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In the Name of God بسم الله

Was the Zulfiqar Really Double-Edged?

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Salams, The Arab swords of the period were not scimitars and shamshirs like the ones Bedouins from the past few centuries wore, we have depictions and even archaeological finds that show us they

Jagged like a saw, it is false, because if it were like this, it would cause excruciating pain to the one upon whom it would be struck which will be against the conduct of Ahlebait (عليه السلام) and p

After watching this clip on Al Arabiya, I tried to find a reliable narration of Imam Ali's sword truly being double-edged but was unable to find anything. In the video, the man says that Imam Ali's re

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12 minutes ago, Flying_Eagle said:

Let's say there is no hadith mentioning its structure so does it prove that you are right ?

I don't think so. There is another thing in islamic law called mashoor. Anything which is widely accepted as true unless denied by an explicit hadith or Quranic verse, is held as true. 

It may be that people missed or lost the hadith about its structure but they didn't forget the text. 

This is one answer for other unwilling try to find a hadith. Meanwhile you find a hadith which contradicts double edged sword.

Is this you admitting there is no hadith about it, after you claimed above several times that there are hadiths about it? 

And the meaning of the words are clear in modern and classic and quranic Arabic, as you can see in my post above. So your false translation has nothing to do with reality. The word fqr is in the Quran. So if your definition goes against it, then you are clearly in the wrong. There is no talk about "double" nor "edge". If want learn the meaning of the word you can read here

http://corpus.quran.com/qurandictionary.jsp?q=fqr

So you seriously don't have hadiths that you claimed with so much confidence existed? I think you owe everyone here an apology if that's the case. Because surely you didn't mean to lie, or?

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19 minutes ago, Flying_Eagle said:

Mashoor thing should not violate logic that's condition.

Mashhour means famous, and we follow Quran and hadiths , not the masses. You want to ignore the meaning of the word 'fqr', from the Quran or known Arabic (feel free to check any dictionary of you want), then that is your choice, and equally embarrassing like claiming that there are many hadiths to prove your point, and then not being able to bring a single one of them.

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Posted (edited)

 By the way, I think what the creator of this topic meant to ask is if the sword is double pointed. Double edged means that both sides of the sword are sharp, while double pointed means that it has two points at the front, which would make the front part technically quadruple edged. But It now seems clear that there is little evidence for that.

Edited by 313 Seeker
I started getting lost into the details of what swords are double-edged and which aren't, so I decided to delete that part of the post.
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21 minutes ago, 313 Seeker said:

Is this you admitting there is no hadith about it, after you claimed above several times that there are hadiths about it? 

And the meaning of the words are clear in modern and classic and quranic Arabic, as you can see in my post above. So your false translation has nothing to do with reality. The word fqr is in the Quran. So if your definition goes against it, then you are clearly in the wrong. There is no talk about "double" nor "edge". If want learn the meaning of the word you can read here

http://corpus.quran.com/qurandictionary.jsp?q=fqr

So you seriously don't have hadiths that you claimed with so much confidence existed? I think you owe everyone here an apology if that's the case. Because surely you didn't mean to lie, or?

I have not even cracked my fingers to start for this topic bro :dwarf: let me research.:helpsos:

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Just now, Flying_Eagle said:

I have not even cracked my fingers to start for this topic bro :dwarf: let me research.:helpsos:

Ok do that. And you promise to apologize if you discover there aren't those hadiths that you were lecturing about?

Always keep up the research! Never stop.

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17 minutes ago, Flying_Eagle said:

A double edged sword. Fqr meaning half at two places. 

It doesn't say double edged sword. 

it says tons of things, and the above it says "former half at two places". Which has absolutely no relation to swords or to double pointed swords.

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I'm really no expert in reading dictionaries, but it seems they could be implying a connection between the Orion's belt (which they claim is the jawsa constellation, which is actually twins, so that makes the text even more confusing to me). That is an interesting connection.

1110256371_ScreenShot2020-04-30at12_01_24AM.png.d30a6ece5b8618486dd1caedf138cc72.png

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11 hours ago, 313 Seeker said:

I'm really no expert in reading dictionaries, but it seems they could be implying a connection between the Orion's belt (which they claim is the jawsa constellation, which is actually twins, so that makes the text even more confusing to me). That is an interesting connection.

1110256371_ScreenShot2020-04-30at12_01_24AM.png.d30a6ece5b8618486dd1caedf138cc72.png

If you read about zulfiqar, it says that small scallops in the edge. That I posted last.

