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In the Name of God بسم الله
alih13

No longer a Muslim, how to proceed

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4 hours ago, alih13 said:

all the wealthy Muslims have this one belief, that Allah provides their wealth and rizq. they thank God for the food they eat and the beautiful life they enjoy. yet when you ask them what of those dying of hunger, where is Allah for them? then it is oppressors of the world that seem to be stealing resources from Allah? 

Why does  God allow suffering ? |Answering atheism 3 | BISKIT

Love of this lowly world (Dunia) is your disease |brother Khalil Jafar

 

Edited by Ashvazdanghe

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Many people stay as cultural Muslims while holding doubts internally, while keeping the door of faith slightly open, in case they ever come back in the future. Call it either fitrah or rationality. 

Shutting the door completely and telling others? Usually those promised cushy jobs, TV appearances, or book deals do that. Or people simply willing to evoke the nuclear option on one’s family. Where’s the benefit here? I’m speaking purely on this basis.

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4 hours ago, alih13 said:

if ppl missed, I said my return to Islam is through these 2 means:

1. If God speaks to me.

or (wasnt able to add this OR to my last post)

2. a Prophet or living Imam speaks with me and answers my question.

or

3. Something unknown occurs as God wishes.

People say this, but if these were to actually happen, people would still make up some excuse, find a way to dismiss it as magic, deception, coincidence, natural science, randomness, imagination, insufficient, conspiracy, lunacy, etc. 

That’s like saying I’ll believe in God if he gives me $1000, you get it, then say, “no it’s a coincidence”, so you say you’ll believe if you get, $2000, then on and on. Then you won’t believe until you get the whole universe, and maybe not even then.

It sounds insane to have a validation system based on human whim, I suppose the creator knows what’s he doing, and what we’ve already been given is sufficient to believe, if one’s heart is receptive towards it. 

There’s no compulsion in belief. You’re free to choose whatever path you want, with all benefits and consequences therein. But don’t make big decisions lightly.

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7 hours ago, Reza said:

People say this, but if these were to actually happen, people would still make up some excuse, find a way to dismiss it as magic, deception, coincidence, natural science, randomness, imagination, insufficient, conspiracy, lunacy, etc. 

That’s like saying I’ll believe in God if he gives me $1000, you get it, then say, “no it’s a coincidence”, so you say you’ll believe if you get, $2000, then on and on. Then you won’t believe until you get the whole universe, and maybe not even then.

It sounds insane to have a validation system based on human whim, I suppose the creator knows what’s he doing, and what we’ve already been given is sufficient to believe, if one’s heart is receptive towards it. 

There’s no compulsion in belief. You’re free to choose whatever path you want, with all benefits and consequences therein. But don’t make big decisions lightly.

Many athiests and disbelievers came to Islam after meeting an Imam or Prophet, or did that never happen? 

secondly, if I am a disbeliever now, what difference make then?

everything you've stated is an assumption.

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11 hours ago, 2Timeless said:

@alih13 have you ever been on Hajj? Going there could bring about the event you desire .

I'm not sure spending several thousands of dollars/pounds to go to a place where most religious charisma has been flattened with bulldozers would help him. 

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11 hours ago, Ashvazdanghe said:

Salam for number

1.read Qur'an in must if you read at least one page everyday you will find out that it talks with you even you randomly choose & read an Ayah or verse .

2.you can write your question for forty days to Imam Mahdi (aj) & drop it in flowing water or in a well or put it in a special place also you can visit duas.org for bedtime (sleeping) recommendation that explains how you can see a Prophet or Imam in your dream

3.it depends on you what is unknown event because it's unique about any person like as receiving answer from Imam Mahdi(aj) in number 2 that for occuring it you must practice something like as reciting zyarat Ashura for 40 days or other rituals that you can find in duas.org or mafatihul jonan that must be practic s based on procedure that majority of them must continue for 40 days.

when I was Muslim I used to waste my time doing these rituals. what is the benefit of a 

SILENT and MUTE:

God

Dead Prophets

Dead and hidden Imam + Friends

Angels

Jinn

anything unseen

 

None of these indicate a communicating intelligent God. 

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7 minutes ago, aaaz1618 said:

I'm not sure spending several thousands of dollars/pounds to go to a place where most religious charisma has been flattened with bulldozers would help him. 

been a few times...

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18 minutes ago, alih13 said:

Many athiests and disbelievers came to Islam after meeting an Imam or Prophet, or did that never happen? 

Yeah, that did happen, but others continued to disbelieve, or were hypocrites regardless. That’s how many of them got killed (even in cold blood). So obviously simply meeting them was not enough, the inclination to believe has to already be there, which requires a receptive heart.

