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In the Name of God بسم الله
starlight

Facing threats

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1 hour ago, Guest Valor said:

Wait what? Why would cat hairs on clothes make the prayer void? It's not like we're wearing clothes made of cat hair! 

 

Sistani says only as obligatory precaution does it make salah void, if there are more than 3 hairs. However, earlier Q and A's he said prayer is still valid. 

 

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19 hours ago, Propaganda_of_the_Deed said:

Furthermore any references to Abu Sufian allegedly owning a feline?

Shaheed -e- Kufa. It has solid references in it. But I can see you just want to win this "debate" out of your love for cats. :woot: I have kept cats for years. I am a cat person. But I do not let bias affect my judgement. Also I am your older brother and a sincere well wisher. I could debate this more but I won't. I will end by quoting Imam Ja'far's (عليه السلام) hadith: "Do not make your neck a bridge for people to walk over by handing out judgements (fatawa) on religious matters". You don't want people holding you responsible on judgement day for cat hair on their clothes and your making it seem okay. Why do so brother? If you are upset about this new information on your favorite animal, let this be a motive to find out the truth instead of resisting.

Edited by Darth Vader

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6 minutes ago, Darth Vader said:

Shaheed -e- Kufa. It has solid references in it. 

Seeing as you are the one who has read it or has access to it, feel free to show these "solid references", unless you are talking about a series.

You still have not said what Islamic implications or relevance there are if any, of Abu Sufyan owning a cat. I'm sure he did a lot of mundane, everyday things.

9 minutes ago, Darth Vader said:

But I do not let bias affect my judgement. Also I am your older brother and a sincere well wisher. resisting.

And what judgement is this? That it is wrong to own cats? Earlier you misunderstood the ruling of cat hair on clothes and wrongfully claimed cat hair is najis. Unless you are some uncle, you can't assume you are my older brother if I've not told you my age lol.

 

11 minutes ago, Darth Vader said:

If you are upset about this new information on your favorite animal, let this be a motive to find out the truth instead of resisting.

The only "new" info you have provided is this allegation of Abu Sufyan owning a cat from some references you have not quoted. Abu Sufyan owning a cat or owning collecting stamps for example has nothing to do with me nor impacts my religion.

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6 minutes ago, Propaganda_of_the_Deed said:

Abu Sufyan owning a cat or owning collecting stamps for example has nothing to do with me nor impacts my religion.

LOL then why are you stoked about that anyway? :grin:

Btw, did you know cats can give you a brain parasite that may control or affect you?

 

Quote

 

By New Scientist staff and Press Association

An analysis of students in the US has found that those who have a certain type of brain parasite are more likely to be majoring in business studies.

Toxoplasma gondii is a protozoan parasite carried by cats. It can infect people through contact with cat faeces, poorly cooked meat, or contaminated water, and as many as one-third of the world’s population may be infected. The parasite doesn’t make us feel sick, but it forms cysts in the brain where it can remain for the rest of a person’s life. Some studies have linked infection with the parasite to slower reaction times, schizophrenia, bipolar disorder, suicidal behaviour, and explosive anger.

Now an assessment of almost 1300 US students has found that those who had been exposed to the parasite were 1.7 times more likely to be majoring in business. In particular, they were more likely to be focusing on management and entrepreneurship than other business-related areas.

The study also found that professionals attending business events were almost twice as likely to have started their own business if they were T. gondii positive, and that countries with a higher prevalence of T. gondii infection show more entrepreneurial activity.

The team behind the study say their data suggests that the parasite may be involved in reducing a person’s fear of failure and high-risk, high-reward ventures. Rodents infected with T. gondii are known to become less fearful of encountering cats.

 

 

Ref: https://www.newscientist.com/article/2175045-business-students-more-likely-to-have-a-brain-parasite-spread-by-cats/

Edited by Darth Vader

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9 minutes ago, Darth Vader said:

LOL then why are you stoked about that anyway? :grin:

Because you are spreading misinformation either out of ignorance or intentionally. You can't be quoting Imam Sadiq (عليه السلام) to me about dishing out fatwas and then be surprised that I'm calling you out on wrongfully saying cat hair is najis.

As you should know, an obligatory precaution is not an outright fatwa.

Sistani:

4Question: Does cat hair affect ones prayers?

Answer: If there is a few cat hairs (one to three) on a person's body or cloth, his prayer is in order but if there are more than that, his prayer becomes void, as an obligatory precaution.