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33 minutes ago, Flying_Eagle said:

If you read about zulfiqar, it says that small scallops in the edge. That I posted last.

yes that does not mean the double pointed part, and was probably quite normal for swords. The name Zulfiqar isn't really explained beyond the idea of Orion's belt. Classical Arabic is based on the Quran, so the use of the word fqr in the Quran should have precedence over anything else. Especially if the word occurs more than a dozen times, so we can see a pattern.

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2 hours ago, 313 Seeker said:

yes that does not mean the double pointed part, and was probably quite normal for swords. The name Zulfiqar isn't really explained beyond the idea of Orion's belt. Classical Arabic is based on the Quran, so the use of the word fqr in the Quran should have precedence over anything else. Especially if the word occurs more than a dozen times, so we can see a pattern.

If I start assuming, I can say many things but assumptions in religion is forbidden. It is, however, allowed in investigating a crime in a law court.

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1 minute ago, Flying_Eagle said:

If I start assuming, I can say many things but assumptions in religion is forbidden. It is, however, allowed in investigating a crime in a law court.

You are more than guilty of assumption yourself! Aren't you embarrassed that you were lecturing while claiming that there are hadiths that don't exist? I won't take you seriously anymore unless you admit that you were wrong!

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15 hours ago, Flying_Eagle said:

http://www.tyndalearchive.com/TABS/Lane//

A double edged sword. Fqr meaning half at two places. 

Arabic dictionary.

just like here. You wrote in a way as if it is written in the dictionary that it's a "double edged sword", while you left out the word "former" before "half at two places". That also looks like it could be lying on purpose. Everybody here can clearly see - and it is more than obvious - that you claimed that there are hadiths when that suddenly wasn't true.

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Just now, 313 Seeker said:

just like here. You wrote in a way as if it is written in the dictionary that it's a "double edged sword", while you left out the word "former" before "half at two places". That also looks like it could be lying on purpose. Everybody here can clearly see - and it is more than obvious - that you claimed that there are hadiths when that suddenly wasn't true.

:hahaha: what's ur age bro? Are u a teen ?

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Just now, Flying_Eagle said:

:hahaha: what's ur age bro? Are u a teen ?

non of your business. I've never accused anybody on this site straight-out of being a liar. But in your case I see so many symptoms of a liar on this thread alone, that I am actually considering it.

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Just now, 313 Seeker said:

non of your business. I've never accused anybody on this site straight-out of being a liar. But in your case I see so many symptoms of a liar on this thread alone, that I am actually considering it.

I forgive you brother. You think whatever you like. I don't have anything against you in my heart. My little cute bro.

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1 minute ago, Flying_Eagle said:

I showed you a dictionary meaning and gave you source where is says it was Hallow in edged. And, you are refusing. Bent on asking for forgiveness. 

You didn't show anything in the dictionary to prove your point! Hallow in the edge does not mean double pointed! 

And the main point here is that you misguided people, which is visible from how many people liked your post, by making them believe that you knew about hadiths to back your point, when that was not true.

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1 minute ago, Flying_Eagle said:

I forgive you brother. You think whatever you like. I don't have anything against you in my heart. My little cute bro.

so it seems you won't address that you misguided people by claiming that the prophet said something that he didn't. OK, I think your reputation is now down the drain!

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1 minute ago, 313 Seeker said:

You didn't show anything in the dictionary to prove your point! Hallow in the edge does not mean double pointed! 

And the main point here is that you misguided people, which is visible from how many people liked your post, by making them believe that you knew about hadiths to back your point, when that was not true.

Well, it is confirmed by traditional figures another source huh.

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Just now, Flying_Eagle said:

Let me correct my self, I meant by hadith source. Sorry for that. 

Hadith is prophetic or ahl bayt narrations. Obviously! That is how every Shia will interpret the word "Hadith", just like your other posts where you were lecturing me about people who actually saw the sword.

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Just now, 313 Seeker said:

Confirmed by hadiths as you kept claiming and preaching about? No! Will you admit your mistake? Or your false pride is too strong?

This is I accepted. 

 

1 minute ago, Flying_Eagle said:

Let me correct my self, I meant by hadith source. Sorry for that. 

:ranting:

And pride, astahfurllah. With pride comes trials.

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1 minute ago, 313 Seeker said:

Hadith is prophetic or ahl bayt narrations. Obviously! That is how every Shia will interpret the word "Hadith", just like your other posts where you were lecturing me about people who actually saw the sword.

You and I have one thing common. 

We both are sticky. Otherwise, you are better.

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