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In the Name of God بسم الله
Darth Vader

What if Germany had won World War 2?

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11 hours ago, Soldiers and Saffron said:

In fact one could argue that the Middle East would have been better of if Hitler won rather than the other side, as much of the hell and chaos that was to come to the Middle East can be tracked back to the "good guys" of the west.

You seem to be under the impression that Hitler was running some sort of charitable enterprise. Regardless of who won WW2 the fact remains that the winners would have been technologically superior to a relatively backward and powerless Middle East.

There is no such thing as a free lunch.

Post WW2 the Middle East was ripe for exploitation by anyone who had the means and will to do so. If it was not migrating European Jews and Americans, it would have been the Germans and if not the Germans the Russians. And if not the Russians the Chinese.

The reason why the Germans come across as being more benign is because they had only very limited colonial territories. They had nothing to lose by making promises.

Also remember that Netanyahu is perfectly happy dealing with white nationalists (like Trump and other even more unsavoury characters) and they are quite comfortable dealing with him.

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Dear Haji, may I reply with your blessings? I am extra careful doing so and it is fun for me and I hope for you as well dear brother, and we are just speculating so here goes.

18 minutes ago, Haji 2003 said:

You seem to be under the impression that Hitler was running some sort of charitable enterprise.

The enemy of my enemy is my friend. Ages old saying. Hitler truly hated the west and its ways also because Germany was stung aplenty by them so he would have loved to break that tradition of the new form of slavery and colonialism. While you are mostly right about the human condition shared by Germans as well I must say that their record as a nation of not behaving the same way is also a plus while cruelty is in the history and tradition of the British and the American pioneers who colonized it were almost all petty criminals sent to the new world to dig and build as punishment and their history is rich with cruelty and crimes against humanity in the same way, after all, they were also British too.

24 minutes ago, Haji 2003 said:

Also remember that Netanyahu is perfectly happy dealing with white nationalists (like Trump and other even more unsavoury characters) and they are quite comfortable dealing with him.

Exaggerated reverence of Jews and service to them is also indoctrinated in the Christian faith as it exists today. But Germans did not have as much cause to be completely heartless, unjust and malicious to have shoved a Zionist plan down the throat of the whole world over many millions of dead bodies of the locals. I know, human condition, but the German have a rich history and they are fearsome warriors historically not mercantile opportunists. And, you know, they did not like Jews appropriating or monopolizing the whole world's wealth. So there is negligible chance they would have had anything to do with supporting Zionism of all things.

29 minutes ago, Haji 2003 said:

There is no such thing as a free lunch.

Indeed today the husks of bodies of our countries pillaged and deprived of marrow and flesh by foreign puppets warrant that we live off free lunches by the IMF and the world bank and other aid, the few countries still left standing that are unoccupied or might have a future coexisting in this hostile world, but back then we did not need "free lunch" (even the term was invented during late stage capitalism). All our countries needed was to be left alone.

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5 hours ago, Haji 2003 said:

You seem to be under the impression that Hitler was running some sort of charitable enterprise. Regardless of who won WW2 the fact remains that the winners would have been technologically superior to a relatively backward and powerless Middle East.

There is no such thing as a free lunch.

Post WW2 the Middle East was ripe for exploitation by anyone who had the means and will to do so. If it was not migrating European Jews and Americans, it would have been the Germans and if not the Germans the Russians. And if not the Russians the Chinese.

The reason why the Germans come across as being more benign is because they had only very limited colonial territories. They had nothing to lose by making promises.

Also remember that Netanyahu is perfectly happy dealing with white nationalists (like Trump and other even more unsavoury characters) and they are quite comfortable dealing with him.

I don’t think the nazis were good, nor do I think the western allies were good and they can both go to hell in my opinion.

However, I do still think that a german victory would have been better for the Middle East. Even though they too would most likely try to exploit the oil and resources of the Middle East sooner or later.

 

May I remind you of how the house of saud and wahabism as a state ideology came into power? Or how the current state of Israel was formed? Both which can be linked back to the brits and the aftermatch of WW1 and WW2.

