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In the Name of God بسم الله

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Hey guys 

I wanted to share and bring to your attention that so many Shias that I know personally make me disturbed they exaggerate the status of Imams so much to the point some say they weren’t humans they were Imams ! What is this suppose to mean :hahaha:. Furthermore are you guys pro or against people making alams and ziyarat with their own hands and then asking DUAS to it I’m not even kidding they say oh Hazart Abbas (عليه السلام) grant me this and this . They do SAJDA to them ziyaarat as well it shocks me and these are people who read Islamic books over books and I’m just dumbfounded by the things they do . Where I come from there are people who make flower garlands and put in on the ziyarat and then  touch it and cry and ask dua ????!!!!!!!!

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8 hours ago, Noor Taleb said:

people who make flower garlands

I don't know what problem you have with a straight man playing with a flowery necklace. There is nothing wrong with it at all, a heterosexual, straight, perfectly happy straight man married to a woman in a loving straight heterosexual marriage, playing with a necklace made out of flowers... 

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6 hours ago, aaaz1618 said:

I don't know what problem you have with a straight man playing with a flowery necklace. There is nothing wrong with it at all, a heterosexual, straight, perfectly happy straight man married to a woman in a loving straight heterosexual marriage, playing with a necklace made out of flowers... 

Hahhaha Bollywood wedding 

:hahaha:

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22 minutes ago, Mortadakerim said:

This is not right. Exaggeration should be avoided at all times and our Imams (عليه السلام) are servants of Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى), just like us. And as for those who call upon other than Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى), refrain from this act and reserve your duas for Allah ((سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى)):

It is You we worship and You we ask for help (1:5)

Visiting them is no problem, just like visiting the grave of a relative or a loved one.

Exactly brother well said !

how do I make these people understand 

:cry:

Edited by Noor Taleb

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5 hours ago, Gaius I. Caesar said:

You don't, it's out of your control. Don't worry about other people, focus on you.

Had these been strangers maybe I would’ve  not cared 

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5 hours ago, Noor Taleb said:

Had these been strangers maybe I would’ve have cared 

Even if they are family, you are responsible for yourself only. Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) sees what they do and is the best of judges. 

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3 hours ago, Noor Taleb said:

Hey guys 

I wanted to share and bring to your attention that so many Shias that I know personally make me disturbed they exaggerate the status of Imams so much to the point some say they weren’t humans they were Imams ! What is this suppose to mean :hahaha:. Furthermore are you guys pro or against people making alams and ziyarat with their own hands and then asking DUAS to it I’m not even kidding they say oh Hazart Abbas (عليه السلام) grant me this and this . They do SAJDA to them ziyaarat as well it shocks me and these are people who read Islamic books over books and I’m just dumbfounded by the things they do . Where I come from there are people who make flower garlands and put in on the ziyarat and then  touch it and cry and ask dua ????!!!!!!!!

As regards status of Imam Ali (عليه السلام), Prophet (PBUHHP) said: "O! Ali, no one knows you except Allah (عزّ وجلّ) and Prophet (PBUHHP)". I would like to say that we are not to think about what Imams are made of or about their creation, It is secret known to Allah (عزّ وجلّ). It is not less than miracle that Imam Ali (عليه السلام) wore lighter clothes in Winter and heavier clothes in Summer, even then he was not perturbed by those things. He never was wearied in wars. Allama Muhammad Iqbal said to himself "Iqbal bhi Iqbal say Agha Nahin hain, Kuch iss main tamskhar nahin, Wallah Nahin hai" (Iqbal is not aware of Iqbal himself, that is not joke, I swear it is not joke). 

Let us leave Ahlebait (عليه السلام) and talk about what they talked about. Neither you nor I know what they were. And, it may happen that while you talk about them, either you lower his beings or make exaggerations in it.

