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In the Name of God بسم الله
Mohannad_Haydar_Matar

What if Hawa (Eve) never ate the apple?

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I have to admit such thought did cross my mind some time ago. Had things been different, who knows, I think for one thing human beings would might have been sent to a better planet. With clothes and cooked food growing from trees maybe? And better temperature limits. Perhaps even be able to communicate easier with God or angels. There would be no Jinn there so less temptation and evil. Less harmful microbes and less disease. And so on. Maybe that other planet would be heaven then?

But I think then we would not be human beings had we not tasted the apple and forgetting what we were told. We would be a different creature closer to angels and farther from animals. That would have changed all the rules. Pretty sure this is how it had to be.

Edited by Darth Vader

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34 minutes ago, MohannadAlHamdani said:

how would the Earth and life turn out had Hawa never eaten the apple?

You're reading it from a Biblical narrative, in which Eve tempted Adam which places the blame on her, and consequently the pains of child-birth are a punishment. We disagree.

Both equally were deceived by Shaytan. Both ate from the tree (the fruit is not mentioned).

 

Qur'an 7:22-23

So he made them fall, through deception. And when they tasted of the tree, their private parts became apparent to them, and they began to fasten together over themselves from the leaves of Paradise. And their Lord called to them, "Did I not forbid you from that tree and tell you that Satan is to you a clear enemy?"

 

They said, "Our Lord, we have wronged ourselves, and if You do not forgive us and have mercy upon us, we will surely be among the losers."

 

Also Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) intended to place Adam (عليه السلام) as a khalifah on Earth. The lesson we draw from the "Original Sin", is not that all humans are condemed to inherit Adam's sin from birth, rather we can attain Allah's Mercy from turning unto Him in repentance.

20:122

Then his Lord chose him and turned to him in forgiveness and guided [him].

Edited by Propaganda_of_the_Deed

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If we had everything, if we had no suffering, no need to feel guilt, no need to repent, nothing that needed hiding, would we truly worship Allah? Would we appreciate all He gives us when we come through those dark clouds and feel the warmth on our skin after battling the storm?

When you have everything you don't see the important things that you don't have.

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Haha this thread shows who went to Catholic school and who didn't :hahaha: 

You guys are getting the Qu'ran mixed up with the Bible. Nowhere in the Qu'ran does it say that Hawa (Eve) ate the apple.

And that's a bit sexist honestly, always blaming women for the fall of man from paradise lol

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My bad everyone hahah!

Growing up in a mostly Christian country, one tends to mix up a lot :grin:

Thank you all for your answers, really makes one appreciate life more!

@Propaganda_of_the_Deed @aaaz1618

@Kaya You’re right, my bad I apologize hehe, both are held accountable. Like I said, easy to get it mixed up.

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4 hours ago, MohannadAlHamdani said:

Salam Alaykum everybody!

Just got a question for you guys, how would the Earth and life turn out had Hawa never eaten the apple?

Also how do we know what fruit it was? It's not mentioned in Qur'an or Bible.

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32 minutes ago, Gaius I. Caesar said:

Also how do we know what fruit it was? It's not mentioned in Qur'an or Bible.

I bet an apple farmer made up this myth so that people stopped stealing from his trees :D

Otherwise, why would apples get a bad rep like that? 

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Actually guys In my humble opinion I think you all are missing the point and criticizing the details. What does it matter what the fruit was or who ate it or didn't. The two forgot the warning and did something that angered God. The OP is thinking what if things had went differently.

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59 minutes ago, Darth Vader said:

Actually guys In my humble opinion I think you all are missing the point and criticizing the details. What does it matter what the fruit was or who ate it or didn't. The two forgot the warning and did something that angered God. The OP is thinking what if things had went differently.

I had watched a sermon about this online. The topic was why did God make that fruit haram and why was the result of it the expulsion of Adam from that place.

One of the points analysed was - What if things were different and they did not approach the tree?

If I remember correctly, the answer was that Adam's (عليه السلام) trial was a simulation of how things will be on Earth. For example, he (عليه السلام) was subject to a rule (do not eat from the tree) and we also are subject to rules (do not steal, cheat, lie) etc. So it was a controlled environment and a preview of things to come in the future.

I believe that Adam (عليه السلام) would eventually be brought to Earth regardless, because God had already said:  

"And [mention, O Muhammad], when your Lord said to the angels, "Indeed, I will make upon the Earth a successive authority." They said, "Will You place upon it one who causes corruption therein and sheds blood, while we declare Your praise and sanctify You?" Allah said, "Indeed, I know that which you do not know."" 2:30

So it was predestined for Adam (عليه السلام) and his progeny to be successors on the Earth. But Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) knows best.

Edited by Kaya

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Think about the implications of your question. Are you really suggesting that Allah is making us all go through this type of life only because our ancestors ate something? What kind of justice is that?

Allah is making us go through this life on Earth because it's good for us. The eating of the fruit is a part of a bigger plan. Which doesn't necessarily mean that the act was done without free will.

Edited by Muhammed Ali

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17 hours ago, Kaya said:

I bet an apple farmer made up this myth so that people stopped stealing from his trees :D

Otherwise, why would apples get a bad rep like that? 

The evil woman in Snow White gives them a bad repertoire too. Or did she use an apple because of the original sin story? Would be interesting to know... Well, mildly interesting.

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22 hours ago, MohannadAlHamdani said:

Salam Alaykum everybody!

Just got a question for you guys, how would the Earth and life turn out had Hawa never eaten the apple?