26 minutes ago, alih13 said:

secondly, if I am a disbeliever now, what difference make then?

You tell me, I don’t know.

27 minutes ago, alih13 said:

everything you've stated is an assumption.

Give your own alternative view of human nature then. Why should I doubt the one I said?

27 minutes ago, alih13 said:

also what exactly is the purpose of a living Imam if he's not there to guide people? not only Muslims but anyone! these 40 day rituals make no sense!

Guidance is a two way street. There’s a responsibility on both sides. It’s not a passive one way process.

A student has to put in their own effort for internalization, merely being spoon fed won’t do anything.

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15 hours ago, alih13 said:

If God speaks to me.

salam alykum wrwb,

It is not obligatory to worship Allah(سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) up until Allah(سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) has manifested Himself(سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) upon you.

ws

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Would a trial separation be a feasible option for you and your wife? Maybe if you took a month or two apart to get clarity on your needs, it could help you refocus and consider how to proceed.  If there's any part of you that still loves her, perhaps you could communicate to her what you're missing or what specifically you need out of the marriage that isn't there.  When it comes to something as critical as the future of your family, you shouldn't walk away without exploring every possible solution.  Maybe you could try a vacation with just the two of you to see if you can rekindle your connection and be vulnerable and honest with each other again.  If you've been privately battling your loss of faith without cluing her in, chances are you both have a lot of walls up that are inhibiting the possibility of emotional intimacy.
 
If you end up deciding that divorce is the healthiest option, you need to have a very open, honest conversation with your wife about everything you've been thinking and feeling, with regard to religion, marriage, the future of your family, etc.  It will be painful, but she deserves to know the truth, and you deserve to have your feelings heard by your life partner. 
 
This may sound unorthodox, but before you proceed with any life-altering decisions, would you consider going to therapy for your own personal growth and mental peace? Not to save your marriage or even your faith, but to better understand what this shift will entail for your mental well-being, and perhaps to assess past experiences you may need to heal from? I have a friend whose parents experienced a very acrimonious divorce because her father decided he no longer wanted to be with her mom.  Within that time frame, he fell in love with another woman, married her, and started a new family.  Though I'm sure the initial high of 'falling in love' again was thrilling, her father is still a deeply unhappy, lost man who hasn't been able to fill the void within him, because the external details of his life were never the core issue.  The core problem is that he had past trauma and emotional baggage he had never dealt with or healed from, including the toxic dynamic of his own parents' marriage.  If you do end up separating from your wife and want to retain a positive relationship with your children, your best hope of doing so lies in healthy self-development and personal healing.

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On 8/15/2019 at 4:31 PM, alih13 said:

Something unknown occurs as God wishes.

Our Christian Bible assures us that if we seek for God, He will reveal Himself to us. I am praying you will find what you are seeking.

7 "Ask, and it will be given to you; seek, and you will find; knock, and it will be opened to you.
8 For everyone who asks receives, and the one who seeks finds, and to the one who knocks it will be opened.
9 Or which one of you, if his son asks him for bread, will give him a stone?
10 Or if he asks for a fish, will give him a serpent?
11 If you then, who are evil, know how to give good gifts to your children, how much more will your Father who is in heaven give good things to those who ask him! - Matthew 7:7-11

35 Jesus said to them, "I am the bread of life; whoever comes to me shall not hunger, and whoever believes in me shall never thirst.
36 But I said to you that you have seen me and yet do not believe.
37 All that the Father gives me will come to me, and whoever comes to me I will never cast out. - John 6:35-37

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On 8/16/2019 at 4:38 AM, alih13 said:

when I was Muslim I used to waste my time doing these rituals. what is the benefit of a 

SILENT and MUTE:

God

Dead Prophets

Dead and hidden Imam + Friends

Angels

Jinn

anything unseen

 

None of these indicate a communicating intelligent God. 

I'm not the most religious person in the world but it is still possible to have tangible experiences in those "unseen" things you mentioned. There have been a few times in my adult life where I've felt touched/scratched by jinn when I was alone and saw the scratches/marks left too, and had a few very specific precognitive dreams and visions while awake among other things. Everyone's faith is tested by different hardships than someone else's... Maybe your test is not to experience any of those "unseen" things and see if your faith can withstand it?

Edited by Lilly14

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Guest Monad

I can save you op.

Ask your self these simple questions.

How will your life be different to what is it to now?. Will your thoughts, feelings and ideas change?. Can one empty their past from their minds. if It has already been imprinted.

Lets say you meet a new woman, new life, make more money, what is the time period that this new found happiness will not revert back to the dilemma of nihilism. 

Life is tough whether is belief or disbelief.