Alams and Ziyarat are symbols, when we pray facing them, it is like we pray facing kabatullah, because Kabatullah is also sign of Allah (عزّ وجلّ) and not real house of Allah (عزّ وجلّ). Like we face Kabatullah and have Allah (عزّ وجلّ) in minds, when we face towards Alam and Ziyarat, we have Mola Abbas (عليه السلام) and Imams in our sights. We use them by saying that Ya Allah! this is the sign of your great one who gave his entire life for you, commemorating those pure personalities besides their symbols,we ask you with their intercession, you fulfill our such and such dua.

About Hazrat Abbas (عليه السلام), the correct way of prayer should be that O! Hazrat Abbas (عليه السلام) intercede on my behalf and pray to Allah (عزّ وجلّ) that He (عزّ وجلّ) give me son. However, if a person do not want to learn the correct way, then it is matter of Hazrat Abbas (عليه السلام), Allah (عزّ وجلّ) and that man. 

Sajda is haram except if they do with the intention that it is to Allah (عزّ وجلّ) for thanks.

There are some people who are spreading Nusairiyat, and reading books, is not proof that they are right.

If people put garlands to Ziayarat what wrong is in it ? Ziayrat are symbols and they can be taken care of and flowers can be laid before them to respect the Martyred ones as world do lay flowers in commemoration of those who are killed due to terrorist attack and what is wrong in crying near symbols for the person who was associated with that sign ? Is it forbidden to remember the one who is been commemorated by the symbol ? 

Edited by Flying_Eagle

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24 minutes ago, Noor Taleb said:

Had these been strangers maybe I would’ve  not cared 

This is probably deeply planted in them and this older generation, most of the times are laymen and not influenced by media. People do not know what flaws are attributed to them and do not recognize what is right and wrong in their beliefs, unless their local preacher tells them. So, I think Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) forgives their ignorance, insha’Allah.

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5 minutes ago, 786:) said:

haha one of my favorite topics. Most mainstreamers hate this topic because the defense is hard and often resort to "we shouldnt speak of things we do not know for certain". LOL

Glad I could bring it up :grin:

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5 hours ago, Propaganda_of_the_Deed said:

الأمر بالمعروف والنهي عن المنكر

قُلْ أَغَيْرَ اللَّهِ أَبْغِي رَبًّا وَهُوَ رَبُّ كُلِّ شَيْءٍ ۚ وَلَا تَكْسِبُ كُلُّ نَفْسٍ إِلَّا عَلَيْهَا ۚ وَلَا تَزِرُ وَازِرَةٌ وِزْرَ أُخْرَىٰ ۚ ثُمَّ إِلَىٰ رَبِّكُم مَّرْجِعُكُمْ فَيُنَبِّئُكُم بِمَا كُنتُمْ فِيهِ تَخْتَلِفُونَ - 6:164

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3 minutes ago, Gaius I. Caesar said:

قُلْ أَغَيْرَ اللَّهِ أَبْغِي رَبًّا وَهُوَ رَبُّ كُلِّ شَيْءٍ ۚ وَلَا تَكْسِبُ كُلُّ نَفْسٍ إِلَّا عَلَيْهَا ۚ وَلَا تَزِرُ وَازِرَةٌ وِزْرَ أُخْرَىٰ ۚ ثُمَّ إِلَىٰ رَبِّكُم مَّرْجِعُكُمْ فَيُنَبِّئُكُم بِمَا كُنتُمْ فِيهِ تَخْتَلِفُونَ - 6:164

Yes we are not responsible or accountable for others, however, enjoining the good and forbidding the evil are fundamental for Shia, which is why these two commands are part of Furu3 ad-Deen.

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18 minutes ago, Gaius I. Caesar said:

Yes, but forbidding evil and enjoining good doesn't and should not burden a person, particularly youth into thinking that they are responsible for sins of others.

If there's nothing that OP can do about it like e.g. the ghuluw, then she should leave it to Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) because there will always be people taking religion to extremes and doing bidah. 

P.S. I wonder how many these Azadari practices are actually older than the revelation of Muhammad (sawas) and have pagan origins? 