The empowering of saddam(la) subsequently leading to his attack against Iran which was backed by the allied forces, later on the gulf war which made him a bad guy again, all which would most likely had been different had the germans won.

The cold war, the consequences of the cold war for the Middle East (taliban). If you were to accept the white house story of 9/11, then the taliban (which the cold war produced) did 9/11, subsequently bushs war on evil started, subsequently daesh was formed and once again Muslims had to pay the price in suffering.

Many more examples can be given in which the outcome could have been much different had the allied side not won WW2.

 

As far as nethanyahoo goes, there would be no nethanyahoo nor a Israel if the germans would have won WW2. The nazis were not foremost nationalist (like Trump), they were nazis before anything else and they hated Jews and the idea of zionism.

Even now, many nazis in the US dislike Trump because he gave his daughter to a Jew in their eyes.

 

 

Two things can be said with certiantiy had the germans won:

No Israel and zionists.

No saud and wahabism in power.

Edited by Soldiers and Saffron

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On 8/23/2019 at 8:32 PM, aaaz1618 said:

For me as a white Muslim it actually gets very tiresome hearing that my side of the world or my parent's culture is this almost satanic evil destroying innocent Muslims.

That's because human in general are more fixated on finding things which divide us, instead of searching for the things which unite us. If we were to search for the things that unite us, then we would have much more peaceful coexistence in the world.

On 8/23/2019 at 8:32 PM, aaaz1618 said:

North, east, south or west, corruption and evil exist and having the word 'Islamic' in a place's name or a star and crescent does not exclude a society from being evil or corrupt.

Ameen to that.

On 8/23/2019 at 8:32 PM, aaaz1618 said:

For me as a white Muslim it actually gets very tiresome hearing that my side of the world or my parent's culture is this almost satanic evil destroying innocent Muslims.

That comes from people deciding to judge people by applying classifications or labels to them, without getting to know them as a person or an indivdual. Its the same thing that Trump, Modi, Boris Johnson, Morrison, etc...all want. To create tribalism by fostering fear of a group of people. All it does is foster hate amongst the idiotic ignorants. 

When you stop and actually engage with people of those groups then you will find things to be the exact opposite. A vast amount of Jews in America don't support Israel's policies in the West Bank/Gaza as well as being anti-Aipac, anti-Netanyahu, Pro-Human Rights for Palestine. That's why I don't use the term Jew when I'm talking about the Israeli govt, but I use the term Zionist. Its the same as saying every Sunni Muslim is a Wahabbi, which we know is most definitely not the case.

Its only the ignorant who speak in broad terms of assigning things to an entire group of people. As we know  all too well, the one thing the world has a lot of is ignorance.

On 8/23/2019 at 8:32 PM, aaaz1618 said:

Yes, my side of the world does some evil things, yes some of those things are done to Muslims, but my word, where are all the great Muslim faces condemning Muslim governments, leaders, countries etc?

They're too busy concerning themselves with Israel.

On 8/23/2019 at 8:32 PM, aaaz1618 said:

Seeing how it's taken Qatar forever and a day to stop supporting China's use of detention camps for Muslims, I best not hold my breath.

Even that was a half baked comment on China, by Qatar.

Edited by Akbar673

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1 hour ago, Soldiers and Saffron said:

they were nazis before anything else and they hated Jews and the idea of zionism.

So how do you explain the Haavara agreement?

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33 minutes ago, Haji 2003 said:

So how do you explain the Haavara agreement?

That agreement was signed in 1933.

The nazi party (NSDAP) did not have majority in the german elections back then and had to make a coalition government with another party (DNVP), that agreement was a product of that coalition as a "middle way". However the program/agreement was scraped as the NSDAP got majority later on and could act as they want.

Edited by Soldiers and Saffron

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On 8/23/2019 at 8:16 AM, Darth Vader said:

I wish we could all have an interesting yet factual debate on this.

