop their cognitive, emotional, and social development all within nine to ten months until they are sent off to a higher grade level. Learning targets must be met within that time, and only a teacher certified to teach public schools is truly qualified to accomplish what needs to be done. Additionally, the structure of a classroom environment and any other that a teacher will put into place for classroom management helps children absorb the material in a much more efficient manner. There is a lot of creativity, movement, and repetition, primarily at the elementary level, that helps children in which a teacher often stays after hours, sometimes until 10 PM, to get material prepared for the next day.

We teachers put a lot of effort and creativity for lesson plans and creative learning such as art and play and movement. Not to mention grading, filling out progress reports, attending meetings etc., all after hours and sometimes during weekends. We care about every child’s learning experience and we want every child to be the most successful, kindest version of themselves. 

We teachers learn the ins-and-outs of effective classroom management, how to facilitate group work as well as individual, and assess and help any children individually or in small group with any challenges they may face. Also, we know in depth child and adolescent psychology and development, especially with regards to learning styles, social skills, emotional regulation. We are trained to help students with accommodations and ESL students to get to where they need to be.

Children become a lot more confident as they attend school. Those who homeschool, while it is a valid and understandable option for some, will find that their child ends up sheltered, socially awkward, and has a much more difficult time adjusting to the real world and especially in university. 

Lastly, public school teachers continue to attend workshops and additional classes during the summer to update their teaching methods and implementing newer and researched techniques for a more successful generation to come. I find it mildly insulting that you made several blanket statements about public schools when quite frankly, you don’t know at all what goes into teaching children. You don’t know any developmental purposes and are seeing things from a very biased and limited angle. And no, not all teachers push haram curriculum. In fact, most don’t. 

Homeschooling is not as simple as teaching the material. If it were, then there would be no teacher preparation programs after your bachelor’s, no certification, no training.  And, although it might be hard to hear, parents are not qualified to teach. As for religion, it should be taught at home or while attending weekend religious schools to increase a child’s knowledge about Islam and the Ahlul Bayt (عليه السلام). 

Edited by Islandsandmirrors
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Lol to the people disagreeing: teachers are professionals. You wouldn’t tell a lawyer that you disagree with how they run their profession. You wouldn’t tell someone studying law that “you don’t need to attend university to learn.” So why do you think it’s okay to not respect teachers? Without public school, and especially without teachers, there would be no doctors, no lawyers, no psychologists, no engineers. It’s because somebody TAUGHT them the material.

You may disagree with my statement that public school is often the best option for your children to get a well-rounded education because that is simply your opinion, but you can’t disagree with the amount of effort and specialization it takes to actually know how to teach and to manage a classroom and correct behavioral issues. We are professionals, so we respect us as such. If teaching were easy, then everyone would become one. 

So leave teaching to the professionals who know their stuff. It’s not as simple as giving them the coursework to do at home.

Edited by Islandsandmirrors
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6 minutes ago, Islandsandmirrors said:

Lol to the people disagreeing: teachers are professionals. You wouldn’t tell a lawyer that you disagree with how they run their profession. You wouldn’t tell someone studying law that “you don’t need to attend university to learn.” So why do you think it’s okay to not respect teachers? Without public school, and especially without teachers, there would be no doctors, no lawyers, no psychologists, no engineers. It’s because somebody TAUGHT them the material.

You may disagree with my statement that public school is often the best option for your children to get a well-rounded education because that is simply your opinion, but you can’t disagree with the amount of effort and specialization it takes to actually know how to teach and to manage a classroom and correct behavioral issues. We are professionals, so we respect us as such. If teaching were easy, then everyone would become one. 

So leave teaching to the professionals who know their stuff. It’s not as simple as giving them the coursework to do at home.

Remember that home-schooling does not mean you never use teachers (either online or in person). We use tutors, online lessons, and even courses outside the home at the community college and technology center.

But the other issue is that the philosophy of homeschooling dictates that kids take ownership over their education, and enjoy learning new things. Ideally, they become self-motivated and curious. The days of 30 kids packed in a classroom being lectured to are coming to an end. That model alienates kids and makes them hate school. 

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22 hours ago, Sumerian said:

lol I think you can easily be socially active without school. 

No, apparently public schools are the only place you learn to communicate with other humans. Yet the only time people in my country are not socially handicapped is when they are drinking alcohol.

I wonder how the Ahlul Bayt(عليه السلام) would do had they lived in a society like that of open fasad, would they send their children to their schools to learn that it's ok to have bf/gf, that you should question your parents, that you can change your gender when you feel like it, that its a scientific fact that humans developed from monkeys, etc?

I do not think so.