Who know maybe they are of pagan origins 

and an interesting fact is that I visit a place 

where these things are made and honored like 

cried upon and stuff it’s painful

to watch 

Edited by Noor Taleb

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On 8/7/2019 at 11:36 AM, Mortadakerim said:

our Imams (عليه السلام) are servants of Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى), just like us.

Are you really claiming to be a "Mukhlas" servant of Allah? Are you from among the "Tahireen"? Are you from among the "Ma'someen" ((عليه السلام))? 

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I think you have the hadith of Ghadeer, all depends on how you have accepted the "Wilayah" of Prophet (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم) because Ahlul Bayt (عليه السلام) holds the same "Wilayah" though none of them was/is a Prophet. 

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On 8/8/2019 at 1:42 PM, Logic1234 said:

Are you really claiming to be a "Mukhlas" servant of Allah? Are you from among the "Tahireen"? Are you from among the "Ma'someen" ((عليه السلام))? 

I think you got me wrong. I meant that our Imams (عليه السلام) cannot grant us anything. Our Imams are indeed infallible free from error in guidance and all sins.

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11 minutes ago, Mortadakerim said:

I meant that our Imams (عليه السلام) cannot grant us anything.

Tell that to Imam Ali when you cross the ṣirāt.

In Āḵḫbār Āṣbāhan (Isfahan), page(s) 241-242, by Aʾbu Nuʾāym ʿal-Iṣfāhani.

Narrated Sāwwar bin Ahmad bin Aʾbi Sāwwar, from Ali bin Ahmad bin Bishr ʿal-Kisāʾi, from Aʾbu l-Abbas ʿal-Hāytham bin Ahmad ʿal-Zāydani, from Ḏhūl-Nun Ibrāhim ʿal-Miṣri, from Mālik bin Anās, from Jʾafar bin Muḥāmmad, from his father, from his grandfather, that the Prophet said:

“When the day of resurrection comes, and the ṣirāt would be placed across hell, no one would pass except he who had a permit with the Wilāyah of Ali.”

gsD5AaI.jpg

Also in ʿal-Manāqib, by ʿIbn al-Māġhazili, page 174, ḥādith (156).

Narrated al-Sudi, from ʿIbn Fuḍhāyl, from Yāzīd bin Aʾbi Ziyād, from Mujāhid, from ʿIbn Abbas, that the Prophet said:

“Ali on the day of resurrection is on the pond (ḥāwḍh) - in charge - no one will enter paradise except he who came with a permit from Ali bin Aʾbi Ṭālib.”

9r18Fot.jpg

Edited by Simon the Canaanite

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35 minutes ago, Simon the Canaanite said:

Tell that to Imam Ali when you cross the ṣirāt.

This is also what I did not say. I said the Imams cannot grant us anything in this live. And we cannot do dua to them. Reserve your duas for Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى)

Edited by Mortadakerim

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18 minutes ago, Mortadakerim said:

This is also what I did not say. I said the Imams cannot grant us anything in this live. And we cannot do dua to them. Reserve your duas for Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى)

Words of wisdom 

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1 hour ago, Mortadakerim said:

I meant that our Imams (عليه السلام) cannot grant us anything.

Ok, why there is a verse in Qur'an mentioning that when any from companions do wrong they used to meet Prophet (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم) and request him to ask for their forgiveness from Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى)?

"If, then, after having sinned against themselves, they would but come round to thee and ask God to forgive them - with the Apostle, too, praying that they be forgiven - they would assuredly find that God is an acceptor of repentance, a dispenser of grace."

Edited by Cool

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43 minutes ago, Cool said:

If, then, after having sinned against themselves, they would but come round to thee and ask God to forgive them - with the Apostle, too, praying that they be forgiven - they would assuredly find that God is an acceptor of repentance, a dispenser of grace."

Because then the Prophet was among them.

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People misunderstand the concept of Tawassul. Yes, I do also believe that some people do take it next level, but kissing the shrines of the Imams (عليه السلام), praying next to their tomb, making dua is common and is not associated with shirk.