If you have left, what is your moral and ethical choices now. We know from both philosophical and psychological perspective that moral and ethics are needed for a balanced lifestyle.

If you were running a company or were a professor , somewhere where you position was in charge of the many, how would you behave?. Irrational or rational?.

You have a family, do not break it apart due to fantasy. Yes it is quite frustrating if someone is constantly being religious but it is also the same if someone is not. Where is your middle ground?. Can you improve you tolerance rate.

Yes, religion does not have all the answers, and maybe it does, but the way it has been propagated is very poor. They went into the avenue of story telling and subservient ship rather then follow progression and rational development. But at the same time, consider human behavior. Humans come in many types, and they never change. I had a conversation with a successful individual, and they did not like what I said, because I am a peasant class. All I did was quote someone from their own field.

Humans will never make you happy. The only person who can make you happy is you and your own thoughts. Whatever system we follow, they are all deceptive to some extent.

Make some simple choices and live by them. Escapism from non tyranny will not solve the problem.

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Dear alih13,

I am sorry to hear what you've said. I can tell you though, keep your heart open and clean, keep your intentions pure. If you can manage to keep that going, then you shouldn't be afraid of any one or any thing.

May Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) guide you on your journey.

Regards,

Khudi

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I will suggest that you do not declare that you are an apostate. The law that apostate are wajibul qatl, can be misused. Your enemies can use this excuse to kill you. You would be surprised that many violent and sadistic people have become religious and they love to punish others for their sins. They also think killing someone is not a big deal, they joke about killing people and they can kill you. If you go on vacation in an eastern country, there it's very easy to get away with murder. Someone can kill you in west and then run away to eastern country. People have tried many times to declare that I am an apostate. I have heard scholars reminding them that unless someone openly states that he is an apostate, you cannot kill them. If scholars are talking about an issue repeatedly, then that means they are not just talking about history, there is an issue of some people wanting to kill an apostate in the community. Evil people love to oppress others and unfortunately many evil people are becoming super religious, and now they use religion to satisfy their sadistic needs. Muslims don't take this issue lightly if a born Muslim apostates, and if a large group of people get together to conspire against you, they can even get away with murder in west. Recently, I have noticed that some scholars are even trying to glorify murder, always talking about how many people were killed by Imam Ali and other Imams. 

Edited by rkazmi33

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Incredible how many people advise him to be hypocrite (munafiq) by hiding his disbelief by pretending to be a Muslim. 

-

“And of mankind (there) are some who say, "We have believed in Allah and in the Last Day." And in no way are they believers.

They try to deceive Allah and (the ones) who have believed, and in no way do they deceive (anyone) except themselves, and in no way are they aware.

In their hearts is a sickness. So Allah has increased them in sickness, and for them is a painful torment for (that) they used to lie."

[al-Baqarah 2:8-10]

"And when they meet the ones who have believed they say, "We have believed, " and when they go apart to their shayatin, (The all-vicious (ones), I.e. devils) they say, "Surely we are with you; surely we are only mocking.

Allah mocks them and grants them extension in blundering in their inordinance."

[al-Baqarah 2:14-15]

-

Do not keep an outward show of Islam if you have no inner belief in Islam. Be honest to your own self and to others!

However, if you sincerely wish to pursue having faith, then try praying, meditation, and reading books written for atheists as an introduction to Islam. Otherwise at least be consistent in your principles and openly declare your views. 

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2 hours ago, Kaya said:

Incredible how many people advise him to be hypocrite (munafiq) by hiding his disbelief by pretending to be a Muslim. 

Advices like this were given taking into consideration his family (kids and wife, who are essentially vulnerable).

Otherwise, if he had no family, I doubt anyone would tell him it's better to hide his disbelief in Islam. Life isn't black and white. 

Lying about your faith for more important issues in your life is also present in Shia Islam in the form of taqiyyah.

Edited by Bakir

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On 8/15/2019 at 6:12 PM, Ashvazdanghe said:

Salam for number

1.read Qur'an in must if you read at least one page everyday you will find out that it talks with you even you randomly choose & read an Ayah or verse .

2.you can write your question for forty days to Imam Mahdi (aj) & drop it in flowing water or in a well or put it in a special place also you can visit duas.org for bedtime (sleeping) recommendation that explains how you can see a Prophet or Imam in your dream

3.it depends on you what is unknown event because it's unique about any person like as receiving answer from Imam Mahdi(aj) in number 2 that for occuring it you must practice something like as reciting zyarat Ashura for 40 days or other rituals that you can find in duas.org or mafatihul jonan that must be practic s based on procedure that majority of them must continue for 40 days.

This is ridiculous and blatant shirk, and I say this as a Shia Muslim. Help and guidance should be asked ONLY from Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى). Not to digress from the topic too much folks, but we really need to stay focused and continuously emphasize that Islam is above all a monotheistic religion.