 

Sayid Hakeem:

Is it permissible to keep a cat as a pet? Is their hair najis?

Answer :

It is permissible to keep a cat as a pet and its hair is not najis. But if cat hair sticks to one’s clothes his prayer is invalid as an obligatory precaution.

Edited by Propaganda_of_the_Deed

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7 minutes ago, Propaganda_of_the_Deed said:

Sistani:

4Question: Does cat hair affect ones prayers?

Answer: If there is a few cat hairs (one to three) on a person's body or cloth, his prayer is in order but if there are more than that, his prayer becomes void, as an obligatory precaution.

Thanks for proving me right. "Obligatory precaution" means it is compulsory (wajib) to take precaution about this. Its serious. He touched this issue of cat hair being najis because there is reason behind it. Why risk having your prayers void over .... cats of all things?

A few cat hair means you went to a house with a cat or similarly somehow got cat hair on your clothes. When you own a cat as a pet you have cat hair everywhere and I don't know about you but I can not count to make sure each time that there are less than three on my clothes.

Edited by Darth Vader

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6 minutes ago, Darth Vader said:

Thanks for proving me right. Terms like "obligatory precaution" that they use do not mean what they sound like. Its serious. He touched this issue of cat hair being najis because there is reason behind it. Why risk having your prayers void over .... cats of all things?

You are misunderstanding again.

Sayid Sistani has not stated cat hair is najis, he even permits 1 to 3 cat hairs (if it was najis like dog hair why would he allow a few?).

I am not saying obligatory precautions should be taken lightly, but it is different to saying sonething is absolutely forbidden, like Sistani on Chess for example.

I have also shown you sayid Hakeem stating explicitly that cat hair is not najis, yet you are still arguing. Please put your ego aside on this issue.

 

Sistani again. Where does he say cat hair is najis?

1Question: Can I keep a cat, hamster, and rabbit in my house?

Answer: There is no problem in it,
Note: The body and the salive of the cat, rabbit, and hamster is ritually pure (Tahir), yet its urine, feaces, and blood are Najis
Edited by Propaganda_of_the_Deed

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As I have merely clarified before that I am not prepared to sacrifice my prayers for cats. You have showed Sistani's ruling yourself. There is no ego involved. I for one do not find cats worth this huge, "game changer" sort of a risk. You are free to take it. I don't care.

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On 8/3/2019 at 5:05 AM, starlight said:

Salam everyone, 

I am being forced against my will, coerced, threatened, pressurised and now finally blackmailed into buying a very cute, cuddly but outrageously expensive, (according to my standards) white kitten.

I have tried to hold up as long as I could but I am tired of the daily bugging. I don't want animals inside the house because I want to keep the whole house clean and I don't want anyone stepping with their dirty little paws into my namaz area!!! Nor do I enjoy four legged creatures suddenly jumping up on me from nowhere. 

Help friends! Tell me the meanest parental tactics you can know of to save myself from the furry little calamity about to invade my peaceful life.

My mom wanted cats so we got them. And my dad hates cats and my mom wanted to return them, but my dad fell in love with them, so we are stuck. When I read namaz they plot down on the prayer rug and it’s so annoying lol

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Just now, Darth Vader said:

As I have merely clarified before that I am not prepared to sacrifice my prayers for cats. You have showed Sistani's ruling yourself. There is no ego involved. I for one do not find cats worth this huge, "game changer" sort of a risk. You are free to take it. I don't care.

That is fine brother (or am I to say uncle?) I myself try to take extra care in removing cat hair and usually change clothes and wear a thobe (mustahab) for salah.

I was merely trying to show you that our maraji do not consider cat hair najis, and that is not the reason behind it on clothes and making salah void and they also permit us keeping them as pets. Abu Sufyan owning one or not.

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3 minutes ago, Propaganda_of_the_Deed said:

I was merely trying to show you that our maraji do not consider cat hair najis

The ones I follow clearly do.

sfdsfdsf.png.88698c6eafd790c964406d3eff3a58d2.png

Also for scientific reasons, I can not risk the brain parasite given by cats affecting and harming my judgement or that of my children. Its hair are hazardous for health if breathed or ingested.

Sorry, though.

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8 hours ago, Darth Vader said:

The ones I follow clearly do.

