Jump to content
Guests can now reply in ALL forum topics (No registration required!) ×
Guests can now reply in ALL forum topics (No registration required!)
In the Name of God بسم الله
Sign in to follow this  
Turab Haider

[Urgent] Controversy and Fitna against Ayatollah Syed Aqeel Ul Gharavi.

Rate this topic

Recommended Posts

Salam

Two days before, it was confirmed that Ayatollah Aqeel ul Gharavi will be addressing first ashra of Muharram 2019 in Mumbai (Muasjid e Iranian) also known as Mughal masjid. Many people here in Mumbai have started fitna and controversy against him in Mumbai by making wrong videos against him and spreading hate by calling him Muqasir. There have been articles on Facebook and other sites about him. Some people support him some do not. His video on Zanjeer and Qama have gave him too much hate, people are saying if he would come in Mumbai they would kill him. They are also threating committee  (Intezamia) to take there decision back. I am giving links of some videos against him posted by people:

 and this:

 

and this:

 

What do guys think after seeing these videos. There are also some threads on Facebook such as:

https://m.facebook.com/groups/570082093173121?view=permalink&id=1261679147346742

and a article on change.org:

https://www.change.org/p/masjid-e-iranian-mumbai-police-masjid-e-iranian-reconsider-aqeelul-gharvi?recruiter=294124109&utm_source=share_petition&utm_medium=facebook&utm_campaign=share_petition&recruited_by_id=ff613860-f7aa-11e4-b70d-814638b304c7

Please reply and share your view's on this. I personally think that this is wrong. He is an Internationally renowned shcolar with tons of Knowledge. Please share posts and videos against these peoples and support Allama Sahab.

W.salam

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Minbar of Mughal Masjid had Maulana Mohammed Athar Sahab for 58 years. After his demise, his brother Maulana Mohammed Ashfaq Sahab recited the similar Wilayati/Fazael Majlis. 

Aqeel ul Gharavi is a controversial figure already and he better not sit on minbar that used to unite Shias. In the above video, you can see how he's considering 'Krishna', a Hindu God, as a Prophet. Krishna was known to steal Makhan and used to have many girlfriends. 

I do not believe being an internationally renowned or having bucket load of knowledge is stamp on authenticity. History has many examples that confirms this fact. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
21 minutes ago, Sirius_Bright said:

Minbar of Mughal Masjid had Maulana Mohammed Athar Sahab for 58 years. After his demise, his brother Maulana Mohammed Ashfaq Sahab recited the similar Wilayati/Fazael Majlis. 

Aqeel ul Gharavi is a controversial figure already and he better not sit on minbar that used to unite Shias. In the above video, you can see how he's considering 'Krishna', a Hindu God, as a Prophet. Krishna was known to steal Makhan and used to have many girlfriends. 

I do not believe being an internationally renowned or having bucket load of knowledge is stamp on authenticity. History has many examples that confirms this fact. 

Sir, He is saying that it may be possible that Krishna would be a Prophet, not that Krishna is Prophet. Second thing that Isn't Prophet Isa (عليه السلام) Prophet, what is the Christian belief regarding him?? Is that belief right?? Aqeel Sahib is also saying that May be krishna would a a Prophet but his nation I.e Hindus made him whatever they say about him like Christians have done to Isa (عليه السلام), Don't they believe him as their God. When Allah says that indeed in every region Allah has sent a Prophet or guider then how come this is possible that there were no Prophets in Indian Subcontinet. Aqeel sahib is only sharing a possiblity. Second, he is not a controversial figure, he also talks about unity and in many of his majalis promotes it by saying to spread fita is a gunnah e Kabira. I would recommend to you to listen some of his majalis. Majalis recited by him indeed reflect his knowledge. He is knowledge and sincere man towards religion. Afsoos 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Turab Haider said:

When Allah says that indeed in every region Allah has sent a Prophet or guider then how come this is possible that there were no Prophets in Indian Subcontinet.

Why is it not possible that there were Prophets sent by Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) in Indian subcontinent but we don't know them as we don't know most of 1,24,000 Prophets. Is it necessary to pick someone as a Prophet incase there's no Prophet known from that region. Making someone a Prophet isn't something that should be taken lightly. No speculation, Aqeel Gharavi can share definite proof if he's making claim. 

As for Isa (عليه السلام), we know all the details from Qur'an and traditions about him. So, your example doesn't hold here. 

Buddha was always naked but since he said few good things like a Prophet does, let's make him a Prophet. MashaAllah. 

1 hour ago, Turab Haider said:

Second, he is not a controversial figure, he also talks about unity and in many of his majalis promotes it by saying to spread fita is a gunnah e Kabira. I would recommend to you to listen some of his majalis. Majalis recited by him indeed reflect his knowledge.