Saudi Arabia. Can you imagine? All the sects created and empowered by the English in Saudi and in India. Since Germany was fond of reversing English tricks to divide people geographically and otherwise, they would have certainly taken care of this very hot potato on the hands of the Muslim ummah, which is the source of Wahhabism and the seed from which terrorism sprouts. Muslim leaders would have been different and not foreign puppets. No Gaddafi, no Saddam, no mustard gas. Shah Faisal, Bhutto and Gaddafi in the 70s made a plan to unite all the Muslim countries and were all assassinated except Gaddafi. If you think about it, our immediate world would have been exceptionally different. There are more incredible benefits had Allies lost WW2, which I will relate if the discussion progresses.

 

No, you know what would have happened, Germany would get the Lebenstraum from Russia, Mussolini would have his "Roman" Empire  in Africa and Hitler would  have reneged on his comments on Islam when he finds out that  the  Arabs are very closely related to the Jews. Allahu alam, I'm glad I live in this world, despite all the evil and suffering in it.

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Et tu, Gaius?

11 hours ago, Gaius I. Caesar said:

Allahu alam, I'm glad I live in this world, despite all the evil and suffering in it.

Pardon me, it is because you and others opposing the argument are living in United States or United Kingdom or similar places. You guys are used to stick to and frequent your own rabbit holes and have not come under the boot heel yet, being their citizens. Were you living in a place where your tax money is being used to make life hell then we would all have a true "common frame of reference" in this.

11 hours ago, Gaius I. Caesar said:

Even when he views you as less than "human" and inferior to his race?

You mean more or less the same way Israel does and how your people lick their feet and your senate attacks its enemies (us) ignoring its own interests? Thought you were happy with this world and all its evil.

Personally I will not lie that I am okay with this world, I will say Alhamdulillah though. And I will say Ajjil Faraj in every prayer all the time for that reason. I can not defend those living off of the harvested organs of poor Arab youth, their mineral resources and I can not imagine even Hitler doing all that, nor the Germans selling bombs to Saudi Arabia to target Yemeni school buses. I think most people simply can not imagine that despite globalization and despite the whiteness of the skin and all their short comings the German are a different people. People forget history, of Rommel and others who opposed lesser conduct of their own occupation forces. And that in --any-- foreign military occupation there are and will be always serious injustices.

So let me say I look forward to any brilliant ideas on this topic with a smile on my face. I wish all the multi-dimensional evil and its dominion today had some historical parallel so I could change my mind.

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By the way my friends I do not mind the vehemence in your somewhat short, carefully thought opposition to my idea. I love it. I can understand you are mindful of the NSA and the FBI and such real life gestapo hounds and in your place I would too. In fact I would also outright ignore reality and bash the Nazi, forgetting much everything else. Or I would simply remain quiet and dignified. I understand. Like I wrote its just a light exchange, a tickling for the intellects and I am very pleased to see how we have all conducted ourselves. I am not equally gifted like others when it comes to conversations and I feel I have so much more to write on this. As I have explained, I don't care about Nazis, just that I strongly feel that something different, anything different in this day and age would have been just what this world needs.

Pakistan has an extremely rich tradition of TV dramas which has died since over a decade, right when war began in Afghanistan. Of literature and poetry and our excellent language, Urdu. Our writers and poets are unmatched due to their quality -and- numbers and their works are fondly read today even after centuries. This too, has died. We have our national dress, the shalwar kameez, with the dupatta for women, to cover their necks. Its a beautiful dress. This dress has also died. Someone victoriously wrote in some thread that millennials and generation Z (poor choice of designation letter I know) have 20% LGBTQ unlike previous generations. Our generations are similarly disappointing, if I may be allowed to write that. Our culture, our time is over. Our economy, our bones are gone. Our money is in western banks, siphoned away by western puppets, thanks to a sort of democracy about which Condolizza Rice, former sec of state of the United States writes in her book, how she and G. W. Bush went to lengths to restore "democracy" (and the two former crooked puppets with several volumes of criminal record as choices to be elected).