With regards to the topic creator, almost all Muslims encounter doubt of faith at some point or another. In your case, the lack of faith appears severe. All I can advise is that you continuously reflect upon the order of the universe - its origins, how it came into being, the sustenance of all forms of life, etc. Not necessarily from a religious point of view, but from a scientific and philosophical point of view. I wish I had better advice, but I can say that as a man of science, studying the complexities of the human body affirmed my belief in a divine creator and helped to assuage doubts in faith.

You are in a very difficult position, without a doubt, and may Allah grant you guidance and peace of heart and mind.

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1 hour ago, user01 said:

This is ridiculous and blatant shirk, and I say this as a Shia Muslim. Help and guidance should be asked ONLY from Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى).

If Imam Mahdi (عجّل الله تعالى فرجه الشريف) was present, you would not ask him questions? :confused:

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12 minutes ago, ireallywannaknow said:

If Imam Mahdi (عجّل الله تعالى فرجه الشريف) was present, you would not ask him questions? :confused:

I would happily ask him questions if he was present, as I would with an esteemed religious scholar when I seek religious advice. When I need divine guidance, I beseech Allah and only Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى). Asking Allah to help me for the sake of Ahlul Bayt ((عليه السلام).) is IMMENSELY different than asking members of Ahlul Bayt for help. Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) is the best of Providers, period.

don’t conflate two simple but fundamentally different concepts. Stop giving ammunition to the Salafist terrorists. Monotheism and the recognition of Allah's exclusive, absolute power is fundamental to our faith and must be incessantly emphasized.

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To be perfectly honest, if I ever apostate then I would immediately travel to Iran/Saudi to explain to a big religious leader to receive guidance and gain the pleasure of God or atone for my big sin. That is all I can say on this matter without being double faced.

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4 hours ago, user01 said:

This is ridiculous and blatant shirk, and I say this as a Shia Muslim. Help and guidance should be asked ONLY from Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى

We find out another Salafi /wahabi here :hahaha:

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2 hours ago, Darth Vader said:

To be perfectly honest, if I ever apostate then I would immediately travel to Iran/Saudi to explain to a big religious leader to receive guidance and gain the pleasure of God or atone for my big sin. That is all I can say on this matter without being double faced.

Salam if you become apostate & travel to Iran to declare it so it will cause trouble for you & if you go to Saudi they will behead you  to show you Allah by your killing :hahaha:

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3 hours ago, Darth Vader said:

if I ever apostate then I would immediately travel to Iran/Saudi to explain to a big religious leader to receive guidance and gain the pleasure of God or atone for my big sin. 

If you really apostated, you wouldn't be seeking religious guidance or seek to gain the pleasure of a God whom you allegedly no longer believe in.

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5 hours ago, user01 said:

and guidance should be asked ONLY from Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى). Not to digress from the topic too much folks, but we really need to stay focused and continuously emphasize that Islam is above all a monotheistic religion.

Salam the classical response is why you ask help from doctor for curing your illness anyway all Sunni school of taughts accepted Twasul through living pious/divine  people like as brothers of Prophet Yusuf (عليه السلام) asked for forgiveness by Allah through their father Prophet Yaghub (عليه السلام) & Prophet Ibrahim (عليه السلام) said will ask forgiveness for his father/uncle Azar & also Allah said I'm Qur'an that if Prophet Muhammad (pbu) asks forgiveness for hypocrites it won't accept by Allah but based on Sunni sources people asked help from Prophet even after his demise that only ibn Taymia & Abudl wahab as founders of Wahabism rejected this idea althought they accepted asking Tawasul from living persons that Imam Mahdi (aj) as closest person to Allah (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم)in our world is alive that is present between us & you can ask your question from him by these procedures 

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On 8/18/2019 at 2:08 AM, Kaya said:

“And of mankind (there) are some who say, "We have believed in Allah and in the Last Day." And in no way are they believers.

They try to deceive Allah and (the ones) who have believed, and in no way do they deceive (anyone) except themselves, and in no way are they aware.

In their hearts is a sickness. So Allah has increased them in sickness, and for them is a painful torment for (that) they used to lie."

[al-Baqarah 2:8-10]

"And when they meet the ones who have believed they say, "We have believed, " and when they go apart to their shayatin, (The all-vicious (ones), I.e. devils) they say, "Surely we are with you; surely we are only mocking.

Allah mocks them and grants them extension in blundering in their inordinance."

[al-Baqarah 2:14-15]

-

Do not keep an outward show of Islam if you have no inner belief in Islam.

maybe it has to do with taking guidance for granted. 

Apathy.

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