I have heard him. He might be promoting unity but with Sunnis. Definitely, one of the reason of rift within Shias. I take khulus/honesty over knowledge (not that knowledge is unimportant). There have been Sunni Ulama with immense knowledge but they still remained Sunni. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, starlight said:

Years ago, I wrote on this forum that in the quest of unity with Sunnis we are creating rift amongst Shias.

The complete picture however must include those who are using the correctional efforts by the scholars to break away and form a new sect, based on something not religious rather cultural ritual like zanjeer and qama. I used to support it and it is their right if done responsibly, however it is not worth all the trouble it is continuously causing. The purpose of Tawalla can always be served with so many other things and only the ignorant cling to tradition to sacrifice Allah's pleasure.

I have extensively been in touch with various sort of Shia on Facebook and sadly apart from the Usooli the others mostly give in to emotion and hatred in face of reason.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
14 minutes ago, Darth Vader said:

based on something not religious rather cultural ritual like zanjeer and qama.

Mourning practices cannot be without some element of culture just like wedding rituals and the rest. The practice of Tatbir was dying anyway, why create controversies which would lead to divisions. Azadari of Imam Hussain (عليه السلام) will continue till the end of this dunya, nothing can stop it.Tatbir would have died if no one paid any attention to it. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
10 minutes ago, starlight said:

Mourning practices cannot be without some element of culture just like wedding rituals and the rest. The practice of Tatbir was dying anyway, why create controversies which would lead to divisions. Azadari of Imam Hussain (عليه السلام) will continue till the end of this dunya, nothing can stop it.Tatbir would have died if no one paid any attention to it. 

I pray that you realize the strawman in that. Mourning/Aza/Azadari is a non-issue and no one is against observing it as far as I am aware, and that there are so many ways to observe it. Tatbir is an off shoot of it and that is the controversial practice. Like I wrote there are better alternatives than to injure ourselves.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
6 minutes ago, Darth Vader said:

Tatbir is an off shoot of it and that is the controversial practice

DV, it wasn't seen as controversial twenty,thirty years back, was it? 

7 minutes ago, Darth Vader said:

Like I wrote there are better alternatives than to injure ourselves.

I don't support tatbir. In my opinion it's a non issue and they should have let it remain a non issue. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

1921622249_Historicalhumanpopulationgrowth-nologo_3.png.b74dd884f5d33276c9eb83462ced42e0.png

Also there were not so many diseases like Hepatitis and HIV. There were no traffic jams and administrative problems. There were no blood banks to donate to instead. Back then people did not do it to show off. I also do not personally mind the like or dislike of cutting ourselves. But in any event it does not warrant breaking away into a new sect and rejecting all the teachings of the scholars. That is what is happening sadly.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 hours ago, Turab Haider said:

Two days before, it was confirmed that Ayatollah Aqeel ul Gharavi will be addressing first ashra of Muharram 2019 in Mumbai (

I wish Ayatullah Aqeel Gharavi come to Pakistan and address the ashra in Karach at the house of Syed Ali Muttaqi Jafri. We are really missing him from last 5-6 years.

It is very sad to know that some people of India don't want to listen to this great scholar. 

May Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) shower His blessings on him, increase his toufeeqat and grant him long life & good health.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
17 minutes ago, Cool said:

It is very sad to know that some people of India don't want to listen to this great scholar. 

People are not opposing Aqeel Gharavi coming to Mumbai. They just want the legendary Minbar of Mughal Masjid be honored with some equivalent Maulana/Zakir as before. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, Sirius_Bright said:

People are not opposing Aqeel Gharavi coming to Mumbai. They just want the legendary Minbar of Mughal Masjid be honored with some equivalent Maulana/Zakir as before. 

But the videos posted in OP were telling something else, specially the 3rd one.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
12 hours ago, Sirius_Bright said:

People are not opposing Aqeel Gharavi coming to Mumbai. They just want the legendary Minbar of Mughal Masjid be honored with some equivalent Maulana/Zakir as before. 

:salam:

What I read in the change.org petition was indeed a defense of this Mimbar, but the argument is about his stance on tatbir. So it leaves some doubt about the intention.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
10 minutes ago, Cool said:

But the videos posted in OP were telling something else, specially the 3rd one.

I'm sure there wouldn't have been this much ruckus if he was called to some other place. 

2 minutes ago, realizm said:

:salam:

What I read in the change.org petition was indeed a defense of this Mimbar, but the argument is about his stance on tatbir. So it leaves some doubt about the intention.