I didn't want to complain. Today there is a vast abundance of bad and sad news. I don't even want to read it. I am sure neither do you all. It feels like an edema in the head. And there is nothing I can do about any of it except know that it is happening. So, anyway, thank you all.

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1 hour ago, Darth Vader said:

You mean more or less the same way Israel does and how your people lick their feet and your senate attacks its enemies (us) ignoring its own interests? Thought you were happy with this world and all its evil

This is no different than Pakistani politicians getting in bed with Saudi Arabia and turning a blind eye to Osama hiding in Abbotabad, tolerating Deobandi scum like Sipah-e-Sahaba  and doing absolutely nothing when we get ruthlessly slaughtered in our masjids by terrorists.

Edited by Gaius I. Caesar

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22 minutes ago, Gaius I. Caesar said:

This is no different than Pakistani politicians getting in bed with Saudi Arabia and turning a blind eye to Osama hiding in Abbotabad, tolerating Deobandi scum like Sipah-e-Sahaba  and doing absolutely nothing when we get ruthlessly slaughtered in our masjids by terrorists.

That is all precisely what hand selected puppet governments are for, especially when the chief justice of supreme court and the chief of army were so recently "fine-tuned" by dear Lizzi. Mushy was removed precisely for destroying the breeding centers of terror along the opium lands border, their local assets, just like ISIS is their foot army in the Levant.

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7 hours ago, Darth Vader said:

I strongly feel that something different, anything different in this day and age would have been just what this world needs

You can't change the past, but you can change the future.

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9 hours ago, notme said:

You can't change the past, but you can change the future.

You wont be able to change the future if you don’t learn from the past, things have a way of repeating themselves when lessons are not learnt.

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13 minutes ago, Soldiers and Saffron said:

You wont be able to change the future if you don’t learn from the past, things have a way of repeating themselves when lessons are not learnt.

But painting an idealistic picture of what might have been is no more beneficial than not studying history at all.

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12 hours ago, notme said:

But painting an idealistic picture of what might have been is no more beneficial than not studying history at all.

It is a hypothetical discussion ideally based on historical events before and after WW2 as well as an analysis of the current state of the world which is greatly affected by the outcome of WW2.

I also don’t think its truthful to say that the world would be ideal had the germans won, just as much as I don’t think it is truthful to say that "we would all be dead" if they won. Islam or nothing.

 

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20 minutes ago, Soldiers and Saffron said:

just as much as I don’t think it is truthful to say that "we would all be dead" if they won. Islam or nothing.

Well I'm white/caucasian, so I might be alright if I could manage to keep my mouth shut, but I didn't say we would all be dead. I said we would be dead or war would be continuing.

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Germany winning ww2 is not going to happen , just as likely as Nepal is going to conquer India.

 germany to defeat British empire alone is totally impossible 

Remember its Canada Australia egypt NZ India + british isles vs a germany ravaged 20 yrs earlier by war and sanctions 

Myth of german power was created by British to drag United States into war with them , so young Americans needlessly died in Europe to fight a power that could have better stopped russian communists somewhere along vistula and hungry.

Ww1 and ww2 in Europe were unnecessarily extended due to british jumping in and prolonging local European wars 

Edited by Panzerwaffe

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On 8/26/2019 at 12:21 PM, Gaius I. Caesar said:

No, you know what would have happened, Germany would get the Lebenstraum from Russia, Mussolini would have his "Roman" Empire  in Africa and Hitler would  have reneged on his comments on Islam when he finds out that  the  Arabs are very closely related to the Jews. Allahu alam, I'm glad I live in this world, despite all the evil and suffering in it.

Best case scenario for Germany

they defeat france in a DEFENSIVE border war 

Not invade the low countries or norway

Gain half of Poland 

Britain, United States stay out of the war and france is intact and unoccupied but militarily defeated and politically divided 

 

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22 hours ago, notme said:

Well I'm white/caucasian, so I might be alright if I could manage to keep my mouth shut, but I didn't say we would all be dead. I said we would be dead or war would be continuing.

Which war would continue? You mean wars in general?

There has been more wars since WW2 even with the allied forces winning WW2.

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