I thought long and hard about that Hazrat Hawa (عليه السلام) would not have been able to resist the desire to eat apple. This desire, however, was not for apple or for sin because she had plenty of food there also God did not declare that eating was punishable. The real reason was curiosity for "ilm" that what happens if you eat apple. Thus, apple proved to be key for this world. Curiosity always leads you to do from which you are stopped.

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31 minutes ago, Flying_Eagle said:

The real reason was curiosity for "ilm" that what happens if you eat apple. Thus, apple proved to be key for this world. Curiosity always leads you to do from which you are stopped.

What you are describing is the reason satanists hold Shaytan in a positive light.

Quote

The Satanic Temple, which says it doesn't worship satan, says it views the snake and apple as a symbol representing the gift and pursuit of knowledge.

"We see Satan as a hero in that story, of course, spreading knowledge," Satanic Temple-Chicago spokesman Lex Manticore said.

https://www.upi.com/Top_News/US/2018/12/05/Satanic-Temple-statue-joins-Illinois-Capitol-holiday-displays/6301544047681/

Edited by Propaganda_of_the_Deed

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9 hours ago, Flying_Eagle said:

How?

Because like OP did, you are using a Biblical narrative. It is not the "tree of knowledge" according to us. It is not even named. And as I showed, satanists interpret this for their own views.

Quote

Thus according to clean words of the Bible the first and the greatest sin of man was the sin of knowledge and insight. And probably it is the reason that the church leaders in the middle used to battle against the intellectuals, scientists and writers of their time and they used to dread the spread of this sin. They used to believe that on the first day Adam ((عليه السلام).) was ignorant that he was not ashamed of his nakedness but when he ate of the forbidden fruit (knowledge and intellect) or became rational being, he became a sinner and he was expelled from Paradise and the proximity of the Lord.

 

Quote

On the contrary the Holy Qur’an says that before setting in Paradise, Adam ((عليه السلام).) possessed a vast knowledge and intellect and was to a great extent needless of the tree of knowledge and insight. So much so that he had become the teacher and instructor of the angels.

'We taught Adam all the names'1

Therefore this Adam is absolutely different from the Adam who is described by the Bible. The greatest source of this power of Adam ((عليه السلام).) is knowledge and insight. And the greatest sin of that Adam is knowledge. This Adam is Adam in the proper sense and that Adam is ignorant from all aspects.

https://www.al-Islam.org/philosophy-Islamic-laws-nasir-makarim-shirazi-jafar-subhani/question-56-prohibited-tree-tree

Edited by Propaganda_of_the_Deed

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Salam,

1.  Iblis was tested, he failed and never repented.

2. Adam (عليه السلام) was tested too, but he repented.

We all descended to this world with one more excellent quality that all humans can repent and return to Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) and be at the place better than where Adam (عليه السلام) at the beginning (future)..

Without this quality.."repentant", we are not going to make good choices and appreciate the free wills given to us.

I also believe that whether Adam (عليه السلام) ate or not, we all would be descended to this current world. 

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2 hours ago, Propaganda_of_the_Deed said:

Because like OP did, you are using a Biblical narrative. It is not the "tree of knowledge" according to us. It is not even named. And as I showed, satanists interpret this for their own views

I never said it tree of knowledge, I said curiosity. Besides, before that food, Hazrat Hawa (عليه السلام) was not aware that Iblis could forsake his religion to the extent that he took oath on a lie. So, according to Qur'an satanists could not prove satan right. His aim was to degrade those pious personalities but in turn, he was debased before both Hazrat Adam (عليه السلام) and Hazrat Hawa (عليه السلام) being cursed forever by their children.

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We were destined for the Earth regardless if they ate from the tree or not.

وَإِذْ قَالَ رَبُّكَ لِلْمَلَائِكَةِ إِنِّي جَاعِلٌ فِي الْأَرْضِ خَلِيفَةً ۖ قَالُوا أَتَجْعَلُ فِيهَا مَن يُفْسِدُ فِيهَا وَيَسْفِكُ الدِّمَاءَ وَنَحْنُ نُسَبِّحُ بِحَمْدِكَ وَنُقَدِّسُ لَكَ ۖ قَالَ إِنِّي أَعْلَمُ مَا لَا تَعْلَمُونَ

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5 hours ago, Ibn Al-Shahid said:

We were destined for the Earth regardless if they ate from the tree or not.

وَإِذْ قَالَ رَبُّكَ لِلْمَلَائِكَةِ إِنِّي جَاعِلٌ فِي الْأَرْضِ خَلِيفَةً ۖ قَالُوا أَتَجْعَلُ فِيهَا مَن يُفْسِدُ فِيهَا وَيَسْفِكُ الدِّمَاءَ وَنَحْنُ نُسَبِّحُ بِحَمْدِكَ وَنُقَدِّسُ لَكَ ۖ قَالَ إِنِّي أَعْلَمُ مَا لَا تَعْلَمُونَ

In addition: Allah's plan will always be fulfilled because Allah can change reality to find another way.

Quote

Qur'an 5:54 - O you who believe! whoever from among you turns back from his religion, then Allah will bring a people, He shall love them and they shall love Him, lowly before the believers, mighty against the unbelievers, they shall strive hard in Allah's way and shall not fear the censure of any censurer; this is Allah's Face, He gives it to whom He pleases, and Allah is Ample-giving, Knowing.

Here Allah says that if some 'companions' would have left Islam then Allah would use other people to do what was to be done. So if they didn't eat the fruit then another way would be found to complete the whole of the plan.

However, we shouldn't oversimplify this and think that Allah was waiting to see what would happen before deciding what to do; he knew what they would do 'before' they did it. The plan of Allah has been constructed to work around the free actions of human beings. Thus free will exists together with predetermination.

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