There are many people who participates in Tatbir and Aqeel Gharavi is against it. Since, he'll be sitting for Ashra at one of the important centres of Mumbai, tatbiris have also come forward with their argument.

It's not like there's only one group opposing him. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
11 minutes ago, Sirius_Bright said:

I'm sure there wouldn't have been this much ruckus if he was called to some other place. 

There are many people who participates in Tatbir and Aqeel Gharavi is against it. Since, he'll be sitting for Ashra at one of the important centres of Mumbai, tatbiris have also come forward with their argument.

It's not like there's only one group opposing him. 

Still seems a Tatbir issue, mostly.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest Sajeel Abass

Ayatullah Aqeel ul Gharavi is a very knowledgeable man Sirius, He is only doing Qiyaas (sharing a possibility as said by Turab Haider). What if Allah hadn't mentioned Isa (عليه السلام) in Qur'an. Haven't Jews changed the teachings of their Prophet I.e Musa (عليه السلام) . If u have the answer that who was the Prophet, which Allah sent in the Subcontinet, then kindly let all of us know. If Aqeel ul Gharavi don't deserve to sit on the holy pulpit, then no one deserves. I have listened to him a lot, he is the asset for this Muslim Ummah. Better think before you speak. People of Mumbai are very lucky that they will be listening this gem of wisdom, believe me or not according to me he is ''The Best Scholar'' among all the scholars in Indian subcontinent and is one of the few scholars in Shias who is spreading the true teachings of Ahl e Bait (عليه السلام) like Syed Shahenshah Naqvi and some others.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, Sirius_Bright said:

People are not opposing Aqeel Gharavi coming to Mumbai. They just want the legendary Minbar of Mughal Masjid be honored with some equivalent Maulana/Zakir as before. 

If Aqeel ul Gharavi don't deserves to sit on the holy pulpit, then no one deserves. He is the asset of this Muslim Ummah. He is one of the only Shia scholars who are spreading teachings of Ahl e Bait (عليه السلام) like Syed Shahenshah Naqvi and some others. You better think before you Speak. People of Mumbai are very lucky that they will hear this gem of wisdom.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Turab Haider said:

You better think before you Speak. 

Everyone has a different opinion. 

1 hour ago, Turab Haider said:

People of Mumbai are very lucky that they will hear this gem of wisdom.

I just want someone else as khatib of Mughal Masjid Ashra, so do 1000 others. 

2 hours ago, Guest Sajeel Abass said:

believe me or not according to me he is ''The Best Scholar'' among all the scholars in Indian subcontinent and is one of the few scholars in Shias who is spreading the true teachings of Ahl e Bait (عليه السلام) like Syed Shahenshah Naqvi and some others.

Okay :grin:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Just to clarify: I'm not against Aqeel Gharavi or do not belittle his knowledge. Though I do not agree with everything he says, I believe we all have some reservations against a particular scholar. He is obviously an 'Ayatullah', knowledgeable and deserves his respect. The venue for which he's chosen has not seen such Zakir before and the authorities could have made alternate choice. It's hard to understand for others as they cannot relate. 

Both Fazaeli and Tablighi Majlis are important. If a Zakir is entertaining crowd with true Fazael of Ahlul Bayt (عليهم اسلام) then there should be no problem. It is Ebadat. He deserves his $$. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
12 minutes ago, Sirius_Bright said:

The venue for which he's chosen has not seen such Zakir before and the authorities could have made alternate choice

My friend who lives in Mumbai has contacted to Intezamia of Mughal Masjid. It's confirm that he would recite there. The Intezamia also said that they have taken the decision after a long discussion and they don't think that any alim would be better than Aqeel ul Gharavi to recite in Masjid e Iranian (Mughal Masjid). They also said that there is only small group of ignorant people who are creating fitna against him, these people will regret there decision later.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
59 minutes ago, Sirius_Bright said:

Just to clarify: I'm not against Aqeel Gharavi or do not belittle his knowledge. Though I do not agree with everything he says, I believe we all have some reservations against a particular scholar. He is obviously an 'Ayatullah', knowledgeable and deserves his respect. The venue for which he's chosen has not seen such Zakir before and the authorities could have made alternate choice. It's hard to understand for others as they cannot relate. 

Both Fazaeli and Tablighi Majlis are important. If a Zakir is entertaining crowd with true Fazael of Ahlul Bayt (عليهم اسلام) then there should be no problem. It is Ebadat. He deserves his $$. 

Salam alaikum brother. You have mentioned a few times in this thread that apparently alternative choices should have been made. Could you kindly suggest two or three of these alternative choices?