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If I

a)  didn't have to work full time 

b) had access to some healthy social activities for kids 

I would be homeschooling them. No second thoughts about it. Schools waste so much time on extraneous subjects and I do not like my children socialising with kids of irresponsible parents. Irresponsible = parents allowing kids almost free use of gadgets,Internet, games, junk food,watching bollywood dramas and other crap they show on TV these days resulting in the children learning things from them and passing on the infection to their class mates, little girl wanting to wear makeup, make boyfriends etc.

 I have seen the social interaction negatively effect my children. I could easily teach them all the subjects with very little extra help till the time they leave for college. I silently suffer every school year when I see them wasting their precious time in learning useless things most of which are forgotten as soon as the school year ends.

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35 minutes ago, starlight said:

have seen the social interaction negatively effect my children. I could easily teach them all the subjects with very little extra help till the time they leave for college. I silently suffer every school year when I see them wasting their precious time in learning useless things most of which are forgotten as soon as the school year ends.

Where do you live? 

Make no mistake that teaching is a profession. Yes, there will be bad apples within districts who should never set a foot in a classroom, but to state that they are “wasting precious time learning useless things” is so disrespectful to the profession. If you live in Pakistan or anywhere in the Middle East, then I’d somewhat agree that the education system is a waste of time. 

But in the United States, it’s very different. Schools and districts/most states have implemented Common Core standards. This means that the standards of grade levels have been pushed back an entire grade. My third graders where I was assisting/volunteering were learning how to write essays, whereas back in the day, essay writing was introduced in the fourth grade and expected to be fully taught in the fifth. 

Have you ever seen inside a US public classroom? 

Also, Starlight, you are an educated member of society. You are a psychiatrist because you went to school. To bash teachers is very unprofessional and somewhat arrogant when you owe your teachers and professors for the education and training you got to be where you are today. I’m rather shocked that you would say such negative things about the profession. 

EDIT: here’s a bit of insight for you as to what goes on as a teacher. 

 

Edited by Islandsandmirrors
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I had home schooling for my grade 8 year and loved it.  By necessity, I learned responsibility and goal setting and self motivation and self study techniques that I used throughout the rest of my schooling and university and that I still use today.  My family moved around a bit and my father worked from home, so home schooling (they called it "distance education" though) was ideal.  The next year we moved to Qatar and no one worked at home during the day so I went to an international (British curriculum) school there.  Loved that too.  Met many different people and was exposed to ideas and ways of life that I never would have known enough about to explore or to appreciate because of being at home limited to my parents ideas of the world.  

So…down side of home schooling is the limited pool of thoughts and ideas and minimal socialization with peers; the upside is enhanced self awareness with greatly increased metacognition and higher order thinking skills.  When you are home schooled you need to organize and carry out your study yourself; in school you can choose to live in Lala land and someone else thinks for you.  I remember when I first went back to school, the teacher told the kids to open their books to a certain page and then told them to pick up their pens and get out paper to be ready to take notes that the teacher had made on the section we were studying.  I thought she was trying to be funny but looks like I was the only one laughing.  Felt like I was in training to be a robot. BUT… they had great field trips, and sports programs and fun lunch times.  

Don't know about Islamic schools but am hesitant as I have heard some horror stories.  Think I will send my children to public school as it is more carefully regulated and much more open to scrutiny.  Anyway, kids are only in school 6 hours a day and my  husband and I will have them for the other 18… think we can make our imprint and introduce all the good things of which they need to be exposed.  Both can be good though. The one common denominator of the two is that the best chances for success depend on parent awareness and involvement.

 

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3 minutes ago, Islandsandmirrors said:

but to state that they are “wasting precious time learning useless things” is so disrespectful to the profession.

No it's not because it's not the teachers faults. Teachers actually don't have all that much say in what goes on in their classrooms. The curriculum dictates what is taught, when it's taught, and how it's taught. Some teachers are more caring, creative, and intelligent and that makes them great teachers but it's not bashing the profession to say that our public school system is not the most efficient way for children to become educated. Most of the time teachers are just trying to get their students to select the right answers on standardized tests because they are held accountable for scores. That is not true education. 

By the way my degree is in early childhood education so I have nothing against teachers at all--but the system in the US is broken. 

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49 minutes ago, ireallywannaknow said:

No it's not because it's not the teachers faults. Teachers actually don't have all that much say in what goes on in their classrooms. The curriculum dictates what is taught, when it's taught, and how it's taught

There is a curriculum/lesson planning handbook for teachers to use. Teachers mainly use the worksheets in the handbook for in class/take home assignments, however, it’s a  teacher’s individual choice how to teach lessons.

Also, teachers adjust the pacing of the class depending upon the capabilities of the particular climate of students. If teachers see that a few students have failed to understand the required standards, often small group workshops will be made where a teacher will work individually with students who are struggling with similar topics. Most teachers will never use the handbook on how to teach. 