Again going back to my point. Cat hair on clothes ruling is due to us not wearing the skin/fur of predatory or animals not slaughtered in halal.

Sayid Khameni is not stating cat hair is najis. No one has said this.

But if he is your marja then of course you must follow.

This is from his office emailed as a reply to a user:

Quote

 There is no objection in keeping cats in one's house but it is impermissible to pray while cat's hair is on one's clothes or body. This ruling includes the hair of those Islamically inedible animals except those animals for which exception is mentioned in Islamic law. Saliva of cats is taahir (pure) but it is impermissible to pray with it.

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22 minutes ago, Propaganda_of_the_Deed said:

Only one of the 

he's not a cat, when one goes up the other should go down IA.

In the wildlife documentaries they narrate that cats notoriously hate water...

Be it swimming to cool off

 1340788163_images(85).jpeg.8ccc088e5514bb5b6a3af74ef88f003b.jpeg

Or bathing to maintain cleanliness520107900_images(87).jpeg.2181135ea8f905371a3c889aafba7310.jpeg

Or to quench a thirst.1873507363_images(86).jpeg.541077e8dbbb7c00dfa466e773d54987.jpeg

 

images (84).jpeg

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3 minutes ago, Darth Vader said:

Their mere presence invalidates the prayer. What else are they called if not najis?

Predatory animals which are haram to consume or to wear their fur/skin (hence why we can't have it on clothes in salah).

In addition to this, dogs and swine are najis.

Cats are tahir.

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Cats raised by human beings do not necessarily become mouse hunters. All they have to do is annoy you till you feed them to their fullest. Then they will sleep. If your lap is empty they will sleep in it. They are practically useless but what makes them worse is their begging for food or rather their choice food will get on your nerves as they will ask for it every few hours and will reject things they do not like.

I have already linked scientific research about the brain parasite they carry.

Then if you look at their life cycles, the males will kill its male offspring, same as other cats do. They will mercilessly eat baby birds, spoil your food, misbehave all the time, be disloyal, break things jumping around, liable to poo on your new bedding, drag partly decayed small animal corpses to you (science says they do it so you can also feed but meh) and all sorts of nuisance.

I do not know the reason why a few individuals are crazy about them. Only because they look "cute". Maybe cats offer a lesson of life that especially cute things can become your worst headaches. Or at least its certainly true in case of cats.

Edited by Darth Vader

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8 minutes ago, Darth Vader said:

This is also why they are such filthy animals.

Cats groom themselves with constant regular licking, and this stops skin oils from building up on their fur. As a result a cat’s coat is fluffier and less waterproof than a dog’s, so they get colder and their fur feels heavier if they get wet. https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.sciencefocus.com/nature/why-do-cats-hate-water/amp/

It's true; cats are one of the cleanest animals on the Earth. It's not because they are self-consumed and vain, though. In the same way chameleons try to blend in with their environment, cats keep themselves clean to eliminate all smell so they are "invisible" to potential predators. It's all about survival!

Through countless years of evolution, a cat's predisposition towards grooming has even emerged through certain body parts. 

  • The Tongue- The most important tool a cat has is the tongue. Cats' tongues are rough and barbed, which helps them to scrape their fur of any nasty debris.
  • The Forepaw- The padded part of a cat's paw acts as a washcloth for a cat. This smooth, padded surface becomes wet with saliva and allows the cat to wash over the rest of his body. 
  • The Tongue- The most important tool a cat has is the tongue. Cats' tongues are rough and barbed, which helps them to scrape their fur of any nasty debris.
  • The Forepaw- The padded part of a cat's paw acts as a washcloth for a cat. This smooth, padded surface becomes wet with saliva and allows the cat to wash over the rest of his body.
  • The Teeth- For tougher problems, cats use their teeth to rustle out foreign debris. Between these three tools, cats are fully equipped to keep themselves clean.

https://www.petstreetmall.com/articles/why-do-cats-lick-themselves-so-much.aspx

lickcat.jpg.9a632ee4b034ddb34d29bc4fd6a49ca5.jpg

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1 minute ago, Mzwakhe said:

Cats groom themselves with constant regular licking, and this stops skin oils from building up on their fur. As a result a cat’s coat is fluffier and less waterproof than a dog’s, so they get colder and their fur feels heavier if they get wet. https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.sciencefocus.com/nature/why-do-cats-hate-water/amp/

It's true; cats are one of the cleanest animals on the Earth. It's not because they are self-consumed and vain, though. In the same way chameleons try to blend in with their environment, cats keep themselves clean to eliminate all smell so they are "invisible" to potential predators. It's all about survival!