Wallahu a'lam

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 hours ago, Mahdavist said:

Salam alaikum brother. You have mentioned a few times in this thread that apparently alternative choices should have been made. Could you kindly suggest two or three of these alternative choices?

Alaikas Salaam brother, 

Maulana Yasoob Abbas. 

Maulana Bilal Kazmi. 

Maulana Sayed Ali Raza Rizvi. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Salam momineen, 

After the confirmation of ayatollah gharavi, some fitna rasiers started to protest against the intezamia of Mughal masjid. On 25 August, it was declared that all those who don't want Aqeel Gharavi to recite at Mughal masjid would gather and protest against this decision. Literally, no one came except some people. When these fitna mongers saw that nothing is happening and they can't stop intezmia. They went to son of Mirza Mohammed athar sahab, Ejaaz Athar (who is not even a qualified Alim) and requested him to recite at mughal masjid and he agreed. According to latest news, now there will be two Ashra's in mughal masjid.. One by intezmia, which Gharavi sahab will recite at 9:00 pm from tomorrow and second Ejaz Athar at same venue if intezamia allowed at 7:30 pm. They are bringing a person who is not even qualified to sit on mimber, only because they don't want to listen Aqeel Gharavi as to them Aqeel Gharavi is Muaksir or Munkir e Wilayat etc. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I believe there is a hadith which says if you wish to know who is on the right path, look toward who is opposing them. 

If you look at the first video in the OP, you can see that the man brought to contrast Aqeel ul Garavi - and set him correct, as it were - preaches a wanton disregard of our fiqh and is openly preaching bidaat. Whoever said the blood discharged from tatbir is tahir? Which marja' has issued fatawa saying you can pray with that blood? Even Imam Hussain would wash his own blood for prayers. That he did not do so on the day of Ashura is a result of the fact that there was no water to clean the blood, not to mention the fact that it was literally in the middle of War! He then goes on to claim his blood is like that of the blood of the Shuhada of Karbala?! Who is the real muqassir here? How can you even claim that the blood of a normal person like you and me is equivalent to the companions and family of Imam Hussain?

I am not a scholar but even I can tell that the man opposing the scholar in question is no scholar himself and is distorting the religion of Imam Hussain in his own name. To determine the righteousness of a person, look at who opposes him. 

Secondly, the whole thing about krishna is his personal opinion - again, read the above - and he never definitely claims it. He said it's very, very likely in my opinion. And he makes a sound argument to justify only the consideration of the possibility. 

Lastly, how can someone say XYZ aalim used to recite the majalis at this mosque before and we want another scholar of that caliber. That implies that we have the capability to judge either scholar's caliber. Except maybe 5-10 people, I don't think most of the people on ShiaChat have even gone to hawzah for any significant period of time, let alone being capable of determing the caliber of a man who was termed Ayatollah by other respected scholars. We must learn and understand that many of our respected scholars from the past have had severe differences of opinion amongst themselves. But they treated each other with respect and as fellow scholars. The best example I like of this is Shaykh Mufeed, who was Shaykh Saduq's student but disagreed with him on a subject as sensitive as sahw an nabi. If he was like how Shias have unfortunately started acting, he'd probably be issuing fatwas of kufr against his own teacher. Thank God, he wasn't like us and hopefully we can all learn from his example.

If Aqeel ul Gharavi opposes tatbir and you believe in it, that's fine. But don't say he does not deserve to sit on the mimbar - any mimbar - and learn to respect him despite the difference of opinion. That's the difference between an educated nation and an emotional one. Don't throw away a scholar's boat loads of knowledge because he said one thing you don't like. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
45 minutes ago, Khadim uz Zahra said:

someone say XYZ aalim used to recite the majalis at this mosque before and we want another scholar of that caliber. That implies that we have the capability to judge either scholar's caliber.

 

On 8/25/2019 at 1:11 AM, Sirius_Bright said:

I'm not against Aqeel Gharavi or do not belittle his knowledge. Though I do not agree with everything he says, I believe we all have some reservations against a particular scholar. He is obviously an 'Ayatullah', knowledgeable and deserves his respect. The venue for which he's chosen has not seen such Zakir before and the authorities could have made alternate choice. It's hard to understand for others as they cannot relate. 

It's about the type of Majalis that minbar has hosted for years (~60 years). Everyone loved that minbar and the scholar. It was one of the places in Mumbai that Shias came in huge number and were united irrespective of their differences.