49 minutes ago, ireallywannaknow said:

st of the time teachers are just trying to get their students to select the right answers on standardized tests because they are held accountable for scores. That is not true education. 

There is a lot more creativity and input from teachers when in the classroom. A lot of time and effort goes into making sure the classroom is a safe and healthy environment for learning, and the best teachers use their own money on additional resources. Most teachers spend 700-1000 dollars out of their own pocket every school year.  

As for standardized testing, it’s mostly given out for statistical purposes and to measure how well a school does overall. Rarely ever are teachers reprimanded for children doing poorly on standardized testing. (It is optional as well.) There were only two cases where teachers were fired, and let me tell you: their teaching style was bad, zero classroom management skills—just all around bad, ineffective teachers.  Their standardized testing result was just the straw that broke the camel’s back. 

EDIT: I just read you used to be a teacher. As you know, districts vary with how strict they want the curriculum to be taught. Some districts are very “by the book” while other districts provide teachers more leeway and creativity. I don’t know how your district was like or what state you taught in, but here in California where I live, teachers are given a lot more room for lesson planning the way they see fit.

 

 

Edited by Islandsandmirrors
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On 8/26/2019 at 10:57 AM, Akbar673 said:

How do you teach your children what to stay away from, if you they do not see what it is first hand? I know many people who choose to go the home schooling route, but to be honest those children end up being more sheltered and lacking in social skills due to them not interacting with other children.

Among home schooled people that I've known, this hasn't been the case. They are not influenced by peers, but by mostly adults of the parents' choosing. They tend to be self confident and able to behave as adults when necessary at a younger age than public or private schooled children, while not being so self-conscious about being like children when appropriate, which I've seen in a lot of preteens and young teenagers who should be happy and innocent, but are pressured by peers to act serious and "adult".

Parents who choose to homeschool need to be sure they encourage their children to participate in community activities such as Islamic center kids groups, sports, clubs, or volunteering. But less interaction with children and more with adults seems to produce a social benefit to the homeschooled people that I've known.

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1 hour ago, Islandsandmirrors said:

Have you ever seen inside a US public classroom

This  thread isn't about the US public schooling system. It's about homeschooling in general.

1 hour ago, Islandsandmirrors said:

bash teachers is very unprofessional and somewhat arrogant when you owe your teachers and professors for the education and training you got to be where you are today. I’m rather shocked that you would say such negative things about the profession

Show me one line where I 'bashed' my teachers or teachers in general. 

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59 minutes ago, starlight said:

Show me one line where I 'bashed' my teachers or teachers in general. 

You decided to go on a rant about how awful all public schools are. Teachers work in public schools and to bash their place of work where they passionately and tirelessly take the time to make sure your child is getting an education and the solid foundation they need for success is very much in poor taste. It’s very ungrateful and it seems as if you are saying that our hard work is useless and meaningless, that our profession is meaningless and you think that you could do better, which you had stated in your previous reply. 

No one who isn’t in your line of work would tell you, “I would do a better job as a psychiatrist.” When that person doesn’t have the qualifications to do so. 

Edited by Islandsandmirrors
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3 minutes ago, Islandsandmirrors said:

You decided to go on a rant about how awful all public schools are. Teachers work in public schools and to bash their place of work where they passionately and tirelessly take the time to make sure your child is getting an education and the solid foundation they need for success is very much in poor taste. It’s very ungrateful and it seems as if you are saying that our hard work is useless and meaningless, that our profession is meaningless and think that you could do better. 

I disagree. Much of the school bashing that I've heard comes from teachers and former teachers, disillusioned with the system they are forced to work in..

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13 minutes ago, notme said:

I disagree. Much of the school bashing that I've heard comes from teachers and former teachers, disillusioned with the system they are forced to work in..

I’m just rephrasing what Starlight said. She said she thinks that her children are wasting precious time being in school and thinks that she could do a better job at teaching her children. Which obviously is an insult to teachers since we are the ones who put in all the work to teach. 

But yes, former teachers and teachers do complain and bash the system, but those who complain end up leaving the profession anyway due to burn-out and unreasonable expectations. People know what they are getting to when they decide to teach. So those who bash didn’t have the drive or motivation to follow through when behavioral issues start and reality begins to set in. The school system, like anywhere else, has rules and regulations and standards to be met, just like any other job.

Those who complain or end up leaving the profession were likely tired of the structure of the curriculum, and likely don’t work well with organized lesson planning and structure, rules to adhere to, etc.

Edited by Islandsandmirrors
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9 minutes ago, Islandsandmirrors said:

You decided to go on a rant about how awful all public schools are.

Lol,  Are you sure it's my post you are talking about? Because all I talked about was my children's school and they don't even go to a public school! 