On 8/7/2019 at 9:55 PM, Noor Taleb said:

Hey guys 

I wanted to share and bring to your attention that so many Shias that I know personally make me disturbed they exaggerate the status of Imams so much to the point some say they weren’t humans they were Imams ! What is this suppose to mean :hahaha:. Furthermore are you guys pro or against people making alams and ziyarat with their own hands and then asking DUAS to it I’m not even kidding they say oh Hazart Abbas (عليه السلام) grant me this and this . They do SAJDA to them ziyaarat as well it shocks me and these are people who read Islamic books over books and I’m just dumbfounded by the things they do . Where I come from there are people who make flower garlands and put in on the ziyarat and then  touch it and cry and ask dua ????!!!!!!!!

Some people do take it to the next level, which is sad because we have these Salafis that'll do anything just to make Shias look bad so they'll pick out these type of people to make us look like we're mushrikeen.

 

 

13 minutes ago, Mortadakerim said:

Because then the Prophet was among them.

The Prophet (sawas) and his Ahlul Bayt (عليه السلام) are always amongst us. 

 

1 hour ago, Mortadakerim said:

This is also what I did not say. I said the Imams cannot grant us anything in this live. And we cannot do dua to them. Reserve your duas for Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى)

This is what I mean when people misunderstand the concept of Tawassul. Think of it as you asking somebody to make dua for you, is that considered shirk? This is what Tawassul is. We are asking the Ahlul Bayt(عليه السلام) to make dua for us.

We are asking for our needs to Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) by getting closer to the people who are the closest to him, and that is the Ahlul Bayt (عليه السلام). Shirk is when we ask them to forgive our sins, to accept our prayers, to cure our sickness. If we ask for all those things, we're doing it through these pious people who are the face of Allah on this Earth. 

 

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9 minutes ago, 3wliya_maryam said:

 

We are asking for our needs to Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) by getting closer to the people who are the closest to him, and that is the Ahlul Bayt (عليه السلام). Shirk is when we ask them to forgive our sins, to accept our prayers, to cure our sickness. If we ask for all those things, we're doing it through these pious people who are the face of Allah on this Earth. 

 

I’ve seen some people make promise to Ahlul Bayt then they break it and ask forgiveness. For breaking the promise then do tawba to Allah is this correct ?

they say that you can promise to Ahlul Bayt

eg if you hurt your mom by breaking a promise done to her first you need to ask forgiveness from her than only Allah will forgive you 

is this view ok 

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On 8/7/2019 at 6:55 PM, Noor Taleb said:

Hey guys 

I wanted to share and bring to your attention that so many Shias that I know personally make me disturbed they exaggerate the status of Imams so much to the point some say they weren’t humans they were Imams ! What is this suppose to mean :hahaha:. Furthermore are you guys pro or against people making alams and ziyarat with their own hands and then asking DUAS to it I’m not even kidding they say oh Hazart Abbas (عليه السلام) grant me this and this . They do SAJDA to them ziyaarat as well it shocks me and these are people who read Islamic books over books and I’m just dumbfounded by the things they do . Where I come from there are people who make flower garlands and put in on the ziyarat and then  touch it and cry and ask dua ????!!!!!!!!

If you are following the usool and the furoo and refuse to take part in any ritual not done by the Imams or the Prophets or the 313 of the Badr or even the companions of the Imams, then all is just fine. Personally I am already in a little conflict here where I live with those who insist that Imam Ali (عليه السلام) is Allah (astaghfirullah). They have alams in the local Shia mosque and they act like Hindus passing by them and have invented their own way of prayers and have abandoned the mujtahids and the rest of the nation. These people and their future generations are on their way out In my humble opinion. To keep it simple. And its not unusual. It has been going on since many centuries. Sects form then disappear. Whoever leaves the Ahl al Bayt (عليه السلام) and their commands meets that same fate.

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On 8/7/2019 at 3:55 PM, Noor Taleb said:

Hey guys 

I wanted to share and bring to your attention that so many Shias exaggerate about 'women'

625287616_download(14).jpeg.14745e092a3cf7e44ef42e0c8ce147a9.jpeg

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