Through countless years of evolution, a cat's predisposition towards grooming has even emerged through certain body parts. 

  • The Tongue- The most important tool a cat has is the tongue. Cats' tongues are rough and barbed, which helps them to scrape their fur of any nasty debris.
  • The Forepaw- The padded part of a cat's paw acts as a washcloth for a cat. This smooth, padded surface becomes wet with saliva and allows the cat to wash over the rest of his body. 
  • The Tongue- The most important tool a cat has is the tongue. Cats' tongues are rough and barbed, which helps them to scrape their fur of any nasty debris.
  • The Forepaw- The padded part of a cat's paw acts as a washcloth for a cat. This smooth, padded surface becomes wet with saliva and allows the cat to wash over the rest of his body.
  • The Teeth- For tougher problems, cats use their teeth to rustle out foreign debris. Between these three tools, cats are fully equipped to keep themselves clean.

https://www.petstreetmall.com/articles/why-do-cats-lick-themselves-so-much.aspx

lickcat.jpg.9a632ee4b034ddb34d29bc4fd6a49ca5.jpg

Their saliva is also najis.

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44 minutes ago, Isaam said:

My mom wanted cats so we got them. And my dad hates cats and my mom wanted to return them, but my dad fell in love with them, so we are stuck. When I read namaz they plot down on the prayer rug and it’s so annoying lol

I would do the wise thing in your place, get rid of it in secret and do the whole family a big favor. One way is to add engine coolant in its food.

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9 minutes ago, Darth Vader said:

I would do the wise thing in your place, get rid of it in secret and do the whole family a big favor. One way is to add engine coolant in its food.

engine coolant ...

poooop.jpg.10fbeef4769cfd1241b19022d212dad1.jpg

Edited by Noor Taleb

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23 minutes ago, Propaganda_of_the_Deed said:

 

Seeing as you are fond of scientific studies, might one to look up the links between pyschopaths and animal cruelty. 

Its called self preservation, my friend. Speaking of which:

Quote

 

An analysis of students in the US has found that those who have a certain type of brain parasite are more likely to be majoring in business studies.

Toxoplasma gondii is a protozoan parasite carried by cats. It can infect people through contact with cat faeces, poorly cooked meat, or contaminated water, and as many as one-third of the world’s population may be infected. The parasite doesn’t make us feel sick, but it forms cysts in the brain where it can remain for the rest of a person’s life. Some studies have linked infection with the parasite to slower reaction times, schizophrenia, bipolar disorder, suicidal behaviour, and explosive anger.

Now an assessment of almost 1300 US students has found that those who had been exposed to the parasite were 1.7 times more likely to be majoring in business. In particular, they were more likely to be focusing on management and entrepreneurship than other business-related areas.

The study also found that professionals attending business events were almost twice as likely to have started their own business if they were T. gondii positive, and that countries with a higher prevalence of T. gondii infection show more entrepreneurial activity.

The team behind the study say their data suggests that the parasite may be involved in reducing a person’s fear of failure and high-risk, high-reward ventures. Rodents infected with T. gondii are known to become less fearful of encountering cats.

Journal reference: Proceedings of the Royal Society B, DOI: 10.1098/rspb.2018.0822

 

I know me but respectfully I am doubting the soundness of your faculty of reason and pray for it. Tell me you have a cat in your house.

When something is so dangerous to your health, like a poisonous snake or a cat carrying that brain parasite that has such a huge chance to affect you and give you those horrible diseases, it is only prudent to remove such creatures from your immediate surroundings and those of your loved ones. Its only maths.

Edited by Darth Vader

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4 minutes ago, Propaganda_of_the_Deed said:

Not cowardly poison its food. 

What's wrong with that? We all poison so many insects and other vermin most of them aren't as dangerous. Why should cats be an exception?

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Just now, Darth Vader said:

What's wrong with that? We all poison so many insects and other vermin most of them aren't as dangerous. Why should cats be an exception?

We poison insects because they infest our homes so its a compulsion not a choice , so indeed cats are an exception.

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1 hour ago, Darth Vader said:

Maybe cats offer a lesson of life that especially cute things can become your worst headaches Or at least its certainly true in case of women

Fixed !! :hahaha:

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