10 minutes ago, Islandsandmirrors said:

Teachers work in public schools and to bash their place of work where they passionately and tirelessly take the time to make sure your child is getting an education and the solid foundation they need for success is very much in poor taste.

Relax! My mother worked as a teacher for over twenty years. I have been a teacher for a decade.  Both of us believe that homeschooling has some benefits over the schooling system these days. We are/have been both parents and teachers so we have experienced this both ways. 

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1 minute ago, starlight said:

l,  Are you sure it's my post you are talking about? Because all I talked about was my children's school and they don't even go to a public school

Yes, I’m sure. In your post, you mentioned that all schools waste time on things that you don’t find necessary like extra curricular activities. It seemed like you were talking about the school system in general and not about your children’s school. 

If it’s a private school they attend, then I’m really not surprised. Private schools can either be great or really bad. 

 

8 minutes ago, starlight said:

elax! My mother worked as a teacher for over twenty years. I have been a teacher for a decade.  Both of us believe that homeschooling has some benefits over the schooling system these days. We are/have been both parents and teachers so we have experienced this both ways. 

Maybe you approached the topic as more parent-centered while I approached it from a more teacher-centered position. Also, I don’t really know what public schools are like around the world. I don’t know their laws, regulations regarding education, standards, what kind of people are in your city, etc. what I say is purely as a result of my American upbringing and knowledge of teaching standards within the United States. I know that teachers in other parts of the world are not as regulated and behavioral problems are out of control due to cultural factors that are largely unconsidered and would never be tolerated here. 

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Homeschooling is not as terrible as many people think.

The main criticism of homeschooling your child is that it will limit your child's interactions with the outside world. This is true if the parent is doing the teaching one-on-one, and the outside activities of the child are limited.

One way to overcome this problem is to find another few homeschooling families in your area with children in the same age group. The children could rotate doing their studies at different houses, and the families could split the cost of a private tutor.

This approach is actually far cheaper than most private schools. Tutors can focus on the most essential subjects (English, Math, Science, etc) and work comfortably in extremely small "classes" -- that means more one-on-one time with your child.

It is also far more time-efficient. As a teacher, I know that a big percentage of elementary schooling is basically glorified babysitting. It's a way for parents to get a 6-8 hour break from their kids (to work or live lol). But just because your child is at school, it does not mean he/she is learning -- so much time is spent at recess, lunch, assemblies, drills, music class, work periods, movies and disruptions. On most days, in my experience, the learning can be condensed into 2-3 hours, and the rest is fluff.

With all of the free time, kids could be enrolled in many extra-curricular programs: sports, arts and crafts, languages, religious, camps, conferences, hobbies; and regular visits to the library, community centre, or gym. A curriculum personalized to your child's needs.

With class sizes reaching 30 in Ontario (where I live), a teacher can only realistically spend 1-2 minutes with your child per period. Actually, so much of class time is dedicated to disruptions and behavioural kids, that it's likely that a public school teacher won't know more than your child's name.

If your kid is succeeding in the public system, it is likely that they are not being challenged, and that the teacher is focused on the kids that are struggling. If your child is struggling, then they already need 1-2 hours per day of tutoring and help from a parent/sibling; and the 6 hours spent in school is not helping them much individually. If your child has a learning disability or an attention disorder, then a more personalized schedule and curriculum would be better for them.

The most intelligent person I know was homeschooled, then went on to do his Masters and PhD. If done right, homeschooling can be very advantageous; so long that it is designed to get your child ahead, and not just motivated by an urge to coddle him/her.

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36 minutes ago, Qa'im said:

On most days, in my experience, the learning can be condensed into 2-3 hours, and the rest is fluff

Definitely not so, where I was helping out. The third graders would write and polish their essays for just two hours before their first recess. As I would grade papers, they’d ask me for help on sentence structure and correcting any grammatical errors. I had to read everyone’s essays out loud as I’d correct them. 

I managed to help them with their essays individually during silent work (25 kids) within the allotted time before moving on the next subject (I believe Science.) prior to lunch break/recess for one hour. During this time, I would re-organize the room, and grade some more, take down old projects, prep. There was history to be taught, art projects to complete and display in the classroom, and go over quiz answers during math before reading for 5 minutes prior to the kids being sent home. P.E time, assemblies, visits to the library were only a couple of times per week. Movie days were rare. 

Of course, I don’t know what it’s like in Canada. Maybe more time is spent on procedures. Besides, maybe you personally prefer an older climate of students. So naturally, you’d think that teaching younger children is a waste of time since you’d have to teach them critical thinking skills, be able to correct behavioral issues, go over topics at a slower pace, etc. Maybe elementary teaching wasn’t intellectually stimulating for you. 

Edited by Islandsandmirrors
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