No one talked about calibre. It's more about type of Majalis that one recites. Further, There's no doubt that Aqeelul Gharavi is a controversial aalim and he would create more diversity within Shias which isn't a great thing. There wouldn't have been this much noise if he was invited to one of 100 other Imambargah/Masjid in Mumbai and suburbs. Not all thousand listening in Imambargah has equal level of understanding. So, most of the time it's about subject, oratory than knowledge. As I said before, it somewhat divided Shias there. Many people came at 7:30 listened to Maulana Ejaz and left while others came when Aqeelul Gharavi sat on minbar. 

Not talking about any particular aalim but it is dangerous to authenticate an aalim just based on his knowledge and title. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

@Turab Haider - the second part of the first video was pretty ridiculous. Have we really degraded the number to a point that we are comparing Ayatollah Aqeel ul Gharavi to an idiot who doesn't know basics of deen? Are the people if Mumbai so oblivious that they would reject an aalim of this stature because of 1 issue? 

On 8/24/2019 at 3:46 AM, Sirius_Bright said:

Aqeel ul Gharavi is a controversial figure already and he better not sit on minbar that used to unite Shias. In the above video, you can see how he's considering 'Krishna', a Hindu God, as a Prophet. Krishna was known to steal Makhan and used to have many girlfriends. 

Brother - this is the genealogy of Hz Isa as listed in the Gospel of Matthew in the New Testament:

Quote

 

This is the genealogy of Jesus the Messiah the son of David, the son of Abraham: 

2 Abraham was the father of Isaac, Isaac the father of Jacob, Jacob the father of Judah and his brothers, 

3 Judah the father of Perez and Zerah, whose mother was Tamar, Perez the father of Hezron, Hezron the father of Ram

Ram the father of Amminadab, Amminadab the father of Nahshon, Nahshon the father of Salmon, 

 

Is itbnotnpossible that Ram was a Prophet but his teachings were corrupted into what is in the Gita today? After all, if Jews started worshipping a golden calf within 40 days of Hz Musa going away, surely this is possible too. And Ayatollah Gharavi said his research is pending.

The fall of a nation starts when it starts disrespecting its scholars.

On 8/24/2019 at 6:07 AM, Sirius_Bright said:

I have heard him. He might be promoting unity but with Sunnis. Definitely, one of the reason of rift within Shias. I take khulus/honesty over knowledge (not that knowledge is unimportant). There have been Sunni Ulama with immense knowledge but they still remained Sunni. 

I don't doubt his khulus (sincerety) nor his honesty.

It takes guts speak the truth as he sees it. Just because you and I disagree with it, don’t mean we question his sincerety or honesty.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, ShiaMan14 said:

Is itbnotnpossible that Ram was a Prophet but his teachings were corrupted into what is in the Gita today?

Dangerous to consider someone as a Prophet unless cent percent sure. 

2 hours ago, ShiaMan14 said:

The fall of a nation starts when it starts disrespecting its scholars.

I'll tell this again and for the last time. People in general, do not disrespect him (few akhbaris do), the protest was all about a different aalim on that minbar. Many on ShiaChat would not be able to relate. It wouldn't be this much of an issue if he was coming to some other Imambargah. 

2 hours ago, ShiaMan14 said:

I don't doubt his khulus (sincerety) nor his honesty.

It takes guts speak the truth as he sees it. Just because you and I disagree with it, don’t mean we question his sincerety or honesty

As everyone was after knowledge, I pointed out we should look for other parameters as well, most important being khulus. Not intended for any particular aalim. 

He had a great clip against Akbaris on why they shouldn't get involved for Shahadate Salisa in tadhahud. I agree with him. 

There's another for tatbir. I disagree with him.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 8/24/2019 at 7:45 PM, Ibn al-Hussain said:

Most sub-continent students studying today cannot even be compared, let alone some zaakir who does not know the ABC of the Islamic sciences, but only knows how to entertain the crowds and make his dough $$.

Given his high level of Urdu, I understand only a fraction of what he says. But even then his majalis are well worth the effort and better than all others who have come from the sub-continent.

I'd always assumed that India/Pakistan kept the best speakers for themselves, but going by your comment, it seems not. Obviously I am familiar with the ones Sirius Bright mentioned and say Talib Johri, but I thought there must be a large number of others.

I guess not.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
41 minutes ago, Haji 2003 said:

and say Talib Johri,

Allama Shehanshah Hussain naqvi is another good one. Asad Johri, Talib Johri's son is also good though nowhere near his father. That's about it. The number of good Urdu speakers is surprisingly scarce ( I seriously think some of our shichatters would do a better job) which I why I would advise Sirius to not let go of Molana Aqeel Gharavi. 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 minutes ago, starlight said:

( I seriously think some of our shichatters would do a better job) 

See the latest “ask haji” question.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You are posting as a guest. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Sign in to follow this  

×
×
  • Create New...